FE Dream duel: Who would win?

[defensedefumer]

Ok next (dog) fight!

Keaton (Fates) vs Volug (RD)

In a UFC laguz category, Volug receives a new challenger. The wolfskin Keaton morphs into a hulking beast. Volug morphs into a fierce wolf. They fight in a cage. Who wins?

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, defensedefumer said:

Ok next (dog) fight!

Keaton (Fates) vs Volug (RD)

In a UFC laguz category, Volug receives a new challenger. The wolfskin Keaton morphs into a hulking beast. Volug morphs into a fierce wolf. They fight in a cage. Who wins?

Okay. SS Fang  vs Beast Stone+ Volug has the higher movement so he gets initiative. Volug 97% hit, Keaton 83%    Volug 9% crit, Keaton 0%

Volug	56	14	6	16	15	19	9	4	41.5	32	17.5
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit
Keaton	47	20	0	10	13	9	15	5	24.5	24	9.5

Volug struck dealing 18 damage!

Keaton counter attacks dealing 23 damage!

Keaton attacks again dealing 23 damage!

 

So Keaton  doubles and deals more damage on each hit. Though funnily enough Keaton did miss twice on my first run around when I was trying to generate hit rates. I should note that Keaton only just doubles, he has lesser natural speed, but Beast Stone+ gives an additional 6 speed making it 15 to 19. Which actually isn't enough to double in Fates, but is enough to double in most other games (I think). If it's one to one slugging from there the Beast Stone+ will reduce Keaton's defense each turn probably making Volug the winner, but I don't have stat reductions from Fates weapons worked into my calculator. So I guess the answer is depends on which doubling system you're using. Actually even with Keaton getting weaker Volug would probably lose as it won't actually let him kill in any lesser than three hits.

[Alastor15243]

44 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Okay. SS Fang  vs Beast Stone+ Volug has the higher movement so he gets initiative. Volug 97% hit, Keaton 83%    Volug 9% crit, Keaton 0%

 

Volug	56	14	6	16	15	19	9	4	41.5	32	17.5
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit
Keaton	47	20	0	10	13	9	15	5	24.5	24	9.5

Volug struck dealing 18 damage!

Keaton counter attacks dealing 23 damage!

Keaton attacks again dealing 23 damage!

 

So Keaton  doubles and deals more damage on each hit. Though funnily enough Keaton did miss twice on my first run around when I was trying to generate hit rates. I should note that Keaton only just doubles, he has lesser natural speed, but Beast Stone+ gives an additional 6 speed making it 15 to 19. Which actually isn't enough to double in Fates, but is enough to double in most other games (I think). If it's one to one slugging from there the Beast Stone+ will reduce Keaton's defense each turn probably making Volug the winner, but I don't have stat reductions from Fates weapons worked into my calculator. So I guess the answer is depends on which doubling system you're using. Actually even with Keaton getting weaker Volug would probably lose as it won't actually let him kill in any lesser than three hits.

Beaststone+ reduces str and skl after every combat round, not def.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Okay. SS Fang  vs Beast Stone+ Volug has the higher movement so he gets initiative. Volug 97% hit, Keaton 83%    Volug 9% crit, Keaton 0%

 

Volug	56	14	6	16	15	19	9	4	41.5	32	17.5
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit
Keaton	47	20	0	10	13	9	15	5	24.5	24	9.5

Volug struck dealing 18 damage!

Keaton counter attacks dealing 23 damage!

Keaton attacks again dealing 23 damage!

 

So Keaton  doubles and deals more damage on each hit. Though funnily enough Keaton did miss twice on my first run around when I was trying to generate hit rates. I should note that Keaton only just doubles, he has lesser natural speed, but Beast Stone+ gives an additional 6 speed making it 15 to 19. Which actually isn't enough to double in Fates, but is enough to double in most other games (I think). If it's one to one slugging from there the Beast Stone+ will reduce Keaton's defense each turn probably making Volug the winner, but I don't have stat reductions from Fates weapons worked into my calculator. So I guess the answer is depends on which doubling system you're using. Actually even with Keaton getting weaker Volug would probably lose as it won't actually let him kill in any lesser than three hits.

Shouldn't Volug get transformed stats? Or, at least, Wildheart-shifted? Those Strength and Speed look way too low, no way is Keaton doubling Volug.

Anyway, in my version, Keaton wins by defense-tanking with the Beastrune. Volug just can't break him, and Keaton hits back hard with effective damage from Beastfoe (or whatever it's called in Fates). Volug might win if he comes in with his own Beastfoe, or Resolve, though.

Edit: Time for a battle-of-the-birds! Vika gets in a scrap with a Kinshi. Yes, a literal Kinshi. Let's say Setsuna fell off her, so she decided to live freely, escaping to Tellius in the process. There are no blades or bows, only talons and beaks. Which winged being comes out on top?

Edited October 28, 2020 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Added my own prompt.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Shouldn't Volug get transformed stats? Or, at least, Wildheart-shifted? Those Strength and Speed look way too low, no way is Keaton doubling Volug.

Anyway, in my version, Keaton wins by defense-tanking with the Beastrune. Volug just can't break him, and Keaton hits back hard with effective damage from Beastfoe (or whatever it's called in Fates). Volug might win if he comes in with his own Beastfoe, or Resolve, though.

Edit: Time for a battle-of-the-birds! Vika gets in a scrap with a Kinshi. Yes, a literal Kinshi. Let's say Setsuna fell off her, so she decided to live freely, escaping to Tellius in the process. There are no blades or bows, only talons and beaks. Which winged being comes out on top?

Ill have to check my notes later to see. I generally do have two average stats for laguz units, one for transformed and untransformed, but it's possible I made a mistake.

[Jotari]

I actually tried to edit this into my previous post but Serenes is giving me ye old "Too much time has passed" error. Well it's probably for the best as this lengthy follow up will be more easily seen now.

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Shouldn't Volug get transformed stats? Or, at least, Wildheart-shifted? Those Strength and Speed look way too low, no way is Keaton doubling Volug.

Anyway, in my version, Keaton wins by defense-tanking with the Beastrune. Volug just can't break him, and Keaton hits back hard with effective damage from Beastfoe (or whatever it's called in Fates). Volug might win if he comes in with his own Beastfoe, or Resolve, though.

Edit: Time for a battle-of-the-birds! Vika gets in a scrap with a Kinshi. Yes, a literal Kinshi. Let's say Setsuna fell off her, so she decided to live freely, escaping to Tellius in the process. There are no blades or bows, only talons and beaks. Which winged being comes out on top?

 

Okay, super thanks, you're absolutely right. Those stats were not right for Volug. Because I had transformed and untransformed stats list on the chart under the same time, the list just generated the first name. So those were untransformed stats. But those stats meant Volug would absolutely dominate Keaton, which didn't seem right, so I double checked his stats in turns out I forgot to promote him when copying his averages over. So both their stats were incorrect. So now presenting the actual adjusted averages for Keaton and Volug

Volug (T)	56	27	13	33	29	38	18	8	85	62.5	35.5
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit
Keaton	69	34	0	16	22	16	26	9	40	41	16

And as requested (and because I don't want to deal with Fate's post combat stat debuffs), Keaton has been equipped with a Beastrune.

Looks like Keaton's low skill stat is really hurting him here (made worse by Beast Rune's -2 on skill). He only has a 57.5% of hitting Volug and no crit rate, while Volug has 100% hit and 10% hit rate and, as expected, doubles Keaton. Like before Volug has a higher move stat and gets initative.

ROUND 1

Volug (T) struck dealing 16 damage!

Keaton counter attacks dealing 25 damage!

Volug (T) attacks again dealing 16 damage!

Volug:31 HP                 Keaton 37HP

 

ROUND 2

Keaton struck dealing 25 damage!

Volug (T) counter attacks dealing 16 damage!

Volug (T) attacks again dealing 16 damage!

Volug:6HP                 Keaton 5HP

 

ROUND 3

Boom! Critical! Volug (T) dealt 48 damage!

Keaton is dead. Volug survives with 6HP.

 

So that simulated battle seems like it was really close, but Keaton actually got really lucky hitting Volug twice as he has just under 60% hit. But even with two lucky hits Keaton doesn't have enough power with a Beastrune to beat Volug before Volug took him down. Keaton doesn't even have a crit rate to rely on. So in a straight up battle Volug is the winner every time.

And of course like always that's without skills involved. Aside from his wildheart (which would just nerf his stats), Volug gets howl which only works for indirect attacks. So useless in this battle. Now Keaton's skills on the other hand would make a massive difference. First off he has Beastbane which gives him effective damage against Volug. This boosts his attacks from 25 to 43 giving him a 2hit KO. Grisly Wound and Odd Shaped boost his damage further, but it's not going to put him under a 2hit Ko. What will help him however is Better Odds which will increase his HP on odd numbered turns making him more tanky. Though if we take one turn to be two phases of attack, then the battle ended on turn 2 player phase, so he won't actually survive long enough for Better Odds to do much healing. So while skills help Keaton a lot, they don't help him in the critical category, which is actually managing to hit Volug. At least with beastbane he has a chance of winning though as Volug can't kill him without suffering two attacks.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I actually tried to edit this into my previous post but Serenes is giving me ye old "Too much time has passed" error. Well it's probably for the best as this lengthy follow up will be more easily seen now.

 

Okay, super thanks, you're absolutely right. Those stats were not right for Volug. Because I had transformed and untransformed stats list on the chart under the same time, the list just generated the first name. So those were untransformed stats. But those stats meant Volug would absolutely dominate Keaton, which didn't seem right, so I double checked his stats in turns out I forgot to promote him when copying his averages over. So both their stats were incorrect. So now presenting the actual adjusted averages for Keaton and Volug

 

Volug (T)	56	27	13	33	29	38	18	8	85	62.5	35.5
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit
Keaton	69	34	0	16	22	16	26	9	40	41	16

And as requested (and because I don't want to deal with Fate's post combat stat debuffs), Keaton has been equipped with a Beastrune.

Looks like Keaton's low skill stat is really hurting him here (made worse by Beast Rune's -2 on skill). He only has a 57.5% of hitting Volug and no crit rate, while Volug has 100% hit and 10% hit rate and, as expected, doubles Keaton. Like before Volug has a higher move stat and gets initative.

ROUND 1

Volug (T) struck dealing 16 damage!

Keaton counter attacks dealing 25 damage!

Volug (T) attacks again dealing 16 damage!

Volug:31 HP                 Keaton 37HP

 

ROUND 2

Keaton struck dealing 25 damage!

Volug (T) counter attacks dealing 16 damage!

Volug (T) attacks again dealing 16 damage!

Volug:6HP                 Keaton 5HP

 

ROUND 3

Boom! Critical! Volug (T) dealt 48 damage!

Keaton is dead. Volug survives with 6HP.

 

So that simulated battle seems like it was really close, but Keaton actually got really lucky hitting Volug twice as he has just under 60% hit. But even with two lucky hits Keaton doesn't have enough power with a Beastrune to beat Volug before Volug took him down. Keaton doesn't even have a crit rate to rely on. So in a straight up battle Volug is the winner every time.

And of course like always that's without skills involved. Aside from his wildheart (which would just nerf his stats), Volug gets howl which only works for indirect attacks. So useless in this battle. Now Keaton's skills on the other hand would make a massive difference. First off he has Beastbane which gives him effective damage against Volug. This boosts his attacks from 25 to 43 giving him a 2hit KO. Grisly Wound and Odd Shaped boost his damage further, but it's not going to put him under a 2hit Ko. What will help him however is Better Odds which will increase his HP on odd numbered turns making him more tanky. Though if we take one turn to be two phases of attack, then the battle ended on turn 2 player phase, so he won't actually survive long enough for Better Odds to do much healing. So while skills help Keaton a lot, they don't help him in the critical category, which is actually managing to hit Volug. At least with beastbane he has a chance of winning though as Volug can't kill him without suffering two attacks.

Neat, thanks for making the adjustment! Mad respect for the calculator, even if I don't always understand it, haha.

Huh, I though Keaton would have better bulk with the Beastrune, but I guess not. I may be underestimating Volug's offense, since I never got him beyond S-Strike. So it looks like, if Beastfoe and Odd Shaped are accounted for, Keaton can pull out the win - if the RNG is on his side. But Volug is the more reliable one.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Neat, thanks for making the adjustment! Mad respect for the calculator, even if I don't always understand it, haha.

Huh, I though Keaton would have better bulk with the Beastrune, but I guess not. I may be underestimating Volug's offense, since I never got him beyond S-Strike. So it looks like, if Beastfoe and Odd Shaped are accounted for, Keaton can pull out the win - if the RNG is on his side. But Volug is the more reliable one.

I forgot to mention that if we're talking skills then Volug could also potentially have Savage, depending on whether you want to count needing items to grant Mastery Skills (which I guess the answer is yes since we'd count characters getting master seals to promote), which would give Volug an extra 33% chance of absolutely ripping Keaton a new one. Huh, I did think Keaton was a more useful unit than Volug, though maybe that's just down to his role as a mega tank in Fates which you desperately need. But maybe I should give Volug some serious consideration for training some time. The major problem with the Laguz in Radiant Dawn is less that they have bad stats and more that they lack two range and are hopelessly difficult to actually train up and keep pace with your army.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Looks like Keaton's low skill stat is really hurting him here (made worse by Beast Rune's -2 on skill). He only has a 57.5% of hitting Volug and no crit rate, while Volug has 100% hit and 10% hit rate and, as expected, doubles Keaton. Like before Volug has a higher move stat and gets initative.

Has the Beast Runes +10 Crit Avoid been factored into Volugs Crit chance? 

Also, how many rounds of combat would Volug not be tranformed against Keaton, or be busy using weed?

And in regard to Keatons Beastbane and Beastrune: I am fairly certain Fates Beastbane effects - not the weapons but the class skill - only doubles the might of the weapon. Of note would also be, that Fates Beastkin-weaponry has Weapon Rank Bonuses- up to  +3Mt/+10Hit I think.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Imuabicus

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Has the Beast Runes +10 Crit Avoid been factored into Volugs Crit chance? 

Also, how many rounds of combat would Volug not be transformed against Keaton, or be busy using weed?

And in regard to Keatons Beastbane and Beastrune: I am fairly certain Fates Beastbane effects - not the weapons but the class skill - only doubles the might of the weapon. Of note would also be, that Fates Beastkin-weaponry has Weapon Rank Bonuses- up to  +3Mt/+10Hit I think.

Yeah, the +10 crit avoid has been factored in by giving him +10 luck. Weapon rank bonuses weren't factored in for Keaton (they were for Volug as I specified with the SS Rank Strike). The 3mt wouldn't make a big difference, but he'd definitely appreciate that extra 10 hit.

19 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Neat, thanks for making the adjustment! Mad respect for the calculator, even if I don't always understand it, haha.

 

Oh, better explain how it works. You get it by taking the units max stats averages in their own game and dividing their stats by the averages of all the stats in their own game, this gets how strong all their stats are relative to all the (playable) units in their own game. You then multiply it by the average of all stats in the series to equate to units in other games.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Jotari

[defensedefumer]

On 10/28/2020 at 12:17 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Edit: Time for a battle-of-the-birds! Vika gets in a scrap with a Kinshi. Yes, a literal Kinshi. Let's say Setsuna fell off her, so she decided to live freely, escaping to Tellius in the process. There are no blades or bows, only talons and beaks. Which winged being comes out on top?

Vika would win. Although she isn't great and dresses like a model, she has direct battle experience in melee compared to a Kinshi, which is more of a transport animal.

[defensedefumer]

Ok next fight:

Cherche (Awakening) vs Beruka (Fates)

On a practice flight, Cherche accidentally invades Nohr's airspace. Beruka moves in the intercept. Who wins?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:57 PM, defensedefumer said:

Ok next fight:

Cherche (Awakening) vs Beruka (Fates)

On a practice flight, Cherche accidentally invades Nohr's airspace. Beruka moves in the intercept. Who wins?

So, Beruka is an assassin. And Cherche has a weak spot - namely, her entire back, which is devoid of any armor. Beruka, on the other hand, is dressed far more practically for battle. If Beruka can maneuver herself behind Cherche, the rider from Roseanne is dead. Even if she doesn't, she can exploit Hand Axes working like boomerangs. Cherche's spine will not be doing fine. Beruka wins.

Anyway, how about an uneven matchup? The league of Arthurs (featuring the sons of Azel, Claude, and Lex) keep getting their asses handed to them by Arthur (son of Lewyn). So, they recruit Arthur, the luckless Nohrian fighter, to give them some physical offense. Not to be outdone, however, the Forseti bearer enlists Artur, the monk who slays monsters, to his side. Which team comes out victorious?

[Jotari]

On 10/31/2020 at 2:57 AM, defensedefumer said:

Ok next fight:

Cherche (Awakening) vs Beruka (Fates)

On a practice flight, Cherche accidentally invades Nohr's airspace. Beruka moves in the intercept. Who wins?

I can't do this one with the calculator as I don't have any average stats for the Awakening cast. If anyone has average stats for Awakening characters please let me know! All I can find is max stats difference, I guess because they assume anyone who plays Awakening is going to second seal the thing to death, which isn't exactly an unfair assumption.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

I can't do this one with the calculator as I don't have any average stats for the Awakening cast. If anyone has average stats for Awakening characters please let me know! All I can find is max stats difference, I guess because they assume anyone who plays Awakening is going to second seal the thing to death, which isn't exactly an unfair assumption.

Would it be possible to compare their max (capped) stats, normalized relative to the caps of their respective games (i.e. Cherche's would fall to Beruka's level, because Awakening's caps are higher than Fates')?

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Would it be possible to compare their max (capped) stats, normalized relative to the caps of their respective games (i.e. Cherche's would fall to Beruka's level, because Awakening's caps are higher than Fates')?

That would be possible, and might just be the smartest way to go about it based on how Awakening is designed. Fates and Three Houses does have infinite leveling (well a 99 cap) but neither of those games actually provide the opportunity or motivation to cap all stats. I just hesitate to do it for things like Chrom's resistance which will cap long, long after all the rest of his stats due to a lower growth. He starts with a base of 1 and has a 25% growth, so he'll have 11ish res at 20/20. His cap as a Great Lord is 39, meaning you'd need to have him use second seals to give him over a hundred extra levels for him to hit his cap (since he's looking at 10 points of res for every 40 levels of growth). Chrom is not meant to be a character who can tank magic, so having his defense and resistance be almost exactly the same would be weird. Characters do still have growths in Awakening and they're going to hit the cap on different stats at different rates which does make them better or worse than others which would be lost by only comparing their max stats. Compare Chrom to Robin, who only has an extra 5% res growth and 3 extra base (not counting for assets/flaws), which isn't a massive amount, but it means Robin can handle magic attacks better. But their relative difference in Res tanking abilities is just 1 by caps (39 versus 40) And caps aren't so close to each other for that 1 point to make a massive difference when the formula works out. If all the caps where in the same ball park it would, but there actually is quite a bit of difference. Great Knights and Snipers have res caps at 30. And hell Dark Knights have it at 38, so Great Lord's res cap is pretty high relatively speaking even if Chrom takes a tonne more work to hit it. Chrom having better Res stat than Dark Knight Mirel is just not indicative of how the game really is. Doing it by their 20/20 averages with no class changes wouldn't quite be indicative of how the game is played, but it would better represent how units trend in terms of their stats and who is relatively strong in what compared to everyone else.

[defensedefumer]

On 11/1/2020 at 4:29 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Anyway, how about an uneven matchup? The league of Arthurs (featuring the sons of Azel, Claude, and Lex) keep getting their asses handed to them by Arthur (son of Lewyn). So, they recruit Arthur, the luckless Nohrian fighter, to give them some physical offense. Not to be outdone, however, the Forseti bearer enlists Artur, the monk who slays monsters, to his side. Which team comes out victorious?

Artur son of Lewyn would curb stomp them all. Forseti is a scary weapon, plus Arthur's (Fates) bad luck would work against his team.

 

Next fight: Eliwood (Blazing Blade) vs Ephraim (Sacred Stones)

While travelling with Lyn and Hector, Eliwood bumps into Ephraim and Eirika by accident. He apologises to Ephraim and his girlfriend. Offended that Eirika was mistaken as his sister yet again, Ephraim challenges Eliwood to a duel. Who wins?

[Jotari]

55 minutes ago, defensedefumer said:

Artur son of Lewyn would curb stomp them all. Forseti is a scary weapon, plus Arthur's (Fates) bad luck would work against his team.

 

Next fight: Eliwood (Blazing Blade) vs Ephraim (Sacred Stones)

While travelling with Lyn and Hector, Eliwood bumps into Ephraim and Eirika by accident. He apologises to Ephraim and his girlfriend. Offended that Eirika was mistaken as his sister yet again, Ephraim challenges Eliwood to a duel. Who wins?

Okay, let's give this one a shot. Eliwood is pretty legendary as a bad unit and Ephraim is pretty well renowned as a great unit and he has WTA backing him up. So if Ephraim doesn't curb stomp Eliwood I'm going to have to scratch my head a bit and rethink my formulas.

Eliwood	55	25	0	26	24	26	20	14	65	49	26	9
	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit	Weight/Con
Ephraim	53	27	0	28	25	25	24	14	68.5	50	26.5	10

Eliwood has Durandal, Ephraim has Siegmund. Eliwood has 90% accuracy while Ephraim has 100%. Both have 1% crit rates. Eliwood has the initative.

Round 1

Eliwood struck dealing 23 damage!

Ephraim counter attacks dealing 29 damage!

Eliwood: 24HP       Ephraim:32HP

Round 2

Ephraim struck dealing 29 damage!

Eliwood is dead

 

Okay so that was a curb stomp for Ephraim, but their stats are actually closer that I would have expected. Which is a bit surprising. Looking at their actual averages (without adjustment) it does play out pretty similar. Ephraim is higher in most categories by a few points. But those few points do make all the difference it seems and part of what makes Ephraim great is that he has a great start as a unit and maintains it. Eliwood is also in the wrong game to be a sword locked unit (until his rather late promotion). Of note is that I used Durandal's Binding Blade stats to show a little favoritism. The weapon is just as strong and accurate in both games, but for some incomprehensible reason when they decided to bring it back for the prequel as a prf weapon they gave it an extra four weight, designed to be used on a unit who couldn't even use it's original weight without attack speed loss. So if we were using the stats for Durandal that Eliwood actually has in his own game, he'd be one rounded.

So Eliwood is pretty definitively the winner. No skills to factor in or anything. Eliwood basically has to rely on a 1% crit. He can't even attempt hit and run tactics with a javelin since he doesn't have full canto.

 

[Whisky]

1 hour ago, defensedefumer said:

Next fight: Eliwood (Blazing Blade) vs Ephraim (Sacred Stones)

 

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Eliwood is dead

Yeah, that’s what I expected would happen.

So then, I want to see

Eliwood, the Greatest Knight in Lycia (Binding Blade) vs Ephraim

Eliwood has improved with age, and has learned that Lances are better than Swords, having an S rank in Lances. And apparently got better quality Armour as Marquess too with such high Def.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Whisky

[joevar]

29 minutes ago, Whisky said:

 

Eliwood, the Greatest Knight in Lycia (Binding Blade) vs Ephraim

Eliwood has improved with age, and has learned that Lances are better than Swords, having an S rank in Lances. And apparently got better quality Armour as Marquess too with such high Def.

interesting, Eliwood overall have lower stats, but much higher defence FE6, maybe Ephraim victory but with smaller margin since both use same weapon type

still waiting on jotari calc

Edited November 2, 2020 by joevar

[Whisky]

6 minutes ago, joevar said:

interesting, Eliwood overall have lower stats, but much higher defence FE6, maybe Ephraim victory but with smaller margin since both use same weapon type

still waiting on jotari calc

His Str is slightly higher in FE6 too, but most of his other stats are a bit lower, most of all Luc. I guess his Luc has run out, must be why he got sick. His Skl is a bit lower but weapon triangle will more than make up for that. His Spd is slightly lower but I don’t think by enough for him to get doubled. If his higher Def is enough to allow him to survive 2 hits, then I think it will be a completely even match. I’m interested in seeing what Jotari has to say too.

[Jotari]

46 minutes ago, Whisky said:

 

Yeah, that’s what I expected would happen.

So then, I want to see

Eliwood, the Greatest Knight in Lycia (Binding Blade) vs Ephraim

Eliwood has improved with age, and has learned that Lances are better than Swords, having an S rank in Lances.

I was considering doing this. Eliwood with Maltet, the weapon he should have used in Blazing Lance! Or eh, Fire Emblem: Frost Lance? Whatever Blazing Blade while sounding sort of cool was never an appropriate title anyway.

So I should note Trial Map characters haven't been calculated in the overall averages for the game they're in. Ultimately it shouldn't make a huge difference though. Also uh, I gave initiative to Eliwood in the previous battle because I totally forgot Ephraim also gets a horse on promotion. So in cases where it's even I'd usually have two battles, one for each character starting the battle. But that wouldn't really have helped Eliwood much. Fortunately he actually does have initiative this time with Paladins having 9 move. It also seems he's considerably tankier in this incarnation, but a lot less lucky.

Eliwood:           49	27	0	24	25	16	32	18	56	45.5	20	11
HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Hit	Eva	Crit	Weight/Con
Ephraim:    55	27	0	28	25	25	24	14	68.5	50	26.5	10

Eliwood has 86% hit (huh actually lower) while Ephraim still has 100% This time Eliwood has 0% crit while Ephraim has 11.

Round 1

Eliwood struck dealing 19 damage!

Ephraim counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

Eliwood:32HP     Ephraim 36HP

 

Round 2

Ephraim struck dealing 17 damage!

Eliwood missed!

Eliwood 15HP       Ephraim 36HP

 

Round 3

Eliwood struck dealing 19 damage!

Ephraim counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

Eliwood is dead. Ephraim survives with 17HP.

 

So I had a miss there in that simulation, but if Eliwood did connect with that he would have been able to deal a killing blow. But that miss wasn't entirely improbable. Ephraim just needs to dodge one attack out of three to ensure his success, which, I think he has a 40% chance of doing. Coupled with his crit rate that should put the odds in Ephraim's favor with him winning over half the time.

Also I gave Eliwood Maltet which despite my dreams, he has no canon association with, merely a lance rank to use it. By all rights he should be fighting with a Silver Lance.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Jotari

[Whisky]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Eliwood has 86% hit (huh actually lower)

Did you factor in the +5 Skl? 

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Also I gave Eliwood Maltet which despite my dreams, he has no canon association with, merely a lance rank to use it. By all rights he should be fighting with a Silver Lance.

Yeah, that’s true. The Maltet is the Divine Weapon of Ilia. Wait a second, didn’t Roy’s mother like flowers from Ilia? Maybe there is a connection?

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Whisky said:

Did you factor in the +5 Skl? 

Yeah, that’s true. The Maltet is the Divine Weapon of Ilia. Wait a second, didn’t Roy’s mother like flowers from Ilia? Maybe there is a connection?

Yes, the +5 skl is factored in. I should note Eliwood would perform a lot better with the true hit system that both the GBA games use, however both the games also use the full luck stat for accuracy and avoid calcs while I'm using half luck. So those two things would probably balance out. Eliwood is really losing here due to his abysmal luck more than anything else. Whoever said it was a dump stat!

[Whisky]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes, the +5 skl is factored in. I should note Eliwood would perform a lot better with the true hit system that both the GBA games use, however both the games also use the full luck stat for accuracy and avoid calcs while I'm using half luck. So those two things would probably balance out. Eliwood is really losing here due to his abysmal luck more than anything else. Whoever said it was a dump stat!

Only half of your Luc gets added to accuracy in the GBA games. Full Luc is added to Avoid but only half for Hit.