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FE Dream duel: Who would win?


defensedefumer
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2 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

1. So a war for a war? Alright, that's fair. What of all the Mercenary work though?

2. Eh, they never really say either way how long Micaiah has used tomes. Could've been for a couple decades, could've been since the beginning of the Dawn Brigade.

3. Soren has a comparably strong bloodline, perhaps even stronger,

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given that he's the grandson of Dheginsea. Meanwhile Micaiah is the Great-great-great-how-ever-many-great-grand daughter of Lehran.

4. She's never depicted as a veteran mage either.

 

That's a good question. I don't think it's ever said in-game just how long the blessing works. Ashera's blessing has been active, for, what, ~800 years? Could be that it varies based on the strength of the blessing.

While we're arguing this is there even any proof that Micaiah is canonically stronger than Soren? Someone said earlier that the fact that she's brought into the tower is proof that she's among the strongest, but a heron is also forced and they're definitely not strong. So utility is a big factor too and Micaiah has that massive utility by being the mouthpiece of Yune. Meanwhile the laguz royals are not forced for the tower and they are definitely some of the strongest units in canon. Sothe and Micaiah are probably both capable but not legendarily powerful mages. They have some battles under their belt but their greatest value is in Siren's tactical mind and Micaiah's ability to inspire others (and have a direct line to god).

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48 minutes ago, Jotari said:

While we're arguing this is there even any proof that Micaiah is canonically stronger than Soren? Someone said earlier that the fact that she's brought into the tower is proof that she's among the strongest, but a heron is also forced and they're definitely not strong. So utility is a big factor too and Micaiah has that massive utility by being the mouthpiece of Yune. Meanwhile the laguz royals are not forced for the tower and they are definitely some of the strongest units in canon. Sothe and Micaiah are probably both capable but not legendarily powerful mages. They have some battles under their belt but their greatest value is in Siren's tactical mind and Micaiah's ability to inspire others (and have a direct line to god).

Fair enough. We've already gone far enough off topic. I concede the point.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

While we're arguing this is there even any proof that Micaiah is canonically stronger than Soren? Someone said earlier that the fact that she's brought into the tower is proof that she's among the strongest, but a heron is also forced and they're definitely not strong. So utility is a big factor too and Micaiah has that massive utility by being the mouthpiece of Yune. Meanwhile the laguz royals are not forced for the tower and they are definitely some of the strongest units in canon. Sothe and Micaiah are probably both capable but not legendarily powerful mages. They have some battles under their belt but their greatest value is in Siren's tactical mind and Micaiah's ability to inspire others (and have a direct line to god).

I never said that just because someone goes into the tower, it means they are automatically the strongest. I meant that the 11 fighters (which includes Ike, Micaiah and nine others), but not including Sanaki, Kurthnaga, Ena, Sothe and a heron are the strongest fighters. But apparently I checked and you can bring in ten fighters not specified so the 11 best fighters refers to them + Ike. 

Spoiler

Yune:
“They’ll have much stronger forces inside the tower…not to mention Ashera herself. We’ll send in our best 11. Oh, and we’ll want the two dragons! …And one from the heron tribe… And…uh…the empress. Plus, it wouldn’t hurt to have Sothe.”

 

My original point was that Micaiah is much stronger than Ilyana considering they were on par with each other in part 3 but Micaiah got enhanced by Yune's blessing in part 4 so she ought to be a lot stronger just like Sothe and Ike comment after they receive Yune's blessing. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:53 PM, defensedefumer said:

OK next duel:

Palla, Catria and Est (Echoes) vs Tanith, Sigrun and Marcia (RD)

The White Wings are hired by rich nobles to combat bandits in Crimea. They are met by the Holy Knights, and Est is accused of impersonating Marcia (as they look alike). The trios engage each other in the skies. Who wins?

Any takers?

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7 hours ago, defensedefumer said:

Any takers?

I guess the Begnion team would win pretty easily. The Whitewings are recurring characters but there's nothing to suggest they are exceptionally strong. All three are still very young and they aren't exactly Macedon's greatest leaders. Meanwhile Tanith and Sigrun lead a core aspect of Tellius strongest military force. They are a lot older with probably lots of experience under their belt. And I guess Marcia is there too. 

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Next fight: 

Astrid (POR/RD) vs Nina (Fates)

Astrid is out buying groceries for Makalov (that lazy dude) when she finds her purse stolen. Catching a glimpse of the hooded thief (Nina), Astrid rides out to confront her. They both draw their bows in a farmer's market. Who wins?

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14 hours ago, defensedefumer said:

Next fight: 

Astrid (POR/RD) vs Nina (Fates)

Astrid is out buying groceries for Makalov (that lazy dude) when she finds her purse stolen. Catching a glimpse of the hooded thief (Nina), Astrid rides out to confront her. They both draw their bows in a farmer's market. Who wins?

Are there at least two other men present? If so, Nina gets all hot and bothered by them, so Astrid pulls out the victory. If not, Nina reminds Astrid of her RD bases, and she rides away sullenly.

On 10/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, defensedefumer said:

Any takers?

In the unlikely case that Sigrun, Tanith, and Marcia are zombies, the Whitewings win easily, thanks to their Banish skill. Assuming they're all alive, though, Est gets taken out ASAP. In a 3-on-2, the Tellius trio pull out the win.

How about this: Maraj, the Wind Sage boss from RD 2-2, has it out with Maios, the Tornado Baron from Silesse. Whose wind will wind up winning the day?

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21 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about this: Maraj, the Wind Sage boss from RD 2-2, has it out with Maios, the Tornado Baron from Silesse. Whose wind will wind up winning the day?

Maios will curb stomp Maraj with his Tornado Tomb. You need a broom and dustpan to pick up the pieces.

Next fight:

Conrad (Echoes) vs Silas (Fates)

While shopping, Corrin (F) and Celica were exchanging pleasantries, until they compared their fashion sense. Celica accidently tripped while arguing, but Silas (Corrin's retainer) caught her. Conrad (Celica's retainer) saw Silas touching Celica and mistook him as attacking her.

Despite Celica's and Corrin's pleading, the two retainers engage. Who wins?

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Okay people. I've decided to put all these dreams to an end. I've created a calculator that will compare the stats of (almost) and units in the series.

Any further suggestions in this thread I'm going to input into it and get a result to see who would actually win. I'll start with the last post before this.

2 hours ago, defensedefumer said:

Maios will curb stomp Maraj with his Tornado Tomb. You need a broom and dustpan to pick up the pieces.

Next fight:

Conrad (Echoes) vs Silas (Fates)

While shopping, Corrin (F) and Celica were exchanging pleasantries, until they compared their fashion sense. Celica accidently tripped while arguing, but Silas (Corrin's retainer) caught her. Conrad (Celica's retainer) saw Silas touching Celica and mistook him as attacking her.

Despite Celica's and Corrin's pleading, the two retainers engage. Who wins?

Conrad 50 19 15 32 32 23 24 29 75.5 59.5 27.5 0
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Silas (Paladin) 49 28 4 27 23 23 23 12 65.5 46 25 NA

Both are wielding Silver Lances

Conrad has a better move stat so he gets the initiative to strike first. Conrad 100% accuracy, Silas has 81%. Conrad has 5% crit and Silas has 2%.

Round 1

Conrad struck dealing 9 damage!

Silas (Paladin) counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

Conrad attacks again dealing 9 damage!

 

Round 2

Conrad:33 HP        Silas:31

Silas (Paladin) struck dealing 17 damage!

Conrad counter attacks dealing 9 damage!

Conrad attacks again dealing 9 damage!

 

Round 3

Conrad:16HP         Silas: 13HP

Conrad struck dealing 9 damage!

Silas (Paladin) counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

 

Conrad dies.

Silas has 4Hp

-------------------------------

So all in all they were pretty evenly matched. Conrad doubled and dealt a single point more damage per round while Silas had shakier hit so if he misses one of his three attacks then he loses. However this doesn't take into account skills which Silas has access to (though granted the Paladin skill list is pretty underwhelming, Elbow Room will let him deal more damage but it won't have him killing in less than three hits) and Conrad doesn't. They also both just fought with Silver Lances. If Conrad had his Blessed Lance it would extend the match much longer and give Silas more chances to miss. My battle simulator can't account for those things. Though if people are up for it I could record footage of battles playing out using FireEmblemGBABuilder.

Edited by Jotari
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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Conrad has a better move stat so he gets the initiative to strike first.

I assume it´s Gold Knight Conrad then? Or Skogul?

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Both are wielding Silver Lances

What Silver Lance are they using? It´s neither the Echoes variation nor the Fates variation is it?

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

If Conrad had his Blessed Lance it would extend the match much longer and give Silas more chances to miss.

Conrad would also not deal any damage as the Echoes Blessed Lance has only 3 might. 

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3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I assume it´s Gold Knight Conrad then? Or Skogul?

What Silver Lance are they using? It´s neither the Echoes variation nor the Fates variation is it?

Conrad would also not deal any damage as the Echoes Blessed Lance has only 3 might. 

Skogul Conrad. They're wielding a Silver Lance that's an approximate average for the series with 13mt and 75% hit. Which happens to be the same as the Awakening version but that's just coincidental. The strongest Silver Lance is Genealogy at 20mt while the weakest is Shadows of Valentia at 8mt. Prf weapons would be ideal but Silas doesn't really have one of them. You're right that a regular Blessed Lance would deal beneath the threshold of damage on Silas, but a forged Blessed Lance would manage to deal 1 damage per hit...so Conrad is still probably better served with a Silver Lance. The strongest Lance Conrad would have access to in his own game would be Sol at 20mt while for Silas it would be the Waterwheel at 19mt.

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23 minutes ago, PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld said:

Soren vs Byleth 

Byleth literally has save-scum powers so at least if we're going by gameplay, Byleth could probably just Divine Pulse spam til' they get a crit.

Dunno enough about both for if we're running on story-logic. (Since then it's plausible Byleth would literally burn through Divine Pulse.)

Edited by Samz707
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13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Conrad has a better move stat so he gets the initiative to strike first. Conrad 100% accuracy, Silas has 81%. Conrad has 5% crit and Silas has 2%.

 

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Conrad struck dealing 9 damage!

Silas (Paladin) counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

Conrad attacks again dealing 9 damage!

 

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Conrad dies.

Silas has 4Hp

Given the numbers provided above, Silas needs to get a Crit or hit 3 times in a row in order to kill Conrad before Conrad kills him. Conrad can get either 2 Crits, 1 Crit + 3 Hits, or 6 Hits. Because Conrad has 100% Hit he is guaranteed to kill before Silas gets a 4th attack, and because Silas has only 81% Hit (and very low Crit) there is a smaller chance of this happening than Conrad killing Silas.

The odds, given the parameters above proved by Jotari, are 57:43 in Conrad's favor. This means that here is a 57% chance of Conrad winning, and a 43% chance of Silas winning. This is a pretty close match, but the odds are in Conrad's favor.

This is calculated using 81% Hit for Silas, not accounting for true Hit, which brings up the question, which game's mechanics did you use to calculate Hit and Avoid rates? They are calculated differently in different games.

I also did not calculate the odds if Silas was to attack first. I believe that this would increase Silas' odds, but like Jotari already said, Conrad is able to get the first strike due to higher Move.

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Byleth literally has save-scum powers so at least if we're going by gameplay, Byleth could probably just Divine Pulse spam til' they get a crit.

Dunno enough about both for if we're running on story-logic. (Since then it's plausible Byleth would literally burn through Divine Pulse.)

In gameplay, Divine Pulse doesn't change RNG when used so it cannot be used to manipulate for Hits or Crits unless Byleth does something to change his strategy each time. If his opponent can overpower him, then I don't think Divine Pulse would do a whole lot to change that. With that being said, I feel like Byleth would be able to over power Soren. Byleth is pretty strong. Unless Soren gets lucky with Adept, but that's not reliable.

Edited by Whisky
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6 hours ago, PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld said:

Soren vs Byleth 

Given Byleth can attack physically I can't see this going well for Soren.

Battle 1- POR!Soren vs Byleth

Byleth 49 31 21 25 25 29 22 16
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Soren 37 4 49 27 25 19 9 24
Spoiler

Byleth is equipped with the Sublime Sword of the Creator while Soren has Rexcalibur (even though it's unused in Path of Radiance, and I'm using it's better Radiant Dawn stats). Both characters have 100% hit Byleth has 15% crit, Soren has 4% crit. Both have an equal amount of movement at 6, so I'll play two battles with both characters shaving the chance to initiate.

Round 1

Byleth struck dealing 37 damage!

Soren is dead

So uh, yeah, 31 strength + 15mt from the Sublime Sword of the Creator, Byleth has exactly enough power to 1hit KO Soren with his pathetic defense. Let's see if Soren can do the same if he attacks first.

 

Round 1

Soren struck dealing 46 damage!

Byleth counter attacks dealing 37 damage!

Soren is dead, Byleth has 3HP

Soren manages to get a pretty high mt to nuke Byleth into the low single didgits, but unfortunately Byleth still manages to take Soren out with one blow. If skills are added into the list then Soren gets an extra 27% adept proc to add to his crit rate for a chance at winning, but that still doesn't have him winning the majority of battles against Byleth. I reckon Soren's only real chance of winning is if he can manage to hit with a siege tome and immediately follow it up with a rexcalibur strike before Byleth gets into range for an attack. Which he might be able to do given Byleth's pretty low movement.

Now, on to Radiant Dawn Soren.

Byleth 49 31 21 25 25 29 22 16
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Soren 37 18 44 27 26 13 15 20
Spoiler

Same weapons again. Even though Soren has an extra tier of promotion in this game, he's still stuck at 6mov so again we'll have to do two battles to determine a winner with both having the chance to initiate. Both still have 100% hit, but Soren's lower Radiant Dawn luck has buffed Byleth's crit to 21% and lowered his own to 1%.

Round 1

Byleth struck dealing 31 damage!

Soren struck dealing 41 damage!

Byleth:8 HP        Soren 6Hp

 

Round 2

Soren struck dealing 41 damage!

 

So I'm not going to even bother doing it the other way round. Who ever attacks first is going to lose. Without skills Byleth has the advantage with 21% crit rate. With skills Byleth get's Enlightened One's Swordfaire which gets his attack strong enough to put Soren at a frustrating 1HP. The rest of Enlightened One and Commoner's skills don't help much more either. Soren on the other hand gets a massive amount of buffs from skills. Not only does he retain Adept from Path of Radiance giving him another 21% to proc an attack, he also gets Flare which is an extra 13.5% chance of negating Byleth's resistance entirely, knocking his chances of winning up to 33.5%. 

I suppose Soren does also have potential access to Flare in Path of Radiance where it's weaker, but with a higher activation rate that would really help Soren. But you need to use an item to get it there. Taking a glance at the numbers it would put Soren's chance of procing something that can kill over 50%, but when you subtract Byleth's crit chance it puts him down below 50% again so Byleth is still the winner against Path of Radiance Soren for the majority of battles (and that's only when he gets an attack in and doesn't die in one attack from Byleth).

Ah but wait! I'm forgetting one extra Skill Byleth has, and that's Byleth's combat Art, Sublime Heaven. With the extra 17mt that provides it's more than enough for Byleth to one shot Radiant Dawn Soren too. And unlike Soren relying on his procs, Byleth can just launch this on any player phase.

So closer than I thought. Byleth's low resistance meant Soren could take him out in two hits or a single hit with a proc. Unfortunately it worked both ways for him. The end result is that Byleth beats Path of Radiance Soren and has a very close match with Radiant Dawn Soren that he only gets the edge on due to a higher crit rate. With skills included Soren get's a better % chance to kill Byleth, but Byleth also gets a combat art that can guarantee a kill in one hit.

 

4 hours ago, Whisky said:

 

 

Given the numbers provided above, Silas needs to get a Crit or hit 3 times in a row in order to kill Conrad before Conrad kills him. Conrad can get either 2 Crits, 1 Crit + 3 Hits, or 6 Hits. Because Conrad has 100% Hit he is guaranteed to kill before Silas gets a 4th attack, and because Silas has only 81% Hit (and very low Crit) there is a smaller chance of this happening than Conrad killing Silas.

The odds, given the parameters above proved by Jotari, are 57:43 in Conrad's favor. This means that here is a 57% chance of Conrad winning, and a 43% chance of Silas winning. This is a pretty close match, but the odds are in Conrad's favor.

This is calculated using 81% Hit for Silas, not accounting for true Hit, which brings up the question, which game's mechanics did you use to calculate Hit and Avoid rates? They are calculated differently in different games.

I also did not calculate the odds if Silas was to attack first. I believe that this would increase Silas' odds, but like Jotari already said, Conrad is able to get the first strike due to higher Move.

In gameplay, Divine Pulse doesn't change RNG when used so it cannot be used to manipulate for Hits or Crits unless Byleth does something to change his strategy each time. If his opponent can overpower him, then I don't think Divine Pulse would do a whole lot to change that. With that being said, I feel like Byleth would be able to over power Soren. Byleth is pretty strong. Unless Soren gets lucky with Adept, but that's not reliable.

Just generating 1 number for hit and crit. You know, the way that makes sense, instead of that GBA method that has forever ruined how I view probability. Though asking which formulas is a very good question. These are the ones I used.

Hit = (skl*2)+(luc/2)

Eva = (spd*2)+(luc/2)

Crit = (skl/2)+(luc/2)

Crit avoid = luc

I believe they're all formulas found in the series somewhere though probably not in the same game. I included luck in all of them when it's only sometimes taken into account because it is a stat that has consistently existed in the series even if it's never been all that applicable. The fairest formula to use would be to get an average formula much like how the stats are averaged. Which would be the calculate how many games it's skl or skl*2 or skl/2 etc, added them all up and then divide them by the number of games to see exactly how much skil or luc or spd you need. That would probably result in some pretty bizarre formulas though.

 

Edited by Jotari
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11 hours ago, PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld said:

Soren vs Byleth 

Byleth, easily. They have the Sword of the Creator. And if that doesn't one-shot Soren, a Sublime Heaven will. And if they die, they can just pulse and burn a couple RNs.

Here's my next one: Kamui and Leon team up against... Kamui and Leon? Wait, I didn't translate, they're facing Corrin and Leo. Nohr has become more expansionist than ever once Anankos possessed King Xander (or some bullshit like that), and now they're pounding at Valentia's shores. Who is left holding Zofia Harbor at day's end?

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6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Byleth, easily. They have the Sword of the Creator. And if that doesn't one-shot Soren, a Sublime Heaven will. And if they die, they can just pulse and burn a couple RNs.

Here's my next one: Kamui and Leon team up against... Kamui and Leon? Wait, I didn't translate, they're facing Corrin and Leo. Nohr has become more expansionist than ever once Anankos possessed King Xander (or some bullshit like that), and now they're pounding at Valentia's shores. Who is left holding Zofia Harbor at day's end?

Corrin and Leo, easily. Not only do you imply they have an army with them, but you've got the idiot savant brain that managed to make it through the brutality of Conquest, combined with someone who's actually conventionally smart. Combine that with their superior combat prowess and they'd wipe the floor with the two of them even without an army.

Edited by Alastor15243
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At Serra's promotion ceremony to congratulate her for finally getting promoted, an intruder is spotted, singing a very familiar tune....

Lalalalalalala lalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala.....

 

It's Cath! Serra, being upset that Cath would intrude at her party and sing her song, challenges cath to a duel with her newfound tomeusing powers. Who would win?

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7 minutes ago, Gordin said:

At Serra's promotion ceremony to congratulate her for finally getting promoted, an intruder is spotted, singing a very familiar tune....

Lalalalalalala lalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala.....

 

It's Cath! Serra, being upset that Cath would intrude at her party and sing her song, challenges cath to a duel with her newfound tomeusing powers. Who would win?

So Serra is promoted and Cath is just a tier 1 thief?

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7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So Serra is promoted and Cath is just a tier 1 thief?

Cath joins at 5 but for the sake of being fair let's let cath be about 15

Edited by Gordin
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2 hours ago, defensedefumer said:

Next fight (Dance-off):

Azura (Fates) vs Ninian (Blazing Blade)

Azura and Ninian join a dance competition and face each other in the finals. Auras start emitting from them. Who wins?

Azura because she can sing too.

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3 hours ago, defensedefumer said:

Next fight (Dance-off):

Azura (Fates) vs Ninian (Blazing Blade)

Azura and Ninian join a dance competition and face each other in the finals. Auras start emitting from them. Who wins?

Neither. At the last second, they both get showed up by the mysterious black-clad dancer who shows up for that one scene in Conquest.

18 hours ago, Gordin said:

At Serra's promotion ceremony to congratulate her for finally getting promoted, an intruder is spotted, singing a very familiar tune....

Lalalalalalala lalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalala.....

 

It's Cath! Serra, being upset that Cath would intrude at her party and sing her song, challenges cath to a duel with her newfound tomeusing powers. Who would win?

Gonna say Serra, because she has 1~2 range. Also, she can order Erk to fight for her, a luxury which Cath is lacking.

Howzabout: Fernand, the arrogant knight who values nobility above all else, versus... Ferdinand, the arrogant knight who values nobility above all else? Assume they're both Paladins.

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On 10/25/2020 at 12:35 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Howzabout: Fernand, the arrogant knight who values nobility above all else, versus... Ferdinand, the arrogant knight who values nobility above all else? Assume they're both Paladins.

Ferdinand clearly. even omitting their battle capabilities, Ferdinand still wins in nobility contest. while both hates losing, Ferdinand take loses as something to overcome/to improve upon (at least thats what i get from him). while Fernand clearly have superiority complex to a fault in SoV story, and just view everyone beneath him unless they are noble. Maybe if Fernand were nicer like in memory prism story he could have a better chance

Edited by joevar
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