2D Tier List

[RaIsMyPet]

Finally finished all routes in maddening recently. Maybe this is too late, but I always have this idea of plotting the tierlist as Max-Performance vs Required Investment (still assuming reasonable investment though, e.g. shouldn't impair building other units, no excessive babysitting, no stat-booster dumping unless for fixing very unfortunate RNG). This picture I did a while ago and doesn't include Cyril, who I recently enjoyed in AM maddening (NG). I don't have a lot of time for comments, and half of the units might be a bit off, but I will supplement with my reasonings if this kind of tierlist interests anyone.

I didn't include most church members because I basically never used them in maddening.

Edit: let me add the build assumed for some of the units (that I feel confident about as I use them a lot):

Edelgard: Axe Wyvern, double Blows, Raging Storm, early game armor cert (super durable)

Dimitri: BVBW, Hit+20, Killer lance, Paladin, early Duscur Heavy Soldiers

M!Byleth: War Master, Killer knuckles, high-crit battalion (200~400 damage per combat on PP almost guaranteed)

Felix: same as M!Byleth, OP Fraldarius crest in exchange for authority bane

Petra: Sword Wyvern, Sword Avo, AS+, BW, WoDao, similar to Dimitri, slightly less kill power in exchange for better mobility and versatility

Ferdinand: Lance Wyvern, SS, Death Blow, AS/AS+, Spear of Assal and/or Ochain shield with Crest of Cichol and personal, best if talking about dual-phasing

Lysithea: 6-range Valkyrie or 5-range Gremory easily achievable, warper (I use it for strategy, but never skipping maps)

Constance: similar to Lysithea, no warp or faith boon in exchange for Rescue, Bolting, and much better early game

Dorothea/Marianne: super convenient Trickster when you have at least one dodge tank  these two need to be updated on the graph

I can add more later

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by RaIsMyPet

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I'm curious  - how do you assess "investment" and "performance"? Like Annette - you have her as low-investment, but I consider her somewhat high investment. I want to build her Authority ASAP for Rally Speed at C+. And if I want her in a more mobile class (ike Cavalier or Wyvern Rider), I need to invest in a movement type. And the same for Ignatz, if I want him rally-botting.

On the flip side, is Ingrid that high-investment? She's strong in Lances and Flight, so put her on a Pegasus and she's good to go. Granted, Axes (for Death Blow and Wyvern) and Authority (just in general) can take some work, but it's not as though she's weak in either one.

[RaIsMyPet]

48 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm curious  - how do you assess "investment" and "performance"? Like Annette - you have her as low-investment, but I consider her somewhat high investment. I want to build her Authority ASAP for Rally Speed at C+. And if I want her in a more mobile class (ike Cavalier or Wyvern Rider), I need to invest in a movement type. And the same for Ignatz, if I want him rally-botting.

On the flip side, is Ingrid that high-investment? She's strong in Lances and Flight, so put her on a Pegasus and she's good to go. Granted, Axes (for Death Blow and Wyvern) and Authority (just in general) can take some work, but it's not as though she's weak in either one.

By "performance" I mean the best build I'm used to for the unit, without too outlandish input like raising a bane to A; and investment means the investment for the said build.

I appreciate any input since I don't post this as a definite opinion but to let people debate as too often people rank units without taking into account either investment or level (some unit types are bound to be higher leveled than some others, depending on playstyle)

For Annette, I need to apologize since I only finished AM maddening recently and I enjoyed dark flyer Annette. So she is definitely a bit off here (I don't have time to update this). I would move her a lot more to the right and slightly upwards. In this chart she is assessed based on my past use as Gremory: not so much investment, but not too great either. This definitely changed now. However, Annette is still low investment as any skill to C/C+ level with boon or neutral shouldn't be considered high investment.

For Ingrid, I mainly have grudge on her early game (medium base speed with no MiniBow is a big downgrade from Petra/Leonie) AND this snowball effect: when you don't do damage, your level will suffer, in turn you suffer more unless you are a healer. Even for dodge tanking it doesn't happen until around Ch10 (for AS+, and vanilla AS is only semi-reliable and no better than Death/Darting blow at the time), and after that she still consistently suffers from low killing power, thus losing the key aspect in dodge tanks which is they tend to have many combats to level up quickly. But I also agree in terms of skill boons she's fine. Honestly I would put Ingrid's performance lower if not for that she has sword boon for better using Sword Avo + WoDao.

For Ignatz and rallying in general, any unit above and to the right of Leonie (around 8 of them in total, those are what I regard as really good units) basically never need rallying, and Lysithea and Constance (also both really good) very occasionally needs rally magic early game but not a lot. Thus I always find myself with a very strong self-sufficient team, so I wouldn't say rally bot (say with horses) Ignatz is better than Sniper with strong battalion Ignatz.

Edited October 23, 2020 by RaIsMyPet

[SumG]

I have some minor quibbles about a couple units, but most of your rankings seem pretty reasonable for assuming we're talking about maddening.

The most notable disparity for me is Petra.  I'm a bit shocked you view her as a high investment unit.  I agree that she has an amazing top end, but she requires basically no effort to get there.  The build you're using explains why you likely feel the way you do, and is a build that I don't get using.  If you're putting Sword Avoid on her (presumably for dodgetank purposes), that requires getting Dancer, which is more of an investment.  But I think what you're giving up is more than what you're getting.  By using swords instead of axes in Wyvern Rider/Lord, you're giving up ~8 Mt per attack (5 from not using the class' innate axefaire, then ~3 for the fact that the average axe has more Mt than the average sword of any given weapon tier).  Yes, you're getting +20 avoid (from Sword Avoid +20) and a bit more accuracy (swords do tend to be more accurate by about 20 points), but I would much rather have the extra attack power, especially given Petra's speed.  It's roughly 16 damage per combat, and she doesn't typically need the extra avoidance or accuracy!  Throw in the fact that I'm not even sure Sword Avoid +20 would make the cut for her endgame abilities (Death Blow, Weapon Prowess 5, Alert Stance+, Weaponfaire, and one of Darting Blow/Steal/Weapon Crit+10), and I think you're making her more complicated than she needs to be.

On a smaller note, I think both Edelgard and Dimitri need to go down in effectiveness (they just aren't fast enough).  I don't think you missed much by not using the Church units, but I do think Catherine is very good on Maddening, even if you only leave her in a sword based unit.  Not as good as Felix, but still very good and requires almost no effort to make good.  I would also say f!Byleth is noticeably stronger than m!Byleth (f!Byleth gets Darting Blow, which is essential for Byleth on Maddening, and access to Falcon Knight, a strong endgame class), though I don't mind saying it's more of effort investment.

[RaIsMyPet]

43 minutes ago, SumG said:

I have some minor quibbles about a couple units, but most of your rankings seem pretty reasonable for assuming we're talking about maddening.

The most notable disparity for me is Petra.  I'm a bit shocked you view her as a high investment unit.  I agree that she has an amazing top end, but she requires basically no effort to get there.  The build you're using explains why you likely feel the way you do, and is a build that I don't get using.  If you're putting Sword Avoid on her (presumably for dodgetank purposes), that requires getting Dancer, which is more of an investment.  But I think what you're giving up is more than what you're getting.  By using swords instead of axes in Wyvern Rider/Lord, you're giving up ~8 Mt per attack (5 from not using the class' innate axefaire, then ~3 for the fact that the average axe has more Mt than the average sword of any given weapon tier).  Yes, you're getting +20 avoid (from Sword Avoid +20) and a bit more accuracy (swords do tend to be more accurate by about 20 points), but I would much rather have the extra attack power, especially given Petra's speed.  It's roughly 16 damage per combat, and she doesn't typically need the extra avoidance or accuracy!  Throw in the fact that I'm not even sure Sword Avoid +20 would make the cut for her endgame abilities (Death Blow, Weapon Prowess 5, Alert Stance+, Weaponfaire, and one of Darting Blow/Steal/Weapon Crit+10), and I think you're making her more complicated than she needs to be.

On a smaller note, I think both Edelgard and Dimitri need to go down in effectiveness (they just aren't fast enough).  I don't think you missed much by not using the Church units, but I do think Catherine is very good on Maddening, even if you only leave her in a sword based unit.  Not as good as Felix, but still very good and requires almost no effort to make good.  I would also say f!Byleth is noticeably stronger than m!Byleth (f!Byleth gets Darting Blow, which is essential for Byleth on Maddening, and access to Falcon Knight, a strong endgame class), though I don't mind saying it's more of effort investment.

Well, really thanks for the discussion. I agree what you said assuming a player phase Petra, and I do use her in a way most people don't (the closest I've seen is using her as dodgetank with SwordAvo, but not BW, or BW+lance breaker, but not sword avo). By combining these two you achieve an effect of basically 1+1=100. I could confidently claim this build is the most broken build on EP or in general, period. Here are some amazing feat that this build can do just for the tip of iceberg:

1. CF Derdriu map, single handedly stopped all bow knight and wyverns including Nader, being gambited by Nader once and they still can't hit her, and still has decent damage after rattled thanks to 100% crit

2. CF Edelgard Paralogue, single handedly killed most bowknights and kills 2~3 wyvern reinforcements each turn so my main army has almost no pressure pushing forward

3. BL endgame, touring the palace from turn 1, criting her way through Myson, meteor mages, detour to kill ballistas, and reaching throne room in turn 5 shutting down Hegemon Edelgard early, and further killed legions of war masters on her way back, and so on

4. I can go on and on, basically this one unit trivialized entire post-timeskip game with no excessive effort beside diligent tutoring and giving her dancer.

5. I really hope anyone who primarily relies on doubling and/or doubling CA's to give this a try: trust me it's not very complicated, and it's better than Dimitri most of the time (keywords: ballistas and/or monsters)

6. The only thing this build is not good at is killing those 9-tile monster bosses

Most people's computations are just "add so and so Mt or Spd", but they don't realize if you are criting 100% of the time then you need not a lot of strength to kill, and if you are as fast as Petra you need only deal 13 damage per hit assuming doubling at endgame (13*6=78). Moreover, this build makes Petra at relatively high level, so if you are willing to give here around 4 carrots, you could reasonably expect her to double even Falcons or War Masters. Another side effect is that my healer's level is kept so low because I'm basically turning maddening into hard, however, none of my other standard combatants like brave-CA users feel any real negative impact on EXP, as maddening cut your exp a lot.

Another key point is Petra is the only unit (with reasonable effort) able to achieve: super high avo, 100 EP crit, at least B authority, all BEFORE timeskip. AND: no defiant skill and no mercenary nor warrior is needed, but please give her Hit+20 and Cichol Wyvern (towards the end) so she could reliably hit lancers (80+% hit).

Final tip: I use her as standard doubling prior to timeskip, as that's better pre-timeskip. This transition in build and a dancer slot is why I rank her as high effort, but still very reasonable giving all her boons.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by RaIsMyPet

[SnowFire]

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think this tiering is something that really makes sense to do at a character level.  Most characters have both high-investment and low-investment builds.  As long as you don't try to do high-investment builds on everyone at once, you're fine.  My Annette was hitting the Sauna every month in my current Lions playthrough because she wanted to qualify for all of Dark Flier, Warlock, Wyvern Rider, and Fortress Knight at the Advanced Tier for all those stat minimum boosts to fix her various bad stats.  She'll end up a bit better, but at the cost of somebody else not getting that special treatment.  (Flip side, pre-DLC vanilla Warlock Annette kinda sucks, even if she's "cheap" to build.)  

I'll agree with others that Petra has perfectly serviceable builds that require no special investment.  If you're doing Sword Petra, just go Assassin.  It's easy to "turn off" Stealth if you don't want it by sending her in alone to bait some enemies from a forest tile, and you just auto-train swords & bows which she's good at.  Stop by axes early for Death Blow, you're done, nothing fancy, but still very effective (and sure, throw in Dancer if you really want to go all-in on the dodge-tanking).  You can do fancier builds if you prefer, but Petra doesn't require it.

For another example, if you want to make Grappler Dedue, he does that essentially for free with little investment.  If you're willing to work against his Flying Bane, he makes a perfectly solid Wyvern too (like most everyone else) at a higher "investment".  Up to you whether it's worth doing.

Edited October 23, 2020 by SnowFire

[RaIsMyPet]

3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think this tiering is something that really makes sense to do at a character level.  Most characters have both high-investment and low-investment builds.  As long as you don't try to do high-investment builds on everyone at once, you're fine.  My Annette was hitting the Sauna every month in my current Lions playthrough because she wanted to qualify for all of Dark Flier, Warlock, Wyvern Rider, and Fortress Knight at the Advanced Tier for all those stat minimum boosts to fix her various bad stats.  She'll end up a bit better, but at the cost of somebody else not getting that special treatment.  (Flip side, pre-DLC vanilla Warlock Annette kinda sucks, even if she's "cheap" to build.)  

I'll agree with others that Petra has perfectly serviceable builds that require no special investment.  If you're doing Sword Petra, just go Assassin.  It's easy to "turn off" Stealth if you don't want it by sending her in alone to bait some enemies from a forest tile, and you just auto-train swords & bows which she's good at.  Stop by axes early for Death Blow, you're done, nothing fancy, but still very effective (and sure, throw in Dancer if you really want to go all-in on the dodge-tanking).  You can do fancier builds if you prefer, but Petra doesn't require it.

For another example, if you want to make Grappler Dedue, he does that essentially for free with little investment.  If you're willing to work against his Flying Bane, he makes a perfectly solid Wyvern too (like most everyone else) at a higher "investment".  Up to you whether it's worth doing.

I see the confusion now.

First, this is just a sample idea, and you can define your two axis of your own. It certainly makes more sense than 1D tierlist using S/A/B/C/D, as it contextualize the tierlist. For example, a new comer to challenge maddening can quickly see Lysithea is a good bet even for lack of player experience, while some upper-right units need to be chosen according to player's knowledge. But I agree different playstyle should have different charts.

Second, no, I don't mean my chart is "find a good enough build and chart the investment", but rather "from the unit's skill pool within reasonable effort, get the best build as possible, and then chart the investment into it". In this sense, no investment level in this chart is truly "high", just relatively high if you want the peak performance. And by max-performance, I don't mean endgame, but entire post-timeskip, with super early game as adjustment.

If looking for a "good enough build for Petra", she probably hangs between Leonie and Ferdinand, rather than that high, but I don't think my build is that extra fancy since it's only adding a little more tutoring planning. I don't use her just to pull or choke points, but to kill half the map and some key target deep in enemy territory.

As for Annette, I agree Warlock Annette sucks. I rated her that high because I relied on her twice to rally so my speedster can pull death knight on Ch4. Other than that, I never found Warlock build for Annette worth a team slot. But for Dark Flier, maybe it's RNG, but with her wind-based spells and extra speed from DF, sometimes she could even double paladins post-timeskip for a short time. That raised my opinion of her a bit, though I wouldn't call her very good. However, I don't think you need to go wyvern or Fortress to fix her any stat. Her stats are fine, just not amazing in anyway.

Edited October 23, 2020 by RaIsMyPet

[SumG]

5 hours ago, RaIsMyPet said:

Well, really thanks for the discussion. I agree what you said assuming a player phase Petra, and I do use her in a way most people don't (the closest I've seen is using her as dodgetank with SwordAvo, but not BW, or BW+lance breaker, but not sword avo). By combining these two you achieve an effect of basically 1+1=100. I could confidently claim this build is the most broken build on EP or in general, period. Here are some amazing feat that this build can do just for the tip of iceberg:

 

It's fine that you like this build that happens to be more elaborate, but there doesn't seem to be much in it that is particular to Petra.  So long as the unit doesn't have a bane in in flying, axes, or swords, it seems like they could do this.  Even if you're relying on a high speed unit, there doesn't seem (at least to me) any reason you couldn't do this exact same build with Felix, Ingrid, Leonie, or Catherine.  It's not the build that is making Petra good, it's just that Petra is good.

[SnowFire]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you probably need a point for every character + build combo, rather than a point per character.  Mortal Savant Dedue is high investment and sucks.  Grappler Dedue is low investment and good.  Wyvern Dedue is high investment and probably a bit better than Grappler.  Which one you want will vary by team (maybe Dark Knight Sylvain is higher investment and worse than Paladin Sylvain, but you're running very few mages, so he's the right call for the team comp).

For Annette, just to go into it a bit - I feel a bit nervous hyping up the "qualify for a bunch of classes for base stats then don't use the class" because I really don't think IntSys intended you to play this way, it was supposed to be a way to ensure that if you wanted Wyvern Rider Annette she'd have some base Str so she didn't completely suck at it, not that you'd just take the Str boost and move on with your life back in Dark Flier.  That said.  Noble->Monk->Mage Annette has at Lvl 21 (we won't assume a perfect L20 promote, or assume we got minorly stat-screwed) 29 HP / 11.5 Str / 23 Mag / 18.5 Dex / 14 Spd / 13 Lck / 8.5 Def / 13 Res / 14 Cha.  Dark Flier gives her nothing (its bases are utter garbage).  Warlock gives +1 HP / +3.5 Def / +2 Res.  Wyvern Rider (which, if you're going Dark Flier anyway, is dang easy to qualify for) gives +6.5 Str and has the same HP / Def bases as Warlock.  And finally, Fortress Knight is an amazing +6 HP (doesn't stack, so +5HP if you already qualified for another base class) and +8.5 Def (+5 Def if we already bake in the 12 Def base from the other classes).  All told, this is +6 HP / +6.5 Str / +8.5 Def / +2 Res if you decide to abuse multiple class qualifications for base stats on Annette.  It's even better than that; Weight -3 is eternally good for Annette, so if you trudged though her Armor training with the help of a Sauna, she will still appreciate this (Sagittae weighs 6, Excalibur weighs 8, 17 Str + Weight -3 = can use 6 weight tomes with no penalty, and when she hits 20 Str can chip another speed off Excalibur).  It's definitely very high investment and a little cheesy, but it is definitely rewarded if you do this.

Edited October 24, 2020 by SnowFire

[Dark Holy Elf]

I like the idea, although I do have a number of disagreements with your placements (but that's to be expected, I imagine; 3H is well-balanced enough that we're seeing reasonably different opinions on lots of characters). Although one major complication is that, as mentioned, some characters could easily be put in multiple places. Take Seteth for an easy example. You can just leave him in Wyvern as a filler unit and he'll be a mid-low max potential, but zero-effort character, kinda like a worse Jeritza. Or you can dip back for Death Blow and Reposition and get a mid-high potential, but very high effort character, almost at the opposite side of the board.

For quibbles, I won't focus on the vertical too much, but on the horizontal axis, a couple names jump out to me: Claude and Bernadetta. Claude is one of the lowest-effort characters in the game: he starts with good bases, has boons in almost every relevant skill you could want for him, and most significantly, gets handed an outstanding unique class for free (and a battalion which is a great fit for him). That's very low effort; he's close to the top-left corner IMO. Flipside, Bernadetta requires carefully monitoring her HP (and keeping her out of trouble) for Persecution Complex and Vengeance... and also fighting against an axe bane. While I think her vertical placement is reasonable, her horizontal placement belongs at the far right IMO.

For a couple strong agreements, I'll point at Jeritza and Shamir. Two of the easiest characters to use in the game (both arguably join in their best class), and I roughly agree with their vertical placements as well.

[RaIsMyPet]

12 hours ago, SumG said:

It's fine that you like this build that happens to be more elaborate, but there doesn't seem to be much in it that is particular to Petra.  So long as the unit doesn't have a bane in in flying, axes, or swords, it seems like they could do this.  Even if you're relying on a high speed unit, there doesn't seem (at least to me) any reason you couldn't do this exact same build with Felix, Ingrid, Leonie, or Catherine.  It's not the build that is making Petra good, it's just that Petra is good.

No, none of these units have BW, that's the point. No BW means much lower crit to be reliable. No 100% crit means no reliable kill on EP, meaning you gets surrounded and can only magnet 4 enemies at once. And what if you are surrounded and the next enemy nearby has a 3-range gambit? You cannot run away! Dodgetank that reliably kills is much more than vanilla dodge tanks. None of them have early AS+ access except Ingrid, and from my experience not coupled with AS+ you can't achieve 0 Hit from enemies (more like ~20+ Hit). The build for Petra can be very easily achieved prior to time-skip, so it's up all the time when it matters, and you can clean half the maps reliably in 3 turns. Crit uses 1RN so even 50% crit is far from reliable to be a permanent damage modifier. The only other unit I can think of to achieve this is Claude (Hilda is too much work), but he's not universally available, flies much later, doesn't double as easily, and has huge opportunity cost (like who can use Failnaught then? none of the typical bow users have a crest), that's why I usually don't use this build on Claude. But this build is a True Invincible build: self-sufficient, doesn't rely on retribution (at least not to survive), no cooking, no HP management, online from turn 1 every battle, just fly off anywhere the said unit is needed, and click wait, and map is cleaned. A final thing I want to point out is this build only uses common tools, not rare personally available abilities, but if you want a full combination suddenly the pool of units is very very small.

12 hours ago, SnowFire said:

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you probably need a point for every character + build combo, rather than a point per character.  Mortal Savant Dedue is high investment and sucks.  Grappler Dedue is low investment and good.  Wyvern Dedue is high investment and probably a bit better than Grappler.  Which one you want will vary by team (maybe Dark Knight Sylvain is higher investment and worse than Paladin Sylvain, but you're running very few mages, so he's the right call for the team comp).

For Annette, just to go into it a bit - I feel a bit nervous hyping up the "qualify for a bunch of classes for base stats then don't use the class" because I really don't think IntSys intended you to play this way, it was supposed to be a way to ensure that if you wanted Wyvern Rider Annette she'd have some base Str so she didn't completely suck at it, not that you'd just take the Str boost and move on with your life back in Dark Flier.  That said.  Noble->Monk->Mage Annette has at Lvl 21 (we won't assume a perfect L20 promote, or assume we got minorly stat-screwed) 29 HP / 11.5 Str / 23 Mag / 18.5 Dex / 14 Spd / 13 Lck / 8.5 Def / 13 Res / 14 Cha.  Dark Flier gives her nothing (its bases are utter garbage).  Warlock gives +1 HP / +3.5 Def / +2 Res.  Wyvern Rider (which, if you're going Dark Flier anyway, is dang easy to qualify for) gives +6.5 Str and has the same HP / Def bases as Warlock.  And finally, Fortress Knight is an amazing +6 HP (doesn't stack, so +5HP if you already qualified for another base class) and +8.5 Def (+5 Def if we already bake in the 12 Def base from the other classes).  All told, this is +6 HP / +6.5 Str / +8.5 Def / +2 Res if you decide to abuse multiple class qualifications for base stats on Annette.  It's even better than that; Weight -3 is eternally good for Annette, so if you trudged though her Armor training with the help of a Sauna, she will still appreciate this (Sagittae weighs 6, Excalibur weighs 8, 17 Str + Weight -3 = can use 6 weight tomes with no penalty, and when she hits 20 Str can chip another speed off Excalibur).  It's definitely very high investment and a little cheesy, but it is definitely rewarded if you do this.

For your first point, I agree and I actually said at the beginning I don't have time long enough to explain all my assumptions, so this is more of a sample idea to do tier list. I did explain some of the units in a very rushed way, and I have more thoughts on those units too but it requires me to sit down and type for hours. The units I briefly explained are my most successful ones so I feel most confident to provide as samples.

For Annette, now I think of it I agree with you more: I considered at some point to give her darting blow, and her getting wyvern is very little effort assuming going DF and getting her relic, and I did it in my AM. Probably it explains why she doubles more than my severely speed-screwed Felix. Thank you for clarifying this up. Getting Fortress is admittedly a bit much but might be interesting to try in a future NG+ run.

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I like the idea, although I do have a number of disagreements with your placements (but that's to be expected, I imagine; 3H is well-balanced enough that we're seeing reasonably different opinions on lots of characters). Although one major complication is that, as mentioned, some characters could easily be put in multiple places. Take Seteth for an easy example. You can just leave him in Wyvern as a filler unit and he'll be a mid-low max potential, but zero-effort character, kinda like a worse Jeritza. Or you can dip back for Death Blow and Reposition and get a mid-high potential, but very high effort character, almost at the opposite side of the board.

For quibbles, I won't focus on the vertical too much, but on the horizontal axis, a couple names jump out to me: Claude and Bernadetta. Claude is one of the lowest-effort characters in the game: he starts with good bases, has boons in almost every relevant skill you could want for him, and most significantly, gets handed an outstanding unique class for free (and a battalion which is a great fit for him). That's very low effort; he's close to the top-left corner IMO. Flipside, Bernadetta requires carefully monitoring her HP (and keeping her out of trouble) for Persecution Complex and Vengeance... and also fighting against an axe bane. While I think her vertical placement is reasonable, her horizontal placement belongs at the far right IMO.

For a couple strong agreements, I'll point at Jeritza and Shamir. Two of the easiest characters to use in the game (both arguably join in their best class), and I roughly agree with their vertical placements as well.

I mean first see one of my replies (to SnowFire) where I explained what both axis are in my chart, but of course anyone perhaps should come up with their own idea of what the two axis are in their opinion. For example, I can also use one axis for PP vs EP oriented (or anything a tier list typically relies on, but fails to show), and the other for how good the unit is. The aim of this type of tier list is to contextualize tier list, rather than those S/A/B/C/D ones when Lysithea and Dimitri may be on S tier for very different reasons.

Edited October 24, 2020 by RaIsMyPet