Preparing for Crimson Flower run: Any tips?

[Emmy]

Hellooooo! I have 6 chapters until i'm finished with VW, so this won't happen for up to a month, but i'm planning on starting a CF NG+ run, i think i know who i am going to use on my roster of buddies, but if there are any tips exclusive to crimson flower (please no/very little spoilers)

Roster:

• Byleth - Assassin | Assasin stuff
• Edelgard - Emperor | Reason, Axe, Heavy Armor
• Lysithea - Gremory | Reason, faith so i can make her a gremory.
• Petra - ??? | Lance, Flying
• Dorothea - Dancer | Sword, Reason
• Mercedes - Bishop | ???
• Yuri - Trickster | ???
• Constance - Dark Flier? | ???
• Hapi - Valkyrie? |???
• Anna - War Cleric | Axe, Faith
• Hubert - Dark something | ???
• Bernadetta - Bow Knight | ???
• Leonie - Horse something | ???

 

Character End Relationships

• Byleth + Edelgard
• Lysithea + Lynhardt
• Petra + Dorothea
• Yuri + Bernadetta
• Hapi + Constance
• Ferdinand + Hubert
• Leonie
• Jeritza + Mercedes

 

Anyhow, any tips?

Edited August 20, 2020 by Emmy

[DarkSage861]

don't die 

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know if you know this already, but... To access it, you need to go with Edelgard during the month chapter 11 takes place in (this requires a C+ support at least). Note the blurb that shows up during the decision. This will show up again after the battle for that month. Also, don't bother investing in Reason for Edelgard.

[SumG]

The one thing I would caution you about is that since you have fewer chapters in the story, you have less time to master classes and weapon proficiency.  It makes class paths that are normally fine (if slightly suboptimal) more challenging.  You may want to try more easy to obtain class progressions in these cases.

For example, you have Petra as a Falcon Knight.  However, this has two problems.  First, Petra does not have a boon in lances, so you might be slow to get into Falcon Knight itself.  Second, the Pegasus Knight->Falcon Knight progression does not have a good stop in the Advanced tier of class, and typically you want to get at least one class certification in that tier at level 20 (to take advantage of the stat bonuses).  These will make it almost impossible to get to S/S+ lance proficiency for Petra.  I think Petra would be much better off in Wyvern Lord, to take advantage of her axe boon and easier class progression.

I've long held that Enlightened One is a trap class for Byleth, particularly on Maddening.  Byleth's speed growth is OK, but not spectacular.  On Maddening, you really need to put them in a class with a speed bonus if you want them to usable by the endgame (my favorites are either Assassin or Falcon Knight).  Byleth also really benefits from Darting Blow, so consider playing a F!Byleth if you aren't already.

Trickster just isn't very good on Maddening.  It lacks a weapon-faire class ability and does not provide any strength or magic bonus.  It leaves you with a unit that just can't hit hard enough.  Yuri works pretty well as an assassin, though.

I would not bother with Anna.  Her stats are bad, and War Monk is not a good class either.  Just scrap the whole thing.

Leonie makes a fantastic Falcon Knight, though on CF the class progression might be too ambitious, particularly since you can't get her B support until after Chapter 8 for easy recruitment (it's locked until then for plot reasons).  If you plan on using her, you may need to rush lances to recruit her earlier.  But Paladin feels like a waste of her amazing speed growth.

[Emmy]

23 minutes ago, SumG said:

I've long held that Enlightened One is a trap class for Byleth, particularly on Maddening.  Byleth's speed growth is OK, but not spectacular.  On Maddening, you really need to put them in a class with a speed bonus if you want them to usable by the endgame (my favorites are either Assassin or Falcon Knight).  Byleth also really benefits from Darting Blow, so consider playing a F!Byleth if you aren't already.

Trickster just isn't very good on Maddening.  It lacks a weapon-faire class ability and does not provide any strength or magic bonus.  It leaves you with a unit that just can't hit hard enough.  Yuri works pretty well as an assassin, though.

I would not bother with Anna.  Her stats are bad, and War Monk is not a good class either.  Just scrap the whole thing.

 

I am def going with assassin for byleth

But i am gonna keep trickster because I'm not playing on maddening, or even hard.

And i've heard Anna is garbage but i just want Anna because i like her as a character.

[Anathaco]

The Emperor class unfortunately cannot use Reason at all, so if you want Edelgard to use magic I'd suggest Dark Knight, or even Dark Flier sounds pretty fun. If you just wanted her to get into the Emperor class then just don't train her in reason. It also may be worth replacing her heavy armour training with authority unless you really want the weight -3 skill or you want her as an armour knight before she hits Emperor. Even if you don't touch heavy armour at all she'll still be able to use Emperor.

The DLC classes will only require 2 weapon ranks each, so you can just train in those 2 for the DLC characters you're using and it should be fine.

Hubert works well as a Dark Knight- train his lances and Reason at the beginning and then shift from lances to Riding once it hits C, maybe?

Bernadetta works well as a Bow Knight, though I'd suggest training her lance rank to C+ instead of stopping at C. She learns a powerful combat art that is also just insanely fun to use.

Also, press F for Leonie being forever alone, haha. Good luck with the run!

[Dandy Druid]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:05 AM, Emmy said:

Hellooooo! I have 6 chapters until i'm finished with VW, so this won't happen for up to a month, but i'm planning on starting a CF NG+ run, i think i know who i am going to use on my roster of buddies, but if there are any tips exclusive to crimson flower (please no/very little spoilers)

Roster:

• Byleth - Assassin | Assasin stuff
• Edelgard - Emperor | Reason, Axe, Heavy Armor
• Lysithea - Gremory | Reason, faith so i can make her a gremory.
• Petra - ??? | Lance, Flying
• Dorothea - Dancer | Sword, Reason
• Mercedes - Bishop | ???
• Yuri - Trickster | ???
• Constance - Dark Flier? | ???
• Hapi - Valkyrie? |???
• Anna - War Cleric | Axe, Faith
• Hubert - Dark something | ???
• Bernadetta - Bow Knight | ???
• Leonie - Horse something | ???

1. Edelgard won't need reason for Emperor. If you want a magical Edelgard, Valkyrie, Dark Knight, and Dark Flier are the way to go imo.
2. With those skills in mind, Petra will most likely become a Falcon Knight, which is a great class for her.
3. Hubert will most likely end up as a Dark Knight, or at least, I hope he does. Don't spend too much time on Dark Bishop.
4. Leonie is good at everything. For horse-based classes, Paladin or Bow Knight will be your  best endgame options.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Dandy Druid
spelling error

[haarhaarhaar]

2 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Don't spell too much time on Dark Bishop.

Seconded, its mastery is useless for Hubert, and Hubert's mag stat is good enough not to need it. If you're looking for an advanced class to go through, do Paladin.

[vanguard333]

19 hours ago, Emmy said:

Roster:

• Byleth - Assassin | Assasin stuff
• Edelgard - Emperor | Reason, Axe, Heavy Armor
• Lysithea - Gremory | Reason, faith so i can make her a gremory.
• Petra - ??? | Lance, Flying
• Dorothea - Dancer | Sword, Reason
• Mercedes - Bishop | ???
• Yuri - Trickster | ???
• Constance - Dark Flier? | ???
• Hapi - Valkyrie? |???
• Anna - War Cleric | Axe, Faith
• Hubert - Dark something | ???
• Bernadetta - Bow Knight | ???
• Leonie - Horse something | ???

I know I'm not the first person to say this, but Edelgard can't use reason magic as Emperor.

It's a good idea to make sure characters that aren't bad at authority have good authority so they can use stronger battalions. Byleth, Edelgard, Hubert, Lysithea, Yuri and Constance are all proficient in authority.

Leonie would probably be best as a bow knight. Cavalry classes cut speed growth, so it would be best to train her through the archer line, then make her a Bow Knight as her last promotion. I know you plan on making Bernadetta a bow knight, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have two bow knights since bows are extremely useful in this game. I had two bow knights in my first Crimson Flower playthrough (Bernadetta and Ashe in my case), and since a lot of later chapters encourage the player to split up their units into multiple groups, having a bow knight in each group is very useful. 

[Barren]

20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I know I'm not the first person to say this, but Edelgard can't use reason magic as Emperor.

It's a good idea to make sure characters that aren't bad at authority have good authority so they can use stronger battalions. Byleth, Edelgard, Hubert, Lysithea, Yuri and Constance are all proficient in authority.

Leonie would probably be best as a bow knight. Cavalry classes cut speed growth, so it would be best to train her through the archer line, then make her a Bow Knight as her last promotion. I know you plan on making Bernadetta a bow knight, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have two bow knights since bows are extremely useful in this game. I had two bow knights in my first Crimson Flower playthrough (Bernadetta and Ashe in my case), and since a lot of later chapters encourage the player to split up their units into multiple groups, having a bow knight in each group is very useful. 

Unless this person is thinking of using fiendish blow + Bolt axe/Lightning Axe CA Edelgard. In which case I can concur. Both every one have already said that emperor can't use magic. So if you're going to train Edelgard in reason @Emmy and still keep her as emperor then that would be the way to go. Otherwise, and I am going to sound like a broken record but Valkyrie, Dark Flier or Dark Knight are the better magical class options for Edelgard. She would also have accuracy issues so I think getting uncanny blow from valkyrie may be the best way to go

As far as the rest of the roster for you:

Lysithea as a Gremory is very good so I would go with that

Petra as a Falcon Knight may seem feasible is you want a dodge tank, but honestly given her axe boon, she would be better off as a wyvern lord. She really needs more strength rather than more speed since 60% is already high enough for her. If you're concerned with her hit rate, there is accuracy ring

Dorothea as a dancer is fine as well. Just be sure to also train her in faith magic so she can learn physic. The more physic users you have the better

Mercedes as a bishop is fine. She replaces Flayn as your go to fortify user

Yuri as a trickster is what he's tailor made to be. But even Foul Play as useful as it is, won't have him contribute enough to out damage enemies. If you're playing on normal mode that it won't make a difference since you can increase his damage output with death blow and or fiendish blow pending on if you want him to be physical or magic. Though I would honestly make him an assassin since his ridiculously high speed will come into play.

Constance as a Dark Flier is fine. I would advise mastering warlock to get bowbreaker so that way you have an extra layer of protection.

Hapi could stay as Valkyrie or go to Dark Knight for 1 extra move and dark tomefaire

Anna I wouldn't even bother with. I mean sure you can level up for part 1 in preparation for part 2 when you do her side quest battle. But beyond that, you're much better off using Jeritza

Hubert works best as a dark knight at this point so you can go with that

Bernadetta is fine as a bow knight. Encloser is really good

Leonie is also fine as a bow knight too

 

 

[------]

Give Emperor Edelgard the DLC Sacred Galewind Shoes (Mov +2) or the Fetters of Dromi (Mov +1 and Canto iirc). Completely fixes her movement issues, which is what turns a lot of people away from Emperor El even though she's an unstoppable force of nature in every other department. It'll also make pairing her with Byleth easier since they'll be able to stick together more often.

Don't, don't, don't make Dorothea your dancer. Trust me as someone who fell into that trap on my first CF run, she's just too damn good for dancer. Access to Thoron and Meteor means she can pull of some ridiculously long-distance magic snipes, especially if you give her the Caduceus Staff. From chapter 8 onward on my Black Eagles run she was effortlessly deleting people (including an important story boss on chapter 17) from farther away than even Lysithea. That said, you definitely want Gremory for her after mastering Mage and Warlock. Twice the amount of Thoron and Meteor just makes her even more dangerous. Dancer in comparison doesn't do that much for Dorothea. The last thing she should be doing is dancing for someone else, and she's not an enemy phase unit so Sword Avoid's kinda meh on her. Tbh there's nobody on that list I'd really recommend as a dancer except Mercedes or maybe Linhardt if you feel like fighting his low charm. Yuri could also make pretty good use of Sword Avoid if you just wanna get him the cert but keep him in Trickster or Assassin.

Everything else looks great though! I hope you enjoy Crimson Flower as much as I did! :)

[DriftingWaterBottle]

CF late game has a few maps with heavy movement penalty to horse units. You may want to dismount these units, or prioritise fliers/infantry classes in some cases. 
 

Since you already have a few female mages with various utility spells, I think you can afford to consider Hubert as a Sniper with Magic Bow+ (Usable from Bow B rank and arcane crystal can be obtained when feeding cats & dogs) for pure magic damage output and better range than his spells. You can go Monk->Mage->Archer->Sniper. Since he also has a proficiency in Bow, once he gets into Mage, you only need to focus on Bow and Authority for this progression. 
 

Regarding Dorothea as a Dancer, I personally quite like her dancing in BE routes, as equipping Meteor grants wide range link attack bonus. Sword Avo+20 does gets wasted if using Dorothea this way, but I think it’s a trade off worth considering.

[Sooks]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:56 PM, Emmy said:

And i've heard Anna is garbage but i just want Anna because i like her as a character.

wHaT cHaRaCtEr 😜
 

The game itself really isn’t that hard unless you’re playing maddening mode, so tips on building units intricately or best tactics just makes it a complete snooze fest. As long as you’re not being an idiot you should be just fine. As far as your question marks  for tutoring/skills , you should teach people skills they need for certifications (obviously) plus authority because battalions are super useful. Sorry this isn’t really CF specific.

If it is maddening mode I can give you some tips for it specifically, but they wouldn’t be just for CF. The game just really isn’t that hard.

[------]

1 hour ago, DriftingWaterBottle said:

Regarding Dorothea as a Dancer, I personally quite like her dancing in BE routes, as equipping Meteor grants wide range link attack bonus. Sword Avo+20 does gets wasted if using Dorothea this way, but I think it’s a trade off worth considering.

OP mentioned that they're pairing off everybody except Leonie though, which means they're most likely gonna keep their couples glued together on the battlefield to build support. In that case, there's no real need to make Dorothea a linked attack bot since nobody will end up fighting alone.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 minute ago, RainbowMoon said:

OP mentioned that they're pairing off everybody except Leonie though, which means they're most likely gonna keep their couples glued together on the battlefield to build support. In that case, there's no real need to make Dorothea a linked attack bot since nobody will end up fighting alone.

The linked attack effect stacks, though. With at least 3 support partners (I think 4, if one of them is an adjutant). So having the extra Meteor support will never be a bad thing.

Anyway, regarding your list:

On 8/20/2020 at 2:05 PM, Emmy said:

• Byleth - Assassin | Assasin stuff
• Edelgard - Emperor | Reason, Axe, Heavy Armor
• Lysithea - Gremory | Reason, faith so i can make her a gremory.
• Petra - ??? | Lance, Flying
• Dorothea - Dancer | Sword, Reason
• Mercedes - Bishop | ???
• Yuri - Trickster | ???
• Constance - Dark Flier? | ???
• Hapi - Valkyrie? |???
• Anna - War Cleric | Axe, Faith
• Hubert - Dark something | ???
• Bernadetta - Bow Knight | ???
• Leonie - Horse something | ???

Assassin is probably the easiest Advanced class for Byleth to get into, so no problem there. Byleth can certify Myrmidon with no effort, and mastering it gives Speed+2. Then they can easily go Thief for the utility. Or Archer, for extra range and Hit+20, but getting Bows up to C that early will take some doing. Brigand mastery is good on any physical unit, but getting Axes up to C, again, takes some effort for Byleth.

Emperor isn't an especially good class (low movement, poor speed), but at least it's easy to get into. If that's her focus, I would have her go Fighter for Strength+2, then Brigand for Death Blow. Also, certify early as an Armor Knight, to bump her Defense up to 12. Also train in Authority, and don't bother with Reason.

Gremory is a pretty ideal class for Lysithea, certainly. Make sure to go Mage for Fiendish Blow mastery. At the advanced level, Warlock's skills do her no favors, but its stats are good and Bowbreaker is welcome. Whereas, Bishop's mastery of Renewal isn't as good, but White Magic x2 lets her Warp twice per map.

If you train Petra in Lances early, you can get her into Soldier (mastery gives Reposition); otherwise, she can go Fighter to get Strength+2. Pegasus Knight is a good Intermediate class for mobility, and Darting Blow. I recommend also training her in Axes, so she can go Wyvern Rider as an Advanced class. Then either Wyvern Lord or Falcon Knight, either one is great.

Anyone can be a good Dancer, and Dorothea is no exception. Would recommend training her Faith early, so she can also provide Physic support. Could do Monk (Magic+2), then Mage  (Fiendish Blow) or Priest (Heal+5). Otherwise Sword, Reason, and Authority are welcome.

Bishop is the ideal class for Mercedes, given her healing kit. Can easily go Monk, then Mage, then Priest, and finally Bishop.

Trickster is fine for Yuri; it's not especially strong, but it has some utillity. If you want him magically-focused, go Monk to Mage. If physically-focused or mixed, then Myrmidon to Thief just makes sense.

Constance can go Monk, then Mage, then Dark Flier - pretty simple. You could also have her master Pegasus Knight along the way, for Darting Blow. Also train her authority, as the only magic-boosting flier batallion requires B-rank.

Valkyrie works for Hapi; the range+1 is certainly welcome. Similar path of Monk -> Mage -> Valkyrie makes sense, so train in Reason and Riding. Would also welcome Faith training, as she gets some good spells (Physic at C, Warp at A), and Authority for better batallions. If you train her Lances, she could also go Dark Knight toward the lategame.

War Cleric seems fine for Anna; do note, though, that she'll need Brawling, not Axes, to certify in the class. I would have her go Fighter (Strength+2), then Brigand (Death Blow), while using Gauntlets and training Faith in the background. Also good to train her Authority, if you want mixed-offense battalions on her.

If you want Hubert using spells, Monk makes sense as the first step. Dark Mage is better for his offense in the moment; Priest gives him extra healing; and Mage gives Fiendish Blow and lets him compete in the "Black Magic" arena - pick 2 of the 3. Dark Bishop is fine for an Advanced class, but his ideal end class is Dark Knight, for the mobility and damage. So train him in Riding from early on.

Bow Knight is ideal for Bernadetta's proficiencies, and there are basically two paths there: Fighter -> Archer -> Sniper -> Bow Knight, or Soldier -> Cavalier -> Paladin -> Bow Knight. Fighter gives her more power, while Soldier mastery gives her the strong Repositional art. Archer gives extra range and Hit+20, while Cavalier gives extra mobility. Sniper lets her use the powerful Hunter's Volley art, while Paladin is very mobile, and gives her the most damage with Vengeance. Up to you which route you'd prefer, and you can even do some of each.

Leonie's proficiencies match Bernie's perfectly, so I would suggest running her in-parallel to Bernadetta. Like, if Bernie is your Archer, then Leonie can be your Cavalier; or vice-versa. Leonie's big advantage is the Point-Blank Volley art, with A-Bows; this works great as a Bow Knight, because the class's mobility makes up for the art's low-range.

Also, were you planning on using Linhardt? I see he's in your pairings. If so, it's ideal to train him in Faith and Reason. Bishop is ideal for boosted white magic counts and Physic healing. But Dark Bishop gives him higher damage output, and potentially boosted Warp range. He can be good in basically any magic class. If you want, you could train his Riding to go Dark Knight into the lategame.

[Shadow Mir]

To keep Linhardt and Leonie's paralogue open, you must have Byleth defeat one of two bosses in chapter 15, which makes them retreat.

[------]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The linked attack effect stacks, though. With at least 3 support partners (I think 4, if one of them is an adjutant). So having the extra Meteor support will never be a bad thing.

Fair point. Personally I just think Dorothea's too strong a unit to be forced into a full support role. After all, if she's got those spells, she should use them.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Emperor isn't an especially good class (low movement, poor speed), but at least it's easy to get into. If that's her focus, I would have her go Fighter for Strength+2, then Brigand for Death Blow. Also, certify early as an Armor Knight, to bump her Defense up to 12. Also train in Authority, and don't bother with Reason.

Sacred Galewind Shoes and speed items from gardening seemed to fix both these issues for me. She was consistently doubling everything (except swordmasters) in part 2 and had no trouble keeping up with the others movement-wise. I was actually pretty surprised by how much she benefitted from just a couple of stat boosters.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

To keep Linhardt and Leonie's paralogue open, you must have Byleth defeat one of two bosses in chapter 15, which makes them retreat.

Good point! Alternatively, do that paralogue before the chapter 15 mission (I believe it opens at the start of the chapter).

21 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Fair point. Personally I just think Dorothea's too strong a unit to be forced into a full support role. After all, if she's got those spells, she should use them.

For the record, I don't think Dorothea is an ideal choice for Dancer - although, her support ability is part of her usefulness as a unit. She can be good in any of the magical infantry classes - Warlock gives her 2 Meteors and the strongest possible spell damage; Bishop lets her Physicbot while also giving equipped Meteor support; Gremory has better movement and spell count, while losing out slightly on Reason damage and Physic efficacy, respectively.

24 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Sacred Galewind Shoes and speed items from gardening seemed to fix both these issues for me. She was consistently doubling everything (except swordmasters) in part 2 and had no trouble keeping up with the others movement-wise. I was actually pretty surprised by how much she benefitted from just a couple of stat boosters.

The problems aren't insurmountable, of course, but Sacred Galewind Shoes are no small investment - literally any unit would love 2 extra movement. It could help your Dancer keep up, or give your mounted units 2 extra spaces to Canto away. The speed boosters, too - pouring them into anyone with at least moderate speed can create a reliable doubler (and the fact that Edelgard loses speed going from Armored Lord to Emperor will never stop being funny to me). She would have better movement, and equivalent speed without heavy investment, as a Wyvern Lord - and at only a slight cost to bulk. If you want to make her an Emperor, go for it (I did in my first playthrough of CF), but it's far from her optimal class.

[DriftingWaterBottle]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:15 PM, RainbowMoon said:

OP mentioned that they're pairing off everybody except Leonie though, which means they're most likely gonna keep their couples glued together on the battlefield to build support. In that case, there's no real need to make Dorothea a linked attack bot since nobody will end up fighting alone.

Like @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate mentioned, linked attack bonus can go up to 3 units excluding adjutant. Therefore it’s an extra benefit when the Dancer is dedicated to dancing. I agree that Dorothea has a pretty good spell list, and her Riding bane is not ideal for a Dancer candidate, but since OP already has other female mages that can fill Dorothea’s various magic niche, her Meteor support in BE routes is a niche that I think quite unique and worth considering to some degree. 

[------]

On 8/22/2020 at 5:54 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The problems aren't insurmountable, of course, but Sacred Galewind Shoes are no small investment - literally any unit would love 2 extra movement. It could help your Dancer keep up, or give your mounted units 2 extra spaces to Canto away. The speed boosters, too - pouring them into anyone with at least moderate speed can create a reliable doubler (and the fact that Edelgard loses speed going from Armored Lord to Emperor will never stop being funny to me). She would have better movement, and equivalent speed without heavy investment, as a Wyvern Lord - and at only a slight cost to bulk. If you want to make her an Emperor, go for it (I did in my first playthrough of CF), but it's far from her optimal class.

Yeah it's definitely not her best class. I was just pointing out that it's still workable with the right stat boosts if you're hellbent on using it (like me). Tbh, I prefer using stat items to fix certain weaknesses like movement and speed for El or strength for Bernadetta and in-house Ingrid.

I'll also admit to being a little biased against wyvern-mounted classes unless it really makes sense for the character, like Claude or Seteth. Otherwise it's a bit jarring to see people like El or Hilda, who usually dress so extravagantly, to suddenly be wearing dull grey armor and riding around on a flying brown lizard. This is purely a Fashion Emblem opinion though, and nothing against Wyvern Lord as a class.

As for choosing a dancer, I'd consider someone like Mercedes or Linhardt, who are already in a full support role and aren't likely to see any fighting, over someone with a lot of combat potential like Dorothea. But of course that's just my personal preference, in the end it's OP's decision.

 

[Barren]

I mean anyone can make a decent to good dancer no matter who it is. And sometimes you can even forsake the dancer class and just get sword avoid +20, i.e Ferdinand, Dimitri, Felix, Petra, Ingrid, etc.

I remember using Marianne as a dancer in my GD play through and she was really good. She can easily reach movement +1 with her riding boon and can still be a secondary healer if need be. There is still also linked attack support like from Dorothea since she carries meteor (though that and her having thoron and physic is enough reason why people decide against dancer).

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Yeah it's definitely not her best class. I was just pointing out that it's still workable with the right stat boosts if you're hellbent on using it (like me). Tbh, I prefer using stat items to fix certain weaknesses like movement and speed for El or strength for Bernadetta and in-house Ingrid.

Fair enough, play how you'd like. That's a valid use of boosters. IMO, it varies unit-to-unit. Like, I'm using Balthus as a Fortress Knight, so his defense is already quite high. But I'll still give him a shield and stuff him with defense boosters, because I'd rather have one unit who can safely lure 2 physical enemies per turn, than 2 units who can only survive 1 each. Agreed with giving strength to Bernadetta and Ingrid, at least.

13 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

I'll also admit to being a little biased against wyvern-mounted classes unless it really makes sense for the character, like Claude or Seteth. Otherwise it's a bit jarring to see people like El or Hilda, who usually dress so extravagantly, to suddenly be wearing dull grey armor and riding around on a flying brown lizard. This is purely a Fashion Emblem opinion though, and nothing against Wyvern Lord as a class.

Honestly, this is the one reason I used the Lord class whenever possible on my first playthrough of each route. It's nothing special in the moment (Charm skill, and Authority boost, are okay I guess), and the mastery it offers is pretty terrible. But damn, if the three Lords don't look amazing in those outfits. Still, it totally makes sense for Hilda to go Wyvern - she's so lazy, she would love no longer having to walk anywhere!

13 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

As for choosing a dancer, I'd consider someone like Mercedes or Linhardt, who are already in a full support role and aren't likely to see any fighting, over someone with a lot of combat potential like Dorothea. But of course that's just my personal preference, in the end it's OP's decision.

The trouble is, though, Dancing and Healing are distinct support roles. If you're doing 1 in a given turn, you're not doing the other. So if you want to get the maximal Faith/Healing support out of Linhardt or Mercedes, it makes sense for them to go Bishop, while someone else is made a Dancer.

As for Dorothea, I'm curious where your sense of her having a higher combat potential than Mercedes comes from. Starting out, their stats are quite close - Dorothea is up 1 in Magic and Luck, while Mercedes is up 1 HP, Str, Spd, Def, and 2 Res. Growths-wise, Dorothea is up .10 in HP and .05 in Luck, while Mercedes' advantages are .05 Str, .10 Mag, .10 Def, and .10 Res. It's slight, but I would say the numbers are on Mercedes' side, in terms of magical combat.

As for spell lists - in the long run, Dorothea wins out, no question. High-count Sagittae, High-might Agnea's Arrow, combined with range from Thoron and Meteor, give her possibly the best single reason list in the game. And yet, I would counter that Mercedes actually has a better list in the early-game: by C-Reason, she has Fire, Thunder, and Bolganone, for 23 charges total. Whereas Dorothea has Thunder and Thoron - just 12 charges total. As a Monk or Priest, Dorothea's at serious risk of running out of Reason options mid-map, which Mercedes avoids. The humble Fire spell's low weight and high Hit offer a higher chance of doubling, and hitting, the enemy. Dorothea can get this as a Mage, but only in that class - and she'll still have fewer spell charges.

If we talk about boons, Dorothea's swords are to her credit, namely for the Hexblade combat art. Letting her deal magic damage off the might of a sword, this is a powerful and accurate player-phase tool that she has to her name. Still, we should remember its limitations - that it's locked to 1-range, and can't apply on enemy phase. On the plus side again, though, they make Mortal Savant an achievable higher-move class for her.

But with boons, of course, there come banes - Dorothea is weak in both Riding and Flying, which seriously limit her class options. Putting her in a highly-mobile magic class like Valkyrie, Dark Flier, or Dark Knight, won't be impossible - but it will take serious investment. Mercedes, meanwhile, is neutral in these areas - so training for these classes, while continuing to grow in Reason and Authority, is very feasible for her. Valkyrie's range-boost makes up for no Thoron, Dark Flier gives unparalleled magical mobility, and Dark Knight offers great move and damage.

Bottom-line, I don't see an especially strong case for Dorothea having a significant combat advantage over Mercedes. She has certain cool tools at her disposal, yes, but they are offset by Mercedes' better overall stats, and easier access to magical classes with high attack-range. Either one can be good in a combat orientation - but so too can they function well in a support role. Just my thoughts on these two, though. And for the record, I'm not necessarily advocating for, or against, making either one a Dancer.

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16 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Still, it totally makes sense for Hilda to go Wyvern - she's so lazy, she would love no longer having to walk anywhere!

Maybe a bejewelled pink wyvern, then? Gotta make that thing as fashionable as Hilda herself haha

16 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The trouble is, though, Dancing and Healing are distinct support roles. If you're doing 1 in a given turn, you're not doing the other. So if you want to get the maximal Faith/Healing support out of Linhardt or Mercedes, it makes sense for them to go Bishop, while someone else is made a Dancer.

The fact that there's two healers though means that one of them can heal that turn while the other dances. Yes, you could have them both heal while a third person dances, but ideally that third person should be another healer/support of some kind (like Flayn, but she's not available on CF), not a strong offensive unit who's always better off just killing stuff. A dancer Linhardt/Mercedes wouldn't neccesarily dance every turn, either. If at any point you need them both to heal, that's still possible. Dancing's just another thing you can have one of your healers do as-needed, imo.

It's not neccesarily that Dorothea's combat potential is greater than Mercedes's, so much as Dorothea's combat potential far outweighs her healing/support potential, while for Mercedes it's the other way around. Mercedes is the best healer in the game. Like you said before, her ideal class is Bishop. Bishops aren't meant to be offensive units, the class is built around healing and support magic. As impressive as Mercedes's reason list is, that's just not what she's doing as a Bishop. Dorothea on the other hand has four extremely useful reason spells, but a pretty barebones faith list compared to Mercedes. Her time's better spent fighting, not trying to be a middling support unit.

As you probably guessed, my dancer choice here would be Linhardt (just gotta feed him some charm boosters). And then Gremory for Dorothea and Bishop for Mercedes. But again, that's just me. I know that not everyone shares the same opinion about dancers. At the end of the day, the choice is up to the OP. On that note, @Emmy, enjoy your CF run! :)

[Emmy]

To everyone: Thanks for all the answers!

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

18 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

It's not neccesarily that Dorothea's combat potential is greater than Mercedes's, so much as Dorothea's combat potential far outweighs her healing/support potential, while for Mercedes it's the other way around. Mercedes is the best healer in the game. Like you said before, her ideal class is Bishop. Bishops aren't meant to be offensive units, the class is built around healing and support magic. As impressive as Mercedes's reason list is, that's just not what she's doing as a Bishop. Dorothea on the other hand has four extremely useful reason spells, but a pretty barebones faith list compared to Mercedes. Her time's better spent fighting, not trying to be a middling support unit.

You know, that's fair. I would agree that Mercedes is a stronger support unit than Dorothea, due to having a better Faith list and a jump-start on Faith rank. Dorothea still does have a few unique support aspects (her personal skill, Rally Charm, and the aforementioned Meteor-linked attack). I'll grant, though, that her toolkit (powerful Reason spells, Hexblade) lends itself more to a magical offense build.

25 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

As you probably guessed, my dancer choice here would be Linhardt (just gotta feed him some charm boosters). And then Gremory for Dorothea and Bishop for Mercedes. But again, that's just me. I know that not everyone shares the same opinion about dancers. At the end of the day, the choice is up to the OP. On that note, @Emmy, enjoy your CF run! :)

I'm actually using Linhardt as my Dancer on my current (SS) playthrough! I had to pour a lot of tea down his gullet, but now he's one of my highest-Charm units. I've enjoyed him, but haven't made much use of him beyond Dancer/10. This is my first playthrough with the Fetters of Dromi, and they're a huge help on him.

5 minutes ago, Emmy said:

To everyone: Thanks for all the answers!

 

Thanks for putting up with us! And good luck!