What games were you surprisingly pleased with when you finally got and played them?

[lenticular]

I think the biggest one for me would be Europa Universalis III, which I picked up in 2010 after I'd been in hospital for a week. I was convalescing at my parents' house and didn't have access to all my usual gaming options, but did have a Mac laptop. Gaming on Mac in 2010 was... not great. So I picked up Europa Universalis III not because I was especially excited for it, but because it was one of a very limited number of available options. But I ended up absolutely loving the game, played it for hundreds of hours, and have over a thousand hours in its sequel.

Beyond that, there are an absolute ton of indie games. I'm much more willing to take a chance on a game I don't know much about when I'm paying indie prices, so I get more chances to be pleasantly surprised. Also more chance to buy absolute dross, but what you lose on the swings, you gain on the roundabouts. Some indies that have really pleasantly surprised me have been Stardew Valley, Slay the Spire, FTL, Bastion, Braid, Spacechem, Dungeons of Dredmor, Analogue: A Hate Story, Gorogoa, 80 Days... and many more that I am not immediately thinking of. Being able to take more chances and be pleasantly surprised more often is one of the things I love about indie games.

[know_naim]

Recently Atelier Ryza. I bought the game more as a collectors' item, since it was pretty hard to get on Switch. In general I didn't have a good opinion about games developed by Gust but Ryza changed my mind. Fell in love with the crafting system, was surprised how layered the battle system turned out to be. Now I'm eagerly looking forward to the sequel. 

Shadow Warrior, the 2013 reimagining is another one. I'm not a FPS person but thoroughly enjoyed the straightforward level design and katana-action. 

The biggest one was definitely Final Fantasy XIV though. I got it around the time the Heavensward expansion came out because my friend, a huge WoW fan, wanted to check it out. I never played an MMO, so I was very sceptical and honestly without my friends guidance through all the genre-specific quirks I probably would have dropped it after the trial. Glad I didn't, cause story-wise it's the best FF game imo.  

[BrightBow]

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

The game didn't exactly look pleasant at first glance. Visuals seemed more reminiscent of an N64 game and the character designs were... questionable. Well, Soren's design was questionable. Goofy emo kid.
Turns out though, that one can put up with a lot as long as one can get invested in the characters and their journey.
And I could most certainly see the appeal of plenty of design decisions they made. Like how battle animations took place in a variation of the actual map. It really gave a nice sense of progress as you noticed map elements slowly disappearing into the background from battle to battle. The 3D models, environments and battles also helped making everything feel more real and less like an abstraction of the actual events... even if that resulted in silly stuff like Heal Hedges because you can't just put a 1 tile fortress into a 3D space without looking silly as all hell.
Plus, the designers most certainly understood the limits of the visuals. Heck, I didn't even learn that those models actually have faces until relatively recently, because the camera just never allows you to see them. ...meanwhile the 3DS games has models that are barely any better, yet for some reason they think they hold up well during cinematic closeups. How they cleverly sidestepped a problem at their first go just to jump straight into it less then 10 years later is beyond me.

 

Castlevania (NES)

Funnily enough, I only bought that game on accident. Well, the GBA port that is. Thing is, I was actually looking for Circle of the Moon... and that game was simply called "Castlevania" in Europe. I bought the game used at Gamestop, so I had only a cartridge to glance at.
But it turned out to be quite the happy accident indeed, as it lead me down the rabbit hole that is the classic Castlevania games before they started to poorly imitate Metroid.
I've heard plenty of bad things about these games. Like how the controls are supposedly bad. You can't control your movement mid-jump, for example. But the game is clearly designed around those limitations. Your character has weaknesses but is most certainly not lacking in strengths to make up for it. The whip is most certainly a powerful weapon, not just for offense but also for defense. It has a ton of range but comes out rather slow. A lot of obstacles in the game are best resolved by timing your whip strikes just right to take out threats before they can reach you, as you lack the mobility makes it impossible to dodge them. It's a game where you have to think before you leap... quite literally too, as you have to commit to your jump arcs once you are in the air.
It helped that the GBA port is actually really good. It lacks any of the flickering issues or framerate drops of the original. You can also skip the intro cutscene and the maps screens between levels. And it allows you to save your progress. A shame that improved ports like this always fall to the wayside in favor of emulations of the original versions.

 

Castlevania 64 / Legacy of Darkness

Did anyone even hate these games before the AVGN made his videos? Like, did people back then go on about "skeletons on motorcycles" or whatever?
In any case, these are good good game... even if Legacy of Darkness makes the initial release kinda redundant as it's mostly just a polished version of the original game, even if you have to unlock Reinhardt and Carrie first.
The platforming is fun and controls well. The camera could most certainly be better but... it's an N64 game. Can't say I got the feeling it's any worse then what you see in other 3D games of the time. And it's most certainly nice to have some linear platforming for a change. The combat feels less polished, but it gets the job done.
The game's only big drawback is that it doesn't only have linear platforming levels. It also has open Tomb Raider style levels centered around exploration and puzzle solving. And they suck. A lot.
You know, if I think about the worst part of Castlevania 64, I don't think about the nitro. I think about everything else in the level the nitro appears in. Castle Center might be one of the worst things I ever played in a non-3DS Fire Emblem game, but the nitro is actually the best part of it. Because the entire rest of the level is just running through the same rooms and corridors over and over trying to figure out how to progress. Even if you already know where everything is, it seems to be intentionally designed to make you run across the same halls and fight the same enemies as often as possible. The nitro part is actually okay because for once you are presented with an actual challenge rather then just a test of your patience.
Fortunately the new levels in Legacy of Darkness are all of the linear variety, which shifts the game's ratio of good and bad levels quite a bit.

The game's biggest boon is most certainly it's gripping atmosphere. The 3D visuals most certainly make you appreciate just how of an overwhelming and hostile presence Dracula's Castle is. And the designers most certainly made the most of it. Like in the Clock Tower, you might encounter gears that are moving into each other, and you might think you can just walk from one to the other. Nope, you get mercilessly crushed between them if you try that. What a way to go.
Even the game's shopkeeper just wants that juicy soul of yours and may possibly come to collect, forcing you to fight him. He is anything but an ally.
You also see a ton if different types of vampires, who display a very wide selection of vampire powers, including some that Castlevania never used anywhere else, like wall crawling. They also love drinking your blood if given the chance, which will can also infect you with vampirism. Unfortunately failing to cure vampirism just results in an instant Game Over, but it most certainly adds to the atmosphere.
I do regret thinking at first that Carrie was basically going to be a goofball like Maria. Not only is she nothing like her, but her story is also a lot darker. Reinhardt makes friends with a vampire girl and she eventually turns back into a human at the end for... some reason and they live happily ever after. Meanwhile Carrie is a girl who had been orphaned by Dracula twice. Her journey is a lone one and ends with her visiting her mother's grave. It's quite a subdued ending.

Edited October 13, 2020 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

 

 

Castlevania (NES)

Funnily enough, I only bought that game on accident. Well, the GBA port that is. Thing is, I was actually looking for Circle of the Moon... and that game was simply called "Castlevania" in Europe. I bought the game used at Gamestop, so I had only a cartridge to glance at.
But it turned out to be quite the happy accident indeed, as it lead me down the rabbit hole that is the classic Castlevania games before they started to poorly imitate Metroid.
I've heard plenty of bad things about these games. Like how the controls are supposedly bad. You can't control your movement mid-jump, for example. But the game is clearly designed around those limitations. Your character has weaknesses but is most certainly not lacking in strengths to make up for it. The whip is most certainly a powerful weapon, not just for offense but also for defense. It has a ton of range but comes out rather slow. A lot of obstacles in the game are best resolved by timing your whip strikes just right to take out threats before they can reach you, as you lack the mobility makes it impossible to dodge them. It's a game where you have to think before you leap... quite literally too, as you have to commit to your jump arcs once you are in the air.
It helped that the GBA port is actually really good. It lacks any of the flickering issues or framerate drops of the original. You can also skip the intro cutscene and the maps screens between levels. And it allows you to save your progress. A shame that improved ports like this always fall to the wayside in favor of emulations of the original versions.

 

 

 

Have you tried the original gameboy Castlevannia games? I found them surprisingly good, especially the second one. On a similar vane, the Gameboy Megaman games are of surprisingly high quality too. For both I didn't expect much because at first glance the games seem really low tech with slow clunky movement and a tiny screen, but like you said, the games are designed around these limitations and they're designed well.

[Venger_06]

Final Fantasy XV: simply the best Final Fantasy since X. The game is like Final Fantasy XII, focusing on Hunts and exploration, but its story and characters are so much better. I know it could be better if it had more time to develop, but the final product is not bad by any means.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Maof06 said:

Final Fantasy XV: simply the best Final Fantasy since X. The game is like Final Fantasy XII, focusing on Hunts and exploration, but its story and characters are so much better. I know it could be better if it had more time to develop, but the final product is not bad by any means.

More time to develop? Wasn't the game in development for like fifteen years!?

[Lightcosmo]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

More time to develop? Wasn't the game in development for like fifteen years!?

They scrapped the entire game twice I believe and started over. It was planned to Part of the XIII series originally. And there was also the game being centered around a Male and female, i think Noctis was always the male MC, but the Female was named Stella. And the two could see this "light". Which was again, scrapped.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

They scrapped the entire game twice I believe and started over. It was planned to Part of the XIII series originally. And there was also the game being centered around a Male and female, i think Noctis was always the male MC, but the Female was named Stella. And the two could see this "light". Which was again, scrapped.

So give them more time they probably would have just scrapped it and started over a third time. Miyamoto's right to some extent about the whole a better delayed than rushed philosophy, but at some point a long development cycle comes down to bad management more than the game requiring it.

[Venger_06]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

So give them more time they probably would have just scrapped it and started over a third time. Miyamoto's right to some extent about the whole a better delayed than rushed philosophy, but at some point a long development cycle comes down to bad management more than the game requiring it.

The project didn't really start until 2013, when Tabata took over. He then only had 3 years to basically build the whole game, because the game had to be released by 2016 at the latest.

[Lightcosmo]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

So give them more time they probably would have just scrapped it and started over a third time. Miyamoto's right to some extent about the whole a better delayed than rushed philosophy, but at some point a long development cycle comes down to bad management more than the game requiring it.

This is true, I was just saying why it seems like it took so long, was all. 

I assume the end product was severely rushed as well. 

[Perkilator]

Plants vs. Zombies. I used to be HELLA scared of that game when I watched my brother play it.

Anyone else remember that game?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Tokyo Xanadu Ex

It has the same design and layout as Trails of Cold Steel I and II, but it's an action JRPG. Aside of the dungeons it plays similarly as Cold Steel by doing quests and having social links. The dungeons theirselves are quite diversified by featuring different elemens like ice physics or platformer parts. Basic skills in platforming are required to make progress. And since it's a game by Falcom the soundtrack is awesome as expected. I really hope this game will get a sequel.

[vanguard333]

On 10/15/2020 at 6:57 PM, Jotari said:

More time to develop? Wasn't the game in development for like fifteen years!?

Ten years, to be precise, but it wasn't Final Fantasy XV when it began development. Short version is that the game went through horrific development caused by the upper management and even changed directors midway through. Here's the longer (but still relatively short) version:

It was originally Final Fantasy Versus XIII: a spin-off that, while set in its own world, was going to be part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis series (think XIII and Type 0). It was going to be a much darker take on the Final Fantasy formula, and there were a lot of interesting ideas, but it couldn't leave pre-production because of a number of development issues: the engine they were forced to use just couldn't handle the game they were trying to make, and their small development team kept getting siphoned off. 

After seven years, Square Enix ordered that the game be rebranded as Final Fantasy XV, moved from PS3 to PS4 and made on an entirely different (and unfinished) game engine, and they made Tabata co-director. A year later, the game's original director, Tetsuya Nomura, was pulled off the project in order to focus on Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy 7 Remake (the latter of which he didn't know he was directing until the game was announced), and Square Enix gave the order that Tabata had until 2016 to finish the game. By this point, the team was "exhausted and fretful", and huge amounts of the game's story and lore was having to be reworked because, as a mainline game, it had to have a worldwide release, and the Chinese Government didn't like certain aspects of the original game's lore (namely that Noctis' powers originally came from being chosen by a goddess of death). 

Due to a combination of censorship, change in direction and game engine, and massive time constraints, massive chunks of the game were cut, and the end product was ultimately a rushed shell of a game; scarred by the horrific development it went through. Interestingly, both Tabata and especially Nomura are still angry about what happened, but neither blames the other; they both blame Square Enix for what happened. Nomura in particular put a ton of references to Versus XIII in Kingdom Hearts 3 in the form of Verum Rex. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by vanguard333

[Aegius_NaTL]

20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

and the Chinese Government didn't like certain aspects of the original game's lore (namely that Noctis' powers originally came from being chosen by a goddess of death). 

Huh.

Why was the Chinese government even intimately enough involved in this random FF game's development to know the premise?

Is there something in Chinese folklore/culture that makes receiving power/energy from darkness/death a taboo? What was their problem with this story?

[vanguard333]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, Aegius_NaTL said:

Huh.

Why was the Chinese government even intimately enough involved in this random FF game's development to know the premise?

Is there something in Chinese folklore/culture that makes receiving power/energy from darkness/death a taboo? What was their problem with this story?

To answer the first question: they probably knew about those specific lore aspects of the game because they were all over the marketing; Noctis' powers coming from a near-death experience and being chosen by Etro, at the cost that he now sees the light of expiring souls, was in the trailers for the game. Also, I suspect that whenever a company wants a game to release in a country, they have to give at least a basic overview of what's actually in it. 

To answer the second question: I don't think it has anything to do with Chinese folklore/culture; as far as I know, it's just the Chinese Government censoring that stuff. For a similar example of censoring, they forced Blizzard entertainment to cover all the skeletons with flesh in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. 

Honestly though, the team having to be wary of Chinese Government censorship upon the game being forced into a worldwide release was only one of the reasons the story got heavily altered, and it's probably only a distant fourth on the list at most. Another reason is that, when it got rebranded as XV and Tabata took over, Square wanted to distance the game from the Fabula Nova Crystallis mini-series that the game was originally a part of because most of the games in that series (XIII, XIII's sequels and Type-0) didn't get the returns they wanted compared to the cost, though that was mainly because those games also had their own development nightmares; they just weren't as horrific of nightmares as what Versus XIII went through.

That said, the main reason was simply time constraints; with that 2016 deadline fast approaching, massive swaths of the game had to be outsourced, reworked, or more often just outright cut. Lunafreya, for example, was created to replace Stella because Tabata knew he could not put the much-hyped Stella into the game in a way that would satisfy fans because of all the cuts. Even there, Tabata's original plan was to have her become playable after meeting up with Noctis, but then that had to be cut due to time constraints. 

 

EDIT: @Aegius_NaTL You wanted to know how they knew about the death-related lore elements of the game? This trailer rather spelled it out:

One thing I think worth noting is that Noctis and Stella have more chemistry in this one story interaction in a four-minute trailer than Noctis and Lunafreya did in all of FFXV, mainly because, unlike Noctis and Lunafreya, Noctis and Stella actually interact. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by vanguard333

[SSbardock84]

Collectively I'd say AC Origins and AC Odyssey. I pre-ordered AC Origins, because, you know, Ancient Egypt. How could I not? I figured it wasn't going to be good since they said they were going to start releasing their games every other year and focus on updating each game throughout the year. I didn't get super hooked into that whole aspect, I only played like the whole story and did like half the trophies. It was still really good and it was my favorite AC game up to that point, most of the ones prior to that being a bust. Then Odyssey was announced and I didn't preorder it, despite being a major geek for Ancient Greece. I waited for it to come back and see some ratings/reviews. I honestly didn't think they'd come out with another decent game in a row after failing so many times lol. But I heard immediately it was great and so I got it and I fell in love. Again, I didn't buy any DLC but I did get back into the game recently. Got 100% trophy completion in it and have about 80 hours total, I've only put in a few since I started playing again. I plan on buying the DLC some day when it's cheaper.

But because of the success of these two games I pre-ordered AC Valhalla with the season pass. So that'll be my first AC DLCs I've ever played, which feels weird since I've been playing these games since they first came out. The full dive trailer had me sold hard though. The fact that you can go to Asgard is amazing and that Excalibur is in the game. That has me excited for more Arthurian Legend stuff. So excited for this game.

[cluesagi]

(Sorry for the long post, but this just seemed like a good opportunity to call attention to an overlooked game I like)

So I played this PS4 action JRPG (it's also on PC) earlier this year called "Crystar". I was kind of wary going into it because it had gotten mostly mediocre and negative reviews, but I'd had my eye on it ever since it was released in Japan because I thought the story and aesthetic were intriguing. When it finally got localized and released in the US it was $60 and so I passed on it for a while, but one day Best Buy put it at 50% off and I decided to take a leap of faith.

I'm glad I did, because despite the fact that most reviewers didn't like it and literally no one I've ever spoken to in person or online seems to know it even exists, it ended up being one of my favorite games of recent memory. I'm about to talk about why, starting with the story, and this game is super story-driven. I'll avoid spoiling much, but I will talk about the first 30ish minutes. So in case you think you might play this and don't want the beginning spoiled, I've marked it as a spoiler.

Spoiler

The protagonist is Rei Hatada, a high-school student and hikikomori who lives with her little sister Mirai. One day Rei and Mirai are suddenly pulled into Purgatory, where the souls of the dead go to be reincarnated. They learn they were brought there by a malevolent and powerful being called Anamnesis, who seems have a particular hatred Rei and Mirai despite never having met them before. One thing leads to another and Mirai ends up getting killed (yes, this is all still in the first 30ish minutes, not a major spoiler). Two mysterious self-proclaimed demon girls then appear to Rei with an offer: Work for us as an "executor" and we'll let you revive Mirai, as long as (1) you can rescue her soul before she gets reincarnated, and (2) you provide the demons with a sufficient amount of what they call "Idea". And so, determined to save Mirai and exact revenge upon Anamnesis, Rei forms a contract with the demons and sets out on her journey through Purgatory.

The characters are also very well written, and by the end of the game I had completely fallen in love with the cast. I wish I could talk more about them but that really would be getting into major spoiler territory so just take my word for it.

The game was written by Naoki Hisaya, one of the founding members of Key and the author of the Kanon visual novel, if that tells you anything. Personally I'd say the story also takes some inspiration from Gen Urobuchi's works. Aside from the story, the art and music are both deserving of praise. The artist is Riuichi, who is in my opinion an extremely talented artist with a unique style that works perfectly for the tone of this game, and he really hasn't gotten as much work or recognition as he deserves. That link goes to his Pixiv post of the cover art of Crystar, but a lot of his other art is also there on Pixiv so do check his stuff out if you're interested. The music by Sakuzyo is also a highlight. I couldn't do it justice by trying to describe it but the whole OST is on Spotify so you can take a listen for yourself.

The one thing that can potentially bring the game down a bit is the combat itself. Gameplay-wise most of the game is a hack-and-slash dungen crawler, and most people feel it gets repetitive pretty quickly. That said, it is always engaging even when it is repetitive and I think it's actually a pretty well-designed combat system that can be a lot of fun when you master it. It is also annoyingly easy for the first several hours, but trust me it does get quite a bit more challenging and fun as the enemies get stronger and you unlock more moves and stuff. If you can tolerate repetitive gameplay as long as the story and characters are good, or you just really like hack-and-slash Action JRPG combat and won't get tired of it, then I don't think you'll have any problems with loving this game. If, on the other hand, you feel that you can't enjoy that kind of gameplay, this game might not be for you.

One final note: the game is entirely voiced in both English and Japanese and you can freely switch between the dubs. I played through with the Japanese audio, and all the performances were 10/10, even from minor one-off characters. I can't speak to the quality of the English dub since I haven't played it, but it has a lot of talented actors with a couple of big names. For example, the main character Rei is played by Brianna Knickerbocker (Est, Sakura, Charlotte and Ninian in Fire Emblem; also, Rem from Re: Zero and Dana from Ys VIII); Cassandra Lee Morris plays one of the demons (Sothis in FE3H, Morgana in Persona 5, etc.). Personally, I recommend you play with the Japanese audio because the translation is somewhat literal and I imagine it would sound kind of unnatural with English voices; however, you should understand some spoken Japanese because there are a couple of cutscenes that don't have subtitles even if you play in Japanese, so if you don't understand any Japanese you should probably stick to the English voices.

If it's not clear by now, this game has my highest recommendation to anyone who thinks it looks even a little bit interesting, but it's probably a good idea to wait for it to be on sale. Despite how much I enjoyed it, I don't know that I can say it's worth $60 especially if you're unsure about the combat. But it seems to go on sale on the PSN Store every time they do a "Big in Japan" sale, usually for about $30 or $20, and at that price it's absolutely worth it in my opinion. There is also a physical version but it's pretty rare since it went out of print after only one shipment. Because of that all physical copies are the "Day One Edition" which includes an artbook.

[Aegius_NaTL]

7 hours ago, SSbardock84 said:

Collectively I'd say AC Origins and AC Odyssey. I pre-ordered AC Origins, because, you know, Ancient Egypt. How could I not? I figured it wasn't going to be good since they said they were going to start releasing their games every other year and focus on updating each game throughout the year. I didn't get super hooked into that whole aspect, I only played like the whole story and did like half the trophies. It was still really good and it was my favorite AC game up to that point, most of the ones prior to that being a bust. Then Odyssey was announced and I didn't preorder it, despite being a major geek for Ancient Greece. I waited for it to come back and see some ratings/reviews. I honestly didn't think they'd come out with another decent game in a row after failing so many times lol. But I heard immediately it was great and so I got it and I fell in love. Again, I didn't buy any DLC but I did get back into the game recently. Got 100% trophy completion in it and have about 80 hours total, I've only put in a few since I started playing again. I plan on buying the DLC some day when it's cheaper.

But because of the success of these two games I pre-ordered AC Valhalla with the season pass. So that'll be my first AC DLCs I've ever played, which feels weird since I've been playing these games since they first came out. The full dive trailer had me sold hard though. The fact that you can go to Asgard is amazing and that Excalibur is in the game. That has me excited for more Arthurian Legend stuff. So excited for this game.

Coincidentally, I'm currently finishing the Odyssey DLC in prep for Valhalla. I also decided to finally play Syndicate, since I had skipped it in the aftermath of the Unity debacle. Origins' "live service" component was wholly ignorable and added very little to the game (not counting the paid DLCs). Odyssey improved a bit in that area, with The Lost Tales of Greece - but both are just attempts to extract MTX from you. Odyssey's grind and XP curve were particularly built for that.

I would recommend buying The Fate of Atlantis DLC for Odyssey. It has a decent amount of interesting content, and it will very likely relate to Valhalla's story. You can definitely skip Odyssey's first DLC (Legacy of the First Blade, or something like that) - it's horrible. It's a totally self-contained story with some of the worst writing I've ever seen in gaming.

I was a bit disappointed that Odyssey didn't go more in-depth with the Peloponnesian War. Very few pieces of popular media portray this era in history, and I was excited to be a fly on the wall for all of the major beats from ~430 - 405. But the game really only covers the first 1/3 of the war and not that comprehensively.

I have an AMD reward code for Valhalla, but I haven't gotten the Season Pass yet. Probably will though.

On the direct topic of the thread though, I am surprised to be enjoying Syndicate as much as I am. I do find myself in the camp of people who feel the newer AC games should be their own spin-off franchise, and the older formula should remain as Assassin's Creed. I wouldn't mind if they are still in the same universe and have related lore, but Origins and Odyssey are barely Assassin's Creed games (both in content and gameplay). You don't really play as an Assassin in either game (you do "assassinate" people, but you're not a member of the Assassin's Brotherhood, which was the initial basis for the entire franchise). Also, the modern day story has been wrecked by carelessness and needs a reboot to the point right after Desmond... ya know.

Anyway, Syndicate is a breath of fresh air to me. It's much simpler than Unity - it's almost like the essence of what an AC game is (or used to be). It has a fairly simple gameplay loop, but it's fun and rewarding. Whereas I haven't been able to finish Unity, I think I will finish Syndicate.

[SSbardock84]

3 hours ago, Aegius_NaTL said:

Coincidentally, I'm currently finishing the Odyssey DLC in prep for Valhalla. I also decided to finally play Syndicate, since I had skipped it in the aftermath of the Unity debacle. Origins' "live service" component was wholly ignorable and added very little to the game (not counting the paid DLCs). Odyssey improved a bit in that area, with The Lost Tales of Greece - but both are just attempts to extract MTX from you. Odyssey's grind and XP curve were particularly built for that.

I would recommend buying The Fate of Atlantis DLC for Odyssey. It has a decent amount of interesting content, and it will very likely relate to Valhalla's story. You can definitely skip Odyssey's first DLC (Legacy of the First Blade, or something like that) - it's horrible. It's a totally self-contained story with some of the worst writing I've ever seen in gaming.

I was a bit disappointed that Odyssey didn't go more in-depth with the Peloponnesian War. Very few pieces of popular media portray this era in history, and I was excited to be a fly on the wall for all of the major beats from ~430 - 405. But the game really only covers the first 1/3 of the war and not that comprehensively.

I have an AMD reward code for Valhalla, but I haven't gotten the Season Pass yet. Probably will though.

On the direct topic of the thread though, I am surprised to be enjoying Syndicate as much as I am. I do find myself in the camp of people who feel the newer AC games should be their own spin-off franchise, and the older formula should remain as Assassin's Creed. I wouldn't mind if they are still in the same universe and have related lore, but Origins and Odyssey are barely Assassin's Creed games (both in content and gameplay). You don't really play as an Assassin in either game (you do "assassinate" people, but you're not a member of the Assassin's Brotherhood, which was the initial basis for the entire franchise). Also, the modern day story has been wrecked by carelessness and needs a reboot to the point right after Desmond... ya know.

Anyway, Syndicate is a breath of fresh air to me. It's much simpler than Unity - it's almost like the essence of what an AC game is (or used to be). It has a fairly simple gameplay loop, but it's fun and rewarding. Whereas I haven't been able to finish Unity, I think I will finish Syndicate.

Yeah I kinda figured Legacy of the First Blade wasn't much good. It's the main reason I never bought the dlcs in the first place, just seems uninteresting. But I've only heard good things about the Atlantis one. Just need to wait for it to go on sale. If I can get the season pass relatively cheap though, I might just buy them both anyway. I don't really care about getting AC III with it though since that's probably my least favorite AC game, except maybe Unity.