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On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Laguz stones are useful if Laguz need to see immediate action. If they can wait until transformation or chomp one olivi grass and wait 2 turns, so they are transforming on turn 3, then they can reck shit as soon as turn 3. Between a Beorc who will be killed by a boss crit and a Laguz that will kill or simply deal 30-50% of the boss' HP without taking meaningful damage (11-33 is 23-60-ish % of Haar's HP pool just in 1 boss hit, sure Mordecai isn't available yet which I had forgotten but Haar can be 2HKOd by 3-2 boss while Mordy would be 4HKOd by the same boss, and later bosses have even more attack so the highest def/HP the better).

Dude. Are you even talking about the same game I am? Because Haar is most definitely NOT 2HKOed by the boss in 3-2. Also, said boss is easily put in his place by a sword user - it doesn't matter how hard you can hit if you miss, after all. Also, the number of times bosses have crit chances that are actually worth worrying about is one I can count on one hand (2-3, 3-1, 3-4. All of whom are either melee locked or immobile). And if I did see a high crit boss, the absolute worst units to engage them with would be laguz, which are melee-locked.

On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

(((Seth has 19-21 speed at best at level 20 (21 is massive RNG blessing and 45% has more chance of being RNG screwed than blessed). I think the heroes in chapter 17 have 18 speed, if not then the swordmasters and heroes in chapter 19 certainly do have 18 to 21 speed. If one of them has 21 speed, even capped Seth can't double them, thus he can't kill them in 1 rund and can also take a silver sword swordmaster crit (silver sword has like 13 damage, swordmasters have around 13-14 strength at least, which brings them to deal 26-27 damage minimum to Seth, -19 or 21 def =7-8 non crit, 5-6 if dragonshielded, or 21-24 on crit, 15-18 if dragonshielded). Seth can't do everything and if he only gets critted once and takes too many ennemies on the same turn (which can happen easily in ch19 due to ****ing FoW and massive ennemy density with reinforcements, and great knights who hit Seth deal at least 10 no crit damage to him, more probably 12-15). Seth is also vulnerable to beastkillers, halberds and zambato, there are like 3 zambato in Eirika's campaign from the beginning to the end, at least 2 halberds and 1 or 2 beastkillers, meaning Seth risks being gangbang killed up to 7x in the game just from effective weaponry, well make it 6 because in ch6 he probably won't die from it but without an elixir he can die if he doesn't heal before the boss who has like 11-12 damage on him with semi-reliable accuracy). Seth's caps limit him even if he gets all the legit stat boosters and in Seth Emblem he misses half of them because he doesn't loose turns and buy keys to open chests to find a +2 strength or +2 def item, which means he's also missing his only average caps by a few points. 14 res is not reliable when everything and its mother in endgame hits with 30-ish damage and 105+ accuracy, remember Seth's avoid is far from great with 37 base and an average of 55 avoid without boosters means he'll still take 40-ish accuracy ennemies, Lyon deals 50 to 55 damage, which means with a pure water and a talisman, Seth with S lances takes 50-13-7-2=28 damage, if his HP is lower than 57 he dies in 2 hits from Lyon and that's not counting stone and the minimum of 5 gorgons around Lyon who can add up damage, even if they don't move 2 of them can attack Seth wherever he is around the boss. With Audumla he only gains 5 res and still dies in 2 Lyon hits without 1 or 2 seraph robes. Seth isn't anything special, he's good but overrated as Seth Emblem is far from being optimal with the number of times he can die, and that's if he doesn't rescue Eirika. If he rescues her, his avoid drops to 26, which kills him. Lyon also has insane hit rate, Seth barely has 10% chance to dodge with his average speed. 17 luck isn't exactly safe either considering crit weapons and classes and it severaly gimps his avoid to not have 20-25 luck (which whould give him +3-8 avoid). Sorry for the long text, but I wanted to do this in only 1 paragraph because it's not on the topic itself.)))

What's your point? Because I don't think you have much of one, as Seth can just chuck javelins at those units. Anyway, Zanbatos are weak, and Halberds are inaccurate. Besides, this is clearly off topic.

On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Volug is the unit who sees the highest number of fights alongside Nolan in DB, if he can't get to SS strike, Nolan can't get to SS axes. Nolan needs to level up 12-14 x and be promoted to reach Volug's base speed in half form. Volug has 1 more damage than base Nolan with steel axe and doubles every non-1-E boss ennemy at base with this damage, 0 investment, the only ennemies he doesn't kill in 1 round are generals and the boss of 1-E, maybe one or two ubber knights but if his strike rank already upgraded to S which he can do before the end of p1 since he's not wasting turns but saving them by being played the same way as Seth. What 2 range ennemies are you talking about? Laguz? randoms that ally units will dispose of? more Laguz? Volug's p3 is free because most of what he fights IS 1 range-locked. Zihark is also 1-range semi-locked, since wind adge is the literal worst 1-2 range weapon in the game and Zihark has nearly 20 HP less than Volug with no bonus to his underwhelming def (even Nolan tanks better without Tarvos than Zihark). If he doesn't face 0% chance to be hit, then he can be killed in 2 hits anytime in p3. Hint: Micaiah has less leadership stars than random bosses for all the game since she never gains any, correct me if I'm wrong. Meaning ennemies gain free hit and avoid bonuses while Zihark doesn't. Bosses and some randoms also benefit from chapter affinity bonuses for more bullshit hit and avoid. Base Volug also has 3 more speed than base Zihark in full form and 16 base def with 22 base strength, implying 31 attack. If I can transform him just in time to intercept the 1st or 2nd Laguz wave in p3 ch6, then no one has as much bulk + offense than he does. I try to expose him to 2 ennemies in a turtle formation while I try to expose Beorcs to only 1 ennemy each otherwise they become cat food. Nolan's stats reach base Volug's full form by level 20/14-20. Volug can also gain stats on level up and BEXP in best used on units who aren't guaranteed a 3 stat level up with chapter exp. Laguz aren't guaranteed a 3 stat level up with chapter exp, thus they benefit far more from BEXP than Beorcs with decent growths. Most DB units don't even cap anything in a plausible number of level ups so they don't want worse level ups, thus Volug benefits far more from a BEXP level up. Yesterday I killed the CH5 boss with Volug. Believe me or not, in normal mode, he gained around 25 experience from that shitty low level mage. If Seth can level up by boss killing only, so can Volug.

The difference is that Seth isn't gaining experience like a mid tier 2 unit, and can retaliate against archers and mages, whereas Volug can do nothing if he's attacked by them. Also, Kryptonite is everywhere for laguz.

On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

You mention Beorcs superiority a lot, but what you forget is that your Laguz are your best world enders. They have a few turns of insane combat. If you don't want to use an ultimate weapon for 2-3 turns just because it has to load beforehand and it has a cooldown, then don't. I will, because a weapon that will be 3x less likely to die than Beorcs while having much better combat when loaded is exactly what armies have been looking for at all times. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed with weapons that took years to develop, but this ended the war in 3 days. 1st day bomb, 2.5 waiting for a peace treaty that didn't come, 3rd day re-bomb, 2 days later the Japanese surrendered. good Laguz are nuclear bombs, they are not in ultimate mode all the time like you don't throw a nuclear bomb in every battle otherwise we would all be dead or not even born, but when a nuclear bomb if thrown, the battle is won. Throw you Laguz at the boss in kill the boss maps and there's no unit who will kill it faster and safer than them. Mordy is slow, but 1 speedwings and 1 speed level up (again you can reset as many times as you want without penalty in the preparations and get 1 speed point on him, with speedwings it brings him to 12 spd which equals 24 in tiger form, 24 doubles everything that Titania doubles at level 20 since she has the same spd as her cap) bring him in absolute double territory for most of p3 and if his strength is too low he can also get an energy drop. I don't care about giving ressources to an unit who uses them to be good and ease me some tight fights. if said unit is tankier than Haar at the same time when it's in ultimate mode, then I take it with open arms. Most of the time my stat boosters end up rotting in the supply for 80% of the game, might as well use them.

The only laguz actually worth calling world enders are the royals, who are clearly in "purposefully overpowered" territory. Of course, that's why they're generally only usable in part 4, which is rout-heavy. The best way to clear rout maps is to have enemies suicide on a powerful unit; I'll grant, the laguz royals are certainly powerful enough as to fit the bill here, BUT.... They're still range-locked, which means that they won't have the most productive enemy phases; how powerful you are is meaningless when you end up in situations where you cannot counter, and they're pretty much Exhibit A as to this. Most non-royals pretty much require something tantamount to boss abuse to get anywhere, given that they level up much slower when transformed; this is a high-risk, low-reward proposition. And honestly, I would say it's not worth it, because aside from the exorbitant amount of effort needed (trying to make most non-royal laguz usable in RD feels more like trying to raise Larvesta in Pokemon BW), Kryptonite is everywhere to make life hard for laguz. 

On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Volug reverts only if he's out of Olivi grass or if you kept Wildheart on him and manually revert+transform+attack or use healing item on PP. Yes, if you used Laguz you'd know that you can revert, transform back and use an action on the same turn, the only thing they can't do is moving after reverting or transforming, that would require canto (birds can though). Which means that transformed Volug is a more reliable and better overall unit than anything you can play in DB. If you fear him untransforming, just keep wildheart on him and give him 2 speed level ups at least so he reaches 22 which should double a tigers and maybe low level cats, or 3 speed level ups and he doubles nearly all ennemies in 3-6 except high end cats. with as much as a dragonshield, his def reaches 16 in half form, 22 in full form. If he can die, so could Tauroneo. Tauroneo is far from dying in one turn with inferior stats to base Volug in full form, thus Volug is far from dying in 1 turn (Volug at base in full form has 11 HP over Tauroneo and only 3 points less in def, becoming 1 more by eating a dragoshield for general level defense). If you want a comparison, base Volug with a dragonshield and S trike is about equal to base Gatrie with +6 speed, which would solo all of part 3 avoiding mages or engaging them to not take counter damage. If that's bad for you, then Beorcs are trash can fodder since they can't do what Base Volug does before Nolan caps his t2 speed and before anyone else is around 20/20. Volug with 3 BEXP +HP +lck +spd level ups reaches 24 speed in hakf form, 32 in full form. With white pool that's enough to double Asehra and I think it's also enough to double Lehran/Sephiran, but not the auras. With SS strike and base strength he has 41 attack on top of 32 speed. with an energy drop he has 40 attack with S strike or 45 with SS strike. That's 4 less than capped strength Alondite t3 swordies, and with S strike and red pool he has 45 attack with an energy drop. Now tell me that Laguz are shit, but no Beorc under t3 can do what Volug can with just 3 speed level ups and 1 stat booster.

Needing to grass up to avoid reverting is a negative, no matter which way you slice it, because laguz already have worse enemy phases on account of being range-locked. Especially when laguz are seeing enough combat that most of what one use of olivi grass restores is wiped away, which, for most laguz, is not a lot (cats lose 5 gauge per turn and 4 per combat, meaning 2 enemies and a turn takes away almost all of what they gain from olivi grass; any more, and it's a net loss. Other laguz that aren't lions or dragons don't fare much better, losing 4 gauge per turn and 3 per combat). I also fail to see why laguz should be entitled to stat boosters when in practice, beorc make better use of them pretty much ten times out of ten. What's more, once again, I can savescum level ups to make pretty much anyone good.

On 10/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Volug is lv 15 at base. He levels up in like 1300-1800 BEXP for the next 3 levels. You have far enough BEXP to give him 4500 BEXP and that's with 0 CEXP. Since he still gains CEXP for strike rank and since he gains 25-ish exp from the first boss kill, not counting any of the following bosses who should be higher level than him, he gets enough exp to level up 4 times easily without battling a single time in human form, just from some boss kills and BEXP. You can easily have 3000 BEXP in one chapter post-Daein trio's recruitment. If you don't use Meg, Fiona, Aran and Edward and have enough with Nolan, Sothe, Jill and Volug, then your BEXP can go mostly to Volug since others won't need it to level up and some 500-700 BEXP will be enough to put them to 91 exp most of the time. None of them benefit as much from BEXP as Volug, all of them gain more CEXP than him, and boss kills benefit Volug more than them if he isn't in level up range since he gains the most exp from it compared with mook kills (10-25 exp per kill on Beorcs, 1-2 on Volug most of the time, the boss gives him 10-25x more exp than the mooks, the others barely gain 3-5x more from bosskills than from mooks). If Sothe can level up, Volug can, the only advantage Sothe has is 10 exp per steal, but Sothe has 2 less movement than Volug and has several chapters running towards chests where he can't fight half the time and in 1-E he can die in 3 hits on top of having 5 chests to loot/thieves to loot them from. Better, Volug and Sothe mostly don't compete for experience since thief utility gives Sothe half the exp he gains in p1 and they part to each side of the map most of the time.

Squandering what little BEXP you have at that point is not something I'd advise. I would also question giving Volug boss kills when the Daeins are already strapped for experience as is, and mismanaging exp is a very easy way to end up hitting a brick wall later.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Dude. Are you even talking about the same game I am? Because Haar is most definitely NOT 2HKOed by the boss in 3-2. Also, said boss is easily put in his place by a sword user - it doesn't matter how hard you can hit if you miss, after all. Also, the number of times bosses have crit chances that are actually worth worrying about is one I can count on one hand (2-3, 3-1, 3-4. All of whom are either melee locked or immobile). And if I did see a high crit boss, the absolute worst units to engage them with would be laguz, which are melee-locked.

What's your point? Because I don't think you have much of one, as Seth can just chuck javelins at those units. Anyway, Zanbatos are weak, and Halberds are inaccurate. Besides, this is clearly off topic.

The difference is that Seth isn't gaining experience like a mid tier 2 unit, and can retaliate against archers and mages, whereas Volug can do nothing if he's attacked by them. Also, Kryptonite is everywhere for laguz.

The only laguz actually worth calling world enders are the royals, who are clearly in "purposefully overpowered" territory. Of course, that's why they're generally only usable in part 4, which is rout-heavy. The best way to clear rout maps is to have enemies suicide on a powerful unit; I'll grant, the laguz royals are certainly powerful enough as to fit the bill here, BUT.... They're still range-locked, which means that they won't have the most productive enemy phases; how powerful you are is meaningless when you end up in situations where you cannot counter, and they're pretty much Exhibit A as to this. Most non-royals pretty much require something tantamount to boss abuse to get anywhere, given that they level up much slower when transformed; this is a high-risk, low-reward proposition. And honestly, I would say it's not worth it, because aside from the exorbitant amount of effort needed (trying to make most non-royal laguz usable in RD feels more like trying to raise Larvesta in Pokemon BW), Kryptonite is everywhere to make life hard for laguz. 

Needing to grass up to avoid reverting is a negative, no matter which way you slice it, because laguz already have worse enemy phases on account of being range-locked. Especially when laguz are seeing enough combat that most of what one use of olivi grass restores is wiped away, which, for most laguz, is not a lot (cats lose 5 gauge per turn and 4 per combat, meaning 2 enemies and a turn takes away almost all of what they gain from olivi grass; any more, and it's a net loss. Other laguz that aren't lions or dragons don't fare much better, losing 4 gauge per turn and 3 per combat). I also fail to see why laguz should be entitled to stat boosters when in practice, beorc make better use of them pretty much ten times out of ten. What's more, once again, I can savescum level ups to make pretty much anyone good.

Squandering what little BEXP you have at that point is not something I'd advise. I would also question giving Volug boss kills when the Daeins are already strapped for experience as is, and mismanaging exp is a very easy way to end up hitting a brick wall later.

Well, about DB exp, you have a choice of giving the boss kills from 1-5 onward to Sothe, Volug or Tauroneo. Sothe is trash in p3 no matter what you do, Tauroneo doesn't gain much from the 1 or 2 boss kills he can get in p1 since he doesn't even level up once and Volug has highchance of getting speed from most level ups, if he gets 2 or 3 speed level ups he's nuts, and everything else on top of hp/spd/luck is insanely beneficial. +1 strength for example can be the difference between taking a counter from a mage or OHKOing it as soon as 1-E (or sooner if Volug got strength magically with BEXP, still 25% not 0, if my 45% speed Leonardo could gain 6 speed level ups in 6 levels then Volug sure can get 1 25% str level up with some luck).

You know who else is great in DB? Nolan, who hates early BEXP unless it just gets him from somewhere to 92% exp bar because he suffers enough from high level with low level base stats not to cut him down on 2 potential stat gains per level. Nolan has less movement than Volug, is your meatshield that has to safeguard your cat food team and his only support realistically happening without taking 50 turns per map is Leonardo or Edward, Leonardo helping far more than Eddie because Nolan still lacks in offense. Jill comes near the end of p1 with base stats that I would've liked on Meg 2 chapters earlier but instead she's usable from 1-6 only for 4 maps, in one of which she can barely fight anything (1-6-2 either cheesed with Tauroneo on turn 2 or massively carried by Volug who is the only candidate for taking care of the top side of the map without dying in 2 attacks, and a pure water is highly recommended in his inventory). If Volug has gotten a dragonshield he can attack once or twice more on PP because he's not fearing death, if not then you'll have to keep him healing whenever needed. Jill on the other hand is really dying in 2 hits from whatever attacks her, has shit tier accuracy for half the maps she's in during the whole game (yay even Nolan beats her in that department while his skill is already inferior to Aran's), she's weighed down by every non iron axe (hammer gives her like -7 speed, ending up with 8 speed from base 15 and she can't hit to save her life, sometimes she doesn't even OHKO with hammer due to her complete trash strength even if you give her the energy drop). Jill has about the same growth rates as Meg, you know, the joke unit? Somehow people think Jill is incredible although she literally needs every ressource in the DB + all the CEXP and BEXP to even do anything more than ORKOing pegasi in 1-6 with a hand axe, and that's in normal mode, I don't even imagine how bad she can be in hard where early game ennemies have Awakening lunatic level bullshit stats from what I've seen the only time I've dared try it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/932999-fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/69426809

This epic tale is so true it's funny, basically how everyone in the DB chapters try to do anything and while they try to do something they realize Volug has already beaten the chapter. By the way, Volug can use celerity, pass or paragon without needing a promo item or any level up. If he gains 20-28 exp from a boss normally, double it with Paragon and add double exp from everything else, and now Volug effectively has 3 chapters where he gains some exp (well say 2 since 1-8 is literally Tormod and Vika doing everything worth mentionning until Sothe and Zihark arrive from their stupid starting point through 100 bushes around the damn swamp and reck the boss peninsula) or he simply has to take celerity and go even further from 1-8 and pass for 1-E that helps him slaughter the ledge ennemies and open a path for whoever wants to get there, while Nailah opens the stairs, and they both take care of the thieves so you have all your time to make it to the chests with Sothe. Any ressource spent in Volug helps ease the DB chapters and since he has good base parametters and good options to get even better.

Put Resolve on him to watch insanity since Volug under half HP still has as much HP as base Jill full HP, if you look at things from further you can realize that what you thought was really misinformed and making you look less smart than I think you are, with resolve active, Volug has 24 str, 27 skl and 29 spd at base, which should be enough to solo 1-E, even better, if you were to give him a seraph robe, he'd have 28 HP when entering madness mode, which is 4 more than Jill's base HP when she's full, or 3 less than she'd have with a seraph robe, still completely dominating her in all offensive stats until she's in t3 since she doesn't have high enough skl/spd caps to ever reach 27/29 in t2, and 24 str is what she'd have very late in t2 mostly after BEXP abusing once she has reached her spd/res caps. Now for p3, with resolve and 2 hp/speed/luck level ups, he has 51 HP, 16 str, 18 skl, 22 spd, 15 lck, with the skill activated he has 24 str, 27 skl and 33 spd. Zihark gets completely ROFLstomped even if all his offensive stats are capped (24 str is his cap, 30 skill is still a bit higher than 27 but nothing worth noting when his weapons have 10-20 less accuracy than a fang, he caps speed at 30, his luck growth isn't very high), and if Volug gets B double earth support on top he has 66+15+30=101 avoid, 111 on a thicket, that in half form. In full form, it's 45 speed> 90+15+30=135 avoid, 145 on a thicket. Now tell me anyone in DB has anything worth noting over Volug, who doubles every non Naesala royal with 2 speed level ups and resolve active, and if he is given an energy drop his strength is 26>39, suddenly he stomps every Beorc's str in t3 except capped Boyd since Nolan hardly caps strength in a playthrough where you don't spend 80 turns per map + save scumming level ups unless he's heavily RNG strength blessed.

With these stats, tell me again that Volug doesn't have dibs on the DB ressources to push his offensive stats, that he never reaches SS strike and that he isn't lategame material when he still has 3 speed points to gain to reach his cap of 18/36 which means 27 speed in human form with resolve, 27>40 in wildheart and 36>54 in full form, with 26>39 str with 2 strength points from base or 19>28 in wildheart, which is equal to Ulki's full form strength. If you gave Ulki and Volug Resolve, they would not counter at 2 range but they would obliterate late game even with wildheart and they would have better offensive parametters than non resolve royals, Volug equaling Giffca in effectiveness and Ulki beating them both with vigilance ensuring he is untouchable (36 base speed>54 with resolve, 40 cap>60, with how high his luck is, that's 164-165 avoid at capped speed with base luck and no support). Give them red pool when you can and you'll see how nuts that is. This requires setup? the whole game requires setup, and Laguz have exactly what they need to set it up since you can put them just in resolve range on 1st EP and reck the map from there. Meanwhile Jill is still at 31 hp, 13 str, 12 skl, 15 spd, 15 def, 3 res, even at 20/1 (after 6 painfull level ups and all your non speedwings stat boosters) she has 36 hp, 17 str, 15 skl, 19-20 spd, 17 lck, 19 def and 7 res, she's still 10 hp lower than base Haar, 7 str lower, 7 or so skl lower, about equal in spd, maybe superior in luck, 5 def lower and has about equal res with him. If she can use resolve, then she has =<18 HP left, 25 str, 22 skl, 27-30 spd. She still inferior to base Haar in every defensive parametter and has to fall to 18 hp to just match his base attack, speed means little when he ORKOs everything with a brave axe or a killer axe crit, glad Boyd gives him exactly that, a killer axe, or you could get him the brave axe given by Kieran in p2. Haar with resolve is a thing too, but he has less HP than Volug, 3x less HP growth and caps HP at 50-60 while Volug caps at 70, meaning Haar's left with <25 HP for all t2 and =<30 by endgame.

Sorry for the wall of text, I just developped what I was just realizing on how insane Volug is and thus how completely nuts Ulki is. They might not have 2 range, but except Haar/Titania, no one can do what they can better than them and their raw HP value ensures they're safe when they do it. Not even speaking of mastery skills since they're overkill by this point, with 24 base skill in full form, 36 with resolve, Volug would already activate it more than once in a while, and Ulki with 34>51 would activate it very often. Still unusable against lategame bosses so I don't mention them.

Edited by mangasdeouf

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