Fire Emblem Heroes - New Heroes (A New Future)

[Sunwoo]

I'm not exactly blaming cuboon for Edelgard's boobs. I'm just wondering if he may have exaggerated her assets. His last work was f!Byleth+Rhea and ... I mean, even if both of those ladies are naturally busty f!Byleth at least was super off-putting. Something just didn't quite feel right about her proportions. And I know I'm not the only person who felt that way. So ... it's totally possible to have a character with a big bust, and exaggerate it more than usual anyway.

HACCAN's Legendary Edelgard also has a somewhat big chest, yes, but the exact shape and curves of her bust are not quite as accentuated and form-fitting as in Brave Edelgard's and so it sticks out less when you first look at it.

[Integrity]

i'm absolutely blaming cuboon, dude tweets about boobs on the regular and strapped big old bolt-ons to rhea and byleth and igrene

 

like you can't say this isn't very likely directly the fault of chris 'milk truk come in' cuboon

 

[Xenomata]

Heh, this has been and probably will continue to be an entertaining read for me. Personal opinion, whatever, there's only like one FEH artist I don't like, and that's whoever did Rhajat and Spring Loki.
Though I have to ask... how did the topic of breast armor effectiveness even get brought up? I thought we were talking about who the best freebie pick was?

[Anacybele]

10 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

whoever did Rhajat and Spring Loki.

That would be the art director for Awakening and Fates. I never remember his name. But that explains a lot, doesn't it? Awakening and Fates generally have the worst character and outfit designs imo.

[Othin]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not to mention that sometimes, the headgear really completes the set, like these:

Looking fitting with the rest of the outfit is really significant, yeah.

[Xenomata]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That would be the art director for Awakening and Fates. I never remember his name. But that explains a lot, doesn't it? Awakening and Fates generally have the worst character and outfit designs imo.

At least compared to more recent games where A. you can actually tell what everyone looks like in-game because it's not a pixely mess and characters aren't limited to headshots, and B. the design of most characters and armor aren't limited to either artbooks or an old trading card game where it turns out most armor looks pretty average.

I suppose Awakening was good for the time, and some designs still stick out to me to this day (I wouldn't still like Nowi and Nah if they didn't age well for instance (heheh)), but Fates almost immediately trumped it in almost every artistic regard, and now I don't really remember some art choices from Awakening all that well... at least until they return to Heroes.

[vikingsfan92]

 

[Mercakete]

Heh. I mean, it was delivered nicely, but in the end, it kind of "join our house!" all over again.

[Ice Dragon]

@bottlegnomes I think this argument is just going to be stuck at me arguing that you're underestimating how good armor is at distributing force and overestimating the weight of weapons and you arguing that I'm underestimating how heavy hits from weapons are, and we're probably not going to get further unless we actually have someone in a suit of armor get whacked, so this is probably going to be my final argument, my overall main points distilled to their core (not just those in response to your most recent rebuttal), unless your response has something I find egregiously inaccurate.

I do not think the structural integrity of the armor is at all compromised with the extra curves. Weapons had to be specifically designed to breach plate armor because other weapons simply couldn't. Such is the nature of arms races. Compared to amount of material needed for a full set of armor, the amount of material needed to add the boobs is insignificant. While there would certainly be a need for greater crafting skill to make the armor competently, demand will naturally generate supply if this sort of armor is in the norm.

While armor is certainly intended to deflect force away from the wearer, it's still unavoidable that some attacks will not be fully deflected as no armor is convex everywhere. While having one more point where it is more likely an attack will not be fully deflected is certainly not optimal, it is also not going to compromise the armor's utility. I believe your concerns that getting hit in the wrong way is going to get you killed is completely overblown. Even knocking an armored knight down to the ground would be difficult. Armor is relatively evenly distributed across the body, meaning the wearer would be no more off balance than if they had no armor and significantly more agile than typically depicted, and a full suit of plate armor is heavy, coming in at 40-50 pounds, meaning an attack would need more force just to push that amount of weight around. The historical plate-armored knight was nearly invincible if you didn't have a weapon designed to breach the armor.

The idea that boob plate is going to get you killed or even put you at a significant disadvantage just by virtue of being boob plate is absurd. Boob plate can be well or poorly designed to be functional just like any other armor can be, and even then, historical armor has shown that you can get away with trading small amounts of functionality for the purpose of fashion.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[Silver Star]

The reason why boob plates are impractical is because no woman would ever actually need them. I’m guessing the reason they are used in character designs is because the artists  were trying to show that the women’s breasts were being supported and/or protected, however that’s what a bra is for... Also women don’t need two separate pockets for their breasts to fit into in regular clothes (like shirts) so the same would be true for armor.

The only reason I can think of for women ever needing them would be if they weren’t wearing anything under their armor at all which seems very unlikely. 

As it stands they’re a waste of resources to make as you would just end up having two hollow lumps of metal sitting on your chest which seems like it would be heavy and distracting... 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Silver Star

[Book Bro]

6 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

 

Lysithea Golden Route DLC when?

[Mercakete]

26 minutes ago, Silver Star said:

The reason why boob plates are impractical is simple: no woman would ever actually need them. I’m guessing the reason they are used in character designs is because the artists  were trying to show that the women’s breasts were being supported and/or protected, however that’s what a bra is for... Also women don’t need two separate pockets for their breasts to fit into in regular clothes (like shirts) so the same would be true for armor.

The only reason I can think of for women ever needing them would be if they weren’t wearing anything under their armor at all which seems very unlikely. 

As it stands they’re a waste of resources to make as you would just end up having two hollow lumps of metal sitting on your chest which seems like it would be heavy and distracting... 

Actually, the closer armor fits to your body, the lighter it is since it relies on how your skeletal structure is designed to carry weight. Other than that, sometimes bras don't work for women with particularly heavy chests. They wear out way too fast to continue supporting your weight and cause sores on your sides. For what women fit into this category, such a style of armor may be a relief since it holds its shape (and thus, its contents) without wearing out due to gravity continuously pulling on those inconvenient bags of fat. Especially for things involving a lot of movement (like running, riding, or fighting) which can jar your sternum. (All of this, by the way, is me speaking from experience. Wish I had something like this for health reasons, especially since I'd rather not go through surgery if I can help it.)

So, saying "no woman would ever actually need them" is saying something too general too soon.

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, Silver Star said:

The reason why boob plates are impractical is simple: no woman would ever actually need them. I’m guessing the reason they are used in character designs is because the artists  were trying to show that the women’s breasts were being supported and/or protected, however that’s what a bra is for... Also women don’t need two separate pockets for their breasts to fit into in regular clothes (like shirts) so the same would be true for armor.

The only reason I can think of for women ever needing them would be if they weren’t wearing anything under their armor at all which seems very unlikely. 

As it stands they’re a waste of resources to make as you would just end up having two hollow lumps of metal sitting on your chest which seems like it would be heavy and distracting... 

Codpieces were not practical, but it was still put on battlefield armor anyways, so it was not limited to just ceremonial armor. Even regular civilian dudes who did not wear armor wore dong armor. Codpieces were not practical in the sense in that they do not serve a practical function, but they were not impractical in terms of being super cumbersome or uncomfortable. Codpieces were not worn for a practical reason, they were worn as a fashion statement.

As a dude, I imagine boob plates to be similar to codpieces in that regard. They do not serve a practical function, but they do serve as a fashion statement. Muscle cuirass also exist, which is basically man-boob armor. ANF!Edelgard's armor is reminiscent of that. If ANF!Edelgard's boob plate was the size of Camilla's assets, then yeah, I agree practicality would be an issue then. However, her boob plate is not huge and it looks pretty reasonable.

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

 

They're really cashing in on the 3H clean sweep, huh?

7 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Heh. I mean, it was delivered nicely, but in the end, it kind of "join our house!" all over again.

Yeah, this is what upsets me too. Especially after the in-game notification made it sound like Lysithea was trying to stop the three of them fighting. Now that would have been interesting to see, though I suppose the Forging Bonds could still be about that. Hopefully.

[bottlegnomes]

@Ice Dragon There was definitely some miscommunication. I can see how you might have gotten it, but I was never arguing it was going to get you killed. I was arguing that you're underestimating the unpleasantness of getting hit even if there is something protecting you and that something that increases the likelihood of a blow landing, even somewhat, versus an equally protective outfit that doesn't isn't optimal design. I still stand by that breast armor, or any stylized armor, lessens the effectiveness in terms of deflecting blows. Again, getting hit isn't fun even if it isn't fatal or even particularly harmful—I know from experience—and it's something that it seems like people forget in these kinds of discussions. Like your getting knocked down example. From personal experience, even when you're expecting the hit and prep yourself for it, it's not fun. When it surprises you, it really fucking sucks.

Edited August 17, 2020 by bottlegnomes

[SuperNova125]

Sharena's introductions got updated and have the CYL units now. Dimitri's introduction has to be my favourite as it described his story really well. Also Lysethia's mention of Edelgard to the close allies section was awesome as their support is one of my favourites in the entire game. Boob plate talk aside, Edelgard's art is stunningly beautiful. Her damaged art is my favourite in all of Feh especially as her hair is not in her crown thing (didn't expect that art from the guy who drew summer Rhea and Byleth). Claude's art is also amazing, think it was drawn by Wada Sachico so of course it's great. Spent too much time analysing the introductions. Really looking forward their conversations in FB. 

Gonna make a bold prediction and say that Jorge will be one of the strongest grails in the game and will cause terror to everyone in AR. 

[Michelaar]

15 hours ago, Anacybele said:

That would be the art director for Awakening and Fates. I never remember his name. But that explains a lot, doesn't it? Awakening and Fates generally have the worst character and outfit designs imo.

That is simply hogwash. Rhajat and Spring Loki were not drawn by Yusuke Kozaki, Awakening/Fates's art director. You can simply not like his work but it would be great if you could actually take 2 seconds to do a google search on who actually drew them and not blacken someone's name over misinformation.

 

On the Edelgard subject, I barely even noticed the enlarged boobs on Edie until people pointed it out and even then its really not extreme imo. Sounds to me people are overreacting just a bit.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Michelaar

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

On the Edelgard subject, I barely even noticed the enlarged boobs on Edie until people pointed it out and even then its really not extreme imo. Sounds to me people are overreacting just a bit.

This. 

 

On another subject, do we know what Jorge's prf does yet?

[bottlegnomes]

@Mercakete Completely honest question since you'd know better than I would. Would the cups being metal cause any sort of chafing or bruising as opposed to a traditional bra? My understanding is that they're cloth because it's reasonably inexpensive, but also because it moves with you and allows for some flexibility. Maybe I'm drastically overthinking this.

[Yexin]

39 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

Gonna make a bold prediction and say that Jorge will be one of the strongest grails in the game and will cause terror to everyone in AR. 

god i hope so, that would be hilarious

38 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Rhajat and Spring Loki were done by two different people

no, Rhajat and Spring Loki are both drawn by Kusakihara Toshiyuki
i guess there's another one who should take 2 seconds to do some fact-checking

35 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

On another subject, do we know what Jorge's prf does yet?

sadly we don't: i can't wait for the datamine and find it out
i have the feeling that it won't be anything outstanding, but as long as it's decent, i'll be fine with it

Edited August 17, 2020 by Yexin

[Othin]

31 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

On another subject, do we know what Jorge's prf does yet?

Not yet. We should find out from the datamine tonight. 

He's probably my next grail project, so I'm really curious what it'll do.

[Michelaar]

6 minutes ago, Yexin said:

god i hope so, that would be hilarious

no, Rhajat and Spring Loki are both drawn by Kusakihara Toshiyuki
i guess there's another one who should take 2 seconds to do some fact-checking

sadly we don't: i can't wait for the datamine and find it out
i have the feeling that it won't be anything outstanding, but as long as it's decent, i'll be fine with it

You're right, I was mistaken, I apologize. Luckily it doesnt change my argument at all, as it still isnt Yusuke Kozaki.

[Yexin]

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

You're right, I was mistaken, I apologize. Luckily it doesnt change my argument at all, as it still isnt Yusuke Kozaki.

well yes, he isn't Kozaki, but at the same time Kozaki isn't Awakening and Fates' art director, who's once again Kusakihara Toshiyuki

Kozaki was Awakening and Fates's character designer, not their art director: they're two very different roles

Edited August 17, 2020 by Yexin

[Humanoid]

15 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

You're right, I was mistaken, I apologize. Luckily it doesnt change my argument at all, as it still isnt Yusuke Kozaki.

He's the Art Director, as opposed to the artist, for Awakening and Fates. This is why Ana is talking about the character and outfit designs rather than the actual art.

Source

 

Interestingly he was promoted to lead designer for the last two games, huh. Well, better he use his talents there instead of drawing perhaps. A real-life application of the Dilbert Principle. 😛

Edited August 17, 2020 by Humanoid

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, SuperNova125 said:

 

Gonna make a bold prediction and say that Jorge will be one of the strongest grails in the game and will cause terror to everyone in AR. 

There;s a thread for that

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Jotari