Mechanic from Three Houses that you would and wouldn’t like to see in the next FE

[ciphertul]

Now that 3H has been out for a while I personally would like to hear about the next game. 3H introduced and reworked a lot of old systems and mechanics. Which mechanic would you like to see return in the next entry and which would you like to see be dropped?

The mechanics I would like to see continued are 1: The skill system, I loved the focus on more passive skills along with class and personal skills. I hope the bring that along and hope the expand it more like with stances to go with blows. 2: The Forge system, I think 3H had the best forge system of all the games so far.

The mechanics I don’t want bad are 1: 3H Class system, I don’t want free class and weapon access. Each character should have a set line/tree and maybe 1-2 more if reclass is kept. Class identity is crucial to prevent useless more just greatly outclassed classes. 2: Spells/ Weapon weight, I lumped those 2 together as the are both subsections of the Weapon system. But 5 Str per weight is just way to much, most characters can’t wield steel weapons with out being slowed. Characters gaining their own spell list is fine but having no access to anything the don’t learn hurt a lot of characters.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Would:

Archer rework (technically an SoV mechanic). Nerf the max range a bit though. It's nice that archers finally have a place.

Magic system rework. It's really nice and actually incentivizes players to use, rather than hoard high end spells and staves.

Monastery/Base/Camp - Shrunk down heavily. It either needs instances removed or optimized, because load times to move around here are unacceptable. It's clearly based on Trails of Cold Steel's academy, and Trails managed to minimize loading to the point that it's practically unnoticeable.

 

Would Not:

Calendar system. Especially the way it interacts with grinding battles. There should never be a use them now or lose them pressure with side activities and grinding.

Chance-based promotion.

Lost items.

Professor rank or equivalent.

More than 2 routes.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Gordin]

Would not: 4 routes. Resources are spread too thin and thus every route feels rushed at some point

[ciphertul]

42 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Would:

Archer rework (technically an SoV mechanic). Nerf the max range a bit though. It's nice that archers finally have a place.

Magic system rework. It's really nice and actually incentivizes players to use, rather than hoard high end spells and staves.

Monastery/Base/Camp - Shrunk down heavily. It either needs instances removed or optimized, because load times to move around here are unacceptable. It's clearly based on Trails of Cold Steel's academy, and Trails managed to minimize loading to the point that it's practically unnoticeable.

 

Would Not:

Calendar system. Especially the way it interacts with grinding battles. There should never be a use them now or lose them pressure with side activities and grinding.

Chance-based promotion.

Lost items.

Professor rank or equivalent.

More than 2 routes.

Yea, the monastery is a take or leave spot for me, if done right could be useful but has a lot of ways it could go wrong.

I agree on pretty much all of your drop points, but I will say I don’t see them doing a “professor level” again or the calendar for that matter

[vanguard333]

Would:

1. Monastery/Base Camp: the base system was one of my favourite gameplay features of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, and the monastery is a massive upgrade to it. That said, I would prefer if the next game had smaller bases and more than one base, so that the army can move and we're not always returning to the same location. 

2. Shields/Equippable Items: I like the idea of having it that characters can have a shield or other item equipped with the cost being additional weight. The weight system shouldn't be 5 strength = -1 weight, but I like this approach to having shields and other items. 

3. Battalions: battalions were a great addition overall that really added a lot to the game. The fact that flying units were restricted to flying battalions was a nice thing for incentivizing infantry, if only a little. That said, I would like to see them get something added to them without them getting too complicated; maybe a formation system or something like that?

4. Combat Arts: I like how combat arts work in this game: namely no double-attack and an increased cost to durability.

5. Monster Units: the way that they take up more than one tile and encourage use of battalions is really great; they provide a very interesting challenge. I also hope the next game has shapeshifter units and that they use some of the monster mechanics from this game. 

6. Certain support conversations being restricted behind completing specific sections of the game: As much as I found it a little annoying at first when I couldn't watch a support conversation because I wasn't far enough into the game, I will say that it did allow for the conversations to involve things they wouldn't have been able to write if you could watch the support conversation at any time, and I think the trade-off is worth it most of the time. 

 

Would Not:

1. Four story routes. This game, particularly in later chapters, has a strong smell of "Bit off more than they could chew". While I like how ambitious they were with this game, I do think the next game should dial it back on "multiple-choice story" and focus that ambition towards more manageable goals, like making sure the stories in the game are deep, compelling, and airtight.

2. Fishing mini-game. What is a fishing mini-game doing in Fire Emblem?! I know that it's practically a staple of RPGs, but this is Fire Emblem. Tactics, unit permadeath, fishing; one of these sticks out like a sore thumb. It was okay in this game for getting fish for food and grinding Professor Level, but I really don't think it should stick around. 

3. Calendar system. Again, this is a case of: it was alright for this game, but I don't think it should be in the next game. 

4. Custom Main Protagonist: I don't like the custom character being the center of attention for the story. I liked Byleth as a professor and a supporting protagonist to the three lords, but I wasn't a fan of the frequent moments when Byleth was center-stage; again, it was fine for this game, but not a next game. The fact that Byleth was so heavily involved also restricted what he could be: you couldn't customize them beyond their name, and their proficiencies were fixed. I'm fine with custom characters, but I think that, for the next game, if there is a custom character, then they should play the role of s supporting protagonist: the lords are the ones the story should focus on. 

[Yexin]

now this is a topic i'm interested in

Things I'd like to see returning:
1) The skill system, just like OP said: i like both passive skills and %-based skills (although i like %-based ones a bit better), and i like personal skills, they help giving characters something unique to them, something only they can do

2) Supports that advance/can't advance with the plot: i understand that many won't agree, but i loved how some supports couldn't be achieved if you didn't unlock them in time, it makes supports

although these next mechanics were not introduced with 3H, i'd like to se coming back:
3) Weapon and magic/tome weight: i really like it, it doesn't necessarily add anything to the game, but i feel kinda bad when FE games don't have this mechanic; the formula 3H uses really sucks though, i wish they could go back to PoR and RD's formula

4) Management Menu/Base/Monastery: i like it, but exploring the Monastery is a huge no no for me, it simply takes too many resources from a development perspective, and too much time for players to explore, compared to what it actually allows them to achieve
again, PoR and RD's base was amazing and didn't need to be changed

 

Things I would not like to see returning:
1) Battalions: don't like at all how they've been implemented, don't want to see them ever coming back

2) Calendar: don't think FE needed a calendar system like Persona or Trails of Cold Steel

3) Fishing Minigame: i mean it's not terrible, but not incredible either

4) Extremely free class system and %-based promotions: no, just no

again, these things were not introduced by 3H, but they're present in it
5) Multiple routes: i discussed these topics so many times

6) Avatar: that i don't feel like doing it again; tl;dr "just stop"

Edited August 24, 2020 by Yexin

[Fabulously Olivier]

I think the fishing minigame as implemented should not happen again. Because the ring timing system is unfun and imprecise. But one akin to the Trails system could be fun.

 

That said, minigames need to be strictly optional and have no ties to primary progression (ie: professor rank). Tying them to an optional reward (like points you can trade for weapons) are fine.

[ciphertul]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

2. Fishing mini-game. What is a fishing mini-game doing in Fire Emblem?! I know that it's practically a staple of RPGs, but this is Fire Emblem. Tactics, unit permadeath, fishing; one of these sticks out like a sore thumb

Oh! I know this one! The answer is “School Life simulator” right? Jokes aside I hope the don’t do another school setting on the next one too

[Carter]

Would:

• Weapon types not locked to a class. I like that you can have an axe-wielding Pegasus or a bow-wielding Hero.
• Magic spells limited to each battle, as opposed to draining your HP or having weapon durability like physical weapons have.
• A main camp (the monastery). I liked how you can walk around and interact with the students and faculty members. It reminded me of Fates, except it was in 3D. Would be nicer if it wasn't so huge and took a long time to find people.
• Two slots for equipping a weapon and a ring/shield. Being able to have a ring/shield was nice, and really helped out for my characters that had low speed or low accuracy.
• Range increase for Bows in certain classes. Range increase for reason/faith at S rank.
• Skills/Combat Arts that are exclusive to certain characters (like Swift Strikes or Frozen Lance). Also that you can learn some skills/combat arts from increasing your weapon rank, rather than all skills being tied to classes.

Would not:

• Calendar system. It's a nice idea and I liked it the first two times I played the game, but I really feel like it drags out the game, especially Part 1. It's so hard for me to get through the first part of the game because I dread having to go through all the months. I liked having an overworld map like in Sacred Stones, Awakening, and Echoes.
• Fishing minigame
• Weapon durability
• Gender-locked classes

[Fabulously Olivier]

58 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Oh! I know this one! The answer is “School Life simulator” right? Jokes aside I hope the don’t do another school setting on the next one too

I think they can adapt the teaching mechanics without a school setting. Having your tactician serve as a captain or drill instructor could serve just as well in a more typical setting.

[ciphertul]

16 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I think they can adapt the teaching mechanics without a school setting. Having your tactician serve as a captain or drill instructor could serve just as well in a more typical setting.

I personally kinda would like to see like a military training grounds serve as the the plot. If it has an avatar character, then make them the Jagen character. As they act as the drill instructor for the new recruits. No school life or peace (regular or false).

But as with anything if done right it would work.

[Fabulously Olivier]

5 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I personally kinda would like to see like a military training grounds serve as the the plot. If it has an avatar character, then make them the Jagen character. As they act as the drill instructor for the new recruits. No school life or peace (regular or false).

But as with anything if done right it would work.

Making them the Titania would be the right way to tune that. Old enough to be experienced, young enough to be appealing. Strong early, weaker late, relevant all game.

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Making them the Titania would be the right way to tune that. Old enough to be experienced, young enough to be appealing. Strong early, weaker late, relevant all game.

I think that would also fix the no avatar as main character idea too, as the main character could be a friend/Liege/trainee to the avatar. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

11 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I think that would also fix the no avatar as main character idea too, as the main character could be a friend/Liege/trainee to the avatar. 

Also, if they wanted to tell a darker, Geneology-esque story, your avatar could be a Jagen with really poor growths, die at the midpoint, and their kid, whose physical and combat traits are inherited from their mother becomes the real avatar.

 

There's a lot of fun ways to play with the trope.

[ciphertul]

3 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, if they wanted to tell a darker, Geneology-esque story, your avatar could be a Jagen with really poor growths, die at the midpoint, and their kid, whose physical and combat traits are inherited from their mother becomes the real avatar.

 

There's a lot of fun ways to play with the trope.

Well... I for one, I’m not about killing off characters pointlessly... but each to their own. I would like to see that (albeit, maybe more of a critical injury) but I don’t think most people would like the return of the kids

Edited August 24, 2020 by ciphertul
On phone... at work

[Samz707]

I would like how apparently Devil Axes only drain a bit of HP per turn equipped to be how they work, my unit potentially one-shotting themselves with a crit is simply too much of a risk for me to ever consider using them.

As for what not to use: the entire monestary, I personally think they did literally everything wrong with it and it's the reason I can't bring myself to ever play it nowadays, since i'll do tedious fetch quests and other medicore stuff for an hour and maybe get 15 minutes of actual FE gameplay if I'm lucky, it also runs and looks terrible with constant pop in/out and the fact there's no animations beyond "sitting down" and "standing still" for main characters, Even Oblivion had stuff like dudes practicing by firing arrows into targets rather than just all standing still in a training area while not training.

None of Three House's attempts to "Hide" flaws in FE should return, The whole group gathering in a half-circle saying a single line referring to their personality trait, apperaing/disappearing soldiers on close ups and other similar stuff should be torn out entirely, they're terrible and only serve to kinda highlight what they're trying to avoid, actually making the flaw even more obvious and worse than past entries, they personally all back-fire HARD and should be removed.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Samz707
More reasons.

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, ciphertul said:

Oh! I know this one! The answer is “School Life simulator” right? Jokes aside I hope the don’t do another school setting on the next one too

I agree that the next game shouldn't have a school setting; it was great for Three Houses, but it probably won't fit whatever the next game's story will be. That said, certain elements of it, like the skill level training, could easily be fit into a new context and would be cool to see return. 

[Sooks]

Would:

Divine pulse (I know technically an echoes thing but the ability to sort of choose how many you have is nice, although I don’t think acquiring them should be necessary to go down an overall upgrade path like the statues)

Alternative ways to building support then leaving character A and Character B next to each other the whole map, kinda hurts any good strategy when I just want these two people who clearly belong together to get married

This s support system, just a cute little scene with your favorite character at the end of the game, not the Fates bonding stare into their eyes stuff (I’m not sure this counts as a mechanic now that I think about it)

Wouldn’t:

Class skills, destroys the purpose of anyone can be anything when everyone is objectively best as one of like three classes (the same three per person, anyway)

Anyone can wield any weapon or magic, for the exact same reason as class skills, it makes classes less unique which even further hurts the anyone can be anything thing

Fishing, enough said

[lenticular]

Keep

The new magic system. Having spells limited on a per-map basis was great for getting rid of the "too good to use" syndrome that often accompanied rare staves and tomes in other games.

Front-loaded recruitment. I know that ironmanners hate this, and I completely understand why, but from my perspective, this was great. It means that every character gets a lot of screentime and chance to shine, which suits my tastes and preferences much better than having awesome characters who I want to love except they only show up near the end.

Keep but needs refining

An explorable hub. I liked the monastery and the idea behind it, but it definitely still needs refinement. I like the sense of place that it gave and the fact that every character had at least something to say after every battle, but it was a bit too much overall. Something smaller would probably be better going forward, and I would prefer if most of the out-of-battle stuff was kept as pure flavour and characterisation and not anything that gives mechanical advantage. Let it be more easily skippable for people who don't care or people on second and subsequent times through.

Free class progression. I had a lot of fun coming up with interesting builds or running bad builds only as a challenge run, and I really like how a lot of characters had kits that were built to encourage that sort of experimentation. But there's definitely stuff that didn't work for me. RNG based class changes needs to go, and they also need to either work on class balance or come up with some other method of encouraging class diversity, because having everyone going down a select few class progressions is not fun. Self-imposed restrictions are all well and good (and were what I did), but they aren't a substitute for a well-balanced game.

Maybe, but probably not

Fódlan. I really liked the setting and the characters a lot, but I feel Fódlan's story is pretty much told at this point. If they have some amazing story idea for a sequel, prequel, or side story, then I'd welcome a return to Fódlan, but what I 100% do not want to see is "oh, this game did well so let's make another game in the same setting even if we have to use a really unimaginative, weak, derivative story".

Not as a series staple

Monsters. (By which I mean, Three Houses style monsters that take up multiple squares of map, have shields, etc.) I never found them that compelling to fight in the first place since they were mostly just damage sponges, and I can't see them getting better with age.

Batallions and gambits. They're too heavily tied to monsters (to the detriment of both systems, honestly), didn't work particularly well graphically, added extra busy-work to manage them, and added UI clutter. I liked some of what they did and would like to see some of the gambits reworked as either spells or combat arts, but I think the overall balance on these was negative for me.

A school setting. It was fun once, as a change-up to the more traditional Fire Emblem formula, but that doesn't mean I want it to come back.

Burn with fire

Dismounting. Mounted units are generally strong in Fire Embelm games. Giving them an easy and free way to negate their weaknesses is not good. It is doubly not good in a game with completely free class choice.

Fishing. I'm actually the sort of person who quite likes fishing minigames. Take the fishing minigame in Stardew Valley, for instance? I know a lot of people who hated that. I loved it. But the fishing in Three Houses has two big issues. First: why is it in a Fire Emblem game? And second: why is it really terrible? Begone from my sight.

[vanguard333]

15 hours ago, lenticular said:

Keep

The new magic system. Having spells limited on a per-map basis was great for getting rid of the "too good to use" syndrome that often accompanied rare staves and tomes in other games.

Ah, yes; the old video game paradox: "Useful, therefore never use". It is good that Three Houses' magic system fixed that, and it would be good to see that return. 

 

17 hours ago, Sooks1016 said:

Would:

Alternative ways to building support then leaving character A and Character B next to each other the whole map, kinda hurts any good strategy when I just want these two people who clearly belong together to get married

Absolutely; the addition of different ways to build support between units was a great addition. Honestly, I would be more than fine with stuff like the mess hall returning as a way to build support. 

[ciphertul]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Ah, yes; the old video game paradox: "Useful, therefore never use". It is good that Three Houses' magic system fixed that, and it would be good to see that return

The magic system isn’t bad, but I think have tomes would help with a cushion. Having learnt spells is all well and good but if some characters get stuck with bad spell list that could be remedied with spell tomes that break, you could always make those tomes repairable.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, ciphertul said:

The magic system isn’t bad, but I think have tomes would help with a cushion. Having learnt spells is all well and good but if some characters get stuck with bad spell list that could be remedied with spell tomes that break, you could always make those tomes repairable.

Repairable tomes is certainly another way to handle it that would have its own pros and cons while still avoiding, "Useful, therefore never use". I like Three Houses' system because it allows mage characters to carry a large amount of spells and still have room in their inventory, but I wouldn't mind seeing tomes return as that would make spells more interchangeable rather than being locked to specific characters as you said. Different pros and cons. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Retain:

The Combat Arts system. I generally like how they cost durability now, and that there's a mix of universal and unique arts. Some of the arts could be touched up, though.

Reapairing with ore. Repairing itself started with Genealogy, but I like that it takes a resource other than just gold now. Also, it's a way better way to do legendary weapons, than making them breakable .

Mastery Skills. I like how these encourage you to stay a bit longer in a class than you might otherwise, rather than promoting ASAP.

Non-resetting level. A simple touch, but I like it as a way to immediately distinguish the power and experience between two units.

Refine:

Gambits. Basically, I think it'd be cool for the next game to make gambits character-unique, like a personal skill. Possibly locked behind an item or event. I'm kind of ambivalent on the batallions.

The Magic system. I like the personal spell lists, but I think adding consumable tomes or staves into the mix could be a good step. Also offering more varied spells. And I would treat spells like combat arts, so you can equip a few (the number will depend on class) per each map.

Monastery/base. Agreed with those who want a smaller base, or even one that changes aesthetically at different story points.

Retire:

Gender-locked classes. It's a shame that only Fates has really defied this series convention. I want more dudes on pegasi, dammit!

Chance-based certifications. I like the idea of building up ranks to get into a desired class, but they should lower the floor, and make it fixed.

Motivation. It just feels like a chore, and is part of the Monastery tedium. If instructing returns, it should be limited, but not by making sure you share a meal with all your soldiers.

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, ciphertul said:

The magic system isn’t bad, but I think have tomes would help with a cushion. Having learnt spells is all well and good but if some characters get stuck with bad spell list that could be remedied with spell tomes that break, you could always make those tomes repairable.

I think it would be interesting, instead of tomes, to have a rare consumable item that would allow a unit to permanently add a single spell of your choice to their list of learnt spells. For levels of rarity, I'm imagining that over the course of the game, you might get one to teach a white magic spell and one to teach a black magic spell, and that's it. That would be enough to give anyone a decent spell list or could be used to cover gaps in your chosen team (eg, you would always be able to have a warper without having to recruit one of the few characters who learn it naturally), but it would retain a lot of the flavour of unique spell lsits.

[X-Naut]

Keep:

1) Instruction-based reclassing. Having to earn the weapon rank to reclass is a great gateway.
2) Instruction in general. Make it a base function, or better yet something for undeployed units to do.
3) The combat arts menu. Being able to equip three at a time is nice.
4) The accessory slot. Much better way to balance out skill rings/shields/etc.
5) Class-tied skills. They give classes a stronger identity and some live and die by them.

Toss:
1) The monastery. It gets stale on subsequent playthroughs and drags the game's focus away from the maps.
2) Freelance weapon use. Weapons are better off tied to classes and I don't like free -Faires as a stay-in-bounds incentive.
3) The class and promotion system. Chance-based certifications suck and I want more concrete class progression back.
4) Counterattack. This is a cheap way to make a boss threatening and it doesn't belong on player units ever.
5) Recruitment. I want my rosters balanced across the whole game back : <
6) Heroes/Inflated caps. I already disliked personal caps in mainline games but this is ridiculous.

Modify:
1) The magic system. Give us both learnt spells and tomes, casting a tome you know gives you the "forged" spell.
2) Personalized skill learnsets. Tare it down and cut the clutter, closer to the Jugdral/Tellius system.
3) Dismounting. Throw away the Mount command, it's a Get Out of Weaknesses Free card. Nerf dismounted movement.
4) Weapon weight mitigation. I like that it's a fraction of Strength but how about a weapon rank component?
5) Repairing. It could stay but, Fire Emblem's economy isn't made with it in mind... Needs some changes to work.

Edited August 26, 2020 by X-Naut
Remembered something else I dislike that slipped my mind the first time