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What if At the Holy Tomb


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I’ve been wondering about a 5th potential path in CF where it’s a variation of CF. What if Byleth after fusing with Sothis would have went to a doctor on a weekend after Edelgard coronation as Adrestian Empire and got their Crestone in their heart Remove and Destroyed.And the Holy Tomb after the Battle they are forced to choose but gives a smile to Edelgard and fakes a sword whipped swing but kills Rhea Instead how would things change in the Timeskip.Here are the Rules 1 # Byleth Heart starts beat after destroying the crestone and Rhea dies at the Holy Tomb. Byleth destroys the SotC afterward and doesn’t go to sleep since early Sothis Removal. I’m curious about you guys takes on this hypothesis. How would you write this what if ?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/10/2020 at 11:26 PM, NaotoUzumaki said:

I’ve been wondering about a 5th potential path in CF where it’s a variation of CF. What if Byleth after fusing with Sothis would have went to a doctor on a weekend after Edelgard coronation as Adrestian Empire and got their Crestone in their heart Remove and Destroyed.And the Holy Tomb after the Battle they are forced to choose but gives a smile to Edelgard and fakes a sword whipped swing but kills Rhea Instead how would things change in the Timeskip.Here are the Rules 1 # Byleth Heart starts beat after destroying the crestone and Rhea dies at the Holy Tomb. Byleth destroys the SotC afterward and doesn’t go to sleep since early Sothis Removal. I’m curious about you guys takes on this hypothesis. How would you write this what if ?

For starters, I'm not sure that Byleth would survive having their Crest stone straight-up removed. Especially that early on, and in the care of a doctor we know nothing about.

But lets say it does work, and Rhea is killed. Edelgard, Hubert, and Byleth escape together. The other Black Eagles... I don't know if they would come along. Presumably, in this version, she never transformed. From their perspective, their teacher just assassinated their headmistress! I imagine they would be shocked, at the least.

Edelgard still declares war on the Church, which is now headed by Seteth. He swears that Rhea will be avenged. The other Black Eagles likely return home to their own houses, while the Golden Deer and Blue Lions stay to defend Garreg Mach. Edelgard still has forces like Randolph, Ladislava, and Those Who Slither on her side. The fighting is fierce, but in the end, Garreg Mach falls. Seteth is killed defending it, Dimitri dies after a direct assault on Edelgard, and Flayn and Claude both flee.

With the Kingdom in mourning, Cornelia executes her plot, killing Rufus and blaming... Rodrigue? Gilbert? Duscur? It doesn't really matter. The civil war happens, as it did in other routes, but Cornelia has the clear advantage, winning the Kingdom for Those Who Slither.

The Alliance attempts to maintain its neutrality in matters of war, while harboring refugees pf the Church. The Eastern Church grows into the new Church of Seiros, with Flayn's involvement - but on a much smaller scale. Still, Almyra pounds at the Locket, leading some to advocate for a union with the Empire.

Speaking of which, Edelgard has basically succeeded - the soft coup worked, and Rhea is no more. Nonetheless, she sees in former Church members a threat to her reign - and to the Professor who stands beside her. So she breaks up the Church within the Empire, and banishes its Priests (many of whom flee to the Alliance). She encourages Cornelia, her ally, to do the same in the Kingdom.

At one point, her advisor and uncle, Lord Arundel, takes a vacation. Though the Emperor is busy with court life, she insists - he needs it, with all the hard work he's done. Edelgard never sees them coming - Javelins of Light, crashing into the palace! Edelgard, Hubert, and Byleth are all killed instantly. A few days later, a somber Lord Arundel returns to Enbarr, to function as regent. Revealing that the attacks were an act of revenge by the remnants of the Church, he declares war on the nation holding them - the Alliance.

In this way, all of Fodlan comes under the thumb of Those Who Slither in the Dark. For years, the people will wonder if the Ashen Demon knew what they had wrought, in killing the Archbishop.

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11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Mostly seems very plausible, until the part where the javelins of light accomplish anything useful for those who slither. Obviously non-canon.

That is fair - the Javelins of light are always decent enough to either A) give their prospective victims a chance to escape imminent immolation, or B) ensure at least one of their targets is capable of pulling bullshit anti-nuke powers directly out of their posterior.

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/10/2020 at 11:26 PM, NaotoUzumaki said:

What if Byleth after fusing with Sothis would have went to a doctor on a weekend after Edelgard coronation as Adrestian Empire and got their Crestone in their heart Remove and Destroyed.And the Holy Tomb after the Battle they are forced to choose but gives a smile to Edelgard and fakes a sword whipped swing but kills Rhea Instead

The crest stone is what allows Byleth to use the SotC to begin with though. Without it, the sword's just a really heavy hunk of bone. At the end of CF (in her paired ending with Jeritza iirc) after the stone disappears, she's actually shown using the Seiros Sword instead since the stone-less SotC is useless.

Also, Rhea's a Nabatean. Even in her "human" form, she's still an insanely powerful dragon. I'm not sure one swing of the sword, even if it was at full strength, would be enough to kill her.

On 10/27/2020 at 11:58 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

At one point, her advisor and uncle, Lord Arundel, takes a vacation. Though the Emperor is busy with court life, she insists - he needs it, with all the hard work he's done. Edelgard never sees them coming - Javelins of Light, crashing into the palace! Edelgard, Hubert, and Byleth are all killed instantly. A few days later, a somber Lord Arundel returns to Enbarr, to function as regent. Revealing that the attacks were an act of revenge by the remnants of the Church, he declares war on the nation holding them - the Alliance.

Hubert knows exactly who Arundel is though. And I doubt any of them, especially Edelgard, would just forget about TWSITD like that. As soon as the Church was out of the picture, Arundales would be at the top of Hubie's to-shank list before he could even set foot outside of Enbarr.

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On 12/2/2020 at 10:19 AM, RainbowMoon said:

Hubert knows exactly who Arundel is though. And I doubt any of them, especially Edelgard, would just forget about TWSITD like that. As soon as the Church was out of the picture, Arundales would be at the top of Hubie's to-shank list before he could even set foot outside of Enbarr.

My basic idea, in this version, is that Edelgard still views the remnant of the Church (and the Alliance who harbors them) as the biggest threat to her rule, and to a unified Fodlan. She remembers Those Who Slither, but she wants to keep using them to get rid of her political opponents. Not to mention, killing Arundel risks shattering her alliance with Cornelia, thus turning the Kingdom against her. For Arundel, however, his biggest foe has been vanquished. So, displacing the Emperor, and her servants, in order to lead in his own right, is easy calculus.

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49 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

My basic idea, in this version, is that Edelgard still views the remnant of the Church (and the Alliance who harbors them) as the biggest threat to her rule, and to a unified Fodlan. She remembers Those Who Slither, but she wants to keep using them to get rid of her political opponents

I don't really see why this would be the case. Edelgard only really cares about Rhea, as she's the one responsible for the crest system and letting TWSITD roam free. Anyone else Edelgard ends up fighting with (like Dimitri), it's because they've sided with Rhea. With Rhea gone and the Church defeated, I doubt she'd care that much about a bunch of random priests who don't have any real power or influence (anyone else big like Catherine would've almost certainly died trying to avenge Rhea) and are probably just searching for new purpose in life. Certainly not enough anyway to still see Arundel as worth keeping alive.

50 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not to mention, killing Arundel risks shattering her alliance with Cornelia, thus turning the Kingdom against her.

Considering she goes out of her way on CF to get rid of Cornelia, I don't think this would really concern her. With Dimitri dead and without Byleth or Rhea to lead them, the Kingdom's anti-Imperial faction would remain in complete shambles (as bad as, if not worse than on VW) and unable to accomplish anything. Edelgard could easily just take out Cornelia and put someone else like Count Bergliez in charge instead.

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4 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

don't really see why this would be the case. Edelgard only really cares about Rhea, as she's the one responsible for the crest system and letting TWSITD roam free. Anyone else Edelgard ends up fighting with (like Dimitri), it's because they've sided with Rhea. With Rhea gone and the Church defeated, I doubt she'd care that much about a bunch of random priests who don't have any real power or influence (anyone else big like Catherine would've almost certainly died trying to avenge Rhea) and are probably just searching for new purpose in life. Certainly not enough anyway to still see Arundel as worth keeping alive.

Edelgard doesn't merely want to remove Rhea from power, though. She wishes to unify Fodlan, and abolish the old order. That's one of her reasons for invading the Alliance (both in CF and AM, routes in which the Alliance was technically neutral in the war). In CF, she's fortunate enough that defeating Rhea functionally means taking over the Kingdom (after achieving the same in the Alliance). In this hypothetical route, though, there's still a part of Fodlan where the Crest/nobility system is still practiced, under the old Church principles. So her work is not yet done.

5 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Considering she goes out of her way on CF to get rid of Cornelia, I don't think this would really concern her. With Dimitri dead and without Byleth or Rhea to lead them, the Kingdom's anti-Imperial faction would remain in complete shambles (as bad as, if not worse than on VW) and unable to accomplish anything. Edelgard could easily just take out Cornelia and put someone else like Count Bergliez in charge instead.

On CF, she's again lucky - Cornelia is fighting for her enemy, and thereby a valid military target. Attacking Arianrhod, especially when Fhirdiad is the broadcast target, makes good tactical sense. But in this hypothetical, she's the leader of an allied nation (whom, at the very least, Edie can count on to be anti-Church). In the long-run, Edelgard would almost certainly desire the Kingdom coming into union with the Empire. But right now, Cornelia isn't her subordinate, whom she can simply dismiss. And attempting to assassinate her - much less, replace her with an Imperial General - directly invites a war between their countries (as those loyal to Cornelia unite with the anti-Imperial "shambles" to oppose such an intervention).

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13 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Edelgard doesn't merely want to remove Rhea from power, though. She wishes to unify Fodlan, and abolish the old order. That's one of her reasons for invading the Alliance (both in CF and AM, routes in which the Alliance was technically neutral in the war). In CF, she's fortunate enough that defeating Rhea functionally means taking over the Kingdom (after achieving the same in the Alliance). In this hypothetical route, though, there's still a part of Fodlan where the Crest/nobility system is still practiced, under the old Church principles. So her work is not yet done.

Ah, I see what you mean. It's not enough to just get rid of Rhea if Fodlan isn't united under one banner, since that just creates a power vaccum and leads to more chaos and death. Which is the exact opposite of what Edelgard wants. A unified Fodlan is necessary, even if her ultimate goal is simply to end Rhea's rule, so that society remains stable after the fact. One thing I'd point out though is that in CF and AM, Claude was actually feigning his neutrality in the war while leading the anti-Imperial faction within the Alliance. So Derdriu was in fact a strategic military target that needed to be dealt with before invading the Kingdom.

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

On CF, she's again lucky - Cornelia is fighting for her enemy, and thereby a valid military target. Attacking Arianrhod, especially when Fhirdiad is the broadcast target, makes good tactical sense. But in this hypothetical, she's the leader of an allied nation (whom, at the very least, Edie can count on to be anti-Church). In the long-run, Edelgard would almost certainly desire the Kingdom coming into union with the Empire. But right now, Cornelia isn't her subordinate, whom she can simply dismiss. And attempting to assassinate her - much less, replace her with an Imperial General - directly invites a war between their countries (as those loyal to Cornelia unite with the anti-Imperial "shambles" to oppose such an intervention).

Again, really good point. I guess for this one, it all depends on a couple of things: How public Cornelia's death is made, and who the "Cornelia loyalists" are truly loyal to (the Empire or TWSITD). If Hubert discreetly makes Cornelia "disappear" and Edelgard sends in Bergliez as a replacement, then they can cover it up by explaining that she's been "reassigned" or that she was implicated in an act of treason and executed (that second one's not even really a lie). If the loyalists follow the Empire, which I'd assume they do since TWSITD is such an unknown, then they probably wouldn't care that much. If they are in fact TWSITD, then Edelgard's got trouble.

In the end though, I think there's just too much left up in the air to really say one way or the other. Makes for a really interesting discussion though! I'd definitely play this route if I could.

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58 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Ah, I see what you mean. It's not enough to just get rid of Rhea if Fodlan isn't united under one banner, since that just creates a power vaccum and leads to more chaos and death. Which is the exact opposite of what Edelgard wants. A unified Fodlan is necessary, even if her ultimate goal is simply to end Rhea's rule, so that society remains stable after the fact. One thing I'd point out though is that in CF and AM, Claude was actually feigning his neutrality in the war while leading the anti-Imperial faction within the Alliance. So Derdriu was in fact a strategic military target that needed to be dealt with before invading the Kingdom.

Generally agreed, in terms of Edelgard's ultimate goals. She's an ambitious visionary, and even with her will, a lot of factors have to align to make her vision a reality. As for Claude, it's tricky - while his personal sympathies lay against the Empire, he doesn't clearly act against the Empire. At worst, he prevents Count Gloucester from aiding the Empire - but it's not clear how, or if him doing so is within his authority as "head of the Alliance". So the Alliance, as a whole, is technically a neutral power - although, I won't contest that Edelgard's invasion works out to the Empire's favor.

1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Again, really good point. I guess for this one, it all depends on a couple of things: How public Cornelia's death is made, and who the "Cornelia loyalists" are truly loyal to (the Empire or TWSITD). If Hubert discreetly makes Cornelia "disappear" and Edelgard sends in Bergliez as a replacement, then they can cover it up by explaining that she's been "reassigned" or that she was implicated in an act of treason and executed (that second one's not even really a lie). If the loyalists follow the Empire, which I'd assume they do since TWSITD is such an unknown, then they probably wouldn't care that much. If they are in fact TWSITD, then Edelgard's got trouble.

Re: "Cornelia loyalists", I'm not referring to the Slithers, but to people like Gwendal and Count Rowe. Basically, people who supported (or at least went along with) the coup, who - while likely pro-Empire - want the Kingdom to continue existing as a (technically) independent state. They may support Cornelia, given her prominent role with the Faerghus royal family, but would almost certainly rebel against a direct imposition of authority by a foreign government. 

For a real-world comparison, think Vichy France - they sided with the Nazis, in order to retain nominal independence. And when the Nazis took over, they scuttled their Mediterranean fleet, to prevent their occupiers from using it.

1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

In the end though, I think there's just too much left up in the air to really say one way or the other. Makes for a really interesting discussion though! I'd definitely play this route if I could.

Definitely, it's a fun thought exercise, at least! Although, the route I proposed would probably be boring to play. Too peaceful, or at least not quite belligerent enough.

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On 12/4/2020 at 11:18 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Re: "Cornelia loyalists", I'm not referring to the Slithers, but to people like Gwendal and Count Rowe. Basically, people who supported (or at least went along with) the coup, who - while likely pro-Empire - want the Kingdom to continue existing as a (technically) independent state. They may support Cornelia, given her prominent role with the Faerghus royal family, but would almost certainly rebel against a direct imposition of authority by a foreign government. 

For a real-world comparison, think Vichy France - they sided with the Nazis, in order to retain nominal independence. And when the Nazis took over, they scuttled their Mediterranean fleet, to prevent their occupiers from using it.

Just to add to you fact, Vichy France's president, Philippe Pétain, wanted to keep France neutral. But Pierre Jean Marie Laval, his Vice president advocated to join the Nazis. Pétain forced Laval out, but Hitler made him reinstate him and later, both were arrested and taken to Germany and held till the end of the war. Though, both were tried for treason upon their return to France, ironiclly, Laval was executed by firing squad while Pétain was to spend the rest of his life in prison, on the orders of then president de Gaulle. (This was mainly due to his age)

In the case presented here for Three Houses, TWSITD would quickly have filled the spot with someone else, who could have been hidden within the empire's forces or an advisor to one of the Co-belligerence forces, always to make sure that there was a fail safe to their plans.

Edited by KKAfterbrun
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People talk about the stone, but it (somehow) dissapear at the end of CF and Byleth is fine, so...
It means no Sword of the Creator, that's fine, but the most important thing needed is characters who freaking knows about Byleth's lack of heartbeat and actually talking about it.

 

On 12/2/2020 at 4:19 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Also, Rhea's a Nabatean. Even in her "human" form, she's still an insanely powerful dragon. I'm not sure one swing of the sword, even if it was at full strength, would be enough to kill her

Nemesis apparently did it with looooooots of dragons though.

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  • 4 weeks later...

as others already said, i don't think this hypothetical 5th route would have plausible justifications

i mean yeah, Byleth and the player are constantly reminded how Rhea has a dangerous/mysterious side, but i don't think Byleth necessarily believes she's dangerous enough to be killed, even more so when he/she doesn't know WHAT exactly makes her so dangerous yet, and her guard is at the lowest; i mean, she's still the reason why Byleth is teaching at Garreg Mach to begin with, that must mean something to him/her
also, from a gameplay perspective, Byleth can reach A support level with Rhea before the timeskip happens: killing her without hesitation just seems... unreasonable? even schizophrenic, dare i say, and since 3H is the FE game which handles the connection between supports and story progression the best, that would simply result in a pretty serious flaw

now that i think about it, Byleth is the single 3H character who generally acts the most reasonably

to be completely, 100% blunt, this just looks like a bunch of bad premises for a 3H fanfic
no offense intended, of course, but that's simply what it looks like to me

Edited by Yexin
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5 minutes ago, Yexin said:

now that i think about it, Byleth is the single 3H character who generally acts the most reasonably

Ngl, I think that title goes to either Jeralt or Sothis, not Byleth. Even Byleth makes some pretty questionable calls here and there, especially with things concerning Rhea (her sudden VW/SS Cyril syndrome) or TWSITD (Chapter 10 in a nutshell). Jeralt and Sothis always take the most reasonable approach, never jump to conclusions about anybody without knowing the whole story and never lose their cool even when things go south (or in Sothis's case, only lose their cool for a second because someone else, usually Byleth, screwed up). And naturally, they just happen to be the two people the game decides "yep, they gotta go" before part 2 rolls around and all hell breaks loose.

Aaaand now it just dawned on me that Sothis would've made a much more interesting protagonist than Byleth.

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True but they are clues given To Byleth about not trusting  Rhea. #1 : Jeralt was an Ex knight and knows of Sitri Aka his wife being the 12th vessal.  # 2 in VW claude finds in the library a book with a picture of the immaculate one (Rhea Dragon Form) and Seteth destroys it. 3 # Jeralt is never on a mission with Byleth other then the 1st mock battle the battle of the eagle and lions as a text box Only and on his npc mission dies. So out of 13 part of white cloud  Jeralt is 3 times on mission with Byleth OUTSIDE the monastery. Rhea moniters  their interactions. 4 # After getting green haired Byleth Setheth says the child though To have died has come black To us and rhea shut him  up. # 1 #3 & # 4 are all on every route 

Edited by NaotoUzumaki
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3 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Ngl, I think that title goes to either Jeralt or Sothis, not Byleth. Even Byleth makes some pretty questionable calls here and there, especially with things concerning Rhea (her sudden VW/SS Cyril syndrome) or TWSITD (Chapter 10 in a nutshell). Jeralt and Sothis always take the most reasonable approach, never jump to conclusions about anybody without knowing the whole story and never lose their cool even when things go south (or in Sothis's case, only lose their cool for a second because someone else, usually Byleth, screwed up). And naturally, they just happen to be the two people the game decides "yep, they gotta go" before part 2 rolls around and all hell breaks loose.

Aaaand now it just dawned on me that Sothis would've made a much more interesting protagonist than Byleth.

well actually you're right, i think i worded that line pretty poorly

what i mean is that, especially when compared to Edelgard, Dimitri and their serious mental problems, Byleth is ironically one of the most plot-relevant characters who generally acts the most reasonably

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On 1/7/2021 at 3:48 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Aaaand now it just dawned on me that Sothis would've made a much more interesting protagonist than Byleth.

Sothis secretly is the protagonist. When the Professor "dies", she's still able to Divine Pulse them right back to life. And she's able to see the aggro lines coming from enemies. Or, so I speculate.

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