Something you'd love in a fire emblem game but fear you'll never see

[Lightcosmo]

7 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah a friend mentioned it since he's read/looked into the game, neither of us have played it yet but it's on both of our to do lists.

Well, it's pretty difficult I'd say. Unless you get the main characters secret class (which is a pain) but busts the game into a million pieces. 

If you like challenging strategy games, I reccomend it! 

[Alastor15243]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Considering I could over a year after its release buy it cheaper new than used, that definitely shoots down the possibly of it ever appearing ever again in any capacity.

That depresses me to this day. Code Name Steam was a great game, lots of fun, and its issues could have easily been ironed out by a sequel or spiritual successor.

[starburst]

10 hours ago, Gordin said:

Sex scenes in a fates remake. There's no saving that game so might aswell go full waifu emblem

If you press Enter at story segments on Conquest then you are left with the best gameplay of the entire series. 😜

I have fun with those 80's sex comedies and do not mind some dirty jokes and skin here and there. Yet, while the pandering in Conquest is undeniable, the only interaction with actual sexual references that I can think of is a dialogue between Niles and Felicia. And it is actually funny.

[Sidereal Wraith]

I’d like FE to try to tackle Dark Fantasy, like Poul Anderson’s The Broken Sword or Glen Cook’s The Black Company. The major problem with this idea is that such a game won’t be in line with the ethos of the series.

[Samz707]

19 hours ago, starburst said:

If you press Enter at story segments on Conquest then you are left with the best gameplay of the entire series. 😜

I have fun with those 80's sex comedies and do not mind some dirty jokes and skin here and there. Yet, while the pandering in Conquest is undeniable, the only interaction with actual sexual references that I can think of is a dialogue between Niles and Felicia. And it is actually funny.

I quite liked the sexual references in Echoes.  (such as Clive and Mathilda's love life that gets heavily implied at numerous points.)

Give me amusing dialogue like that over dumb outfits any day.

Too bad there was no Alm/Berkut supports, considering how Ian Sinclair also did Space Dandy, we can only imagine how glorious it would have been, like Berkut telling Alm about the booty.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Samz707

[joevar]

8 hours ago, Samz707 said:

I quite liked the sexual references in Echoes.  (such as Clive and Mathilda's love life that gets heavily implied at numerous points.)
Too bad there was no Alm/Berkut supports, considering how Ian Sinclair also did Space Dandy, we can only imagine how glorious it would have been, like Berkut telling Alm about the booty.

maybe if there were a post-game dlc map like in awakening. dunno why they didnt milk the fanbase more with echoes.
that way berkut can be magically survive and have some chat with alm without the context of war and empire

Also we need more pre-established relationship char like those two. so dont have to see awkward teen searching for love and friendship all the time in support (i blame awakening for that trend)

Edited October 7, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

A focus on the importance of naval combat. This is an element of war that has basically been invisible in Fire Emblem. We've had a handful of maps set on boats (and even among them as far as I can recall only Awakening's is actually a battle that's part of a war and not a random monster/pirate attack) but that's about it. Meanwhile naval combat is an absolute crucial facet of war for any nations that aren't land locked (and even then with big enough rivers the marine environment is crucial). More important than the land side of the war in most times. Ocean access provides so much in terms of transport and supplies. It's a really big deal that Fire Emblem is ignoring. Archanea is the worst since half the nations on that continent are islands and the others have really useful ocean corridors that are never used. Yet not a single boat map in any of those games. Surprised they even showed Marth sailing to Talys, confirms they know about the existence of ships, which nothing else in the games acknowledges.

They reason why there's less focus on ocean routes and war is kind of obvious albeit, they don't want to have half the game take place on a single boat and controlling ships directly will put us in something more like Advance Wars. But they could still highlight this aspect in the plot. We don't necessarily need to fight all the battles taking place in the oceans and harbour towns, but referencing them existence and the importance of blockades and embargoes would be much appreciated. Coming to think if referencing other fronts of the war would be much appreciated too. Playing these games it usually gives the impression that you're the only one anywhere doing anything. Telliis mitigates this a bit, but not by a large amount.

[Alastor15243]

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Telliis mitigates this a bit, but not by a large amount.

It also inexplicably has no fish or dolphin or whale or shark laguz even in its lore, despite the backstory of a global flood they would have been in an insane position to survive. Apparently only birds and reptiles and land mammals evolved sapience in that world.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 10/5/2020 at 12:57 PM, Alastor15243 said:

That depresses me to this day. Code Name Steam was a great game, lots of fun, and its issues could have easily been ironed out by a sequel or spiritual successor.

I agree, it was good. Not too complicated, and not perfectly balanced despite only 12 characters + FEmiibo and the trophy 13th. But the strategy was still present, fun, and you never felt like there wasn't danger somewhere in wait. It's obvious problem is that it needed to be more anime, nobody reads 1800s novels anymore!.

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

A focus on the importance of naval combat. This is an element of war that has basically been invisible in Fire Emblem. We've had a handful of maps set on boats (and even among them as far as I can recall only Awakening's is actually a battle that's part of a war and not a random monster/pirate attack) but that's about it. Meanwhile naval combat is an absolute crucial facet of war for any nations that aren't land locked (and even then with big enough rivers the marine environment is crucial). More important than the land side of the war in most times. Ocean access provides so much in terms of transport and supplies. It's a really big deal that Fire Emblem is ignoring. Archanea is the worst since half the nations on that continent are islands and the others have really useful ocean corridors that are never used. Yet not a single boat map in any of those games. Surprised they even showed Marth sailing to Talys, confirms they know about the existence of ships, which nothing else in the games acknowledges.

For the bold, Three Houses could've done something here, since Koei Tecmo is forced with every single new Dynasty Warriors to produce at least one ship map for the Battle of Red Cliffs/Chibi. China apparently is a case where big rivers mattered and could be filled with big boats. From what little I know, the one major reason why the little Kingdom of Wu (Claude) managed to survive against the great big Kingdom of Wei (Edelgard) was that Wu was protected by rivers which they militarily controlled so strongly that Wei was never able to seize them (well it eventually did as Jin, but that was waaaaaay later).

And for the Vikings, weren't rivers key to their fabled pillaging? Paris doesn't get plundered (845 CE) without rivers, because it's nowhere near the coast.

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

They reason why there's less focus on ocean routes and war is kind of obvious albeit, they don't want to have half the game take place on a single boat and controlling ships directly will put us in something more like Advance Wars.

I wouldn't rule out the plausibility of a separate form of warship SRPG gameplay thats pops up once in a while between many traditional battles. Though thats on paper, and I'd agree with the great crowd shouting "Don't make this frivolous gameplay junk, focus on the traditional FE stuff! Naga knows you ain't able to make that consistently good IS!".

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

It also inexplicably has no fish or dolphin or whale or shark laguz even in its lore, despite the backstory of a global flood they would have been in an insane position to survive. Apparently only birds and reptiles and land mammals evolved sapience in that world.

I know you're speaking of lore, but "water specialist units" sound like they'd be questionable in gameplay.

• If their goodness depends on water existing, and water existing is terrible for infantry/cavs/armors, then water maps sound imbalanced and not fun.
• And when water doesn't exist... 
  • ...then are the water specialists fish out of water, 
  • ...or do you give them so much that they're already good?
    • In the latter case, then why are you giving them water-heavy maps to make them even better?

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

But they could still highlight this aspect in the plot. We don't necessarily need to fight all the battles taking place in the oceans and harbour towns, but referencing them existence and the importance of blockades and embargoes would be much appreciated. Coming to think if referencing other fronts of the war would be much appreciated too. Playing these games it usually gives the impression that you're the only one anywhere doing anything. Telliis mitigates this a bit, but not by a large amount.

I absolutely agree with your navy-specific and more general point here. And Tellius still runs into issues at the loathsome end of Part 3, what is the Begnion Central Army doing after 3-10 while you're off in Daein?

I'd add other instances, like... 

• What is the Grust-Macedon-Gharnef!Khadein-Dolhr-Gra alliance doing after Marth leaves Aurelis and heads southeast. Was there any attempt to reclaim Aurelis after the departure of Marth, the Crown Prince Coyote, Nyna, and presumably most of their assembled forces.
• What about the offhand resistance movements in Silesse and Augustria that overthrow Grannvalian imperial authority after Chapter 10? Did the vestiges of the withdrawn occupation armies of those countries assist in Julius's last stand?
• While the coup (it's no "revolution", not even in the old Glorious Revolution sense) was underway in now-harmless Etruria, did Bern attempt to reclaim the Lycia it had nearly conquered a few months prior?

Sacred Stones surprisingly isn't so bad here, since it is stated that Innes was thwarting Grado offscreen during the pre-split chapters. Though why Ephraim didn't start his campaign from the freshly captured Renvall instead of going down the west coast of Magvel, has no lore explanation, only an obvious gameplay one.

Blockades and embargoes would matter more if sieges mattered more, but sieges aren't something that get talked about a lot in FE. Because sieges take time and are too tedious for a video game. The best we get here is Thracia with all the talk offscreen of Tahra before we arrive and later the timeskip over Leonster. Admittedly, both of the battles that we get are kinda a little epic here, and so are the siege-ish 2-F and 3-13,  though we're not the besiegers in any of them!

And, I'm reminded in reality, how wars can be won on one front, yet can be lost on another and thats overrides the victory elsewhere. Frederick William the Great Elector of Prussia waged a highly successful campaign against the then-powerful Sweden for several years, forcing it to abandon its German possessions. And yet, Frederick William's success was not rewarded, because Sweden's French ally had won even greater victories to the west against Prussia's allies and still maintained Europe's greatest army. So when Prussia's allies acquiesced to France's demands of returning everything to Sweden, Prussia had no choice but to hand back everything it had gotten on wartime merit alone, particularly after France did a raid on Prussia territory as a warning against further resistance. -This isn't exactly what you mean, it involves diplomacy overriding military action, but I suppose it does point out another facet IS could narratively sharpen up?

Edited October 7, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

A focus on the importance of naval combat. This is an element of war that has basically been invisible in Fire Emblem. We've had a handful of maps set on boats (and even among them as far as I can recall only Awakening's is actually a battle that's part of a war and not a random monster/pirate attack) but that's about it. Meanwhile naval combat is an absolute crucial facet of war for any nations that aren't land locked (and even then with big enough rivers the marine environment is crucial). More important than the land side of the war in most times. Ocean access provides so much in terms of transport and supplies. It's a really big deal that Fire Emblem is ignoring. Archanea is the worst since half the nations on that continent are islands and the others have really useful ocean corridors that are never used. Yet not a single boat map in any of those games. Surprised they even showed Marth sailing to Talys, confirms they know about the existence of ships, which nothing else in the games acknowledges.

They reason why there's less focus on ocean routes and war is kind of obvious albeit, they don't want to have half the game take place on a single boat and controlling ships directly will put us in something more like Advance Wars. But they could still highlight this aspect in the plot. We don't necessarily need to fight all the battles taking place in the oceans and harbour towns, but referencing them existence and the importance of blockades and embargoes would be much appreciated. Coming to think if referencing other fronts of the war would be much appreciated too. Playing these games it usually gives the impression that you're the only one anywhere doing anything. Telliis mitigates this a bit, but not by a large amount.

The thing is, Medieval naval warfare wasn't much. A lo of the time, it largely amounted to people on ships throwing fletched javelins at people on other ships. Ships in Northern Europe were mainly for transporting troops rather than direct combat; it's the Byzantine Empire that used naval combat the most, and a lot of it was carried over from the Late Roman Empire as far as I know. 

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I agree, it was good. Not too complicated, and not perfectly balanced despite only 12 characters + FEmiibo and the trophy 13th. But the strategy was still present, fun, and you never felt like there wasn't danger somewhere in wait. It's obvious problem is that it needed to be more anime, nobody reads 1800s novels anymore!.

 

 

Honestly for me the problem is just the infinite reinforcements on some maps, in Echoes I can at least kill the Cantor and stop them coming, that's not an option in Steam.

[Ottservia]

Splitting up troops in a campaign is something I’d like to see and I don’t mean like split routes or anything like that but rather splitting up your army to capture different forts or landmarks. Like have a chapter select be a map in a strategy room with different battles marked on a map and maybe when you finish one battle those units will go and reinforce other locations. Like make it feel like an actual war with different strategies and flanking maneuvers not just a linear Shounen story that has a war in it. 

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

I wouldn't rule out the plausibility of a separate form of warship SRPG gameplay thats pops up once in a while between many traditional battles. Though thats on paper, and I'd agree with the great crowd shouting "Don't make this frivolous gameplay junk, focus on the traditional FE stuff! Naga knows you ain't able to make that consistently good IS!".

 

 

Yeah, I did think of that. It would be possible to have basically two different game modes, but it would be a rather risky departure from the norm. I'd settle for just a few more ship battles in game and just some more references to them happening off screen. Though if they did go full pirate Emblem for one entry I'd love that. Especially if instead of a continent it was some kind of archipelago instead.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

• What is the Grust-Macedon-Gharnef!Khadein-Dolhr-Gra alliance doing after Marth leaves Aurelis and heads southeast. Was there any attempt to reclaim Aurelis after the departure of Marth, the Crown Prince Coyote, Nyna, and presumably most of their assembled forces.
• What about the offhand resistance movements in Silesse and Augustria that overthrow Grannvalian imperial authority after Chapter 10? Did the vestiges of the withdrawn occupation armies of those countries assist in Julius's last stand?
• While the coup (it's no "revolution", not even in the old Glorious Revolution sense) was underway in now-harmless Etruria, did Bern attempt to reclaim the Lycia it had nearly conquered a few months prior?

 

I don't think they even reference what happens to the non Sacae/Illia route you take in Sword of Seals. If I go Ilia is Sacae still there and hostile and I just ignore it? Or did Yodel take care of it off screen (and how can you even go from Ilia to Bern without going through Sacae?).

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

The thing is, Medieval naval warfare wasn't much. A lo of the time, it largely amounted to people on ships throwing fletched javelins at people on other ships. Ships in Northern Europe were mainly for transporting troops rather than direct combat; it's the Byzantine Empire that used naval combat the most, and a lot of it was carried over from the Late Roman Empire as far as I know. 

Well that goes back to how the battles themselves wouldn't necessarily be exciting. But even for trade alone and disrupting trade and reinforcements, control of the seas is still a big thing. The shape of the land would obviously play a factor in how evident this should be. Like I said Archanea is the biggest offender while it's less of a big deal in Fodlan.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Honestly for me the problem is just the infinite reinforcements on some maps, in Echoes I can at least kill the Cantor and stop them coming, that's not an option in Steam.

I can see your point. Though if the reinforcements were coming in from behind, it didn't bother me. Cantors delay your progress forward, a good deal of the aliens were pursuers, forcing you to move ahead. It suited the mood of the game, you're a strike force, not an army, you're not trying to save the world via total eradication of the enemy, that is impossible, so while the enemy overwhelms the world, you surgically swoop in to fatally stab them in the heart.

[joevar]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

A focus on the importance of naval combat. This is an element of war that has basically been invisible in Fire Emblem. We've had a handful of maps set on boats (and even among them as far as I can recall only Awakening's is actually a battle that's part of a war and not a random monster/pirate attack) but that's about it.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well that goes back to how the battles themselves wouldn't necessarily be exciting. But even for trade alone and disrupting trade and reinforcements, control of the seas is still a big thing. The shape of the land would obviously play a factor in how evident this should be. Like I said Archanea is the biggest offender while it's less of a big deal in Fodlan.

if its something about lore, and helping the big picture of the war like you said, then sure. but if you were to make a map and unit that specializes in water, because you want something other than land-locked foot soldier that would bring a big problem. landlocked foot soldier cant function well (or at all) in water, and vice-versa. Then, if you make a situation where theres water all over the map and it gives too much advantage for water unit, that would be no fun. No one afaik want another sand maps that hinders your movement soo much like in FE6 but this time gets replaced by water

dont tell me you want ship to ship battle with permadeath to the ship with personalities of their own? what is this, kancolle?  😂

Edited October 8, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

if its something about lore, and helping the big picture of the war like you said, then sure. but if you were to make a map and unit that specializes in water, because you want something other than land-locked foot soldier that would bring a big problem. landlocked foot soldier cant function well (or at all) in water, and vice-versa. Then, if you make a situation where theres water all over the map and it gives too much advantage for water unit, that would be no fun. No one afaik want another sand maps that hinders your movement soo much like in FE6 but this time gets replaced by water

Well, yeah, which is why I said this.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

They reason why there's less focus on ocean routes and war is kind of obvious albeit, they don't want to have half the game take place on a single boat and controlling ships directly will put us in something more like Advance Wars.

Though for a single entry I would enjoy a game that has water as a primary aspect of every map. But on the other hand I'd also like a game with a Arabian aesthetic which has a tonne of desert maps and like camel riders to serve as mounter desert units. I'm not saying every Fire Emblem needs to be that way, but I think it would be fun and make a distinctive to experiment with. For the series as a whole though

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

 I'd settle for just a few more ship battles in game and just some more references to them happening off screen.

 

[joevar]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

desert maps and like camel riders to serve as mounter desert units. I'm not saying every Fire Emblem needs to be that way, but I think it would be fun and make a distinctive to experiment with.

one or two desert map, sure for variety sake. but when its no fun like in Fe6 with ambush spawns.. i can see someone stop playing because of that.
maybe a desert map that gives you a path (run from enemies objective maybe?) , but if you want to shortcut you have to go thru sands that slows you down (and possible ambush with anna shop somewhere in it for the giggles)

Edit: i just remember that, theres a "pirate" class in elibe game. its as closest you can get for unit with affinity for water afaik. maybe you could hope for water related things more in possible Elibe game remake

Edited October 8, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

one or two desert map, sure for variety sake. but when its no fun like in Fe6 with ambush spawns.. i can see someone stop playing because of that.
maybe a desert map that gives you a path (run from enemies objective maybe?) , but if you want to shortcut you have to go thru sands that slows you down (and possible ambush with anna shop somewhere in it for the giggles)

Edit: i just remember that, theres a "pirate" class in elibe game. its as closest you can get for unit with affinity for water afaik. maybe you could hope for water related things more in possible Elibe game remake

I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying. I'm not demanding there be more pirates in Fire Emblem. I'm saying two things, 1, that in terms of narrative I'd like naval combat and other fronts of a war to be a more pronounced thing, and 2, I would like to see experiments done that pit Fire Emblem in a radically different style of terrain like ocean or desert. This does not mean I want more water and desert maps in standard Fire Emblem, they throw a satisfying enough in as it, it means I'd like to see an entire game dedicated around this single terrain type as a core mechanic that influences all classes and combat. Simply porting current Fire Emblem into a game with every map being a desert would be awful, but building a game around a desert or ocean setting with unique mechanics and classes that utilize it in different ways could work well for a single distinct game.

And Pirates aren't just in Elibe. They're basically a staple of the series appearing in half the games in the series.

[joevar]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying. I'm not demanding there be more pirates in Fire Emblem.

and i dont think you get what i meant either. because thats not why i mention pirate at all. its the exact opposite. Because there is pirate class and character, i hope there would be more emphasis at one point about anything related to naval warfare
another simple comparison: if a games gives many type of aircraft to use, why arent there air-related mission
didnt understand? pirate is ingredient, there should be something that you can make out of it. Im not asking for more ingredient just pointing out theres that.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

1, that in terms of narrative I'd like naval combat and other fronts of a war to be a more pronounced thing, and 2, I would like to see experiments done that pit Fire Emblem in a radically different style of terrain like ocean or desert. This does not mean I want more water and desert maps in standard Fire Emblem, they throw a satisfying enough in as it, it means I'd like to see an entire game dedicated around this single terrain type as a core mechanic that influences all classes and combat.

isnt this basically what im saying/agreeing in previous post(s)

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

And Pirates aren't just in Elibe. They're basically a staple of the series appearing in half the games in the series.

never implied theres only pirate in Elibe. More than half if you count brigands as the subtitute of pirate (because of plundering). i mention Elibe because both Elibe games have Playable unit that start as pirate. If you think im wrong because forgot to mention Archanea, Jugdral also have pirate... alright sure im making a honest.big.mistake

Edited October 8, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

58 minutes ago, joevar said:

isnt this basically what im saying/agreeing in previous post(s)

 

Yes, but I've been saying it since my original post and it seemed like you weren't getting it.

58 minutes ago, joevar said:

never implied theres only pirate in Elibe. More than half if you count brigands as the subtitute of pirate (because of plundering). i mention Elibe because both Elibe games have Playable unit that start as pirate. If you think im wrong because forgot to mention Archanea, Jugdral also have pirate... alright sure im making a honest.big.mistake

There's playable Pirates (from base) in Archanea too. And Pirate is a promotion option for Ross in Magvel too. No playable pirates in Jugdral, but if we get a Jugdral remake with reclassing it should definitely be an option for Briggid.

[henrymidfields]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:26 AM, Ether said:

A solo female lord with her own agency and story focus. No male lord to swoop in and be the focus and real hero in the end, as Fire emblem typically does when we get a female lord at all. Edelgard was a step in the right direction but three houses was afraid to commit, making her the only lord you get an out from supporting mid-route and giving disproportionate dev time to AM and Dimitri.

This is definitely one. (Though I haven't played Three Houses yet, so my appointed juryon Edelgard is out.) This is why I love P3P: Minako/Kotone/FeMC remains on centre stage for the entire time.

Alternately, I want a male Lord that doesn't hog the spotlight, but instead, the majority of the main conversation scripts are done by his units:

On 10/21/2019 at 6:19 PM, henrymidfields said:

There's actually one common thing from the plot that I liked in TMS#FE and Persona 3-4. I liked how the former three games gave due focus on the other characters and didn't have the protagonist necessarily hog the proverbial (and literal in the case of TMSFE) spotlight all the time. I mean:

• Itsuki may have lead the party in and around the Idolaspheres, but the majority of the concerts, acting, and performances are done by Tsubasa, Touma, and others.
• Yu may had found out the real culprit in the serial murders, but Yosuke and Naoto did the majority of the talking and thinking to get to that point, if not others as well.
• Likewise, Minako may had led everyone up Tartarus, but Mitsuru and Akihiko found SEES in the first place, and took care of the teammates outside of Tartarus, and Minako also needed Mitsuru's mission control to get some basic idea of what she needed to do. 

This may not be all that easy for new FE entries, but for remakes, the main script is already there, so it shouldn't be that much of an effort to expand it. In any case, I want the story further expanded upon, with a number of extra cut-scenes (and maybe even character-specific arcs) for a few non-Lord characters that you managed to keep alive. And the protagonist actually interacts with them as like generals and lieutenants/squad leaders. For some ideas in FE6:

Recurring episodes:

• Marcus manages the discipline of the troops for Roy and discusses training, and he can also provide insight on the politics of Lycia and Bern from past experience. He can also talk about how some people betray the alliance. Out of cowardice? (Eric could be this.) Out of personal greed? (Wagner in Chapter 6.) Or out of a not-so-unfounded fear of retribution and punitive sanctions from the invaders? (It would be interesting to write a script, if Leygance was this, and he became desparate after the disaster at Araphen.)
• Lilina and Roy could discuss how different actual practice is compared to theory learnt from Cecilia, and how it can be daunting. They can also talk about leadership and how they can exercise it.
• If Roy romances Thany or Sue, the former can listen to the stories of Ilia/Sacae from the latter, and also have them as the leading scouts into the nation. Alternately, Lilina can do that instead - out from her desire to learn more about the different nations - if Roy romances Lilina. If a save state from FE7 Echoes is detected, then extra conversations may happen depending on who is Roy's/Lilina's parents. Lyn!Roy or Lyn!Lilina will have an extended conversation with Sue, and Fiora!Roy and Florina!Lilina will ditto with Thany.
• If Douglas survives in Chapter 16, then Lalum thanks Roy for sparing her father. She also lets on further stories about how she got to the Western Isles, and how she and Douglas shifted things behind the scenes against Aracard and Roartz.

Other characters can have their own episodes here and there:

• Cecilia, Perceval after Chapter 14, and Saul corresponds to the rebels and to Jodel and discusses how further political and tactical pressure can be applied against Aracard and Roartz.
• Actually, Saul and/or Dorothy can even comment on why they are in the Western Isles with Roy at Ebracum in Chapter 11 - Jodel asked them to investigate the extent of Oro's corruption, and the whereabouts of the church's previously-sent auditors. And they can take statements from exploited citizens to be sent back to the Etrurian Vatican and appoint a replacement bishop to restore order and work out restitution.
• Dieck and Klein may have an extended conversation together if they already have support, and discusses the possibility of visiting the Rigel manor and the colosseum after Chapter 16 (or 16 Paralogue).
• Rutger reminisces his younger days in Chapter 20 of the Sacae route, and resolves to take down Bern to settle his accounts against them.
• Milady, Zeiss, Elen, and Guinevere convince Bernians to stand down and surrender, in Chapter 21?

In any case, I'd like to see a more significant/visible role of teamwork affecting the plot, with Echoes!Sigurd, Echoes!Roy and Echoes!Eirika/Ephraim, and Echoes!Ike/Micaiah actively having to rely on others, and backing off every now and then to give focus for the others' characters' arcs - all like what Itsuki, Yu, and Minako did - instead of what tends to happen a bit too often: a near-invincible Lord near-single-handedly saving the continent.

And well, if it is going to take until 2025 or even 2030 to do all of this with proper quality control, with multiple scenarios accounting for units that previously died in battle, without any pseudo-dead units, then by all means, they should spend the extra time to properly craft the script. If it takes that long for them to create something that is of high-quality, I'm willing to be patient and wait.

Edited October 8, 2020 by henrymidfields

[Jotari]

Oh here's one I think I'll never see. I want to see the enemy nation try to make peace when it becomes clear the war is not going their way anymore. Fire Emblem really likes to have the enemy king fight to the bitter end with the war only ending when the capital falls and they are personally killed. And the game always tries to ramp up the tension on this part even though in reality it's basically smooth sailing for the protagonist. They've already conquered every part of the nation except this one castle yet it's always framed as the pivotal desicive battle. Some times it makes sense when the evil king archtype is also the final boss so they personally are powerful enough to turn the tide so long as they live. But for every Medeus and Julius you have Zephiels and Hardins. It's be so unexpected and throw a real curve ball into the mix if the villains start suing for peace. Suddenly the protagonist is faced with a dilemma of either ending the war and sparing lives of continuing it to finish the job and ensure what ever ills befell them are avenged. Hell make it a choice the player gets to make with a branch split.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh here's one I think I'll never see. I want to see the enemy nation try to make peace when it becomes clear the war is not going their way anymore. Fire Emblem really likes to have the enemy king fight to the bitter end with the war only ending when the capital falls and they are personally killed. And the game always tries to ramp up the tension on this part even though in reality it's basically smooth sailing for the protagonist. They've already conquered every part of the nation except this one castle yet it's always framed as the pivotal desicive battle. Some times it makes sense when the evil king archtype is also the final boss so they personally are powerful enough to turn the tide so long as they live. But for every Medeus and Julius you have Zephiels and Hardins. It's be so unexpected and throw a real curve ball into the mix if the villains start suing for peace. Suddenly the protagonist is faced with a dilemma of either ending the war and sparing lives of continuing it to finish the job and ensure what ever ills befell them are avenged. Hell make it a choice the player gets to make with a branch split.

I blame World War II for this. The last great conventional war (hopefully for the rest of human history) required the complete conquest and destruction of the primary European foe. That wasn't the case with World War I, and that wasn't the case with numerous prior European wars, though total conquests of course also existed. Heck, on the Pacific front, the X-Day invasion of the Japanese homeland never happened, so their surrender wasn't total conquest. And in neither theatre was there the kind of glorious final battle FE would have us assume, Berlin was granddads and grandsons with bazookas, not exactly going out with a bang; Japan did go out with a -controversial- bang, but no battle.

Either you need to have an appetite for conquest & pillage or undying vengeance, or, your opponent needs to be an irrational madman and or egotistical. I think these are the criterion to justify having a war last to through the gates of the enemy's capital. FE's lords never want to steal territories, and only very rarely are filled with hatred. So what it boils down to, is FE villains being egotistical madmen and mad dragons.

FE doesn't want to consider that rational people, some ambitious but still rational, start "bad wars" with other rational people, who may or may not also be ambitious. And that in reality, you can't kill them all off for good, sometimes you have to live with them. Or worse, you have to live with those who are indeed the scourges of humanity at your border, because there is no lord in shining blue hair to vanquish them.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I blame World War II for this. The last great conventional war (hopefully for the rest of human history) required the complete conquest and destruction of the primary European foe. That wasn't the case with World War I, and that wasn't the case with numerous prior European wars, though total conquests of course also existed. Heck, on the Pacific front, the X-Day invasion of the Japanese homeland never happened, so their surrender wasn't total conquest. And in neither theatre was there the kind of glorious final battle FE would have us assume, Berlin was granddads and grandsons with bazookas, not exactly going out with a bang; Japan did go out with a -controversial- bang, but no battle.

Either you need to have an appetite for conquest & pillage or undying vengeance, or, your opponent needs to be an irrational madman and or egotistical. I think these are the criterion to justify having a war last to through the gates of the enemy's capital. FE's lords never want to steal territories, and only very rarely are filled with hatred. So what it boils down to, is FE villains being egotistical madmen and mad dragons.

FE doesn't want to consider that rational people, some ambitious but still rational, start "bad wars" with other rational people, who may or may not also be ambitious. And that in reality, you can't kill them all off for good, sometimes you have to live with them. Or worse, you have to live with those who are indeed the scourges of humanity at your border, because there is no lord in shining blue hair to vanquish them.

It is perfectly reasonable for a video game with its progression and escalation to end with a climactic battle like that. So my issue is less that it happens and more that the inverse also never happens.

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So my issue is less that it happens and more that the inverse also never happens.

The inverse wouldn't make for a good finale, unless there was a pitched battle of epic proportions outside of the capital or Temple Where The Ultimate Weapon/Dragon Is Charging Up To Kill Everyone. Say... Chapter 21 Binding Blade with some modifications to make it feel more final? Zephiel concedes misanthropic annihilation outside of Bern's borders is impossible, so he keeps Idunn close and churning out more dragons, while he actually educates his people in how not to be human trash and how to seek their own mass suicide one day when another king of Bern has conquered the world.

Alternatively, keeping things short of total conquest works well for a secondary, non-final enemy. They distract you from the main threat, so deal a decisive blow and if they're rational you sue for peace afterwards. You could make a mini-gameplay choice in this. Do you make peace with the secondary enemy to focus on the main one, knowing well they could break the terms negotiated and return to war with you later? Or do you eradicate the secondary enemy because you fear them, at the cost of leaving your defenses against the main enemy undermanned?