Jump to content

Advice for Falcon Knight Corrin? [FE Newbie]


LJ_Reflet
 Share

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Emerson said:

Calculating it out, with Subaki going,

Lv 5-17 Peg, 17-20 Samurai, 1-5 Swordmaster, 5-20 Kinshi (Kinshi has a higher Skill base without a major drop to either defensive stat)

His Skill comes out to about 28 (at 20/5 in Kinshi) on average, meaning he gets a ~14% chance, during any attack, to just, not take damage from the next attack he receives. With Pair-Up bonuses from, say, let's go with S Support Setsuna, promoted early to be a 10/1 Sniper to give Pair-Up bonuses to him (theres probably something more optimal that gives Skill and Def in decent value, but it's not really worth the trouble to find, and would likely be too convoluted to actually make ingame), that's another 4 to his Skill, putting him at ~16% chance, which by the time he hits capped Skill, (~20/15 on average), he'll hit 35 (not counting statues to up his cap at all) plus the 4 from Setsuna, which puts him at about a 20% chance to just, not take damage at all on the next enemy attack, which is an amazing tool to have at your disposal, either for luring a strong enemy or provoking a group, protecting a weaker ally, whatever. It's useful.

Is it reliable? No, absolutely not, and I never argued it is. But it can't just be simply discounted, especially alongside his solid Defense and HP even before including Guard Naginata, which are roughly 31 Def and 45 HP (before any bonuses) at 20/20.

Subaki still kinda sucks because he's such an annoying unit to GET to that point, and his low speed will really hurt him on enemy phase, but it still is a very good defensive niche, especially if you decide to let him S Support Hinoka or Oboro and get Spear Master, which puts his Skill at roughly the same level, but with better stats in pretty much every other area but Res (although without the utility of flight).

This sounds - and probably is indeed - purely academic, considering that this won't even help me for most of the game, and reaching 20/20 likely won't even happen by the time the game is over. And that's putting aside that I consider fielding some random scrub for the sake of being pair up fodder to be a poor use of resources with a big opportunity cost.

14 hours ago, Emerson said:

Maybe it's just my experience but pretty much, like, every unit in BR Luna has issues damage wise except Ryoma and Hana. Oboro, Hinoka, Silas, pretty much all of them end up struggling to orko or even do decent damage by lategame. Hinoka's probably the closest to being solid on that front in my experience, but lategame BR throws a ton of Axe users and Armors at you that she DEFINITELY cannot handle reliably without a decent Magic stat to spam Bolt Naginata at them.
And it's really not that much of an accuracy drop, only 10% loss over Steel, 15% over Iron and Silver, which in a 2rn system doesn't end up affecting that much. The reward also definitely outweighs the risk since it does so much damage usually. And if you were struggling to hit with these weapons, you were already struggling to hit WITHOUT them, so might as well make it so the hit itself actually means something.

Considering that high percent attacks seem to miss waaaaaaay more often than in Awakening and other games, I can't help but be leery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/7/2020 at 10:21 PM, Shadow Mir said:

The problem I have with this is that if they don't one shot - and I generally find one-shots a rarity outside of either using weapons that are effective against the enemy

On 11/7/2020 at 11:20 PM, Emerson said:

one shotting is extremely difficult to do normally

Especially if you ignore Fates Attack Stance system - then again, I don´t get why the REFRESHER attacks in the first place.

On 11/9/2020 at 1:44 AM, Tenma said:

I can't find anything saying he has access to Spear Master, but I feel that would be his better secondary class if I were to have kept him as a Falcon Knight.

The only way to get Shigure Spear Fighter line is to have Azura marry an appropriately set up Corrin, or have Shigure marry a f!Kana with Spear Fighter line. As far as I´m aware.

On 11/9/2020 at 2:28 AM, Emerson said:

Astra itself is seriously like the best activation in Fates bar none.

Sol would like to have a word with you. Especially when it´s on Xander/Ryoma or a Master Ninja. Then again, being the best of a quite mediocre bunch isn´t something to be proud off.

14 hours ago, Emerson said:

Subaki still kinda sucks because he's such an annoying unit to GET to that point, and his low speed will really hurt him on enemy phase, but it still is a very good defensive niche, especially if you decide to let him S Support Hinoka or Oboro and get Spear Master, which puts his Skill at roughly the same level, but with better stats in pretty much every other area but Res (although without the utility of flight).

... or you just use Oboro or Hinoka with the Guard Naginata. Heck, Oboro and Hinoka are superior to Mr. Perfect in every aspect (with the exception of Availability) without needing a special weapon or a backpack or a reclass or a specific skill, .

Edited by Imuabicus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Sol would like to have a word with you. Especially when it´s on Xander/Ryoma or a Master Ninja. Then again, being the best of a quite mediocre bunch isn´t something to be proud off.

Sol pretty much fell off a cliff in terms of usefulness after RD, tbf. A chance to drain half the damage dealt to the enemy doesn't sound very useful when it only works once (ergo, when the enemy is healthy).

Edited by Shadow Mir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Considering that high percent attacks seem to miss waaaaaaay more often than in Awakening and other games, I can't help but be leery.

FE4 and 5 say hello. Not to mention Echoes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

This sounds - and probably is indeed - purely academic, considering that this won't even help me for most of the game, and reaching 20/20 likely won't even happen by the time the game is over. And that's putting aside that I consider fielding some random scrub for the sake of being pair up fodder to be a poor use of resources with a big opportunity cost.

Literally I said it's still a solid chance even before 20/20 and SPECIFCIALLY said it's probably not worth the effort and wouldn't even be something I'd do personally. It's just neat and an interesting defensive niche that Subaki has with easy access to Samurai and a high skill growth. If you want ACTUAL Astra usage that's amazing, we literally just have Ryoma who absolutely uses it to an amazing degree. Lacking it would definitely hurt his potential bulk given how unreliable dodge tanking is.

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Considering that high percent attacks seem to miss waaaaaaay more often than in Awakening and other games, I can't help but be leery.

Fates does use an altered 2RN formula above 50%, which does take away a slight bias from the standard 2RN system, although it's still higher than the raw rate.
but the lengths at which you're saying they miss is absolutely untrue. And again, if you weren't hitting with the Weap Eff weapons, you weren't hitting with regular weapons, so you might as well take the extra payoff.
I will mention that they're only available in the easier routes, BR and Rev, where they are less useful by that merit alone.

10 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Especially if you ignore Fates Attack Stance system - then again, I don´t get why the REFRESHER attacks in the first place.

Attack Stance can be useful but it can be awkward to use occasionally, especially if you actually want to obtain any 2nd gens, although in a scenario where no support growth is really desired, it definitely functions better. I'll admit I do forget it exists sometimes but usually that's because the offensive and defensive stats from guard stance really comes in clutch sometimes, along with guard to block enemy attack stance.

10 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Sol would like to have a word with you. Especially when it´s on Xander/Ryoma or a Master Ninja. Then again, being the best of a quite mediocre bunch isn´t something to be proud off.

Honestly Sol is probably the third or fourth best activation after DFang (which is mostly just good for availability on Corn and general activation rate) and MAYBE Rend Heaven (although that one is harder to place high due to its awkward class availability). But Astra just functions so well with the guard meter alongside being a really good offensive tool in a game where Counter doesn't exist and it doesn't cost weapon durability. Sol is still solid and worth having on if you DO have it, you lose nothing from equipping it, but it usually won't heal enough to be worthwhile, while Astra proccing in Guard Stance negates an entire enemy attack (which the halved might actually helps with since it can let you get off more than 1 attack on a weaker enemy and gain multiple guage points), albeit with half the activation rate.

But I mean either way neither are actually reliable in any way and are mostly just helpful after the fact as far as strategy goes.

10 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

... or you just use Oboro or Hinoka with the Guard Naginata. Heck, Oboro and Hinoka are superior to Mr. Perfect in every aspect (with the exception of Availability) without needing a special weapon or a backpack or a reclass or a specific skill, .

Yeah, pretty much, compared to them Subaki actively does suck ass, absolutely no disagreement. Doesn't mean he can't be useful in some regard.

That said you do get multiple Guard Naginatas in BR (up to 3), and theres like 0 reason to forge them since, so if you do use more than 1 of the 3 it's really not a big deal. Plus with the way BR is it's not too hard to swap weapons around between units when necessary, for stuff like the Dual Naginata it's pretty much necessary until you get that second one (and you might have more than 2 lance users anyways).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Emerson said:

Literally I said it's still a solid chance even before 20/20 and SPECIFCIALLY said it's probably not worth the effort and wouldn't even be something I'd do personally. It's just neat and an interesting defensive niche that Subaki has with easy access to Samurai and a high skill growth. If you want ACTUAL Astra usage that's amazing, we literally just have Ryoma who absolutely uses it to an amazing degree. Lacking it would definitely hurt his potential bulk given how unreliable dodge tanking is.

The thing is, that's asking so much that a lot of questions pile up - why am I fielding Setsuna, who is herself a lousy unit? Why am I wasting resources on Setsuna? Why am I giving Subaki two out of the 4 heart seals I get for most of the game? Is there any reason I should see this as being worth it?

2 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

You said "other games", that includes those games, 1 RN or not.

Fair, but most of the games I had in mind were 2 RN games (and I think 2RN games make up most of the series anyway).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Fair, but most of the games I had in mind were 2 RN games (and I think 2RN games make up most of the series anyway).

But SoV uses the same RN system as Fates.

And that games hit rates are janky as well. Along with crit rates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The thing is, that's asking so much that a lot of questions pile up - why am I fielding Setsuna, who is herself a lousy unit? Why am I wasting resources on Setsuna? Why am I giving Subaki two out of the 4 heart seals I get for most of the game? Is there any reason I should see this as being worth it?

Again
it was literally just a thought experiment of a hypothetical build on the easier Fates game. It's totally doable and doesn't really affect your playthrough very heavily. Exploring an avenue of possibility in the odd chance someone wanted to give Subaki some spotlight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The thing is, that's asking so much that a lot of questions pile up - why am I fielding Setsuna, who is herself a lousy unit? Why am I wasting resources on Setsuna? Why am I giving Subaki two out of the 4 heart seals I get for most of the game? Is there any reason I should see this as being worth it?

 

2 hours ago, Emerson said:

Again
it was literally just a thought experiment of a hypothetical build on the easier Fates game. It's totally doable and doesn't really affect your playthrough very heavily. Exploring an avenue of possibility in the odd chance someone wanted to give Subaki some spotlight.

Agree with the bolded.

@Shadow Mir: It really is just a matter of preference for characters. Regardless of whether a unit is a bad unit, if someone likes the character and wants to use them, then that's more than a good enough reason to use them. I like Subaki for his character and the fact that he has the novelty of being the first male Pegasus Knight, so using Heart Seals on him was an investment rather than a waste of a resource. It's just preference, simply. On top of that, I opened this topic asking for advice on how to build specific characters as Pegasus Knights to use on my BR playthrough, and somewhere down the line Subaki came upi. So, the latter's advice was just being relevant to my initial topic.

Edited by Tenma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Emerson said:

Attack Stance can be useful but it can be awkward to use occasionally, especially if you actually want to obtain any 2nd gens, although in a scenario where no support growth is really desired, it definitely functions better.

Units that are adjacent to each other still gain support though? Even better, every unit adjacent to the fighting unit, that can support said unit will gain support, regardless of whether tthis unit is defending or attacking, allowing for a whole lot more support point gains.

7 hours ago, Emerson said:

That said you do get multiple Guard Naginatas in BR (up to 3), and theres like 0 reason to forge them since, so if you do use more than 1 of the 3 it's really not a big deal. Plus with the way BR is it's not too hard to swap weapons around between units when necessary, for stuff like the Dual Naginata it's pretty much necessary until you get that second one (and you might have more than 2 lance users anyways).

According to the wiki.org you get 4 in total - Hinoka joins with one in her inventory and then one GN for Dawn Armory LV. 2 and 2 GN for Dawn Armory LV. 3.

In other words, Subaki has no business layings his fingers on a GN ANYTIME before chapter 20 - since you know, there are better lance users available already, like (Azura,) Silas, Hinoka, Oboro, Reina and Scarlett.

I also don´t follow your point on having to trade weapons around or how the way Birthright is has any impact on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Units that are adjacent to each other still gain support though? Even better, every unit adjacent to the fighting unit, that can support said unit will gain support, regardless of whether tthis unit is defending or attacking, allowing for a whole lot more support point gains.

It's a lot easier to focus support gain consistently in Guard Stance, you don't need to break formation or anything to guarantee support gain. And that's also for cases where you have a unit you're using for both combat and as a 2nd gen parent, which is often not the case, at least for me. 

18 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

According to the wiki.org you get 4 in total - Hinoka joins with one in her inventory and then one GN for Dawn Armory LV. 2 and 2 GN for Dawn Armory LV. 3.

In other words, Subaki has no business layings his fingers on a GN ANYTIME before chapter 20 - since you know, there are better lance users available already, like (Azura,) Silas, Hinoka, Oboro, Reina and Scarlett.

21 hours ago, Tenma said:

@Shadow Mir: It really is just a matter of preference for characters. Regardless of whether a unit is a bad unit, if someone likes the character and wants to use them, then that's more than a good enough reason to use them. I like Subaki for his character and the fact that he has the novelty of being the first male Pegasus Knight, so using Heart Seals on him was an investment rather than a waste of a resource. It's just preference, simply. On top of that, I opened this topic asking for advice on how to build specific characters as Pegasus Knights to use on my BR playthrough, and somewhere down the line Subaki came upi. So, the latter's advice was just being relevant to my initial topic.

^^^ This isn't about optimal play. This is about using a character.

tbh though this definitely did get a little off topic lmao.

18 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I also don´t follow your point on having to trade weapons around or how the way Birthright is has any impact on that.

Trading weapons around has always been a good strategy in FE, and Fates, particularly BR, has a lot of odd and niche weapons that you only get in very limited quantity due to their usages being unlimited, meaning in order to make the best use of them you often need to swap them around to other units in the same turn, or swap off of them using Trade before Enemy Phase due to poor function during that phase. Birthright in particular has a lot of "hallways", general choke points, and tight spaces that makes it pretty easy to trade around weapons both offensively and defensively between your units with the same weapon types.
Not that all FEs don't have a lot of those, in any case. BR just has a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/11/2020 at 1:48 AM, Imuabicus said:

According to the wiki.org you get 4 in total - Hinoka joins with one in her inventory and then one GN for Dawn Armory LV. 2 and 2 GN for Dawn Armory LV. 3.

I think it's only three, as the two means two total. Ergo, if you bought the one from the level 2 armory, the level 3 armory will only have one. That said, you CAN get another one from visit points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, so I finished up my Conquest playthrough the other day and kept up the whole Pegasus theme and had my Corrin as a Dark Falcon. (I went "Corrin" for CQ and "Kamui" for BR cause I thought it was fitting haha)

I did +Mag/-Luck, and the early game was a much, much smoother ride than my +Spd/-Res Falcon Knight Kamui. For damage output, at least haha. Having a little bit of a lower strength growth was a little bit hard before reclassing, and I had a hard time with Elise's join chapter, but after hitting level 10 using the Ebon Wing, that's when things shot up.

Being in a speedy magic class, it was pretty easy for me to clear out enemies and I kinda felt like I was an EXP sponge, I'm ngl. I basically made Nyx and Odin completely obsolete in my team because of my presence. Odin was a great pair-up bot though--that is until I got Galeforce. We all know how broken Galeforce is even with its nerfs, so I don't even need to explain how crazy my Corrin became with it LOL.

Despite my Dark Falcon Corrin having insane killing potential, I was most definitely a glass cannon. Where I struggled in BR with strength, I struggled with defense in CQ. I don't remember the number exactly, but my Def was less than 20 in endgame and it was actually physically painful for me, especially because of how unreliable dodgetanking is in Fates. Strangely enough, Dark Falcon has the same defense growth as Falcon Knight (or moreso the lack of it), but my Falcon Knight Kamui had 26 defense (just checked) at 20/20. I did spend a few levels as a Spear Master in BR, so that might have been it. But it was no more than 4 levels, so maybe it was a little bit of luck? I learned my lesson tho from my BR playthrough, and bought Bowbreaker online LOL. It was a much needed skill, especially when struggling that much with defense LOL.

Because of my speed, I had way better killing potential than Leo--who struggled doubling without any buffs--, but he obviously had better survivability with his insane HP (it ended up being pretty similar to Keaton's).

Regardless, Enemy Phase was absolutely terrifying for me if the area wasn't clear, but at least I had the speed to not get doubled and could Galeforce the hell out of the danger zone. However, in order to make use of Galeforce, I never had a pair-up, so enemies could easily exploit me with attack stance. My playthrough lined up with my birthday, and I got lucky and got Moonlight as a gift. It was definitely my favorite tome and with it's HP recovery, it was able to relieve my defense problems a bit. I found it better than Nosferatu since it has no penalty, but it's much harder to find.

Overall, I'm not sure which one I liked more as both Dark Falcon and Falcon Knight were great classes. Galeforcing my way around the map was a lot of fun, but I just enjoy physical classes a little more than magic, personally. I definitely saw that Falcon Knight is much more geared for a supportive role, but Dark Falcon is more offensive. In any case, I just had fun with Fates removing the gender lock for Pegasus Knight HAHA

Edited by Tenma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...