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Advice for Falcon Knight Corrin? [FE Newbie]


LJ_Reflet
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I apologize if something like this has been asked before, but I'm really having a hard time finding any type of advice on a Falcon Knight build Corrin haha.

I'm still pretty new to FE as a series, and I'm just about halfway through my 4th playthrough of Three Houses, and I was gonna start Fates as soon as I'm done with that.

I really like how Fates removed the gender lock for (most of) the classes and wanted to utilize Corrin as a Falcon Knight. I know it's a pretty supportive class rather than offensive in Fates, but how would I go about building Corrin as one? Which boon/bane should I go for?

I was thinking maybe +Str/-Res, but I kind of wanted to capitalize on speed.

Also, how bad would I be messing up Ryoma if I decided to class him as a Falcon Knight instead of a sword class? LOL 😂

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To start have these:

https://zekareisoujin.github.io/FEFatesStatCalc/ (average stats calculator)

https://soapy4159.github.io/ferevpairings/ (growth/max stats/pair up bonuses)

Are you playing Birthright? I think STR boon and LCK bane would fit best – Luck is mostly irrelevant and Peg/Falc Knights are naturally fast but also weak, hence the STR boon. Note that       -Res penalises Mag/Spd/Res whereas -Lck penalises STR/MAG/LCK and you get extra STR via your boon (the SPD difference is minor though). As a talent Pegasus Knight.

Are you planning on female or male Corrin? If male, you might want to look into marrying either Hinoka or Oboro – you should get Spear Fighter as Partner class which would net you Seal Def/Spd and in the lategame Lancefaire.

Falcon Knight Ryoma sounds terrible in every aspect that isn´t Mov and Spd.

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Ahhh this is so helpful, thanks so much!

Yeah, I’m starting off with Birthright then Conquest, then Revelations. Would the luck bane affect my crit rate? I really enjoy being/having a crit machine, but that’s just a small detail haha. It did seem as if luck bane was the most recommended for any class from what I’ve seen.

I plan on being male Corrin, which is why I’m so excited to be a Pegasus Knight haha.

and I kinda figured it’d be a terrible idea to have Falcon Knight Ryoma, I just thought it’d be kinda neat to utilize every single possible male Falcon Knight in the game 😂 But Subaki and Shigure will be more than enough

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Yeah Luck ties into Crit/Crit Avoid – the major part of Crit is Skill though (I think).

If you want a crit machine you could take Fighter/Berserker line as talent (that´s more for Rinkah though). Marry Rinkah reclass/promote into Oni Chieftain from LV. 3-5 and pick up Death Blow (+20 crit on attack) and A-Rank Subaki to get Pegasus/Falcon Knight (Oni Chieftain is a promoted class). That also allows for Berserker Rinkah with Deathblow – innate class bonus of +20crit and +20crit form Deathblow and +25crit from Killer Axe (not sure if available on Birthright). I´m generally not so sure which Killer weapons are available on Birthright if any are at all.

Alternatively take Oni as talent and skip marrying Rinkah and reach bro-hood with Subaki for Peg/Falc Knight.

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56 minutes ago, kia_kula said:

Would the luck bane affect my crit rate? I really enjoy being/having a crit machine, but that’s just a small detail haha. It did seem as if luck bane was the most recommended for any class from what I’ve seen.

It does not, but it does mean your crit evade will be shit, which means you'll likely be risking random game overs because a grunt got a crit in.

56 minutes ago, kia_kula said:

Subaki and Shigure will be more than enough

Spoiler alert: Subaki sucks.

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2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Yeah Luck ties into Crit/Crit Avoid – the major part of Crit is Skill though (I think).

If you want a crit machine you could take Fighter/Berserker line as talent (that´s more for Rinkah though). Marry Rinkah reclass/promote into Oni Chieftain from LV. 3-5 and pick up Death Blow (+20 crit on attack) and A-Rank Subaki to get Pegasus/Falcon Knight (Oni Chieftain is a promoted class). That also allows for Berserker Rinkah with Deathblow – innate class bonus of +20crit and +20crit form Deathblow and +25crit from Killer Axe (not sure if available on Birthright). I´m generally not so sure which Killer weapons are available on Birthright if any are at all.

Alternatively take Oni as talent and skip marrying Rinkah and reach bro-hood with Subaki for Peg/Falc Knight.

This definitely sounds like a build I'd enjoy on the battlefield, I might have to give this a shot! Albeit, a little more extra work to get into Falcon Knight, but the extra crits would be pretty satisfying haha

 

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Spoiler alert: Subaki sucks.

I--...yeah 😂 I read a lot about him LOL. I mean, from what I've read, it seems pretty mixed, like some people found him to perform pretty well as a tank, but some were really upset with his terrible growths. I'm honestly just in it for the novelty 😂

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4 hours ago, kia_kula said:

I--...yeah 😂 I read a lot about him LOL. I mean, from what I've read, it seems pretty mixed, like some people found him to perform pretty well as a tank, but some were really upset with his terrible growths. I'm honestly just in it for the novelty 😂

To be fair, he can tank. But other than that, he's completely inept in combat, as he lacks the strength to damage enemies and the speed to double them (Darting Blow fixes this, but only once a turn; that said, even with it odds are he'll be too slow to double anyway, except for generals, which he'll be lucky to scratch).

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That’s fair, honestly looking at his stats, it doesn’t seem impressive, which is upsetting since he has the novelty of being the first male Pegasus Knight haha. If he doesn’t perform well for me, I’ll just bench him in place of Shigure later, who looks more promising

Also another question (I apologize for the amount of questions 😭), but how does Kinshi Knight fare in comparison to Falcon Knight?

Bows have always been my favorite weapon type in any kind of game, but I haven’t heard too many good things about Kinshi Knight.

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6 hours ago, kia_kula said:

Also another question (I apologize for the amount of questions 😭), but how does Kinshi Knight fare in comparison to Falcon Knight?

Bows have always been my favorite weapon type in any kind of game, but I haven’t heard too many good things about Kinshi Knight.

Ehh, not sure about Kinshis v Falcon Knight but in Birthright you get one Kinshi prepromote – Reina and she should be a competent unit no matter what. Not sure if she falls off in the lategame.

As for building a Knishi Knight any member of the Archer line should be sufficient – maybe excepting Setsuna due to her lack of Str. Keep in mind the Archer Line Skills here – Quick Draw at Lv. 10, Certain Blow at Lv. 5 and Bowfaire at Lv. 15 from Sniper. I´m not sure whether or not an Archer reclassed to Kinshi would get the Peg Knight skills – Spd +2 and more importantly Darting Blow.

As I am looking through characters to recommend my eye lands on Takumi – who has both Archer and Spear Fighter which means many great skills to be had.

Alternatively, Hinoka should perform quite well – keep in mind she will have E bow rank. You could also get her Lancefaire if you want her to get up close and dirty.

Oh yeah, Mozu.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So, I'm on chapter 25 on my current playthrough and here's how it went as Falcon Knight Corrin: 

This experience has definitely been a snowball experience and my biggest obstacle was strength over anything else. In the beginning, oh man, I STRUGGLED. I decided to go +Speed so that I could dodge tank and consistently double, but I found that the game's RNG was not as friendly as Three Houses as enemies would frequently hit me even at a 35% even /15%/ hit rate. A 15-35% hit chance was pretty much a guaranteed dodge in 3H. Or maybe I'm just unlucky? LOL.

But in the beginning, my strength took a hit as soon as I reclassed into Sky Knight and it was pretty bad. Before reclassing, I had 13 strength as a Nohr Prince at level 10--pretty decent, I could ORKO mostly everything. But then it shot down to 9 strength when I switched to Sky Knight and after losing access to Yato. Yeah, I was doubling, but 5x2 damage is not killing anything LOL. At that point, both Subaki and Hinoka were hitting way harder than I was and I couldn't reliably kill. I didn't even get a single strength level up until lvl 13, and I was so desperate for extra damage that I actually save-scummed the next few levels just so I could build my damage output. Azura got more strength points than I did LOL--not even joking. I knew Pegasus Knights were low on strength, but dang, I didn't realize it was that bad LOL. I had to take the few energy drops you get because I wanted my main unit to be the /main/ unit, you know? LOL.

Thankfully, it started to improve as the game progressed, with the right weapons (forged) and pair-ups and better levels. Silas' pair-up bonuses were my biggest help. And thank SOTHIS that Master Seal-ing to Falcon Knight gave me an extra +2 in strength. In the mid-game, I was finally able to consistently ORKO and double and I finally surpassed my other fellow Pegasus Knights LOL. In the end, I was doubling 35+ with an Iron Naginata+3, which was such a relief from the beginning.

I decided to pick-up Spear Master from Shiro (I just wanted a male-male thing going on, okay? LOL), so I grinded a little bit to get Lancefaire to help my damage output. Lancefaire is a late-game skill anyway, so it didn't feel late achieving it.

I felt like I regretted doing +Speed over +Strength, but I'm kinda glad I did speed cause my Corrin/Kamui has over 40 speed now. I even went online to try and seize a castle for some skills, and their Corrin managed to trigger Astra. But only hit me twice LOL. But like I said, most of the time the RNG is not in my favor HAHA.

And last, Subaki has actually been fairly competent in my playthrough, but to be fair, I did baby him quite a bit and even picked up Lancefaire online. His saving grace was Saizo's pair-up bonus and that I got lucky finding multiples of his weapon, Subaki's Pike--which is actually really REALLY broken when forged.

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3 hours ago, Tenma said:

 I decided to go +Speed so that I could dodge tank and consistently double, but I found that the game's RNG was not as friendly as Three Houses as enemies would frequently hit me even at a 35% even /15%/ hit rate. A 15-35% hit chance was pretty much a guaranteed dodge in 3H. Or maybe I'm just unlucky? LOL.

Oddly enough it is due to the different ways the Random Numbers are lying to you. Three houses uses a 2RN system, which means the actual odd of hitting are skewed heavily towards the extremes (its the same system as the GBA games: https://serenesforest.net/general/true-hit/ ), whereas Fates uses a system that basically uses 1 RN in hits below 50% (so that 35% actually means 35% where roughly 1 out of every 3 attacks will hit, and that 15% is between 1 in every 6-7 hits will hit), and while Fates does skew the hit values above 50%, its not as extremely as the 2RN system.

 

3 hours ago, Tenma said:

Azura got more strength points than I did LOL--not even joking.

Azura actually has one of the highest personal strength growths in the game, and would actually have a higher strength growth than the Corrin described.

 

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3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Oddly enough it is due to the different ways the Random Numbers are lying to you. Three houses uses a 2RN system, which means the actual odd of hitting are skewed heavily towards the extremes (its the same system as the GBA games: https://serenesforest.net/general/true-hit/ ), whereas Fates uses a system that basically uses 1 RN in hits below 50% (so that 35% actually means 35% where roughly 1 out of every 3 attacks will hit, and that 15% is between 1 in every 6-7 hits will hit), and while Fates does skew the hit values above 50%, its not as extremely as the 2RN system.

This actually makes so much more sense. Three Houses is my first FE game, so a lot of my expectations of Fates were based off of 3H haha. I was so used to throwing in my best dodge tank in the middle of a danger zone to aggro enemies in 3H, but that tactic lead to the worst results in Fates and I couldn't understand why, but I guess now I do LOL. The amount of math in this a is a huge headache.

Quote

Azura actually has one of the highest personal strength growths in the game, and would actually have a higher strength growth than the Corrin described.

You know, I have no idea why I never looked her stats up (probably because I only use her to sing), but I just did and I'm really surprised but I believe it since she undoubtedly has more strength than my Corrin. Right now, my Azura has 24 strength at level 30 and my Corrin has 26 at level 18 post-Master Seal. So proportionately, she has more strength. Once again because of 3H, my expectations of what a dancer was (or in Azura's case, songstress) was supposed to be a weaker unit that shouldn't see combat, but her stats say she should be really efficient on handling her own. I always strayed her away from combat tho, so her weapon ranks never built up and I couldn't equip more than a brass Naginata on her haha.

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On 10/22/2020 at 4:57 AM, Tenma said:

This actually makes so much more sense. Three Houses is my first FE game, so a lot of my expectations of Fates were based off of 3H haha.

If anything, Fates's percentages are truer, more real, which lets you assess situations more faithfully.

 

On 10/22/2020 at 4:57 AM, Tenma said:

You know, I have no idea why I never looked her stats up (probably because I only use her to sing), but I just did and I'm really surprised but I believe it since she undoubtedly has more strength than my Corrin.

Even as a Pop Star, Azura has great Strength, Speed and Skill, and she is actually an excellent physical Player-Phase unit, like Sniper or Berserker. She lands critical hits like crazy and has the growths to one-hit many enemies (and to one-round them all.) She is made of paper, but Defence and HP are basically irrelevant on Player-Phase units, for a 1-HP unit hits as hard as a 45-HP one, and they should always wipe screens.
Azura's growths are so good that her children are great too. Sophie, Soleil, Nina, Velouria... they all are powerful with Smurfette as their mama.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/23/2020 at 1:16 PM, starburst said:

Even as a Pop Star, Azura has great Strength, Speed and Skill, and she is actually an excellent physical Player-Phase unit, like Sniper or Berserker. She lands critical hits like crazy and has the growths to one-hit many enemies (and to one-round them all.) She is made of paper, but Defence and HP are basically irrelevant on Player-Phase units, for a 1-HP unit hits as hard as a 45-HP one, and they should always wipe screens.

Since unfortunately 1-2 Range weapons in Fates are kinda ehhh, Bows or Tomes would definitely be the better option for her, probably Archer > Kinshi (Lv 10 promo Peg > Kinshi actually could work too). I do also like Witch!Azura, since Witch makes almost anyone good tbh, and for being able to flip back later and be a warping Dancer, although that depends on your stance on using DLC, even the free stuff.

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On 10/23/2020 at 3:16 PM, starburst said:

Even as a Pop Star, Azura has great Strength, Speed and Skill, and she is actually an excellent physical Player-Phase unit, like Sniper or Berserker. She lands critical hits like crazy and has the growths to one-hit many enemies (and to one-round them all.) She is made of paper, but Defence and HP are basically irrelevant on Player-Phase units, for a 1-HP unit hits as hard as a 45-HP one, and they should always wipe screens.

The problem I have with this is that if they don't one shot - and I generally find one-shots a rarity outside of either using weapons that are effective against the enemy you're attacking or critical hits, which are unreliable - they're likely to get heavily dented or even defeated (and in Azura's case, it's more likely than not gonna be the latter) if the RNG decides to shove its middle finger up your ass.

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59 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem I have with this is that if they don't one shot - and I generally find one-shots a rarity outside of either using weapons that are effective against the enemy you're attacking or critical hits, which are unreliable - they're likely to get heavily dented or even defeated (and in Azura's case, it's more likely than not gonna be the latter) if the RNG decides to shove its middle finger up your ass.

^ Definitely gonna agree with this actually, one shotting is extremely difficult to do normally, hence why I think, if you are going to go for offensive Azura, anything with reliable range is way better than Lance/Axe. Archer and Ninja (although their str cap is limiting). Her speed is also great meaning she SHOULD double in most cases, meaning she should be one-rounding reliably in Archer (Ninja may struggle, again because of their limiting str cap.
Although in Birthright, with the more prevalent Effective equipment and Dual weaponry, it may be more feasible to go for non-ranged Azura. Seriously, never sleep on the Pike-Ruin Club and the rest of that weapon group.

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Just for random fun, you can Azura let marry Jakob and get the Peg. line for him and Dwyer.

Pegasus' can use staffs, which is nice for both of them. Early Jakob could actually carry over both a lance and staff rank. I kinda prefer this over his "usual" Wyvern route. Dwyer also has a slightly better strength growth (not that it matters much). Also easy win chapter, who just needs a boss kill. Freeing Sakura from healing duties, so she can build magic rank.

I think Pegs give better speed, but less strength. But gaining more strength is easier to gain then speed (just force and/or use effective weaponry).

But not too sure how late Jakob fares with this...

Subaki is meh. But I had some great ones, just watch his early speed and promote in time. He will always fall off eventually, but will always be a nice ferry for units that need it.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Just for random fun, you can Azura let marry Jakob and get the Peg. line for him and Dwyer.

Pegasus' can use staffs, which is nice for both of them. Early Jakob could actually carry over both a lance and staff rank. I kinda prefer this over his "usual" Wyvern route. Dwyer also has a slightly better strength growth (not that it matters much). Also easy win chapter, who just needs a boss kill. Freeing Sakura from healing duties, so she can build magic rank.

I think Pegs give better speed, but less strength. But gaining more strength is easier to gain then speed (just force and/or use effective weaponry).

But not too sure how late Jakob fares with this...

The thing is, I played as m!Corrin, so I wouldn't have had Jakob until late. But tbh, I would have really appreciated a staffbot-Pegasus in my team ㅠㅠ

I never married off Jakob, let alone used him other than pair-up botting with Takumi, so I never got Dwyer. But if they both have potential to be good Pegasus Knights, I'd be glad to use them for my Revelations run 😂 ijustthinktheyreneat.jpg

I ended up marrying off Azura with Kaze cause I read that Kaze was an "ideal" father for Shigure due to his speed. Shigure ended up with good speed as expected, but his strength was unsalvageable at that point and his magic was non-existent to staffbot (low str, high spd ... a true pegasus knight LOL). I was really disappointed in his performance tbh, even tho I did baby him quite a bit. I should have just forged his weapons more at that point, but I had like 4 Pegasus Knights in my team and not enough naginatas LOL. For my Revelations run, I might just make him my staffbot-Pegasus if his strength ends up bad again.

Quote

Subaki is meh. But I had some great ones, just watch his early speed and promote in time. He will always fall off eventually, but will always be a nice ferry for units that need it.

I really babied Subaki cause I just really like him, and he ended up great in my run. Like I said before, his personal weapon Subaki's Pike was insane when forged (I had a +3, which ends up with 20 mt omgggg) and really was his saving grace. Paired up with Saizo, the both of them would dominate the late game maps. To be fair tho, had I not gotten lucky with finding his weapon 4 times, he wouldn't have done as well.

 

Also update: Currently doing a Conquest run with a Dark Falcon Corrin and it's been a smoother ride haha.

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5 hours ago, Tenma said:

I ended up marrying off Azura with Kaze cause I read that Kaze was an "ideal" father for Shigure due to his speed. Shigure ended up with good speed as expected, but his strength was unsalvageable at that point and his magic was non-existent to staffbot (low str, high spd ... a true pegasus knight LOL). I was really disappointed in his performance tbh, even tho I did baby him quite a bit. I should have just forged his weapons more at that point, but I had like 4 Pegasus Knights in my team and not enough naginatas LOL. For my Revelations run, I might just make him my staffbot-Pegasus if his strength ends up bad again.

Kaze!Shigure's Strength growth is actually base 42.5%, which while not exactly the best isn't too bad. In Sky/Falcon Knight that gets bumped up to 52.5, which is fairly respectable, but is still the range where rng screwage can occur rather easily, which is an issue that feels rather common in Fates tbh. Another limiting factor would also be Falcon Knight's kinda garbage Strength cap of 28, reduced by 1 from Kaze's inherited -2 Strength modifier (Shigure's base Str mod is +1). Kaze can usually get around this with effective weaponry and the general amazing versatility of his high crit rate and his base weapon type being amazing, but Shigure suffers in that regard. He also indeed has a garbage magic growth of 2.5 (the average of his base 5 and Kaze's 0 lmao) and won't be a good staffbot outside of base magic Mends/Sun Festals (which admittedly can do decently in a pinch but won't be useful by endgame).

If you can get Shigure out of the Sky Knight line that'd probably be good, Ninja works fine, although in BR his only real option outside that is Samurai from Hisame or Cavalier from Sophie tbh.

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5 hours ago, Emerson said:

Kaze!Shigure's Strength growth is actually base 42.5%, which while not exactly the best isn't too bad. In Sky/Falcon Knight that gets bumped up to 52.5, which is fairly respectable, but is still the range where rng screwage can occur rather easily, which is an issue that feels rather common in Fates tbh. Another limiting factor would also be Falcon Knight's kinda garbage Strength cap of 28, reduced by 1 from Kaze's inherited -2 Strength modifier (Shigure's base Str mod is +1). Kaze can usually get around this with effective weaponry and the general amazing versatility of his high crit rate and his base weapon type being amazing, but Shigure suffers in that regard. He also indeed has a garbage magic growth of 2.5 (the average of his base 5 and Kaze's 0 lmao) and won't be a good staffbot outside of base magic Mends/Sun Festals (which admittedly can do decently in a pinch but won't be useful by endgame).

If you can get Shigure out of the Sky Knight line that'd probably be good, Ninja works fine, although in BR his only real option outside that is Samurai from Hisame or Cavalier from Sophie tbh.

Oh man, I guess the RNG gods were not in my favor LOL. By endgame, my Shigure had 24 strength only cause I gave him one Energy Drop (I forgot what level, but I didn't max him out). He had similar strength with my Subaki but better speed and would have performed better had I just given him a better forged weapon (I think I only gave him a +1 or +2 Steel). It's just I Heart Sealed Subaki as a Swordmaster to get Astra (then back to Falcon) and he triggered it really often, which was what set him apart from Shigure. What I forgot to mention though was that I actually had Shigure as a Kinshi Knight initially, which has only a 5% strength growth and his cap would have been a painful 26. I found that I didn't really like the class for him after a while, so I switched him back to Falcon Knight a couple levels after getting Air Superiority. But yeah, I forgot what his magic was exactly at endgame, but it was less than 10 LOL.

I can't find anything saying he has access to Spear Master, but I feel that would be his better secondary class if I were to have kept him as a Falcon Knight.

Edited by Tenma
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39 minutes ago, Tenma said:

Oh man, I guess the RNG gods were not in my favor LOL. By endgame, my Shigure had 24 strength only cause I gave him one Energy Drop (I forgot what level, but I didn't max him out). He had similar strength with my Subaki but better speed and would have performed better had I just given him a better forged weapon (I think I only gave him a +1 or +2 Steel). It's just I Heart Sealed Subaki as a Swordmaster to get Astra (then back to Falcon) and he triggered it really often, which was what set him apart from Shigure. What I forgot to mention though was that I actually had Shigure as a Kinshi Knight initially, which has only a 5% strength growth and his cap would have been a painful 26. I found that I didn't really like the class for him after a while, so I switched him back to Falcon Knight a couple levels after getting Air Superiority. But yeah, I forgot what his magic was exactly at endgame, but it was less than 10 LOL.

Kinshi's cap is only 1 less than Falcon, and 5% less growth. It wouldn't make too much of a difference, and to be honest, the effective damage from bows and their generally higher might would actually do really well in patching up his poor offenses.

On another note, Astra on Subaki is absolutely amazing. Astra itself is seriously like the best activation in Fates bar none. Instantly filling up the Dual Guard meter is amazing, alongside being available with Vantage which pairs perfectly with that fact. Subaki himself has a stupid high Skill growth and a +2 stat mod, so it's definitely worth getting on him.

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On 11/7/2020 at 4:20 PM, Emerson said:

^ Definitely gonna agree with this actually, one shotting is extremely difficult to do normally, hence why I think, if you are going to go for offensive Azura, anything with reliable range is way better than Lance/Axe. Archer and Ninja (although their str cap is limiting). Her speed is also great meaning she SHOULD double in most cases, meaning she should be one-rounding reliably in Archer (Ninja may struggle, again because of their limiting str cap.
Although in Birthright, with the more prevalent Effective equipment and Dual weaponry, it may be more feasible to go for non-ranged Azura. Seriously, never sleep on the Pike-Ruin Club and the rest of that weapon group.

The accuracy on at least two of those weapons is pretty suspect, so I dunno about that. Doesn't help that they have -10 evade...

43 minutes ago, Emerson said:

On another note, Astra on Subaki is absolutely amazing. Astra itself is seriously like the best activation in Fates bar none. Instantly filling up the Dual Guard meter is amazing, alongside being available with Vantage which pairs perfectly with that fact. Subaki himself has a stupid high Skill growth and a +2 stat mod, so it's definitely worth getting on him.

It'll instantly fill the shield gauge... IF the enemy survives that long. Which isn't something I consider likely unless it triggered against something durable. There's also the low activation rate to consider...

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The accuracy on at least two of those weapons is pretty suspect, so I dunno about that. Doesn't help that they have -10 evade...

Honestly accuracy isn't a massive issue in Fates BR/Rev outside of particularly dodgy enemies like Ninjas, and units with shitty skill. Plus they usually ORKO, occasionally OHKO, anyways with Fates' lesser HP stats, although even if they don't it's likely the unit itself with lackluster stats which means they probably need all the extra damage they can get anyways. And also like, the -10 avoid isn't really a big deal, especially with Fates' lesser prevalence with dodging in general. BR is full of tanky ass units that can't hit too hard back and that weapon series really helps them, even if Ryoma comes in and makes them look like nothing.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

It'll instantly fill the shield gauge... IF the enemy survives that long. Which isn't something I consider likely unless it triggered against something durable. There's also the low activation rate to consider...

It's activation rate is low so, like any activation skill, it's not something to be relied on, but the Shield Guage filling isn't about that specific combat, it carried between and can make the next encounter go smoother, and can snowball if you're lucky. That's super good for the enemy-spamy lategame of Birthright and Revelation.
And like I said, Subaki's got a really solid skill growth and cap, so he particularly can make use of it. The low activation rate is an issue, hence why you don't rely on it, but it's definitely useful for any unit.

Edited by Emerson
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15 hours ago, Emerson said:

Honestly accuracy isn't a massive issue in Fates BR/Rev outside of particularly dodgy enemies like Ninjas, and units with shitty skill. Plus they usually ORKO, occasionally OHKO, anyways with Fates' lesser HP stats, although even if they don't it's likely the unit itself with lackluster stats which means they probably need all the extra damage they can get anyways. And also like, the -10 avoid isn't really a big deal, especially with Fates' lesser prevalence with dodging in general. BR is full of tanky ass units that can't hit too hard back and that weapon series really helps them, even if Ryoma comes in and makes them look like nothing.

The problem is, two of those, especially the Swordcatcher, are likely being aimed at evasive units. Using an inaccurate weapon on an evasive enemy is only setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, the only tanky units who have trouble doing damage that I can think of off the top of my head are Subaki and Rinkah, both of whom are trash anyway.

15 hours ago, Emerson said:

It's activation rate is low so, like any activation skill, it's not something to be relied on, but the Shield Guage filling isn't about that specific combat, it carried between and can make the next encounter go smoother, and can snowball if you're lucky. That's super good for the enemy-spamy lategame of Birthright and Revelation.
And like I said, Subaki's got a really solid skill growth and cap, so he particularly can make use of it. The low activation rate is an issue, hence why you don't rely on it, but it's definitely useful for any unit.

Even with that in mind, it isn't something I'd count on. Also, being paired up actually has a non-negligible opportunity cost to consider this time.

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48 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem is, two of those, especially the Swordcatcher, are likely being aimed at evasive units. Using an inaccurate weapon on an evasive enemy is only setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, the only tanky units who have trouble doing damage that I can think of off the top of my head are Subaki and Rinkah, both of whom are trash anyway.

Maybe it's just my experience but pretty much, like, every unit in BR Luna has issues damage wise except Ryoma and Hana. Oboro, Hinoka, Silas, pretty much all of them end up struggling to orko or even do decent damage by lategame. Hinoka's probably the closest to being solid on that front in my experience, but lategame BR throws a ton of Axe users and Armors at you that she DEFINITELY cannot handle reliably without a decent Magic stat to spam Bolt Naginata at them.
And it's really not that much of an accuracy drop, only 10% loss over Steel, 15% over Iron and Silver, which in a 2rn system doesn't end up affecting that much. The reward also definitely outweighs the risk since it does so much damage usually. And if you were struggling to hit with these weapons, you were already struggling to hit WITHOUT them, so might as well make it so the hit itself actually means something.

54 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Even with that in mind, it isn't something I'd count on. Also, being paired up actually has a non-negligible opportunity cost to consider this time.

That was literally everywhere in what I said. I've said it like 3 times. It isn't something you rely on. But it is something that's very good when it does happen.

Calculating it out, with Subaki going,

Lv 5-17 Peg, 17-20 Samurai, 1-5 Swordmaster, 5-20 Kinshi (Kinshi has a higher Skill base without a major drop to either defensive stat)

His Skill comes out to about 28 (at 20/5 in Kinshi) on average, meaning he gets a ~14% chance, during any attack, to just, not take damage from the next attack he receives. With Pair-Up bonuses from, say, let's go with S Support Setsuna, promoted early to be a 10/1 Sniper to give Pair-Up bonuses to him (theres probably something more optimal that gives Skill and Def in decent value, but it's not really worth the trouble to find, and would likely be too convoluted to actually make ingame), that's another 4 to his Skill, putting him at ~16% chance, which by the time he hits capped Skill, (~20/15 on average), he'll hit 35 (not counting statues to up his cap at all) plus the 4 from Setsuna, which puts him at about a 20% chance to just, not take damage at all on the next enemy attack, which is an amazing tool to have at your disposal, either for luring a strong enemy or provoking a group, protecting a weaker ally, whatever. It's useful.

Is it reliable? No, absolutely not, and I never argued it is. But it can't just be simply discounted, especially alongside his solid Defense and HP even before including Guard Naginata, which are roughly 31 Def and 45 HP (before any bonuses) at 20/20.

Subaki still kinda sucks because he's such an annoying unit to GET to that point, and his low speed will really hurt him on enemy phase, but it still is a very good defensive niche, especially if you decide to let him S Support Hinoka or Oboro and get Spear Master, which puts his Skill at roughly the same level, but with better stats in pretty much every other area but Res (although without the utility of flight).

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