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FE Dream duel: Who would win?


defensedefumer
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4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Just Rinkah things - as Oni Chieftain she has a 65% DEF growth (individual 45% DEF growth).

I´m more surprised she has 24 STR.

Indeed, what with her, 45% strength growth as a O. Savage and Blacksmith or her 40% as a Chief. I though she was worse and Hawkeye was better, but oh well.

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7 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

Indeed, what with her, 45% strength growth as a O. Savage and Blacksmith or her 40% as a Chief. I though she was worse and Hawkeye was better, but oh well.

Rinkah and Hawkeye's strength are both about average for their game. Rinkah has 35 levels of growth with a base of 8 and 45% str growth which (factoring in promotion bonuses an Oni Chieften) gives her an average of 26.74 strength in Fates (the Fates overall strength average for all characters is 26.81) while Hawkeye has 24.4 (the Blazing Blade average is 23.34). So this results in both of them having an adjusted strength stat that is roughly equal to the average of the series (23.94). Rinkah is almost bang on in the average so her strength comes out as 24 while Hawkeye is one point above his game's average which translate to (with rounding) to 25, one point above the series average. So Hawkeye is a little stronger, not a lot, but a little. His strength is still approximately average to his game.

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On 12/23/2020 at 8:01 PM, defensedefumer said:

Next Duel:

Ophelia (Fates) vs Delthea (Echoes)

During a magic show, Ophelia's performance comes under critique by Delthea. Delthea boasts that she can do better. The two child magicians duel. Who wins?

 

                         
                         
                         
                         
                         

Okay. Assuming Ophelia is a Sorcerer over Dark Knight. Here are our stats

Magical Missiletainn   9           70   10  
Ophelia (Sorcerer) 46 11 18 20 24 24 14 15 52 48 22 NA
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Delthea 41 29 23 18 34 30 8 32 51 66 24 NA
Magical Aura (V)   12           80     8

 

 

Ophelia has +5% hit and evade and +10% crit from Sorcerer. She also has priority because mage movement sucks in Valentia. I'm giving Delthea the Prayer Ring she comes with. However this will likely be of little help as it won't even compensate the damage dealt to herself by Aura (if it was the Gaiden version it'd be super useful as it grants a 100% crit rate under half HP).

One funny thing here is that Delthea's strength is higher than her magic. Why is this? Well Shadows of Valentia doesn't have separate stats for physical and magical attacks despite having hybrid units. So I've listed everyone as having equal physical and magical stats. But the formula uses the averages of the series. And since the average magic of the series is lower than the average strength of the series, it results in Delthea's magic being lower than her strength.

Ophelia's Hit 61% and 12% Crit.

Delthea's hit 78%, 0% crit.

 

ROUND 1

Ophelia (Sorcerer) struck dealing 0 damage!

Delthea counter attacks dealing 20 damage!

Delthea attacks again dealing 20 damage!

Ophelia (Sorcerer) HP = 6

Delthea HP = 41 (-12 from Aura) 29

 

So...yeah I'm calling it there. With her afinity weapon Ophelia cannot deal any damage to Delthea. And Delthea doubles to boot with a better hit rate. Originally I'd actually forgotten Ophelia had her own prf and gave her Ginnunnugup, but that's actually a terrible weapon as it's hit is really low. She did actually manage to beat Delthea by getting a lucky dodge and managing to hit twice with a 51% chance, but that only if you don't factor in that Ginnunnugup (or however it's spelled) also halves magic after use. So...yeah, Ophelia's stats are just not well suited against Delthea's high speed and res tanky build.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Okay. Assuming Ophelia is a Sorcerer over Dark Knight. Here are our stats

Magical Missiletainn   9           70   10  
Ophelia (Sorcerer) 46 11 18 20 24 24 14 15 52 48 22 NA
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Delthea 41 29 23 18 34 30 8 32 51 66 24 NA
Magical Aura (V)   12           80     8

 

You are using the adjusted stats from your calculator, yes? In that case Ophelia would have 36 MAG (unless I misunderstood something). The Missiletain also gives +1SKL/RES

Who was Ophelias mother (if that was/could be accounted for)?

No weight? Otherwise - and only if i understand SoV calculation right - Delthea loses 8 SPD, disabling doubling.

 

 

Oh, are bosses/unplayable characters possible? In that case i´d be interested to see Immaculate One vs Medeus (SD).

Edited by Imuabicus
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3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

You are using the adjusted stats from your calculator, yes? In that case Ophelia would have 36 MAG (unless I misunderstood something). The Missiletain also gives +1SKL/RES

Who was Ophelias mother (if that was/could be accounted for)?

No weight? Otherwise - and only if i understand SoV calculation right - Delthea loses 8 SPD, disabling doubling.

 

 

Oh, are bosses/unplayable characters possible? In that case i´d be interested to see Immaculate One vs Medeus (SD).

Oh yeah. Delthea should have weight factored in. Her weight came out as NA because I've been working on making Con an adjusted stat like the others, I've been treating it as statis thus far, but there's no real reason to do so. By treating it as weighted like other stats it could help out characters from certain games, Shadows of Valentia actually being the prime example as with everyone having zero weight it would give them the series average Con. Of course that doesn't quite gel with Shadows of Valentia weapons designed around people having zero weight (such as this Aura), so maybe I will change that (I am working on making movement weighted though, just so I don't have to research everyone's movement to figure out who has priority each time).

Re Ophelia's magic. D'oh. I know what happened there. I halved her magic because I was simulating a match with Ginnugagap the first time. That's why she wasn't dealing any damage. So here is the match repeated again with Ophelia's accurate stats including the Missiletainn's skl and res bonus. I'll give Delthea 0 Con too.

Magical Missiletainn   9 1       1 70   10  
Ophelia (Sorcerer) 46 11 36 20 24 24 14 15 52 48 22 NA
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Delthea 41 29 23 18 34 30 8 32 51 66 24 0
Magical Aura (V)   12           80     8

 

 

ROUND 1

Ophelia (Sorcerer) struck dealing 13 damage!

Delthea counter attacks dealing 19 damage!

Ophelia (Sorcerer) HP = 27

Delthea HP = 28 - 6 from Aura = 22

ROUND 2

Delthea recovers 5HP using the prayer ring.

Delthea struck dealing 19 damage!

Ophelia (Sorcerer) missed!

Delthea HP = 27-6 = 21

Ophelia (Sorcerer) HP = 8

ROUND 3

Ophelia (Sorcerer) struck dealing 13 damage!

Delthea struck dealing 19 damage!

Delthea HP = 8-6=2

 

So a much, much closer match with Delthea's weight factored in and Ophelia having her proper magic stat. Delthea's has a higher damage output per attack, but her own cast from HP factor means they both end up dealing 19 damage to each other. So what it really comes down to is which one of them is going to miss and Delthea does have a slightly better hit rate going for her. Ophelia can win if she doesn't miss at all, but with 62% hit rate that isn't quite likely.

If we facotr in skills then Ophelia gets some nice things to boost her hit in the from Heart seeker. Vengenace and Maelific Aura will  also help her offense. On Delthea's side she gets miracle, which gives her 60% chance of surviving a lethal attack. Which sounds like good chances on paper, but then she's left with 1HP, can recover 5HP on her own phase, which would put her at exactly enough HP to not be able to use Aura again.

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15 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

You are using the adjusted stats from your calculator, yes? In that case Ophelia would have 36 MAG (unless I misunderstood something). The Missiletain also gives +1SKL/RES

Who was Ophelias mother (if that was/could be accounted for)?

No weight? Otherwise - and only if i understand SoV calculation right - Delthea loses 8 SPD, disabling doubling.

 

 

Oh, are bosses/unplayable characters possible? In that case i´d be interested to see Immaculate One vs Medeus (SD).

Bosses and unplayable characters of max level are possible, though I don't contribute their stats towards the averages of the game. Which version of Rhea would you prefer? Crimson Flower or Silver Snow (I think her stats are different). And Lunatic 5 Medeus?

Double posting because Serenes won't let me edit.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Which version of Rhea would you prefer? Crimson Flower

I think Crimson Flower would do her justice. I´m guessing this version will have lower stats than the VW one what with the shortage of CF chapters.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

And Lunatic 5 Medeus?

Ofc XD The only real Medeus.

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10 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I think Crimson Flower would do her justice. I´m guessing this version will have lower stats than the VW one what with the shortage of CF chapters.

Ofc XD The only real Medeus.

Course Im assuming Shadow Dragon Medeus and not the uh... actual Shadow Dragon from New Mystery that might be even stronger on Lunatic. Though since we have two of both we could do both. Crimson Flower Vs Shadow Dragon for the despotic versions and Silver Snow Vs New Mystery for the crazy versions.

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23 hours ago, Jotari said:

Course Im assuming Shadow Dragon Medeus and not the uh... actual Shadow Dragon from New Mystery that might be even stronger on Lunatic. Though since we have two of both we could do both. Crimson Flower Vs Shadow Dragon for the despotic versions and Silver Snow Vs New Mystery for the crazy versions.

Personally I´m good with one dragon boss 1v1, so I´d say SD H5 Medeus vs Maddening CF Immaculate One. 

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Okay. Sorry for the delay. New Years and all. Starting off with the bttle of the crazies first, New mystery versus Silver Snow.

Physical Dark Breath 20             85      
Medeus (Lunatic) 102 41 0 43 33 0 46 62 86 49.5 21.5 NA
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) 646 38 36 31 33 53 34 22 88.5 76 42 41
Physical Crest Stone 25             100   5 1

So I'm quite surprised to see that Medeus does not outspeed Rhea. He is known for having a speed cap so crazy high only some classes can resist him. But then again I guess Maddening enemies are rewnown for being super fast, so the final boss is no exception. But Rhea is also beating Medues in the offense department which seems surprising as I always considered her a tanky mofo who's not that dangerous on the attack. And sure enough Medeus is higher in defense and much higher in res than she is...but that kind of palest in comparison to Rhea's combined HP bars. Another factor in Rhea's favor here is that Medeus has zero luck, which will definitely hurt him given the formula I use factors luck in for both hit and avoid. So I see this battle soundly going to Rhea, but let's have them face off anyway. Since this is New Mystery and not old Mystery, Dark Breath doesn't have any damage reduction or Luna affect. It's just a plain old weapon near as I can find in New Mystery.

 

Anyway, let's begin. Rhea has priority since she has more range. In fact, she should be able to attack Medeus without him countering on her turns, but considering both are stationary bosses, let's ignore the fact that she can outrange him and just give him priority instead since neither is going to budge. I will not be factoring in Rhea's barrier as I'm not really sure how it works in relation to the stats I have for her.

Immaculate One has 100% hit and a whopping 47% crit thanks to Medeus's lack of luck.

Medeus has 95% hit and 0% crit.
 

Spoiler

 

ROUND 1

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) struck dealing 17 damage!

Medeus (Lunatic) counter attacks dealing 27 damage!

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) HP = 619

Medeus (Lunatic) HP = 85

ROUND 2

Medeus (Lunatic) struck dealing 27 damage!

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) counter attacks dealing 17 damage!

Medeus (Lunatic) HP = 68

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) HP = 592

ROUND 3

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) struck dealing 17 damage!

Medeus (Lunatic) counter attacks dealing 27 damage!

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) HP = 565

Medeus (Lunatic) HP = 51

ROUND 4

Medeus (Lunatic) struck dealing 27 damage!

Boom! Critical! Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) dealt 51 damage!

Medeus is dead

Immaculate One (Silver Snow Maddening) HP = 538

 

So Medeus managed to get quite lucky there avoiding the high crit rate for three consecutive turns, and for what's it worth on a normal attack he does deal more damage. But Rhea just has him so completely outclassed in the HP department, her victory is a foregone conclusion. While New Mystery Medeus might feel like a mightier boss in terms of stats, Three Houses as a game is very, very different to New Mystery, as the player has a lot more toys with to combat higher stats of enemies. So it's not the best two games to compare, but I might do the other version of this with the more popular 5*Medeus and weaker Crimson Flower Rhea tomorrow to see if Medeus stands a better chance when he has his wits about him.

 

 

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On 1/3/2021 at 11:52 PM, Jotari said:

Okay. Sorry for the delay. New Years and all. Starting off with the bttle of the crazies first, New mystery versus Silver Snow.

 

No worries, we all are busy too!

How about Largo (POR) vs Gunter (Fates)?

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On 1/5/2021 at 11:28 PM, defensedefumer said:

No worries, we all are busy too!

How about Largo (POR) vs Gunter (Fates)?

I don't think'll be that interesting. Largo's not the best unit ever, but he's not Jagen levels of bad when we compare max stats.

Physical Silver Axe 14             70     14
Largo 61 31 7 24 26 19 12 5 57.5 48.5 21.5 30
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con
Gunther (Conquest) 46 17 0 23 9 13 18 4 52.5 20 18 NA
Physical Silver Axe 14             70     14

 

 

Largo has 15% crit boost. Gunther has priority.

Largo 100% hit    24% crit

Gunther 74% hit    0% crit

ROUND 1

Gunther (Conquest) struck dealing 19 damage!

Largo counter attacks dealing 27 damage!

Largo attacks again dealing 27 damage!

Gunther (Conquest) is dead.

Largo HP = 42

So yeah, that's pretty much as expected. If we throw skills into the mix then Gunther gets Armoured Blow, Luna and Elbow Rooms, all useful skills...still won't stop Largo doubling and one rounding him though. Plut Largo has a chance to proc Colossus too.

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1 hour ago, defensedefumer said:

I never played awakening, but i heard Frederick is a beast in that game. So Gunter has no chance.

Gunter just can’t catch a break huh? Maybe we should send him against Jeigan then.

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1 hour ago, Whisky said:

Gunter just can’t catch a break huh? Maybe we should send him against Jeigan then.

Gunther is a modern Jeigan in a game that has some of the highest stat inflation there is. So under a max stat system he is quite possibly the worse unit in the series. Only other Jeigans like Jeigan, Arran and Binding Blade Marcus could he possible stand a chance against. Maybe a joke character like Shannam, maybe.

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20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Gunther is a modern Jeigan in a game that has some of the highest stat inflation there is. So under a max stat system he is quite possibly the worse unit in the series. Only other Jeigans like Jeigan, Arran and Binding Blade Marcus could he possible stand a chance against. Maybe a joke character like Shannam, maybe.

I don’t really know what that term means though. Some people call FE7 Marcus, Seth, and Titania ‘jeigans’ too.

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3 hours ago, Whisky said:

I don’t really know what that term means though. Some people call FE7 Marcus, Seth, and Titania ‘jeigans’ too.

Bit of poor terminology there. I called Gunther a modern Jeigan. I should have said he's a classic Jeigan. Ever since Blazing Blade most Jeigan characters have been designed to be useable throughout the entire game where's before that they were intended to fall off eventually. Gunther was a return to a true Jeigan in the sense that he is simply not designed to be able to compete against end game foes. Common term for the more modern Jeigans is Oifey's after the Genealogy character. Course these are all fan terms and they're only useful if everyone is on the same page with what they mean. So to just sum up succinctly, Gunther is waaaaay behind the averages of all the other characters in Fates and most units in the series are not designed to be that bad (at end game).

Edited by Jotari
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