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Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 20: Raphael


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@Benice still hasn't updated, so let's do it again.

Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse.

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Dimtri: 9.14

Edelgard: 9.00

Claude: 8.977

Felix: 8.625

Petra: 8.34

Ferdinand: 7.78

Sylvain: 7.66

Ingrid: 7.34

Hilda: 7.31

Bernadetta: 7.125

Linhardt: 7.11

Mercedes: 6.756

Dorothea: 6.375

Dedue: 5.8571

Annette: 5.5375

Hubert: 5.525

Caspar: 4.32

Lorenz: 3.8077

Ashe: 3.69 (nice)

 

Underscore: Black Eagles

Bold: Blue Lions

Itallics: Golden deer

Purple: Faculty

Boldunderscoreditallics: DLC


Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94

Average score for Blue lions: 6.82

Average score for Golden Deer: 6.70

 

 

Day 20: Raphael Kirsten

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It's time for the guy who closest to Goku character wise.

Man, imagine if he was actually as powerful as Goku.

Raphael keeps lifting his stats like they're good or something:

Spoiler

His growths and bases are pretty unfortunate. His Str of 11+50% is solid at least. 30+65% HP and 7+45% Def is honestly a solid physical defence, he can be a good choice for armour to hold the line as a result. 5+35% Dex isn't great and I've had to deal with a lot of misses in my time, while 6+35% Luk isn't all that good to be honest, which is an issue for the guy who's supposed to tank. 6+15% Spd is just awful too, he's getting doubled. Cha of 4+25% is very poor, trying to use offensive gambits with him is regularly inconsistent. Mag of 3+15% and 1+10% Res is just awful, no point in him using magic.

His Strengths and Weaknesses are pretty meh, but could be worse. Strengths of Axe, Brawl and Armour are only alright, but War Master and Fortress Knight strats are very easy to get and easy Killer Knuckles are underappreciated. Weaknesses in Riding and Bow aren't great, bit of a shame but it could be worse.

His magic's atrocious, Reason gives Fire and Bolganone, Faith gives her H + N and Recover, let's move on.

His personal skill's Goody Basket, giving him a Luk% chance of healing 10%, fuck me this is awful. No crest either.

He's got poor combat arts, with Wild Abandon in Axes and Monster Crusher and Draining Blow in Brawl, so no doubling brawl sucks and having no accuracy CA's also poor. He also gets Rally Str and Battalion Wrath in Authority skills which is actually pretty good, especially Rally Str in the early game, which helps with a strat for DK in chapter 4 for sure.

At least he gives a good battalion in his paralogue.

How did I find him?

Spoiler

In VW, he was stocky as all hell. 78 HP + 36 Def is insane on Hard, 39 Str was good, but I know could have been more, Luk was 28, but everything else was below 20 and that's the Raph experience. I was solidly going with Brawl/Axes/Authority and Armour even though I used Brawler + Warrior (Mistakes, I didn't master Brigand or WM)

In CF, he went down similar routes, but despite being 7 levels lower and being out of house got A Brawl and a madhouse 42 Str, shame his other stats were once again meh and his Def was 25. Going grappler and Brigand helped him a fair bit

In AM, he died at Gronder.

In SS, I also let him die. Well, considering I didn't get to kill him maybe he retreated during the Gronder fight and got away.

In my Maddening playthrough, he was definitely relevant. Very strong at 47 Str, alright Def at 30 and 73 HP, shame nothing else was higher than 23 Dex. Of course, he did one of the most critical things in the playthrough by tanking Wind Caller after distracting with a gambit (and giving Hilda that Rally Str for C4 DK and being the first KK guy). A good mastery list in Noble > Fighter > Brigand/Brawler (Later Archer) > Warrior/Grappler > War Master, he still had tools to do stuff and had Smite to work with too. Though it was stupid seeing him vs. swordmasters and seeing them with 100 Hit and Raph with 0 because he had a steel axe and he doubled.

I just wish I could say he was better, but someone just fucked up with his statlines and skills. He actually is pretty decent in WM/Grappler, but beyond that I see why people would bench him. 4.5/10 still because someone has to and it might as well be the guy who was saved by him vs. Wind Caller.

Edited by Dayni
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Raphael is unfortunately a min-max character that didn't get very maxed for Maddening.  In some stats, he has some of the worst growths in the game (10% res, 25% cha, 15% mag), including an outright appalling 15% speed growth.  You would think that with all of these weaknesses, it would translate into great benefits in other stat categories.  But Raphael's strength growth is merely above average, not amazing.  And while his defense growth is higher than most other units in the game (45% def), it is by a pitifully small margin as there are many units with 40% def growths themselves.

Raphael does not get any noteworthy Combat Arts, does not have a Hero's Relic, and does not even have a crest.  He Rally Strength, which is something, but in the early game Raphael is one of the units that can consistently deal decent damage.  You really don't want to waste him Rallying other units.

Even his boons and banes have some warts to them.  He has boons in axes, gauntlets, and armor, which does provide decent options in terms getting into Grappler or War Master.  He could go into Armored Knight, but the class is terrible on Maddening.  But the real insult here is the bane in riding which effectively prevents him from getting into Great Knight.  As one of the few units that has a somewhat defensively oriented stat block, it's just a bad design choice by the devs.

Purely on the strength of being able to easily get into Grappler and War Master, which are effective end game classes (due to Fierce Iron Fist and Quick Riposte, respectively), Raphael can be usable.  And without Balthus around to eat his lunch in the DLC, he makes as of an option as nearly anyone else in those classes.  But there are absolutely better options overall for units.  I'll give Raphael a 4/10.

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Raphael is a pretty decent unit, but he doesn’t really stand out until later in the game. He has pretty high HP and good defense, so he can take most hits, but he’s slow and will probably get doubled. His personal skill is basically useless. He has a strength in axes so getting into Brigand isn’t too much effort, but to get Hit+20 from Archer will take some time because of his bow weakness. 

He doesn’t get too many great combat arts, and that’s my biggest issue with him compared to other Brawlers. Monster Crush can deal heavy damage to monsters, but Death Blow with Gauntlets out damages it soon enough. He gets Rally Strength to help out his allies. Unlike Caspar and Felix he doesn’t have a flaw in Authority, so he can get good battalions to help him out sooner than they do. From his paralogue Leicester Mercenaries is pretty good. He and Ignatz give each other extra might from supporting each other, and you get Hilda with him in Golden Deers, so that helps with his damage output.

For classes Grappler and War Master are excellent classes. Death Blow and Fierce Iron Fist is a delete button. In War Master, War Master’s Strike is another delete button, and Quick Reposte makes him a dependable tank. In low difficulties his Gauntlet attacks should be able to one round most things early on, and he can Mace Armored units.

My Rating: 4/10. He needs some attention to be good, but he can get the job done.

Edited by LoneStar
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Raphael and Caspar are kind of like a Bartre/Dorcas situation in terms of stats. Raphael as the "Dorcas" has great base stats but terrible growths, while Caspar has terrible base stats and...still not impressive growths. Thank god this isn't FE7, because we have class base stats that keep Raphael's performance steady past the early game. The brawler and Grappler class certifications will double his natural speed by level 20. And if you nab grappler by ~Chapter 9, you can marvel at Raphael actually landing the quad on armor knights, axe users, and lizard monsters. His only noteworthy growths are in Strength, HP, and Defense (surprise, the only stats he needs!) but even strength could stand to be higher than 50. Especially since in universe the only student that matches Raphael's strength is Dimitri. Of his lower stats, Charm is the greatest hindrance, since frontliners need that so much to avoid getting blasted by gambits. His skill proficiencies are also great because it's just the the three areas he needs - axes, gauntlets, and armor. But annoyingly he doesn't start with Smash at level 1 - which would be more accurate and maybe have a couple points more damage than a set of training gauntlets. Unlike Caspar, Raphael can afford to throw hands right out of the gate, especially if he's benefiting from the +6 damage that Hilda's passive provides. 

Of all the prospective gauntlet users in the game, Raphael benefits the most from Fierce Iron Fist, because he has none of bombard, Nimble Combo, or One-Two Punch to be using instead for a boost in damage. He still wants Quick Riposte, but I think it's fair to put him right back into Grappler after he has picked it up. People make fun of Raphael's personal skill because it's so bad to the point of being unlikely to impact your playthrough. It's bad, but I can name five more units with worse ones (Marianne, Linhardt, Ashe, Hanneman, and depending on how you look at it, Cyril). Raphael learns Rally Strength at D, which sounds crucial, but the one person on VW who wants that buff most is Raphael himself. At best, that rally allows you to clinch more kills with somebody who's falling behind in combat exp (hello, Ignatz), or bump up Byleth's gauntlet performance, to delete a troublesome foe. I would still prioritize getting that rally for the early game, but it's not as game changing as Annette using it in BL.

Raphael's pretty low on skill exp investment. You might be able to invest in something exotic for more base stats quicker. Like the Thief's 11 speed rather than settling for the Brawler's 8. But if I'm using Raphael, I'm pushing hard to get fistfaire and better battalions earlier. Too bad no class in the game provides him with a leg up on Charm. But above all Raphael needs experience to hit these class tiers and is probably most in need of the experience gem on the Golden Deer house. If his early game were better, we'd have no trouble justifying all that experience, but no he's just okay and doesn't become any more of a powerhouse than your average gauntlet user. He can be a double wrath user, but that low charm will have him getting pegged for free damage which can shut him down earlier than Alois running the same build. Alois and Recruit!Felix are better than Raphael, but I stop myself before saying they're an easy replacement since Felix is worse outside of his own route, and Alois isn't available for any of the actually difficult maps of VW besides a paralogue or two you find tricky. If Raphael's doing good for you, you may as well stick with him for the long haul. I rate Raphael a 4.0 out of 10. Because even if you bench this guy, he'll still contribute to your playthrough either through rally strength or being your guard adjutant. He especially boosts Ignatz' performance as his guard adjutant but Ignatz' viability is a coin flip on this route where it wouldn't be on other routes. There's no guarantee that Raphael will boost the performance of a unit when that unit may end up being benched or converted into a rally bot

Edited by Glennstavos
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Let's talk Raphael, considered on VW Maddening.

The Bad

Stat-wise, Raphael has some clear weak points. His Magic (3+0.15x) and Resistance (1+0.10x) are poor, even for a physical unit, so he'll have to steer clear of mages. His Speed (6+0.15x) is among the lowest in the game, rendering him vulnerable to doubles. And his Charm (5+0.25x) leaves a lot to be desired - you're better off sticking him with a support gambit.

As for proficiencies, he's weak in three areas. His Reason bane should come as no surprise, and further closes magical options to him. A weakness in Bows, though, makes Archer (and Hit+20) that little bit harder to get into. And a Riding bane makes going Paladin or Great Knight - much less getting Move+1 - a tough sell.

How about personal traits? Well, he's got no Crest, so he'll take a penalty if he tries to use, say, the Aegis Shield, or Freikugel. And while his personal ability doesn't hurt him, it also almost never helps him. A Luck% chance to restore 10% of his HP at the start of a turn, are you kidding me? Even on the odd chance it activates, it hardly does anything.

Returning to magic, his spell list is... possibly the single worst combined spell list in the game. Fire, Bolganone, and Recover... seriously? Even Dedue at least got Ragnarok. As for combat arts, he only has three restricted ones, and I gotta say, they're not impressive. Wild Abandon makes the least accurate weapon type even less accurate, while Monster Crusher and Mighty Blow abandon the one cool thing about Gauntlets (the Brave effect). Can there be any hope for this overweight orphan?

The Good

Answer: Sorta? Raphael is a unit of extremes - while he sucks in some areas, he's quite good in others - namely, the "armor knight" stats. His HP (30+0.65x) and Defense (7+0.45x) are pretty solid together, letting him take a physical hit or two. And his Strength (11+0.50x) means he can hit back fairly hard. To be exhaustive, his Dex (5+0.35x) and Luck (6+0.35x) are both pretty middle-of-the-road.

As for his proficiencies, boons in Axes and Armor should come as no surprise. So he'll have an easy road to Brigand, and he can certify in Armor Knight, or go for Weight-3. Longer-term, Fortress Knight is an option, while being neutral in flight mean the Wyvern classes are very realistic for him. Raphael may best be known, however, for his propensity for punching. With his Gauntlet boon, Grappler and War Master are each good choices, each delivering serious offensive muster. Also, he can easily get Healing Focus, to make up for his lackluster personal.

Raphael has another neat tech, that's easy to overlook. From D-Authority, he offers Rally Strength. This can be useful to help allies like Claude or Hilda hit killing benchmarks they would otherwise miss. This can synergize with Ignatz's own rallies (Speed, Dex), to set an ally up to really sweep come enemy phase (admittedly, at the cost of two units spending their turn rallying). He also learns Battalion Wrath, which could come to some use even without Vantage, given his bulk.

The Verdict

I think this is the first review where I've fit more into "The Bad" than "The Good", which is... fairly telling. With his "armor knight" stats, Raphael can perform pretty well in classes like Fortress Knight snd War Master. An Axe boon means Death Blow and the Wyvern classes are within his grasp. And Rally Strength is a decent tech. Beyond that, though, there's very little to set him out. He has no Crest and (practically) no Personal, his Speed is atrocious, his magical potential is among the lowest in the game, and he has no standout combat arts. With a heavy heart, I'm rating Raphael a 3 out of 10.

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4/10, because he isn’t very good. Raphael’s bases in strength and HP are nice, as well as his growths in them... but that’s pretty much it. I mean he has one of the highest defenses in the game, but 45% still isn’t super great so meh. I’m return, he has a 15% growth in speed, a 10% growth in res, and a 25% growth in charm. Ouch. On the bright side, has has boons in brawling and axes if you want to use him, and war master is such a good class that that actually gets him points. If you’re playing Verdant Wind on maddening, which this ranking assumes, his strength base will keep him as one of your most reliable damage dealers in the early game. Just... drop him afterward. And he can rally strength I guess. That’s useful but we all know who the real rally bot is, and she can also rally strength. So yeah, use him in VW early game and then bench him or make him a guard adjutant, armor boon is also nice for that, 4/10.

Edited by Sooks1016
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5 hours ago, Dayni said:

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

No vote, and this rule set is no-DLC anyway, but I will say that Raphael is 100% the most obsoleted character in the game with the addition of DLC, as Balthus is basically Raphael-but-better (Raphael bad because not Balthus?).  Balthus has a flying bane (but eh, you have plenty of Wyvern options anyway in Hilda / Cyril) and slightly worse HP growth, but is equal-or-better everything else, including a Crest, a better Passive, a Relic Weapon, a War Monk magic build for utility and Brawl Avo +20 and chipping high-Def / low-Res enemies, and much better Resistance himself.  Balthus even supports 3 of the Deer, too, so the usual saving grace for a weak-stat but in-house unit isn't there as strongly in the Power of Friendship.  Kind of unusual, for the most part there aren't very many strictly-betters in character comparison, but Balthus vs. Raph is a rare case that's pretty darn close.

Other than that, what everyone else said - makes a good Grappler because it turns out that HP, Str, and a trip through Brigand are the only things you need for that, go punch the lights out of some jerks with Fierce Iron Fist.  The Fortress Knight build is there too; it's slightly more serviceable on Hard but falls apart on Maddening even more for Raph than it would for Dedue vs. the kind of impressive enemy offense that you'll see, but whatever, that's a bit of a trap anyway.

Edited by SnowFire
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Now get to someone whose passion is eating, training,...and that's it. Raphael is the big bruiser for the Golden Deer house who also has a personality of a big brother. He's also an older brother in the literal sense as he always brings up his little sis Maya. But who good is Raphael actually? This is assuming hard and no dlc.

Raphael's stats are typical for a bruiser with some physical bulk but poor stats everywhere else. His HP is the highest in the game with a sky high 65% growth starting with 30 HP. His strength and defense growth are pretty good as well. He starts with 11 strength that has a 50% growth and 7 defense with a 45% growth. His dex is quite shaky with a stat of 5 and a 35% growth. The rest of his stats are outright bad. His speed is bad, a stat of 6 with a 15% growth. No way is he going to outrun anyone anytime. Except for maybe Dedue. His charm is not any better. 4 with a 25% growth means he's vulnerable to enemy gambits. His Resistance might as well not exist. A stat of 1 with a 10%! No thanks. His personal ability is completely up to luck. Good Basket recovers a portion of his HP pending on his Luck stat. And luck is not something you really want to rely on.

He has a boon in axes, brawling and heavy armor. Pretty typical for a defensive unit. He has a bane in bows, reason and riding. The weakness in bows is something that he can overcome if you want, the other two you could ignore as I doubt he would want his speed further penalized. His combat arts in terms of learning anything new would be Wild Abandon at C+ rank in axes, and then Monster Crusher at C+ rank and Draining Blow at A rank in brawling. From my personal experience using Raphael, I've seen him been effective with Fading Blow. Giving him 30 avoid he has been consistently dodging attacks for me. Call me lucky but that was from my previous play through. Him also being able to back 1 space away from the enemy opens up a number of things for you. He also gets Rally Strength at Authority rank D. He's also neutral in Authority unlike Caspar. That's the only niche he has over him. Battalion Wrath works nicely with Warmaster's Quick Riposte.

His class path should normally consist of him being Fighter to get strength +2. Brigand for Death Blow to help his considerable strength growth. Grappler is a good option for him to get Tomebreaker and then Fierce Iron Fist. Warmaster like I mentioned earlier gets Quick Riposte which circumvents his trash speed. He could also go Wyvern Lord if you want to boost his bulk and movment but he would be limited to flying battalions. Plus Alert Stance + and Battalion Wrath is a nice combo as well. He could also go guard adjutant as well by beginning of part 2 as he is perfectly replaceable if desired. 

Honestly, he's a 4/10 unit for me. There is something there to use with him, at least in the beginning. By part 2, similar to Lorenz, he can be a bench warmer or adjutant. 

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Three words: Knights. Food. Training. What is he, Kris?

     Skill Levels:      Boons: Brawling and Armor at D, Axes at E+. Banes: Bows, Reason, and Riding. That last on prevents him from being a Great Knight.

     Abilities:     Goodie Basket is a travesty. I’ll not continue. Rally Strength at D helps early on. Battalion Wrath can allow a Crit build, but normal Wrath and Vantage can’t work with Quick Riposte, but it’s still a good idea.

     Arts:     His Arts are bad. Wild Abandon can’t hit the side of a barn, Monster Crusher is a Monster Art, and Draining Blow is pointless. You can ‘fix’ Wild Abandon with an Accuracy Ring and/or Hit +20, but why bother. And Draining Blow is superseded by literally any healer.

     Stats:     30+65% Hp and 7+45% Defense makes for amazing bulk.11+50% Strength is solid. All of his other stats can be summed up with one word: BAD.

     Classes:     Beginner- Fighter

Intermediate- Brigand for Death Blow then Armor Knight for Tanking

Advanced- either Fortress Knight for Tanking or Grappler for Fistfaire

Master- War Master. Great Knight simply takes too long to get to be worth it

          The Verdict

Very simple unit here. No tricks, schemes, or hidden parts. Raphael hits hard, twice if using Gauntlets. He can eat Physical damage by the truckload. He will be doubled and dies to a Mage’s fart. 4.5/10. Useable.

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2/10. Where in the name of Duma do I start? Is it the poor stats in most parameters (by which I mean literally everything other than Strength, HP, and Defense)? Or is it the lack of useful combat arts? OR is it the fact that he needs to be dragged along to level 20, and master an advanced class, and stay in it just to be decent when most other characters take ten billion percent less effort to be good, in addition to the fact that his stat build does not age well? Long story short, trying to raise Raphael is like trying to raise a Deino. Or a Larvesta. He's also one of, if not the main reason why I think that the Golden Deer are the weakest house in terms of initial roster.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Raphael mostly looks like a worse Dedue, but at least he can't compete with Dedue on his home route. He's not great, but he definitely has his merits.

The good: Raphael has three strong stats: 30+65% HP is the best in the game, 7+45% def is second to Dedue, and 11+50% str is solid, comparable to Felix and a bit ahead of Hilda. The strength in particular is the important stat, allowing him to hit hard with a brave weapon, Fierce Iron Fist, or reliably critical-OHKO with a Wrath build, for instance. The HP/def are a nice bonus, although as we'll see in a moment, they really don't end up much of an advantage in practice.

His talent list includes axes, giving him easy access to the wyvern, and armour, giving him easy access to Weight-3. Thanks to the great speed base of the wyvern line (and to a lesser extent other advanced classes like Grappler, if you'd prefer), he ends up not as slow as one might fear, though still slow, especially during Intermediate tier.

The less good: Raphael's stats besides HP/str/def are definitely not good. 6+15% speed is awful, and completely sabotages his durability. As an example, archers on chapter 2 deal 20 damage to him (before Poison Strike), because they double him (and no other Deer). And with 15% growth he'll be facing doubles for a long time, from many things. And you definitely want to keep him away from mages, who double and deal extreme damage to his 1+10% res. Even once you get his defence rolling via battalions, shields, class bonuses, etc., you'll still need to watch out for those, as well as gambits against his 4+25% charm. When fellow Deer Leonie has the same base Def and only 5% less growth, while being far superior to him in spd/res/charm, it becomes clear that he's not going to excel in a tanking role, except a highly specialized one.

He also doesn't bring much else to the table outside his strength. His set of unique combat arts is pretty shallow (Monster Breaker is decent, with its 9 mt and weakness hits); unlike many other characters with a strength in brawling he does not get any two-hit combat art. He gets Rally Strength, but if I didn't think that highly of Annette getting Rally Str+Spd for one ability slot, you can probably guess how much credit I give Str alone - the best thing I will say about his Rally is it gives him something to do while funnelling exp into other characters if you plan to bench him. His personal might just be the worst in the game.

Ultimately Raphael's only hope is to try to use his high str as best you can. Str is a very important stat in this game, so Raphael ends up not as bad as he would with the same stat build in some other Fire Emblem games. But even in this one, other characters like Felix, Hilda, and Sylvain have either equal to only slightly less strength, and do so many other things better than him, so he ends up feeling outclassed anyway. Raphael gets a 3.5/10 (rated on Maddening).

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Based on GD Maddening, I give Raphael a 3.5/10 with 0.5 bias point, he has so many issues and isn't worth training.

Pros:

- Decent bases and is kinda tanky.

- Rally Strength.

- Can be easily trained in either Wyvern or Warmaster classline since he has a boon in Axe and no weakness in other required stats.

Cons:

- Growths are garbage asides from HP Def and Str.

- Mages eat him alive.

- Useless personal.

- Combat Arts are either meh or just straight up terrible.

- Gets outclassed by most physical combat units in the game.

Imo he's the weakest unit in his house and second worst student in the game, the only person who's worse than him is Caspar.

 

Edited by Ari Chan
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16 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

2/10. Where in the name of Duma do I start? Is it the poor stats in most parameters (by which I mean literally everything other than Strength, HP, and Defense)? Or is it the lack of useful combat arts? OR is it the fact that he needs to be dragged along to level 20, and master an advanced class, and stay in it just to be decent when most other characters take ten billion percent less effort to be good, in addition to the fact that his stat build does not age well? Long story short, trying to raise Raphael is like trying to raise a Deino. Or a Larvesta. He's also one of, if not the main reason why I think that the Golden Deer are the weakest house in terms of initial roster.

At least with Larvesta and Deino, there's a clear reward once you raise them up. Raphael is more like a Roggenrola. Slow, defensive, decent attack. He can get better (Boldore), but can't become really good (Gigalith), because it turns out you're emulating and thereby have no way of trading. You wanna charge the Elite Four with a Boldore? I mean, you can, but he's gonna be a weak link.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

At least with Larvesta and Deino, there's a clear reward once you raise them up. Raphael is more like a Roggenrola. Slow, defensive, decent attack. He can get better (Boldore), but can't become really good (Gigalith), because it turns out you're emulating and thereby have no way of trading. You wanna charge the Elite Four with a Boldore? I mean, you can, but he's gonna be a weak link.

 

18 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

2/10. Where in the name of Duma do I start? Is it the poor stats in most parameters (by which I mean literally everything other than Strength, HP, and Defense)? Or is it the lack of useful combat arts? OR is it the fact that he needs to be dragged along to level 20, and master an advanced class, and stay in it just to be decent when most other characters take ten billion percent less effort to be good, in addition to the fact that his stat build does not age well? Long story short, trying to raise Raphael is like trying to raise a Deino. Or a Larvesta. He's also one of, if not the main reason why I think that the Golden Deer are the weakest house in terms of initial roster.

Plus at least Hydreigon and Volcarona are really good pokemon even by Gen 8 standards

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3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

At least with Larvesta and Deino, there's a clear reward once you raise them up. Raphael is more like a Roggenrola. Slow, defensive, decent attack. He can get better (Boldore), but can't become really good (Gigalith), because it turns out you're emulating and thereby have no way of trading. You wanna charge the Elite Four with a Boldore? I mean, you can, but he's gonna be a weak link.

 

1 hour ago, Barren said:

 

Plus at least Hydreigon and Volcarona are really good pokemon even by Gen 8 standards

I was thinking more in the context of in their debut generation, where Larvesta must be raised from level 1, and isn't available until you've obtained your sixth badge. Deino, meanwhile, is caught at Victory Road. Both also have exceedingly high evolution levels (50 for Deino to evolve into Zweilous, which doesn't evolve into Hydreigon until level 64, and 59 for Larvesta). And that's ignoring their other issues (in Deino's case, Hustle, and the aforementioned level 1 start for Larvesta). You can work with them in spite of that, but they're gonna drag your team down.

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4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

 

I was thinking more in the context of in their debut generation, where Larvesta must be raised from level 1, and isn't available until you've obtained your sixth badge. Deino, meanwhile, is caught at Victory Road. Both also have exceedingly high evolution levels (50 for Deino to evolve into Zweilous, which doesn't evolve into Hydreigon until level 64, and 59 for Larvesta). And that's ignoring their other issues (in Deino's case, Hustle, and the aforementioned level 1 start for Larvesta). You can work with them in spite of that, but they're gonna drag your team down.

So they show up late and with flaws, take a lot of investment, but can become something great? That sounds more like an Est-archetype than anything else. I don't know if Three Houses can be said to have an Est, but if they do, Raphael ain't it.

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