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Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity announced (NSW, Releases 11.20.2020)

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I could see Sidon, Yunobo, Riju, Tebah, and Kass all being playable in stages set 100 years later. I'm thinking a DLC expansion called "After Calamity" set between BotW and BotW2, that shows the New Champions and some other characters helping Link and Zelda battle Ganon's forces in the future while they try to rebuild Hyrule. Paya, Grante, and Kass could all join that adventure.

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4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I could see Sidon, Yunobo, Riju, Tebah, and Kass all being playable in stages set 100 years later. I'm thinking a DLC expansion called "After Calamity" set between BotW and BotW2, that shows the New Champions and some other characters helping Link and Zelda battle Ganon's forces in the future while they try to rebuild Hyrule. Paya, Grante, and Kass could all join that adventure.

I personally expect them to appear due to Egg related time travel shenanigans. Maybe its a bit like DW8 where you have a canon route and a more happy hypothetical ending. 

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I've proposed before that BotW2 could allow for a time travel-related "happy ending", based on the fact time travel has happened in the series before. (Heads-up: I get into some story stuff in the following spoiler.)

Spoiler

The theory revolves around Link and Zelda going after Ganoncorpse before the Calamity can manifest, for as long as Ganoncorpse is around the Calamity cannot truly be stopped. The Malice pouring forth from his body will just manifest into a new Calamity. Of course the Calamity manifests before Link and Zelda get to Ganoncorpse, and Ganoncorpse merges with his Calamity, absorbing the Guardians and transforming into Ancient Beast Ganon as a bigger, more powerful version of Dark Beast Ganon from BoTW that incorporates the Guardians' Ancient tech into its body. Effectively, Ganon becomes a Divine Beast himself. ABG produces tendrils that stab into the Divine Beasts, immobilizing them, and begin draining their power. Zelda and the Champions enter Ganon to find and destroy his core before he can finish draining the Beasts, or else he may become unstoppable.

Cue a final dungeon set in Ganon's new body where the Champions locate and destroy six Power Nodes that produce a barrier around the Core which prevents them from getting near. The heroes of course destroy the Nodes, lowering the barrier, and approach the Core only to be met by Ganondorf himself, who has used the energy absorbed from the Guardians to resurrect himself as a godlike cyborg empowered with the ability to use Runes, Guardian lasers, and two-handed weapons, dubbed Neo Ganondorf. Zelda, Mipha, Daruk, Urbosa, Revali, and Link engage Neo Ganondorf in a fierce battle, during which the Core is destroyed, causing ABG to shut down and cease draining the Divine Beasts. Ganondorf feels his godlike power draining away, and Link thrusts the Master Sword into Ganondorf, using the power of immobilization gained from BotW2 (you know, the glowy hand) to hold Ganondorf in place.

Zelda instructs the other four Champions to return to their Divine Beasts and to charge their weapons, aimed at Ganondorf. The Champions express concern that Link and Zelda will get killed, but they obey Zelda's command. The Divine Beasts take aim at Ganondorf, and charge their weapons. Ganondorf screams at Link and Zelda that all three of them are about to die. Zelda retorts that Ganondorf is about to die, this time hopefully for good. The golden power Ganondorf once commanded has long left him. The energy he stole from the Guardians is about to run out. And his body is soon to be purged of Malice and destroyed utterly. This time, he won't be coming back.

Ganondorf desperately tries to break free, but Link and Zelda hold him fast. Images of the past flash through their minds: the battle with Demise in Skyward Sword and the battles against Ganondorf and Ganon in Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures, Twilight Princess, A Link to the Past, the Oracles, A Link Between Worlds...and The Legend of Zelda, when Ganon was reduced to ash by a boy who claimed the Triforce of Power from his remains. Link and Zelda see additional visions: The Hero of the Sky and a maiden of Skyloft, a boy and a princess meeting in the castle gardens, the Hero of Winds and a pirate girl seeking a new world aboard a ship, the Hero of Twilight and a princess of Hyrule bidding farewell to the Twilight Princess, a boy escorting a princess out of Hyrule Castle's dungeons, a hero wielding the Rod of Seasons and the Harp of Ages, a boy and a princess speaking to their counterparts from another world...and a boy and a princess together holding the complete Triforce.

Zelda grabs on to Link and tells him to get ready, covering herself and Link in an orb of golden light. With heavy hearts, the Champions tell the Divine Beasts to fire. The beams converge upon Ganondorf, and his body is vaporized in a massive explosion that engulfs Ancient Beast Ganon itself, reducing it to a charred heap of scrap metal. When the dust settles, neither Ganondorf nor Link nor Zelda are anywhere to be found. King Rhoam and the Champions mourn the apparent death of their princess and hero. However, Purah notices some curious readings on the Sheikah Slate, and Impa appears strangely tranquil as well, as she has not sensed their spirits passing. Purah informs the mourners that Link and Zelda might not be dead at all - they might have traveled through time, as the Slate's picked up temporal activity. Zelda must have used her powers to save herself and Link by transporting themselves to another time. To when, they aren't sure, but both sisters have a hunch that they'll live long enough to find out. Mipha likely will as well, given the longevity of the Zora. Rhoam, Daruk, Urbosa, and Revali ask Purah to record messages to Link and Zelda in case they don't live long enough to see them again.

The Divine Beasts spent the last of their energy in their attack on Ganondorf, so they've ceased to function. Urbosa is the first to acknowledge that it may be for the best; they can be dangerous weapons in the wrong hands, and with their purpose fulfilled, they've earned the right to rest in peace. Robbie laments the fact Ganon absorbed all the Guardians, as now he has nothing to research. Purah reminds him that he can still research Ancient Weaponry, not that it's really necessary anymore. But maybe he can figure out a way to turn Ancient Weapons into Ancient Tools? Impa reminds everyone that the Yiga are still out there, and no doubt they'll be upset about the death of their master - those who haven't already deserted out of fear or guilt, anyway. So they can't afford to lower their guard just yet. But with Ganon out of the way, the Yiga won't be nearly as much of a threat. Hyrule's monsters should dwindle in number as well, now that they don't have a master to summon or revive them.

The King begins a long-term project to rebuild Hyrule, and plans to erect a monument commemorating Link, Zelda, and the Champions once the rebuilding is complete. Whenever Link and Zelda return, he wants Hyrule ready to welcome them back in pristine condition. Because he will not have any direct heirs until Zelda's return, he organizes a council to lead Hyrule after his passing until the princess and her knight returns. He invites Impa, Purah, Mipha, Daruk, Urbosa, and Revali to be part of that council. All accept save for Revali, who feels he is not suitable to be a leader. Watching Link and Zelda potentially sacrifice themselves has made him realize how selfish he's been, and he feels he belongs back in Rito Village as its protector. He recommends the Rito chief be invited in his place, for they are far wiser than he. Urbosa replies that, in acknowledging the merits of another, Revali is demonstrating wisdom of his own - not to mention humility and maturity.

Daruk asks Mipha what she will do about her feelings for Link. Mipha replies that there are plenty of fish in the sea, and the one she wanted has already been caught. She resolves to be happy for Link and Zelda, and will try to open her heart to someone new in time. Daruk encourages her, and suggests a yearly ceremony to celebrate the Champions' victory, with lots of music, dancing, and feasting. One day, maybe Link and Zelda will return during the ceremony. Mipha vows to have the Zora record the events so that none may forget the princess and her knight. Revali declares that the Rito shall write a song honoring them. Rhoam decrees that it shall become a new legend...

The Legend of Zelda!

Cue credits, during which we see Hyrule in the new timeline rebuilding and recovering from the war, and throwing the first annual Champions' Ceremony.

100 years later...

Hyrule is prosperous under a new council, consisting of the now-elderly Impa, an ever-youthful Purah, Queen Mipha, Bludo, Makeela Riju, and Kaneli. Paya, Robbie, Jerrin, Symin, Sidon, Yunobo, Buliara, and Teba are also in attendance, as guests or bodyguards. The group has gathered in front of the Champions' Monument to discuss preparations for the 100th annual Champion's Ceremony. Being a milestone, they want to make sure it's extra special. An orb of golden light appears in front of them and dissipates, revealing a princess embracing her knight.

The End?

So yeah, that's my idea of how an "After Calamity" DLC expansion could go down. I'm thinking the ending of BotW2 (or at least, a secret ending) leads into the DLC. AoC serves as the beginning of the whole arc while "After Calamity" serves as the end of it. Room is left open to a future sequel set in a more prosperous future, though they'll have to come up with a new antagonist.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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Is there any more of the game besides the first two missions and the killing Lizalfos mini-mission in the demo? It looks as though I did it all, but I just want to be sure.

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9 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Is there any more of the game besides the first two missions and the killing Lizalfos mini-mission in the demo? It looks as though I did it all, but I just want to be sure.

I could swear there were a few bonus missions involving the bomb rune.

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3 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Thanks! I'll go and see if I can find them.

Gotta clear out some of the sidequests that require materials.

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The only one I have left is the one that needs two types of plants, so I guess I'll have to replay Chapter 1. Thanks again.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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13 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

The only one I have left is the one that needs two types of plants, so I guess I'll have to replay Chapter 1. Thanks again.

That’s what I haven’t done because I haven’t found anything that drops those two.

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I have yet to play the demo, but I have to say, regarding the nature of Egg Guardian and how it's apparently from the future, I have just one thing to say: why?!

What's with this trend in recent games of advertising themselves as telling a particular story in a series, only to then go, "Fooled you! We're throwing in time travel!" Final Fantasy 7 Remake did it with the extremely needless "enforcing the timeline" ghosts known as the Arbiters of Fate when fans just wanted an adaptation expansion of the original game, and now this. Why can't the game just give me the prologue story it said it was going to give me? Why do I now have to think about whether or not it's actually showing me the events of the calamity?

I didn't get Hyrule Warriors and I'm not interested in getting it now; I got hyped for this game because they said it was going to be the story of the calamity! But if it's involving time travel, then it isn't showing me the events of the calamity! This is the same problem as the Temporal Cold War nonsense in Star Trek Enterprise! I wanted to see the early days of Star Fleet exploring the galaxy and meeting factions like the Klingons for the first time; time-travel nonsense means that's not the story it said I was going to be given!

Whatever people may think of the Star Wars Prequels, at least they gave what they said they would give: the fall of the Jedi Order, the rise of Palpatine and the Empire, how Anakin became Darth Vader, etc. Imagine if a bunch of time travel nonsense suddenly got thrown into the prequel trilogy out of nowhere?

Perhaps one of the worst things about it is that it's never advertised. It's like the writers know that it's a massive can of worms that people would rather not see, and so they hide it. Actually, no; that's not the worst thing. The worst thing about it is that it begs the question: to what end? You're changing the course of the story so that it's no longer the unaltered story, and for what? In Enterprise, it was for antagonists like the Suliban and the Xindi, which were unnecessary as there were plenty of potential antagonists they could've used. The Arbiters of Fate in FF7Remake make it that the story is consciously trying to alter itself as little as possible, but so many cases of them interfering are unnecessary as the course of events could've stayed consistent without them, and what you're left with are a bunch of ghost-like creatures that are extremely out-of-place and would be more fitting in a Kingdom Hearts game than FF7, and their presence overcomplicates the story and makes messy what once was straightforward. It's no longer an expansion of FF7's story, but some weird timeline story. 

I don't want to experience a time travel story; I want to experience the calamity! I want to experience the siege of Akkala Citadel! I want to experience a weary and beleaguered Link becoming surrounded and overwhelmed by Guardians; protecting Zelda from them while furiously fighting back with just his Master Sword! How am I supposed to get that experience with time-travel involved? How am I supposed to have that feeling of experiencing the Calamity if part of me could very well be thinking, "I could go for the time-travel good ending that exists for some reason; I'm basically killing the characters rather than experiencing their tragic story". It cheapens it, it undermines it. 

I know that I could easily be overreacting, since it's just an Egg Guardian, but I've been through this before (as shown by the examples I used) and I recognize warning signs.

I don't know; what do you guys think? Am I overreacting? Is it okay to be a bit apprehensive about this?

Edited by vanguard333

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9 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I don't know; what do you guys think? Am I overreacting? Is it okay to be a bit apprehensive about this?

(I read everything. Just quoting this to save space)

You might be overreacting a little, but I think your fears are fair, and I share some of the same concerns. I'm still getting the game, but when I saw the mini guardian travel back in time, I said "Uh oh," worried about the implications of such a choice.

But it could still be that this is the story of the calamity as it should be and will directly lead to what happens in Breath of the Wild. We don't know yet, for better or worse. The time travel stuff might just be unique to this story but doesn't ultimately change the outcome, or it could be a setup for BotW 2 (which could also be problematic, but that's a whole other discussion).

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4 minutes ago, Florete said:

(I read everything. Just quoting this to save space)

You might be overreacting a little, but I think your fears are fair, and I share some of the same concerns. I'm still getting the game, but when I saw the mini guardian travel back in time, I said "Uh oh," worried about the implications of such a choice.

But it could still be that this is the story of the calamity as it should be and will directly lead to what happens in Breath of the Wild. We don't know yet, for better or worse. The time travel stuff might just be unique to this story but doesn't ultimately change the outcome, or it could be a setup for BotW 2 (which could also be problematic, but that's a whole other discussion).

Thanks. 

I suppose. If only there was consistent precedent for how time travel effects Zelda, but The Legend of Zelda is all over the place when it comes to time travel. In Ocarina of Time alone, learning the Song of Storms/Draining the well and meeting Nabooru are obvious examples of closed time loops (where the act of going back in time causes events to occur as they originally did, resulting in a stable timeline: think Terminator 1 where Kyle Reese going back in time causes the birth of John Connor, and the birth of John Connor causes Kyle Reese going back in time), but then the ending of the game causes three timelines: the adult timeline, the child timeline and the fallen timeline.

So who knows what the egg will cause. But, if it does play out like the Song of Storms example, then why have the egg go back in time at all? The Song of Storms thing in Ocarina of Time was a story puzzle: you had to figure out to learn the song as an adult and go back in time to play it inside the windmill as a kid, while the egg going back in time causing the very events that it seeks to prevent adds nothing. 

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30 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I know that I could easily be overreacting, since it's just an Egg Guardian, but I've been through this before (as shown by the examples I used) and I recognize warning signs.

I don't know; what do you guys think? Am I overreacting? Is it okay to be a bit apprehensive about this?

Speaking for myself, I actually became more interested in the narrative now that I didn't know how the game ends. You could say that the story now has to end in a good way, but I wouldn't be so quick to come to that conclusion because some of the Calamity escaped through time alongside the Egg Guardian. So now both sides of the conflict are armed with knowledge from the future, and the war has started earlier. I'm definitely not expecting them to end Age of Calamity on a bad ending, but I think raising the stakes like this helps us believe that the possibility is still there. Maybe even a 50/50. And it helps them elevate a character like Zelda to warrior status when in Breath of the Wild's original narrative she did nothing like this until Link was dying in her arms. She may be a badass now, but in terms of the narrative she still needs to awaken that power inside of her to win against Ganon and the time scale against his return is closing even faster. It's good drama.

But I can understand how this game can be seen as false advertising, even if its title isn't something as blatantly false as "Final Fantasy 7 Remake" (I would have called it Final Fantasy 7: Enter the Nomuraverse). Personally I'd call Age of Calamity Breath of the Wild: The Pre-Sequel but I'd doubt that would catch on.  I normally scoff at the suggestion of "they should do Age of Calamity, but for Three Houses", but damnit Byleth can be the egg guardian couldn't he? He just awakens spontaneously to the power of turning back time several years. I had the same notion of "this is how they'll do the Revelations DLC" back when the game had come out. And it would probably be a better told story than the game it's based on, ugh. Don't make me want this.

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@Glennstavos I understood your point until right about the middle of the last paragraph. Everything after "pre-sequel" I don't understand even though I've played Fates and Revelations. Could you please clarify what you were meaning (not what you were referencing; what you were meaning)?

I understand your point about now not knowing how it'll end, but the appeal of a prequel is that you know how things end, but you don't know how the pieces all moved into place, and that was certainly what appealed to me when Age of Calamity got announced: being able to experience the the fall of Hyrule and the battles that took place. Now, with time travel involved, I can't really experience that, as I won't be experiencing what happened; I'll be experiencing a version that was altered by wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey (and before anyone asks, I have no idea where that line is from). 

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31 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

@Glennstavos I understood your point until right about the middle of the last paragraph. Everything after "pre-sequel" I don't understand even though I've played Fates and Revelations. Could you please clarify what you were meaning (not what you were referencing; what you were meaning)?

 

A pre-sequel is a made up term, only ever used in Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel. The way they define it is "it's just a prequel to the sequel", that sequel already having existed in the form of Borderlands 2. Breath of the Wild 2 is not a game that is currently out, but I feel like Age of Calamity probably began it's development at the same time, if not after BotW2, and has the secondary objective of setting up plot elements that will be pertinent in BotW2. I don't have any proof of this, it's just a feeling I'm getting.

Quote

I understand your point about now not knowing how it'll end, but the appeal of a prequel is that you know how things end, but you don't know how the pieces all moved into place, and that was certainly what appealed to me when Age of Calamity got announced: being able to experience the the fall of Hyrule and the battles that took place. Now, with time travel involved, I can't really experience that, as I won't be experiencing what happened; I'll be experiencing a version that was altered by wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey (and before anyone asks, I have no idea where that line is from). 

Well the way this story was presented in BotW1, there wasn't any real mystery. Most of the visions took place before the war. And the result of the war was staring at you on the horizon in the form of Hyrule castle. From the feel of those cutscenes, it felt like the climactic battle was a slaughter, with all four champions falling in battle to unforeseen circumstances and Zelda only awakening to her power in time to halt the Calamity - not defeat it. I'm sorry to hear that is the version of the story you were hoping for. Because the best you can hope for is that the story they do tell happens to be so inventive that it changes your mind about the time travel shenanigans.

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27 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

A pre-sequel is a made up term, only ever used in Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel. The way they define it is "it's just a prequel to the sequel", that sequel already having existed in the form of Borderlands 2. Breath of the Wild 2 is not a game that is currently out, but I feel like Age of Calamity probably began it's development at the same time, if not after BotW2, and has the secondary objective of setting up plot elements that will be pertinent in BotW2. I don't have any proof of this, it's just a feeling I'm getting.

I didn't mean the part where you said "pre-sequel"; I meant all the stuff you said after it; the stuff where you started referencing Byleth and Revelations. 

 

28 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Well the way this story was presented in BotW1, there wasn't any real mystery. Most of the visions took place before the war. And the result of the war was staring at you on the horizon in the form of Hyrule castle. From the feel of those cutscenes, it felt like the climactic battle was a slaughter, with all four champions falling in battle to unforeseen circumstances and Zelda only awakening to her power in time to halt the Calamity - not defeat it. I'm sorry to hear that is the version of the story you were hoping for. Because the best you can hope for is that the story they do tell happens to be so inventive that it changes your mind about the time travel shenanigans.

Those visions gave us indications of things like monster attacks, the Yiga Clan already scheming (like their failed attempt to assassinate Zelda), and Link struggling to defend Zelda while fleeing from and fighting off countless guardians. Plus, we know that a massive siege happened at Akkala Citadel and that it fell.

Plus, I wanted to see them expand on the different details: stuff like the different battles, Master Kohga and the mysterious hooded figure that I think might be Twinrova are all interesting additions, and the egg guardian seemed like an interesting addition to me before it turned out to be a time traveler. 

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13 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

*snip*

I get the feeling BotW’s calamity is more of a “fated” thing, and that Eggy’s just going to suffer an eternal loop it can’t escape from while the rest of time itself moves on. You know, for more drama and sads.

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6 minutes ago, Dai said:

I get the feeling BotW’s calamity is more of a “fated” thing, and that Eggy’s just going to suffer an eternal loop it can’t escape from while the rest of time itself moves on. You know, for more drama and sads.

To be clear, do you mean something like a closed time loop (like the Ocarina of Time draining the well example)? Or do you mean something more like Emmeryn's death in Awakening?

If the former, I suppose that would cause a bit of extra drama and feels, but then I'd have to ask why make it a time traveler? I'm sure just as much drama and sadness would come from it being just a cool team pet that gets destroyed, corrupted, or perhaps most heartbreaking of all: it survives only to find everyone gone and doesn't learn about Link being sealed away in the shrine of resurrection (hence it not appearing in BOTW). 

If the latter, I suppose it wouldn't change the calamity itself, but there'd always be the question of how much the guardian's presence alters the events leading up to it. 

Edited by vanguard333

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3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

To be clear, do you mean something like a closed time loop (like the Ocarina of Time draining the well example)? Or do you mean something more like Emmeryn's death in Awakening?

If the former, I suppose that would cause a bit of extra drama and feels, but then I'd have to ask why make it a time traveler? I'm sure just as much drama and sadness would come from it being just a cool team pet that gets destroyed, corrupted, or perhaps most heartbreaking of all: it survives only to find everyone gone and doesn't learn about Link being sealed away in the shrine of resurrection (hence it not appearing in BOTW). 

If the latter, I suppose it wouldn't change the calamity itself, but there'd always be the question of how much the guardian's presence alters the events leading up to it. 

I guess the well? In it, I was thinking more like the protagonist’s death in Shadow of Destiny/Memories, except in Eggy’s case, he won’t ever be able to find the Golden solution that allows victory over Calamity Ganon. Just an endless loop of failure.

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1 minute ago, Dai said:

I guess the well? In it, I was thinking more like the protagonist’s death in Shadow of Destiny/Memories, except in Eggy’s case, he won’t ever be able to find the Golden solution that allows victory over Calamity Ganon. Just an endless loop of failure.

I've never heard of Shadow of Destiny/Memories, but I think now I see what you're saying: the egg keeps going back in time again and again but it always plays out exactly the same way. I suppose that could work. I just would hope that we only have to go through one loop and it wouldn't be like the second half of Bravely Default: going through an alternate version of the same thing over and over again. 

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8 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I've never heard of Shadow of Destiny/Memories, but I think now I see what you're saying: the egg keeps going back in time again and again but it always plays out exactly the same way. I suppose that could work. I just would hope that we only have to go through one loop and it wouldn't be like the second half of Bravely Default: going through an alternate version of the same thing over and over again. 

Nah, they’ll only play us out the scenario once. I still fully expect a Crisis Core-esque downer ending regardless.

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51 minutes ago, Dai said:

Nah, they’ll only play us out the scenario once. I still fully expect a Crisis Core-esque downer ending regardless.

I suspect it will be like DW8. If you fulfil certain Egg related objectives you unlock a hypothetical route where you change the future. If you don't then you get the bad but canonical ending. 

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I suspect it will be like DW8. If you fulfil certain Egg related objectives you unlock a hypothetical route where you change the future. If you don't then you get the bad but canonical ending. 

I hope not. I want to experience the calamity and the fall of Hyrule, feel sorrow when the champions die, feel Link's desperation as he tries to protect Zelda from the corrupted guardians, etc. I want to think, "Such a sad story, but at least we know Link will return 100 years later", not, "I wonder if the game would tell me: 'What; you didn't try to change the future and give everyone a happier ending? You monster! Their deaths are on your hands now!'" The former story would hit me in the feels, the latter would just irritate me. 

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On 11/4/2020 at 12:59 AM, vanguard333 said:

I have yet to play the demo, but I have to say, regarding the nature of Egg Guardian and how it's apparently from the future, I have just one thing to say: why?!

What's with this trend in recent games of advertising themselves as telling a particular story in a series, only to then go, "Fooled you! We're throwing in time travel!" Final Fantasy 7 Remake did it with the extremely needless "enforcing the timeline" ghosts known as the Arbiters of Fate when fans just wanted an adaptation expansion of the original game, and now this. Why can't the game just give me the prologue story it said it was going to give me? Why do I now have to think about whether or not it's actually showing me the events of the calamity?

So far I'm a little bit skeptical of Egg and the weird timeline ghosts alike. Its not really what I want but I'm also open to being pleasantly surprised by it. Sometimes you don't know what you want until you get it, so its not always bad if a dev deviates from the idea everyone was expected. It all hinges if the changes turn out good or not. 

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So far I'm a little bit skeptical of Egg and the weird timeline ghosts alike. Its not really what I want but I'm also open to being pleasantly surprised by it. Sometimes you don't know what you want until you get it, so its not always bad if a dev deviates from the idea everyone was expected. It all hinges if the changes turn out good or not. 

I suppose, but could they at least be upfront about it? That way I'm not getting interesting in something only to then feel ripped off? At least Nintendo revealed the time travel in the demo (i.e. before release), but they still basically announced this game as a prologue that would allow the players to experience the Calamity, which blatantly isn't true if there's time travel changing what happened. 

As for FF7R, I should probably stress at this point that I am not a fan of Final Fantasy; I am a complete newcomer to the series, and I bought FF7R because it looked really interesting and because I thought that a modern remake of the most famous game in the series would be a good starting point for me. To be fair, 90% of what I've played so far has done exactly that, but those are all parts that don't involve the timeline ghosts. Every time the timeline ghosts do appear, they make things so meta and convoluted that, had I not been aware of a lot of major events of the original game through pop-cultural osmosis, I would definitely have felt alienated, and I definitely would've been wondering what was even going on (and not in a good way).

As I pointed out with my Star Trek Enterprise example, TV and movies already went through this fad of unnecessarily throwing in time travel, and it's an idea that should've been burned to the ground and never spoken of again; not one that gets introduced to the games industry more than ten years later. 

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