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twilitfalchion

Who are your least favorite 3H characters?

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25 minutes ago, Jbunzie said:

Especially, something over an assumption that holds no water at all.

This is false. Sylvain is right that many women would just want him for his Crest. Women with Crests, such as Ingrid and Mercedes, have been targeted for baby-making for their Crests as well. Ingrid's paralogue is actually all about that! Some jerk noble wants to marry her just because she has a Crest and you have to fight this guy's troops.

As for Mercedes, it's spoilers involving Jeritza, but she was targeted too.

And Fodlan's entire society revolves around these Crests. Sylvain's assumption is not baseless. He's wrong to assume ALL women would treat him this way, yes. But he can't know for sure which ones would do so until it actually happens and he doesn't want it to.

14 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Actually, there is something I am somewhat curios about and that´s Sylvain’s performance as future heir to the house of Gautier since Miklan having been disowned. Is it ever expanded upon whether or not he neglects his duties as a future heir (however they are defined in FE:TH) over his pursuit of dates or does he pull through on them?

Actually, yes. We do learn how he handled things as Margrave Gautier through his endings. He's indicated to have been a very good leader, possibly one of the best in Fodlan. Not only did he make peace with Sreng so they didn't have territory issues or anything, he played one of the biggest roles in changing society so Crests were not so important and necessary. And if he's married, he basically turns into Frederick! He becomes absolutely faithful, loving, and dotes on his children. Of which he has many and loves them all equally.

Edited by Anacybele

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11 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Actually, there is something I am somewhat curios about and that´s Sylvain’s performance as future heir to the house of Gautier since Miklan having been disowned. Is it ever expanded upon whether or not he neglects his duties as a future heir (however they are defined in FE:TH) over his pursuit of dates or does he pull through on them?

If you're asking whether his dating activities interfere with his role, I can't imagine that they do - and that's part of the point of why he does what he does. I think he assumes (in Part I at least) that his marriage will be to some woman of noble status picked out for him to have Crest children with and continue the Gautier line, so it doesn't really matter to him what kinds of relationships he gets into with other women - they inevitably won't last anyway. Occasionally he flirts with women he shouldn't (as his support with Ingrid flags) but that's probably the extent of the problems he causes to his family. Even if he'd gotten a girl pregnant, I doubt his family would care too much if the baby doesn't have a crest. Ugly behaviour, but classic nobility. 

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2 hours ago, salinea said:

Raphael

He only seems to be here as comic relief. And very dumb comic relief at that.

WhaAAatT?!  How dare you hate on Raphael?!  I shall make challenge of the two of uz to the DeAth!..

 Every stupid 3h characters... are stupid cartoons.. at least Raphael is straight forward about and not pretending to have some depth... later disappointing you when you realize the writers suck...

Spoiler

 Raphael actually had his parents murdered and is stressed about supporting his sister.  He knows he’s dumb and slow and the only thing going for him is his body.  But he’s always cheerful and optimistic!  ... so that happy clown you see him as is superficial.  Poor poor Raph... 😞

Anyways... 😛

 My dislikes are evenly distributed between Dorothea, Cyril and Ignaz.

 Dorothea for her personality.  I hate when writers try to force a character be linked with obvious physical appearance and cheap seduction.  Am like:  Oh you trying hard me to like her?  Well, I won’t!  I understand her drama, just don’t like it.

Cyril... poor guy... had a bad first impression and never liked him since.  Was at the greenhouse very early in game.  He said:  Looking for greenhouse?  There!  Looks like greenhouse, THAT’S the greenhouse.  Like I was stupid or something.  Wanted to punch him in the face!

Ignaz, also feel sorry... cause I used to like him until I met the voice actor.  He did and said something that pissed me off.  Now every time I hear Ignaz I remember the actor...  and BTW.. the voice actor is a great professional!  Very good at his job... cause he is absolutely NOTHING like Ignaz.  He ACTS really really well.  👍. I just wish I never met him then I’d still like Ignaz.

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I’m just tired of people hating on Sylvain because all the complaints really boil down to is 

“Mysoginy bad therefore Sylvain is a bad character” which wow thanks for the very insightful and well thought out analysis of his character good job. I don’t mind y’all not liking the guy but the idea that a character needs to have “redeeming qualities” to be a “good character” is just wrong on so many levels. As I’ve said character development is overrated. I just hate this idea of dissmissing a character as “bad” solely based on the idea you personally don’t like them. Don’t dissmiss a character like that and call them “bad” or “poorly written” because you refuse to actually take the effort to understand the character and what they have to offer. It’s fine to not like a character but to dissmiss them as “bad” solely for that reason is woefully close minded if you ask me.

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4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m just tired of people hating on Sylvain because all the complaints really boil down to is 

“Mysoginy bad therefore Sylvain is a bad character” which wow thanks for the very insightful and well thought out analysis of his character good job. I don’t mind y’all not liking the guy but the idea that a character needs to have “redeeming qualities” to be a “good character” is just wrong on so many levels. As I’ve said character development is overrated. I just hate this idea of dissmissing a character as “bad” solely based on the idea you personally don’t like them. Don’t dissmiss a character like that and call them “bad” or “poorly written” because you refuse to actually take the effort to understand the character and what they have to offer. It’s fine to not like a character but to dissmiss them as “bad” solely for that reason is woefully close minded if you ask me.

I agree that Sylvain gets some unnecessary hate, yeah.

But I disagree that character development is overrated. Character development isn't EVERYTHING, but it still always helps. Some of the most beloved characters are so beloved because of their development. Take Zuko from Avatar for example. Or Vegeta from the Dragon Ball franchise. They're insanely popular among their respective franchise's fanbase because of how incredible their growth and development are. They do have one big thing in common, going from antagonist to hero, but still. They are perfect examples of how character development does wonders.

And for an example in FE, Jill. She's one of the most popular Tellius characters because of her growth.

Edited by Anacybele

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I agree that Sylvain gets some unnecessary hate, yeah.

But I disagree that character development is overrated. Character development isn't EVERYTHING, but it still always helps. Some of the most beloved characters are so beloved because of their development. Take Zuko from Avatar for example. Or Vegeta from the Dragon Ball franchise. They're insanely popular among their respective franchise's fanbase because of how incredible their growth and development are. They do have one big thing in common, going from antagonist to hero, but still. They are perfect examples of how character development does wonders.

You misunderstand me when I say character development is overrated. It’s not overrated because it’s bad. Far from it, in fact it’s quite the effective as a narrative tool for crafting unique and compelling character arcs and conflicts. No, I just think it’s overvalued as the be all end all of good character writing which is simply ignorant and dissmissive of the near endless amount of ways a story can be told.

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Just now, Ottservia said:

You misunderstand me when I say character development is overrated. It’s not overrated because it’s bad. Far from it, in fact it’s quite the effective as a narrative tool for crafting unique and compelling character arcs and conflicts. No, I just think it’s overvalued as the be all end all of good character writing which is simply ignorant and dissmissive of the near endless amount of ways a story can be told.

Ohhh. Okay then, that makes more sense.

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I would just like to say thank you to everyone who hates Catherine, for making me feel super special and unique for being damn near the only person who actually loves her. ❤️

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26 minutes ago, Rioma said:

WhaAAatT?!  How dare you hate on Raphael?!  I shall make challenge of the two of uz to the DeAth!..

 Every stupid 3h characters... are stupid cartoons.. at least Raphael is straight forward about and not pretending to have some depth... later disappointing you when you realize the writers suck...

  Hide contents

 Raphael actually had his parents murdered and is stressed about supporting his sister.  He knows he’s dumb and slow and the only thing going for him is his body.  But he’s always cheerful and optimistic!  ... so that happy clown you see him as is superficial.  Poor poor Raph... 😞

 

Raphael is the only stupid cartoons out of the 3h cast. There are others in other FEs, but 3H core characters actually have depth and nuances, except Raphael. He has a sad backstory... and nothing is ever made out of it "later disappointing you when you realize the writers suck" is exactly how feel about this!

Ok wait, I also hate Caspar, but i haven't looked at his support enough to say whether that's fair, maybe there's some glimmer of interest in there.

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31 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m just tired of people hating on Sylvain because all the complaints really boil down to is 

“Mysoginy bad therefore Sylvain is a bad character” which wow thanks for the very insightful and well thought out analysis of his character good job. I don’t mind y’all not liking the guy but the idea that a character needs to have “redeeming qualities” to be a “good character” is just wrong on so many levels. As I’ve said character development is overrated. I just hate this idea of dissmissing a character as “bad” solely based on the idea you personally don’t like them. Don’t dissmiss a character like that and call them “bad” or “poorly written” because you refuse to actually take the effort to understand the character and what they have to offer. It’s fine to not like a character but to dissmiss them as “bad” solely for that reason is woefully close minded if you ask me.

This, for any character really.

I'm quite fond of Sylvain as a character, I just dislike him as a person. There is a big difference. I would never remove him from Three Houses.

Only characters that truly disappoint me are the Slitherers. Remove them entirely or actually give them depth.

I don't dislike anyone else as characters, even if a decent amount are fairly shallow. Though there is certainly a handful that I would not get along with in person.

Edited by Slyfox

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34 minutes ago, Rioma said:

Cyril... poor guy... had a bad first impression and never liked him since.  Was at the greenhouse very early in game.  He said:  Looking for greenhouse?  There!  Looks like greenhouse, THAT’S the greenhouse.  Like I was stupid or something.  Wanted to punch him in the face!

Ironically when I heard this the first time I laughed my butt off and it’s one of the lines that made me like him.

15 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I would just like to say thank you to everyone who hates Catherine, for making me feel super special and unique for being damn near the only person who actually loves her. ❤️

You’re quite welcome!

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8 minutes ago, salinea said:

Ok wait, I also hate Caspar,

Now that’s understandable.  I find him obnoxious.  Lol

 Thing about FE characters is that they are hard hard HARD archetypes.  And there’s “good” reasons for it... it’s a game, dev is expensive, if we’re investing on a character, they each need to be remarkably different.  Also their personality needs to scream resonance with their unique ability.  So you end up with a cartoon cast of characters that together are all colorful and varied... but they are cartoons

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Dislike Sylvain all you wish, but this point is entirely false. He does eventually change.

Anyway, Felix is probably my least favorite. I cannot stand his attitude at all. The hatred for chivalry and the fact that he seems to just bash anyone who disagrees with his views. And for little good reason.

This...

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

This is false. Sylvain is right that many women would just want him for his Crest. Women with Crests, such as Ingrid and Mercedes, have been targeted for baby-making for their Crests as well. Ingrid's paralogue is actually all about that! Some jerk noble wants to marry her just because she has a Crest and you have to fight this guy's troops.

As for Mercedes, it's spoilers involving Jeritza, but she was targeted too.

And Fodlan's entire society revolves around these Crests. Sylvain's assumption is not baseless. He's wrong to assume ALL women would treat him this way, yes. But he can't know for sure which ones would do so until it actually happens and he doesn't want it to.

...and this. If you think Sylvain's nothing but an irredeemable misogynist, then you're ignoring a huge part of his character and like 90% of his supports too.

27 minutes ago, Jbunzie said:

Especially, something over an assumption that holds no water at all. He treats women as an object, a play thing and hurt them over the assumption that they’re only after his crests. It’s disgusting and I can’t understand people, especially other women stanning him, like respect yourself please and others as well. 

First off, nobody's "stanning" him. As far as I can see, everyone here's aware of his character flaws. Yes, Sylvain has some jaded views on women and initially makes poor choices because of that. But he grows as a person and realizes that he was wrong to think this way. He's also a loyal friend to his fellow Blue Lions, a true knight and a good-hearted person deep down. Sylvain may not be perfect, but he's far from the monster some people make him out to be.

And second, how in the hell does liking Sylvain, a fictional character, mean that women aren't respecting themselves? Honestly I think that's an unfair assumption and a little bit insulting even.

Anyway, my least favorites are Rhea, Felix and Gilbert. And that's all I'm gonna say since this topic looks like the Tragedy of Duscur waiting to happen.

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On the topic of Sylvain I do find him thoroughly unlikable. Sure, some woman might want him for his title and to make a crest baby. Okay.  Going out of his way to lead on, torment and discard any woman he sets his eyes on as some sort of premature revenge for an expected slight many likely weren't even going to make, and letting Ingrid deal with the fallout is still pretty vile though. And while Sylvain has tragedy in his backstory its notably a much lesser tragedy than his fellow Lions who's conducts aren't nearly as vile as Sylvain's. 

That said I do like Sylvain even if I don't think he's likable. He's a good character, just a good character who's an unbelievably petty asshole. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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7 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

And while Sylvain has tragedy in his backstory its notably a much lesser tragedy than his fellow Lions

I disagree with this too. Dedue and Dimitri have been through worse, sure. Arguably, Ashe has too. But the others? No way. Sylvain has had put up with being outright hated by his brother just because he EXISTS and his brother repeatedly tried to kill him. Miklan left him on a cold mountain to die and also shoved him down a well, and in both scenarios, Sylvain could've been lost/trapped for hours, maybe days. Then to top it all off, he witnesses his brother turn into a literal monster and his expression and dialogue indicate that he's pretty disturbed by it.

Edited by Anacybele

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14 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

And while Sylvain has tragedy in his backstory its notably a much lesser tragedy than his fellow Lions who's conducts aren't nearly as vile as Sylvain's. 

Are you seriously trying to compare trauma? That’s a little insensitive, don’t ya think? Oh I’m sorry different characters handle their mental hangups in their own ways. I didn’t know this was some kind of competition of “who suffered more”. I guess Sylvain should just suck it up then because he didn’t “suffer as much” as Dimitri or Felix

Edited by Ottservia

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20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree with this too. Dedue and Dimitri have been through worse, sure. Arguably, Ashe has too. But the others? No way. Sylvain has had put up with being outright hated by his brother just because he EXISTS and his brother repeatedly tried to kill him. Miklan left him on a cold mountain to die and also shoved him down a well, and in both scenarios, Sylvain could've been lost/trapped for hours, maybe days. Then to top it all off, he witnesses his brother turn into a literal monster and his expression and dialogue indicate that he's pretty disturbed by it.

Mercedes has bounced around from family to family, and her time with the Bartels was like Sylvain’s experience with Miklan. Her dad treated her as nothing but an object, and she had multiple brothers and sisters (iirc) that hated her for having a crest. At least Sylvain’s family aside from Miklan treated him like an heir to a house- Mercedes was a baby maker to her dad and a hated rival to everybody else but Emile and her mum. Considering Baron Bartels’ desire for a crest bearing heir, I imagine he has a lot of children who hate Mercedes’ guts.

EDIT: though as Ottservia pointed out above the level of trauma is only as important as how it affects them and how they choose to deal with it. Mercedes seems to be able to look back on it as a horrible time in her life but also focus on the positives in it, which is why, despite their comparable situations, Mercedes is the one taking the initiative to console and help Sylvain in their support. Similarly, while Felix’s trauma may not be as “bad” as Sylvain’s, their methods of dealing with it are as destructive as each other’s. 

Edited by Anathaco

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Stripper Hat. But I have never used her. It is a pure hatred feeling.

From the ones that I have used: Mercedes. God, how irritating is her fake voice! Reason enough to kill her as soon as possible.
(In contrast, I love Hapi precisely because of her lines and voice actress. Even though I have never played Shadows-whatever.)

Edited by starburst

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I wish I was earlier to this thread so this opinion would be original because: Catherine. She’s an obnoxious Rhea fan girl who literally says she would kill someone for not following the Seiros religion. Wtf Catherine? You think that would make your lady Rhea happy? Her only redeeming qualities are her design and her relationship with Shamir. Oh and her backstory is cool I guess. Edit: Lorenz and Catherine is also my favorite support chain in the game, so there’s that. I like the way Catherine talks to Lorenz, her views and overall what they discuss. It doesn’t make up for the rest of her character though, in my opinion.

But here is my actual hot take that’s gonna get me hate (sorry Twilitfalchion): Marianne is the worst character in three houses. Inherently, her archetype is fine enough I guess, but in execution she is nothing more than an annoying whiner with zero personality. Marianne apparently missed the go beyond our archetype club that all three houses characters except Raphael were invited too, but at least Raphael’s archetype is likable. All Marianne does is shove her trauma and sadness down everyone’s throats by constantly moping and it’s really annoying. And with the way she just throws it around, it’s like she’s constantly begging for pity. And that’s it, that’s her entire character, her personality is literally just “low self esteem”, the only other thing I can think of is that she likes animals and that’s not a personality trait. Just standing around whining plus zero personality easily makes her the worst character in my book, and I honestly don’t understand why people like her so much unless they can relate. And some people think she’s cute? Or she’s their S support choice?? How is someone who’s personality is just i—iM sAd attractive? Wouldn’t that relationship just be her dragging you down all the damn time? I just do not understand.

Edited by Sooks1016

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5 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

How is someone who’s personality is just i—iM sAd attractive? Wouldn’t that relationship just be her dragging you down all the damn time? I just do not understand.

Speaking as someone who suffers from severe self-loathing problems let me just say Marianne is honest to god a constant mood. I just want her to be happy

Edited by Ottservia

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36 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree with this too. Dedue and Dimitri have been through worse, sure. Arguably, Ashe has too. But the others? No way. Sylvain has had put up with being outright hated by his brother just because he EXISTS and his brother repeatedly tried to kill him. Miklan left him on a cold mountain to die and also shoved him down a well, and in both scenarios, Sylvain could've been lost/trapped for hours, maybe days. Then to top it all off, he witnesses his brother turn into a literal monster and his expression and dialogue indicate that he's pretty disturbed by it.

But I think that's just the thing. Sylvain and Miklan never cared for each other. No lost love there. Even if Sylvain is quite understanding about Miklan he doesn't have any fondness for the man. 

Meanwhile most other Blue Lions have to tackle with the death of family members who they did love. Sylvain had an unhappy childhood and a brother who hated him. Most other Blue Lions on the other hand have to tackle family members they were devoted too getting killed off. 

32 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Are you seriously trying to compare trauma? That’s a little insensitive, don’t ya think? Oh I’m sorry different characters handle their mental hangups in their own ways. I didn’t know this was some kind of competition of “who suffered more”. I guess Sylvain should just suck it up then because he didn’t “suffer as much” as Dimitri or Felix

Its more comparing the reactions to the trauma. Sylvain responding to it by deliberately trying to do harm while Ashe and Felix don't. And while Dimitri's far worse then Sylvain on his worst days he doesn't seem mentally able to handle himself while with Sylvain its a very willing choice to go out and do harm. And yes, in some sense Sylvain being more vile while having suffered less does carry some meaning. Not being able to properly handle yourself while people who are going through far more are handling themselves far better does reflect poorly on the one refusing to behave himself. 

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17 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its more comparing the reactions to the trauma. Sylvain responding to it by deliberately trying to do harm while Ashe and Felix don't. And while Dimitri's far worse then Sylvain on his worst days he doesn't seem mentally able to handle himself while with Sylvain its a very willing choice to go out and do harm. And yes, in some sense Sylvain being more vile while having suffered less does carry some meaning. Not being able to properly handle yourself while people who are going through far more are handling themselves far better does reflect poorly on the one refusing to behave himself. 

Okay but that doesn’t make it better. You’re still comparing trauma. What is everyone who doesn’t deal with their mental hang ups the exact way you find suitable to just a bad person then? I’m sorry but that’s essentially what you’re saying here. So are you saying that a my own feelings of self loathing and lashing out don’t matter because Billy down the street has it “worse” than I do but handles it better? I’m sorry but that’s just extremely insensitive. Do you realize how insensitive and emotionally damaging that can be to a person?

Edited by Ottservia

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5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Speaking as someone who suffers from severe self-loathing problems let me just say Marianne is honest to god a constant mood. I just want her to be happy

That’s true, and this is the only reason I understand people liking Marianne— well, the first part. I still don’t think relating to her or wanting her to be happy would make her a good character. Or likable. But I can understand the sentiment, since I hope you yourself can be happy. Stuff like that sucks, and I hope you’re doing alright.

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14 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Marianne is the worst character in three houses.

It’s comments like these that Marianne can’t get pass her depression.  X(

...erm... Marianne’s “character development” is on her Crit quotes... before and after time skip.  She’s the depressed girl who FINALLY snapped and kicked ass..

I love each time she crits.  Lol

Edited by Rioma

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5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Speaking as someone who suffers from severe self-loathing problems let me just say Marianne is honest to god a constant mood. I just want her to be happy

Yeah, I found her to be quite relatable and a character I felt incredibly sympathetic towards. And the beautifully confident person she becomes with the help of Byleth's encouragement is such a wonderful ending for her.

Like she says in their S-support: "It's unthinkable that someone who spent their entire life avoiding people could offer you a ring...But who I am now, it's all thanks to you. You've shown me a strength I didn't know I could possess. I wanted you to see how far I've come, and how much I've grown...I guess...I wanted you to see me show a little bravery."

Very sweet and heartwarming.

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