Conquest Drinking Thread

[wrecks]

I'm playing Conquest on Hard/Classic for the first time and hoooooo boy is it ROUGH.

(Context: I'm bad at these games.)

Chapter 20. The chapter with the wind bullshit. I've been chipping away at this for the past few days and I finally decide I'm going to finish it tonight. Did a couple of runs. Bad starts. Lost someone early. Reset and move on.

But then I hit on something that actually might be going somewhere. I'm advancing carefully. I control the wind. I am the wind. 

I have one scare with Camilla, but like an angel on high, she dodges an arrow that might have killed her. 66% hit chance. Booyah.

I do lose Shura. I don't know what I was thinking. He was left out in the middle of nowhere and assassinated by one of the fliers. 50% hit chance. A coin flip. A blow, but no big deal. I like Shura, but I can live without Shura. Keep moving.

Finally, I'm in the home stretch. There are no units left on the field except for Fuga and the two Shrine Maidens, one with Freeze and one with Wane. I lead with Xander because this guy is going to carry me to victory. I am unstoppable. I am the wind. Bow down before me, Wind Tribe!

Xander gets hit with Freeze. That's when I notice that two of the reinforcements are Spear Masters (no Swordcatchers, I check), but one of them is an Onmyoji. Rabbit Spirit. Yikes. Okay, okay. This is fine. Xander can't retreat, but he should be able to stand up to one onmyoji and a couple of Spear Masters. I have them bottlenecked and my entire army is behind him. We'll be able to blast this guy and finish this chapter next turn. 

Enemy phase. The onmyoji moves. Big yikes. 19x2?! 80 to hit? What? My Xander is certainly dead. Certainly. There's no way, he only has 30 HP right now, I'm going to lose to a couple of last round reinforcements?!

HE DODGES! I almost cheer out loud. He can take the second hit, no big deal. It's just Spear Masters! I have 11 HP! Hell yes!

The Spear Master moves. 

7x2. 100% hit rate.

Well, screw you too, Conquest.

Anyway, tell me about some times that Conquest screwed you over so I don't feel so bad about myself over here.

[Sooks]

that time it made it seem like it was going to have a good plot by saying that you fight to change within and having very good beginning chapters

[wrecks]

1 hour ago, Sooks1016 said:

that time it made it seem like it was going to have a good plot by saying that you fight to change within and having very good beginning chapters

God that pitch sold me so hard when I was playing Birthright. What a great basis for a story. I love all the Nohrian characters, I'm so excited to see them struggle with their loyalties--

Oh, we're just going to Hoshido to sit on the magic mcguffin chair? Okay. I guess that works too. 

we literally all ate dinner together in Izumo why didn't we mention this to the Hoshidan royalty it would have made things so much EASIER

[Sooks]

because that would see both families working together and we only want to tease that possibility here, gotta get that Revelations money

[starburst]

I really enjoyed your chronicle, the tone and the pace. Do keep us posted.
I love replaying Conquest on Hard. For some time now, I have been playing it with some restrictions, to spice it up.

Over the weekend, I had an awesome run of Chapter 23. Ten units only, no royals, no "backpacks", with units that I seldom use, like Shigure and Midori. I am not very fond of Paladins, thus I decided to have three of them. All in all, I was amazed by the might of this party; they decimated every single enemy patrol in a single Player Phase. First the enemies nearby the lagoon, then Hinata's gang, then Rally Man's squad, then the Masters of Arms six-pack, then onto the roof. They cleaned screens at will. (I do simulate attacks during the Player Phase, but I do not do the maths before the assault; I charge and hope for the best. 😜 )

Well, after thirty minutes, the party had dispatched everyone bar Taco & Co. I dealt with the guards and faced Takumi with Paladin Silas, who had 100 % hit on him, would double and one-round him. But, and this is always a big but, he did not have a full guard-bar. Silas had the best chance against him for, according to my numbers, he would survive Vengeance or Rend Heaven. Takumi did have an 8 % critical hit chance and 67 % hit, therefore, he had a 5 % chance of landing a crit, which was the only way that he could kill Silas. Well, he fucking did! The prick triggered Vengeance and landed a critical hit, erasing my great run!

The moral of the story? Never trust a Paladin to save the day. They are overrated. 😈

[Dark Holy Elf]

Ironically it's a paladin (Xander) who reliably shuts that boss down completely for me on most playthroughs. 🙂

My most recent similar experience was in Hans and Iago's map in Conquest. I had almost won, having winnowed down all but the last few reinforcements that appear in the southern room. I plan out some elaborate plan to kill a few enemies in front of me and leave me open to as little danger as possible to the final couple berserkers bringing up the rear. Part of my elaborate plan involves switching Camilla back to a Bronze Axe to null their crit. Naturally, somewhere in the middle of executing the plan, I forget to do this. I forget if the resulting crit rate was 4 or 5%, but y'all know what happened.

[wrecks]

7 hours ago, starburst said:

I really enjoyed your chronicle, the tone and the pace. Do keep us posted.
I love replaying Conquest on Hard. For some time now, I have been playing it with some restrictions, to spice it up.

Over the weekend, I had an awesome run of Chapter 23. Ten units only, no royals, no "backpacks", with units that I seldom use, like Shigure and Midori. I am not very fond of Paladins, thus I decided to have three of them. All in all, I was amazed by the might of this party; they decimated every single enemy patrol in a single Player Phase. First the enemies nearby the lagoon, then Hinata's gang, then Rally Man's squad, then the Masters of Arms six-pack, then onto the roof. They cleaned screens at will. (I do simulate attacks during the Player Phase, but I do not do the maths before the assault; I charge and hope for the best. 😜 )

Well, after thirty minutes, the party had dispatched everyone bar Taco & Co. I dealt with the guards and faced Takumi with Paladin Silas, who had 100 % hit on him, would double and one-round him. But, and this is always a big but, he did not have a full guard-bar. Silas had the best chance against him for, according to my numbers, he would survive Vengeance or Rend Heaven. Takumi did have an 8 % critical hit chance and 67 % hit, therefore, he had a 5 % chance of landing a crit, which was the only way that he could kill Silas. Well, he fucking did! The prick triggered Vengeance and landed a critical hit, erasing my great run!

The moral of the story? Never trust a Paladin to save the day. They are overrated. 😈

That is extremely hardcore and I respect what you do fully. Geez. It's my dream to do challenge runs one day--but I'm trying to get through my backlog first, haha. I have an awful habit of playing about 75% of a game and then dropping it, so I have a pretty big pile of games to play. 

It's funny that Shigure and Midori are units that you don't use often - they were two of my favorite units during my Birthright run (Shigure especially). I'm using Paladin Silas right now but I don't like it -- I'm kind of finding him to be painfully average. I'm going to drop him as soon as I recruit Soleil, though I don't know how much better she'll be. I went for Azura!Soleil because I thought she looked cute with the blue hair. Shows you how strategic I am.

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Ironically it's a paladin (Xander) who reliably shuts that boss down completely for me on most playthroughs. 🙂

My most recent similar experience was in Hans and Iago's map in Conquest. I had almost won, having winnowed down all but the last few reinforcements that appear in the southern room. I plan out some elaborate plan to kill a few enemies in front of me and leave me open to as little danger as possible to the final couple berserkers bringing up the rear. Part of my elaborate plan involves switching Camilla back to a Bronze Axe to null their crit. Naturally, somewhere in the middle of executing the plan, I forget to do this. I forget if the resulting crit rate was 4 or 5%, but y'all know what happened.

I need to learn to fear 5% crit rates more 😬 Do Bronze Axes really nullify all crits? I really need to keep that tip in my back pocket. Might save me.

I actually finished the chapter this morning! I had an Extremely close call with Niles in an uncannily similar situation with what happened to my Xander, but my Niles has almost 30 Res and is extremely dodgy. It was still a close shave (1 HP!), but I did it! Ophelia ended up ORKOing Fuga. Best girl.

[starburst]

4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Ironically it's a paladin (Xander) who reliably shuts that boss down completely for me on most playthroughs.

Nah!, it is not the class what did the job, not even the unit, but an overpowered sword. Send Siegfried to the convoy and see how he fares. 
Xander is my favourite NPC, though.

On topic: I just completed Chapter 24 and got three sweet moments.

1. Strategist Elise had 34 Res, capped Luck and over 30 Speed. I paired her with Sorcerer Odin at A Support and moved her within the range of Azama’s Hexing Rod. I could not see the chance because I forgot to turn on staff animations, but it must have been around 15 %.
Well, fucking Azama hexed her on his first try! Ahh! I swear to God that this staff is more rigged than Ryoma’s battle against the Purple Ghost at the beginning of the game.

2. OK, the Technical Adult failed, let us try with Kamikaze. This is Band of Brothers now, D-Day.
Mechanist Kaze had 37 Res, Elise casted Rally Resistance on him and Silas paired up with him to be in range of Azama’s Hexing Rod. (Do Paladins grant Res bonuses? You can never count on them.)
Too much Res? Never. Stupid Azama did it again and hexed Kaze with his second charge!

Fuck it! I could not care less about the last hex. I charged against the enemies on the screen, killed as many as possible and organised my ten units for the next phase.
I do not even know whom Azama targeted last. He failed, by the way.

Bonus: Azama triggered Miracle against Sniper Mozilla and her 270 % hit and 45 % crit chances.
 

3. Mechanist Midori had 40 Skill, yes, forty, and all she had to do was to kill a sexy Pegasus Lady with her dagger to gain a full guard-bar, then bait Setsuna, whose first attack would be blocked. Well, Midori missed. She missed the 98 % hit with her dagger against a dying Sky Knight! She lost the full guard-bar, Setsuna doubled her and another unit finished her. “Hello, hello!”
 

I dislike open maps because there is nothing interesting to do. But this one is rigged. I swear. 😂

Edited August 25, 2020 by starburst

[Dark Holy Elf]

9 minutes ago, wrecks said:

I need to learn to fear 5% crit rates more 😬 Do Bronze Axes really nullify all crits? I really need to keep that tip in my back pocket. Might save me.

They add 10 critical evade, so they don't shut down everything, but the option of having 'em can make a big difference.

[Eltosian Kadath]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:58 PM, wrecks said:

 

Xander gets hit with Freeze. That's when I notice that two of the reinforcements are Spear Masters (no Swordcatchers, I check), but one of them is an Onmyoji. Rabbit Spirit. Yikes. Okay, okay. This is fine. Xander can't retreat, but he should be able to stand up to one onmyoji and a couple of Spear Masters. I have them bottlenecked and my entire army is behind him. We'll be able to blast this guy and finish this chapter next turn. 

Fun little trick for dealing with enemy Freeze staff is to have the only units in range be unpaired and adjacent to another unpaired unit, that way whoever is frozen can pair with someone and use their movement to do whatever they want.

On 8/23/2020 at 9:58 PM, wrecks said:

 

Enemy phase. The onmyoji moves. Big yikes. 19x2?! 80 to hit? What? My Xander is certainly dead. Certainly. There's no way, he only has 30 HP right now, I'm going to lose to a couple of last round reinforcements?!

HE DODGES! I almost cheer out loud. He can take the second hit, no big deal. It's just Spear Masters! I have 11 HP! Hell yes!

The Spear Master moves. 

7x2. 100% hit rate.

Xander's terrible speed strikes again...

 

As for the topic more directly, my most recent Conquest run is a draft (link here if you are curious: https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/92389-fe14-anyone-interested-in-a-conquest-hardclassic-draft/page/2/#comments) where we are playing for turns, which makes it hard not to feel like the luck is entirely my fault. A lot of chapters I have needed good luck to get the turn count I am shooting for, so a bit of bad luck along the way is kinda expected. Although I must admit the games insistence on showing skill procs on missed attacks led to one torturous moment where I thought I finally had the 6 turn clear of chapter 9 with my goofy team, only for the 8-9% (depending on levelup) Dragon Fang procing kill to miss, after all the luck needed to get there (there were a lot of 80s, a vital double 53 hit on enemy phase against the paired Samurai with duelist blow, and 1-2 misses needed to boot)... that moment of hope dashed so crushingly...

 

[wrecks]

21 hours ago, starburst said:

She missed the 98 % hit with her dagger against a dying Sky Knight! 

OUCH. That HURTS. What would the real to hit be for that? 99.5 or something?

20 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

They add 10 critical evade, so they don't shut down everything, but the option of having 'em can make a big difference.

*takes careful notes*

I feel like that will be useful for the Takumi fights in these last chapters, though I feel like a ORKO against him is really my only chance of survival lmao

16 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Fun little trick for dealing with enemy Freeze staff is to have the only units in range be unpaired and adjacent to another unpaired unit, that way whoever is frozen can pair with someone and use their movement to do whatever they want.

I SHOULD have done that for Xander!! I tried to do that for Niles but fucking SILAS had too little movement to rush in and save the day.

This has become the "Silas is painfully average" thread, throw the man away

17 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

A lot of chapters I have needed good luck to get the turn count I am shooting for, so a bit of bad luck along the way is kinda expected.

I never thought that drafts/"competitive" challenge runs were for me because the scoring depends on a low turn count and I take my sweet, sweet time on these maps most of the time. Do your strategies really rely that much on luck? How long does it take you to get through a chapter with your desired turn count?

Sorry y'all, I'm not a newbie to FE but I am a newbie to these advanced strategies and this shit is Fascinating

[Shadow Mir]

Ouch. Honestly, I think that map gimmicks that move the player's units against their will is something the series needs to stay far, FAR away from.

21 hours ago, starburst said:

Nah!, it is not the class what did the job, not even the unit, but an overpowered sword. Send Siegfried to the convoy and see how he fares. 

An overpowered sword only he can use. Also, why the hell would you do that short of challenging yourself?

On 8/24/2020 at 6:43 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Ironically it's a paladin (Xander) who reliably shuts that boss down completely for me on most playthroughs. 🙂

My most recent similar experience was in Hans and Iago's map in Conquest. I had almost won, having winnowed down all but the last few reinforcements that appear in the southern room. I plan out some elaborate plan to kill a few enemies in front of me and leave me open to as little danger as possible to the final couple berserkers bringing up the rear. Part of my elaborate plan involves switching Camilla back to a Bronze Axe to null their crit. Naturally, somewhere in the middle of executing the plan, I forget to do this. I forget if the resulting crit rate was 4 or 5%, but y'all know what happened.

So ein mist!

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

19 minutes ago, wrecks said:

I never thought that drafts/"competitive" challenge runs were for me because the scoring depends on a low turn count and I take my sweet, sweet time on these maps most of the time. Do your strategies really rely that much on luck? How long does it take you to get through a chapter with your desired turn count?

Truth be told this is my first run where I have been trying for low turns on Conquest, so its been a new experience for me as well. That was my most luck intensive chapter so far, but a lot of my strats so far end with "and now I need a crit or Dragon Fang to kill the boss", which means replaying chapters for a roughly 10% chance at the very end of it.

Also I will note that there are drafts that score for real time as well, although they are rarer (the streams Mekkkah has been doing of speedrun drafts is where I first saw such challenges)

[starburst]

23 hours ago, wrecks said:

That is extremely hardcore and I respect what you do fully. Geez. It's my dream to do challenge runs one day

It is just a style. In this campaign from 2018 I was already using ten units and no royals. It was more a consequence than a goal: I wanted to use the characters that I actually liked, and using the same overpowered units over and over was boring.
The real deal is on the LTC and 0 % Growths runs. That is hardcore, mate. 😂

 

2 hours ago, wrecks said:

Do your strategies really rely that much on luck? How long does it take you to get through a chapter with your desired turn count?

That may be the only way to achieve it, specially at the beginning.
Like any trick, LTC runs are fun to watch, but one only sees the successful attempts.
If the plan is clear, you will at least have novel ideas and an interesting approach.

[wrecks]

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

but a lot of my strats so far end with "and now I need a crit or Dragon Fang to kill the boss", which means replaying chapters for a roughly 10% chance at the very end of it.

WOW. Mad props. That takes patience and fortitude. Good luck on your runs! I'll be lurking in the background, plus you picked almost Exactly the units I would have picked so I'm rooting for you 👀

40 minutes ago, starburst said:

It was more a consequence than a goal: I wanted to use the characters that I actually liked, and using the same overpowered units over and over was boring.

I can definitely see that being an issue. Old habits die hard and all that. I definitely support creativity in these runs, and, as a fan of speedrunning, I love that moment when lady luck smiles and you get a great run. These games are like 1000x deeper than I ever played them so I love that people really dig in here.

In other news, I beat Chapter 21 tonight and had basically ONLY blessed RNG. 10% crits procing left and right (At LEAST two from Niles and one from Xander, not to mention Sorcerer!Leo and Sorcerer!Ophelia carrying their weight) and some CHOICE enemy misses made for smooth sailing. I was forced to put Silas in sacrificial range but RNG decided he was allowed to live another chapter. I loved the freezing mechanic, too. Chapter 21 is super fun.

[starburst]

On 8/25/2020 at 9:35 PM, wrecks said:

OUCH. That HURTS. What would the real to hit be for that? 99.5 or something?

I wrote that message from memory, and I tried to reproduce it on my second attempt, but Midori always had 100 % hit over the Sexy Pegasus Ladies. 🙃
I did see a 93 % hit against a Kinshi girl, but the one in the original run must had been a Pegasus one because Midori was at 1-range and lost the full guard-bar. Oh, well.

Yesterday, on Chapter 25, Sorceress Ophelia missed two consecutive 88 % hit Lightning attacks against the Life or Death Sword Master. This has a 1.44 % chance of happening!
Since I disable animations and I was sure that Ophelia had killed him, I immediately moved another unit to hit the surrounding enemies. It was only after I tried to position this other unit exactly where the Sword Master was that I realised that it was still alive! 😂

 

21 hours ago, wrecks said:

I can definitely see that being an issue. Old habits die hard and all that. I definitely support creativity in these runs, and, as a fan of speedrunning, I love that moment when lady luck smiles and you get a great run. These games are like 1000x deeper than I ever played them so I love that people really dig in here.

I do enjoy that luck is a factor in Fire Emblem. Yes, we sometimes have an improbable miss at crucial moments and fail the mission, but so is life.
I do not plan phases with improbable hits or skill triggers in mind, but when I am in a difficult situation and I must bet, I pick the unit with the highest critical hit chance or the one with the highest avoid and hope for the best. Luck should not be the strategy, but it is fair.

 

21 hours ago, wrecks said:

In other news, I beat Chapter 21 tonight and had basically ONLY blessed RNG. 10% crits procing left and right [...] Chapter 21 is super fun.

I am one of those who find Chapters 17 and 19 rather methodical and easy, despite everyone's complaints. And while I am not a fan of Ch 20, it can be completed fast thanks to the winds (they lift you directly into the boss within the first turns!) But let me tell you something: I have always been afraid of Chapter 21!
God, every movement on that map is thrilling for me, even though I know exactly what to do and complete it around turn 8 (killing both bosses and fielding all ten units, no ferrying-Cornflakes cheese.) I get so nervous that I cannot say that I truly enjoy it. 👻

Edited August 27, 2020 by starburst
Clarity.

[wrecks]

On 8/26/2020 at 1:15 PM, starburst said:

I am one of those who find Chapters 17 and 19 rather methodical and easy, despite everyone's complaints.

Hoo boy I gotta say I HATED chapter 19, I cheesed the Heck out of that one. My Benny is built like a brick shithouse so I gave him a Beast Killer and let him go to town. I didn't have that much of a problem with chapter 17, but I did let Saizo go and kill himself. Didn't bother keeping him alive for the reward.

I did pair nearly Everybody up in chapter 21, but I had to put Azura in a lot of danger in a few situations. I mostly had it under control. It really only took 5 REs from basically blind. I just loved that stop mechanic! Planning on when I was going to use the Dragon Vein and when I was going to tough it out for just one more turn was fun. 

I just hit Chapter 23 and everything about it scares me. Right now I'm kind of just planning on having Camilla ferry people over the gap because I do NOT want to deal with Hinata whilst getting rained on by Takumi. Any tips?

[Shadow Mir]

21 minutes ago, wrecks said:

I just hit Chapter 23 and everything about it scares me. Right now I'm kind of just planning on having Camilla ferry people over the gap because I do NOT want to deal with Hinata whilst getting rained on by Takumi. Any tips?

Just fly over the gap. It's not like Hinata or any one of the enemies around there is worth dealing with. HOWEVER, the wall portion where Oboro is is ten billion times harder to approach thanks to Lunge and the fact that you get swarmed immediately by everything. And once you get there, you have to play Russian Roulette against the boss, who not only has very high crit, but two proc skills (Rend Heaven and Vengeance). Which, incidentally, makes me think that crits really need to be nerfed.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[starburst]

3 hours ago, wrecks said:

Hoo boy I gotta say I HATED chapter 19, I cheesed the Heck out of that one.

But the defensive thresholds are actually not that high. For example, you could use a Cross formation with Elise at the centre and give tonics to the front-liners. It has always worked for me, regardless of the party. Paladin/ MoA Sophie, Paladin/ Berserker/ Wolfssegner Shigure, whatever Velouria, Berserker Ignatius, Paladin/ Hero Silas, +Magic Noble/ DK Corrin, Sniper Mozu, Mechanist Anna, any Wyvern Lord… they all can be “tanks”against the foxes. It does not matter who their pair-ups are or what type of weapon they wield.
It takes around 15 turns with ten units. It should be faster for you.

Before, I mentioned a thread from two years ago, if you visit it, you will read exactly the same thing that I am telling you now about Chapter 19. It may be a boring map, but it is certainly not difficult.

 

3 hours ago, wrecks said:

I just hit Chapter 23 and everything about it scares me. Right now I'm kind of just planning on having Camilla ferry people over the gap because I do NOT want to deal with Hinata whilst getting rained on by Takumi. Any tips?

Taco’s ballista is irrelevant because you can kill Hinata’s gang in a single Player Phase. Do not let it scare you, think that ten units do it every time.

I have never fly-skipped it, but if you decide to deal with its different sections, I may be able to give you some tips.
Just a few days ago, Dr. C and I were talking about Chapter 23. He is also playing it with ten units, no royals, no “backpacks”, and we have been sharing some ideas.

Edited August 29, 2020 by starburst
Grammar.

[wrecks]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:28 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Just fly over the gap.

On 8/28/2020 at 6:18 PM, starburst said:

I have never fly-skipped it,

I wanted really badly not to flyskip it, but after several failed attempts I decided to just try the fly-skipping. I got it on the first try. Oboro was tough but I was able to box my sorcerers behind my frontline units and smash her. Takumi went down easy to my Keaton, who I'm pretty sure is pushing 40 STR at this point. It wasn't very EXP efficient but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Getting through a few rounds of Boo Camp isn't that time consuming.

I just had a string of horrible luck during chapter 24. I made it all the way to Hinoka. Xander missed a 96% hit against an onmyoji which... is par for the course at this point, thanks Xander. Most of my units had a 50-60% chance to hit against Hinoka, so I figured I'd ignore the extra pegasus units she summoned and just rush her. God, did that turn out to be an awful idea. Keaton must have missed four or five times, I send Odin in with a Hunter's Knife and a 75% hit rate to finish her off, miss. I dance and make him try again, miss. Neither of my generals could touch her.

Xander has fallen off in usefulness these last few chapters very hard. But I think getting through Chapter 23 was a huge morale boost for me. I'm trying to marathon all three games and I'm getting very close to hour 100, so I'll take the morale where I can get it!

Thanks for your guys' help! It's nice to have a place to just talk about the game, haha.

[Shadow Mir]

16 hours ago, wrecks said:

Most of my units had a 50-60% chance to hit against Hinoka, so I figured I'd ignore the extra pegasus units she summoned and just rush her. God, did that turn out to be an awful idea. Keaton must have missed four or five times, I send Odin in with a Hunter's Knife and a 75% hit rate to finish her off, miss. I dance and make him try again, miss. Neither of my generals could touch her.

In case you don't know, thanks to Winged Shield, she can benefit from terrain - in this case, the gate she's guarding. That said, sometimes the Oni Chieftain she is paired up with comes out to play instead (note he has Certain Blow and Life and Death); defeating him weakens her.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 8/25/2020 at 8:47 PM, Shadow Mir said:

An overpowered sword only he can use. Also, why the hell would you do that short of challenging yourself?

Yeah, an exclusive weapon is an extension of the unit itself. In theory, this hurts Xander when reclassing, but reclassing is rarely optimal - especially when it means working up from E-rank weapons. I had fun with Swordmaster Xander on Revelation, but Paladin is still probably his optimal choice.