Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 2: Hubert

[Benice]

 

Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse.

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Edelgard: 9

 

Day 2: Hubert

[Gordin]

6.2/10

He's a good mage sure but he doesn't bring much that other mages can't bring. The dark mage and bishop lines were made for him but they're kinda shit and worse than mage>Warlock so there's no real reason to go into them. He's decent and certainly usable but he doesn't bring anything all the other mages can't bring. The bad faith list and bane hurts a lot. You have no real reason to bring him instead of the other mages. That said, if you don't want to recruit Lysithea and don't have the DLC he makes a decent Death Knight nuke with Dark Spikes so he's got that going for him. (And that 1-3 spell early game is very nice I admit)

Edited October 10, 2020 by Gordin

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hubert is a respectable magic unit but well short of the best, even before the DLC landed and gave other mages more options than him.

Let's start with the good: Hubert has a good magic stat, at 12+55% it's roughly on par with Lysithea for the best in the game. In fact, his stats are reasonably solid overall, if short of outstanding: his speed is on the high end for mages (doesn't say much), his charm is okay, his bulk is unimpressive but well above the worst mages for this.

He has several ways to use this magic stat which are nice. He gets Mire at D+ Reason, which he can potentially snag by chapter 2, and certainly by chapter 3, giving him quick access to 3 range (the quickest of any unit, though Dorothea comes close). This is a notable advantage over mages like Lysithea and Annette. Mire's power is a bit low, but fortunately he also gets Death as well, later. He also gets Banshee, which allows him to seal the move of any enemy with move <= 5 (in the first half of the game, this is everyone except mounted units). And finally he gets Frozen Lance, after just three tutoring sessions in lances (i.e. in chapter 3 or 4, most likely). Off of Hubert's good stats this attack is devastating, often claiming OHKOs until enemy res+HP climbs fast near the end of the game.

Now for the drawbacks. First, his class options. Prior to Level 30, his class options limit him in a big way: he has no access to Dark Tomefaire, so his magic lead will be eroded if he goes Warlock and gets to watch other mages get +5 damage which he does not. Despite his magic stat, he trails Dorothea by 4 damage at Level 21 using his three-range tomes; he trails Marianne by 6. With two-range tomes, he's held back by topping out the 13-might Dark Spikes, so again he trails characters like Dorothea and even Lorenz at this stage in the game. You can go Paladin to get Lancefaire on his Frozen Lance, and I often do, but this involves giving up all his skillset and other advantages until you reach Level 30 (snagging Arrow of Indra helps, at least), making him a one-trick pony who can claim OHKOs at range 1 but is fragile. Level 30 is certainly a big help to him, but since he's locked to Crimson Flower, the game doesn't go on much longer after he reaches that. We're not considering the DLC for this, but it's worth mentioning that if you do, Hubert tumbles a bit further, because the female mages get even more options at Advanced tier which he lacks.

His other problem is his garbage Faith list. Magic units have advantages (ignoring terrain, targeting res, faith utility) and disadvantages (worse stats, worse mobility, lack of double-hit attacks) compared to physical units. Hubert doesn't bring much to the table in terms of faith utility. When both his magical competition in the Eagles have Physic, that's a notable minus. And the temptation to replace him with Lysithea (Warp), Marianne (Physic and Silence), or Mercedes (Physic and Fortify) from another house is notable.

In summary, Hubert is pretty good as an offensive mage, but not without flaws. It works out to an average unit overall. 5/10.

[Garsoba]

x

Edited October 16, 2020 by Garsoba

[Zapp Branniglenn]

His first few chapters are pretty good with early access to Mire. While everybody tries to crowd around a target he can stand an additional space away and that's very valuable when everybody still has 4 Mov and he doesn't want to be near the frontline to begin with. His personal skill is of similar use early on, 5 additional damage on gambits is no joke when it normally takes 3-4 of your guys to kill one enemy if Byleth and Edelgard are busy. Mire's defense debuff also really ramps up the damage of gauntlet users on the crew, like Caspar or M! Byleth. Faith weakness hurts though since it would be nice to have another way of earning exp. Mages have a very hard time leveling up in those early maps. Plus dark magic is notoriously unreliable in terms of accuracy. Expect 60-70 in any stage of the game where support bonuses are C or below. When he misses one of those four spell charges on a kill you set up, it's heartbreaking, and may cost you a Pulse/game over if nobody's around to pick up the kill. Hubert's only available in one route, but it's a starting roster that really prompts the player to ditch one of their magic users. I'd certainly still use him to set up kills for others, but I don't see a compelling reason to stick with him long term with those mid game class options. Outside of a good early game, he always seemed like Lorenz but with less utility and bulk. If Edelgard isn't going pegasus knight at 10, maybe he can be her guard adjutant for a few chapters by classing into armor knight. 3.5/10.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Sooks]

6.5/10

His start isn’t bad, his base magic is high and he has the quickest access to three range of any magic user (I believe), which is very helpful for early game. His growths are solid too, and of the “canon” mages he has the second highest speed growth, only being topped by LYSITHEA. So he’s certainly serviceable, however, he gets outclassed by other magic units fairly quickly. After mire, the only particularly noteworthy spell list in his repertoire is Dark Spikes, dealing effective magic damage against cavs, which he learns at reason level A. In comparison, the only other character in the game who learns it, Lysithea, learns it at B. This spell is particularly well known for wrecking the death knight, but the only incentives to do this are exp and bragging rights. You can receive dark seals from doing this, which allow male units to certify for dark mage and dark bishop, which many say is the class basically made for Hubert, as he is a pretty competent dark bishop. However, he won’t get dark tomefaire until either reaching S+ reason (max rank, which is very hard on Crimson Flower because only 18 chapters) or certifying for dark knight (good luck with that neutral in riding), whereas your black magic units will get it in the advanced class warlock, which will edge out their damage output above his usually, I would feel. His superior growths might make him seem great, 55% in magic and 45% in speed, his spell list is mediocre and inaccurate due to being dark magic, and other units have fantastic spell lists. And his faith utility is basically nonexistent. In my opinion, worse growths and way better spell lists > a mediocre spell list and higher growths. He’s certainly serviceable if you want to use him though, by no means a bad unit.

TL;DR He has nice stats but his spell list and focus on dark magic hold him back, causing magic damage potential to be higher elsewhere.

Apparently he can OHKO things with Frozen Lance, but so can units who can take a hit so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bartozio]

6/10

I think most things have already been said but:

Early game everyone wants to get 3 range asap, and he gets there pretty easily, only needing to train reason from D to D+. His 3-range spells having debuff effects is great as well, and they do a solid amount of damage compared to what your other units are dishing out at that point in time.

He also has an authority boon, so between that and his personal skill, he's pretty nice to use gambits with as well.

He falls of a lot later on though, because he gets no good faith spells, and when other units start one rounding enemies, magic chip becomes a lot less useful. He can still be made to work with frozen lance (which he can start using pretty early), but then he just does what other units can do as well, only with less bulk. He could become a gambit bot I guess, but his weakness in flying hurts a lot in that regard...

Basically, good early game, but he becomes more of a filler later on.

[Barren]

Hubert is an interesting case for me. As others said, he is the only one that can make the dark mage/dark bishop class work. This is a class similar to Hero is gender locked to males only. On the one hand, getting dark seals could be worth it for him as gaining heartseeker which is a -20 avoid debuff for the enemy works nicely with his officer's duty ability granting him extra might with his battalions and having an authority boon allows him to gain access to better battalions early in the game. He can also make good use with frozen lance as he has a budding talent in lances. His reason spell list isn't too shabby either considering that ranged debuffing magic can be helpful early on.

However The Dark Bishop class is incredibly niche this time around. As getting dark seals from the death knight is more of a chore and honestly not really worth taking him on. He is mandatory to take on by part 2 and on the crimson flower path you get a dark seal for free anyways. Though you need two to get dark mage then dark bishop so if you want to get the dark bishop you would need to defeat him at least once then wait until beginning of crimson flower to get your hands on another one. Honestly, Dark Bishop just doesn't cut the mustard in this one. In a game where movement is among one of the best traits to have in a class being stuck at 4 move, ranged magic or no is still pretty bad.

Dark Knight is pretty much his best option if you plan on using him for part 2. Losing heartseeker is personally nothing to lose sleep over has siege tome support is usually enough to deal with hit rate issues. He feels like a 6/10 unit to me. Not bad early on, and perfectly serviceable for part 2 but can be easily replaced by another dark magic user like Lysithea or Hapi

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Gordin said:

6.2/10

He's a good mage sure but he doesn't bring much that other mages can't bring. The dark mage and bishop lines were made for him but they're kinda shit and worse than mage>Warlock so there's no real reason to go into them. He's decent and certainly usable but he doesn't bring anything all the other mages can't bring. The bad faith list and bane hurts a lot. You have no real reason to bring him instead of the other mages. That said, if you don't want to recruit Lysithea and don't have the DLC he makes a decent Death Knight nuke with Dark Spikes so he's got that going for him. (And that 1-3 spell early game is very nice I admit)

Bold: Can he even get A Reason by that point? Because assuming you go on to Crimson Flower, the only route where he's playable, the last time you see Donkey Kong is in chapter 8.

[Anathaco]

I'm honestly not sure whether I should participate in this one because I have a severe lack of experience with Hubert and other have basically covered all the points I would make, but 5/10

Not great, but not awful. Perfectly mediocre.

He has a good spell list, including Mire, Banshee and Dark Spikes- Banshee in particular is a great spell that people don't talk about enough (like a ctrl + f revealed that the word Banshee has appeared 5 times on this page, and 4 of those are me saying it). It's basically a free rattle on one enemy for the first 6 or so maps of the game, since only units with 6 (? I think) move or more can still move a little after getting hit. The first cavs you see in the game (other than DK) is the one in DK's room in chapter 6, so you basically have until then where Banshee just locks down every enemy you face. Mire and Dark Spikes, as many others in the thread have pointed out, are great spells to have. Frozen Lance is a nice bonus if you want to train him in lances, and can be used to wreak havoc on enemies, especially after Fiendish Blow.

But other than this stuff he doesn't have too much else going for him. Poor Faith access and list, poor bulk, speed is undermined by low strength and high weight of his spells, etc. He's pretty good in the early game, but once OHKO's become much harder to come by (even for Frozen Lance), and Banshee loses a fair bit of effectiveness, he falls off quite a bit.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Anathaco

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Can he even get A Reason by that point? Because assuming you go on to Crimson Flower, the only route where he's playable, the last time you see Donkey Kong is in chapter 8.

It's possible but requires some definite focus. There are 18 weeks before Chapter 8. If Hubert trains Reason as one of his goals for all of them, that's 24x18 = 432. If you tutor him in 2/3 of those weeks (my general assumption for calculations) and you have Macuil statue's +1 reason for half of them, that's 12x6.5x(about 6) = 468 more, bringing him up to 1000. So he'd need another 320 which is probably around 80 combats (depending on time spent in each class), which is... a lot at that point. You'd probably want to tutor him a couple more weeks just to ensure you get there, or do some double-focus reason for some of this interval. Or play on a non-maddening difficulty and/or use the sauna DLC. So there are lots of way to make it happen, but you'd have to prioritize it.

And seeing as Donkey Kong is just as easily killed by Knightkneeler from the Lance of Ruin, there's no need to make such an investment IMO unless the reason is for fun.

[Benice]

And voting is done! Tomorrow, the noblest of nobles, FERDINAND VON AEGIR, will be subject to scrutiny!

[Punished Dayni]

It was less than 24 hours!

I guess I missed it, but alright, I'll still do a piece:

Spoiler

His bases aren't anything worth writing home about, with only his magic being worth much at 12. As for his growth rates, he has one of the best mag and res growths in the game, actually pretty good spd and dex growths (he has higher speed than Edelgard, you'd expect his to be bad) and the rest are low compared to others in this game. Really, I would say that Hubert is quite in type with the mages in that I wouldn't expect him to have exceptional growths, but the fact that Lysithea of all units only has 5% more growth means I wouldn't make it a point that ruins him.

With his strengths and weaknesses, he ain't flying and no axe access seem to suggest there's no way we use him for physical classes right? You'd be mostly right, but he has one trick to consider: Sniper. Why is that? Not only is bow a strength, but he is one of the units most suited to the Magic Bow-Hunter's Volley combo, giving a very strong magical option that can be made with plenty of time to spare. He also has a budding Talent for Lances, which when unlocked should make it easier to get the C Lance rank needed for the mounted mage classes, while also giving him the combat art Frozen Lance. His authority strength is also nice as he's one of the ralliers and he does get Battalion Wrath, which can be nice in the right circumstances with Death.

He's got a solid Reason List, with the default spell Miasma, Mire giving extra range, Banshee reducing opponent's move by 1 turn, Death having range and increased crit and Dark Spikes being a delete horse button. He has Faith spells, I guess, with the base two and Recover he has no reason to ever worry about raising Faith. Being male he's the only unit who actually benefits from the Dark Mage classes while in them for their skills, although Dark Bishop hasn't got much going for it due to lacking any multiplier for magic usage or dark magicfaire, though stacking Fiendish Blow can be useful too.

His personal skill is Officer's Duty which gives him Might +5 for gambits, which is a nice little boost to the damage he can deal with them. And with being crestless, let's move on.

His combat art list is pretty small, with Heavy Draw (ranged Tempest Lance), Schism Shot (Reduces foe's res by 5) and Frozen Lance (which is based off his much better magic), while unexceptional magic combat arts can be useful and the magic bow can use the bow combat arts too. Meanwhile, he actually has a good skill list in authority, getting 3 rallies (Mag, Res and Spd (the S rank)) and Battalion Wrath. Shame he gets Desperation instead of Vantage, that would have been a cool niche.

One neat thing I'll add is that he can get access to the Arrow Of Indra, the only magic lance in the game, from his paralogue. Being that this is the one route where you can actually use it, it's worth considering having in case Hubert runs low on magic spells somehow and it can use Frozen Lance.

How did I find him?

Spoiler

He's a unit I would say is alright, but I was playing Hard on CF, so make of that what you will. Aside from his obvious magical strength, he can still fall upon rallying and his potential for Magic Hunter's Volley is not something to sneeze at. All that being said he's not exactly a do or die unit. He's always been somewhat limited as a unit and that still applies even with his strengths, but even if you don't make him a main unit he still has rallies and he does more damage with battalions and Magic Hunter's Volley can still be used with all that I mentioned.

His rally access alongside his strengths are why I can consider giving him 6/10, but no more than that. He kind of inflexible and there's not much that can be done with him, but it's not like he's incapable of doing something with what he has.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Dayni

[SumG]

Hubert struggles to find a good endgame class, though that's less of an issue considering the only route he's playable in is also the shortest route.  I do think the utility of Hubert falls off a bit towards the end of the game as other mages fully come online.  However, in the early parts of the game, particularly on Maddening, he's really good.  He's tremendously strong and he picks up a pair of 3 range spells very early.  It stinks that he has a bane in faith and no access to physic, which makes him a non-factor for healing purposes.

So in short, Hubert is a powerhouse in the early game, good in the midgame, and OK in the endgame.  His healing is bad, but it doesn't matter too much since he should be attacking most of the time anyway.  And he doesn't have a good endgame class.  I'd say that balances out to 6.5/10 on routes where you can use him.