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War was inevitable. Edelgard just sped things up.

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8 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I'm of the mind that everything you see from the characters in Part 1 during their routes canonically happens.

In that Dimitri overhears the conversation between Thales and the Flame Emperor on every route, as Claude reads up about the Immaculate One, and so on and so forth. 

BL version: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/110

BE: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/109

GD: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/111

He is not there to witness that scene in the other routes. We can tell because the scene unravels differently when Dimitri is there and he tries to attack them from the shadows. Also his dialogue in the monastery in the following chapter is different. In BL he starts hearing voices, he was evidently disturbed by something, but on the other routes he is still the usual.

That's a cool assumption to make but it's contradicted in the game.

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3 hours ago, SRPG Tryhard said:

BL version: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/110

BE: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/109

GD: https://fedatamine.com/en-us/scenarios/111

He is not there to witness that scene in the other routes. We can tell because the scene unravels differently when Dimitri is there and he tries to attack them from the shadows. Also his dialogue in the monastery in the following chapter is different. In BL he starts hearing voices, he was evidently disturbed by something, but on the other routes he is still the usual.

That's a cool assumption to make but it's contradicted in the game.

How is it contradicted? The fact is, in BE and GD, the conversation is cut off when Thales says "All for a purpose..." whereas in BL, the conversation continues. 

Also, the line of dialogue being different between BL and non-BL is a case of how much Dimitri is willing to open up and divulge because of Byleth's presence in the story for their house. 

The same event of Dimitri being attacked by a dagger in non-BL routes can still happen, but we wouldn't know that unless we played BL. 

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8 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

How is it contradicted? The fact is, in BE and GD, the conversation is cut off when Thales says "All for a purpose..." whereas in BL, the conversation continues. 

Also, the line of dialogue being different between BL and non-BL is a case of how much Dimitri is willing to open up and divulge because of Byleth's presence in the story for their house. 

The same event of Dimitri being attacked by a dagger in non-BL routes can still happen, but we wouldn't know that unless we played BL. 

Byleth is also there to stop Dimitri from charging and they blow their cover when they are heard talking to each other. Byleth isn't there on the other routes. It's a stretch to say the scene would cut like what you are saying to deceive the players. Why would they do something like this for just this one scene? To hide from us the reason Dimitri hates Edelgard?

When was he attacked by a dagger?

Edited by SRPG Tryhard

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1 hour ago, SRPG Tryhard said:

Byleth is also there to stop Dimitri from charging and they blow their cover when they are heard talking to each other. Byleth isn't there on the other routes. It's a stretch to say the scene would cut like what you are saying to deceive the players. Why would they do something like this for just this one scene? To hide from us the reason Dimitri hates Edelgard?

When was he attacked by a dagger?

They absolutely should have had Dimitri rush onto the scene in all routes imo. The game does an atrocious job of utilizing the lord's in the first part beyond the one you pair with. Having some scenes of them doing relative things regardless of who you're with was pretty necessary.

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6 hours ago, SRPG Tryhard said:

Byleth is also there to stop Dimitri from charging and they blow their cover when they are heard talking to each other. Byleth isn't there on the other routes. It's a stretch to say the scene would cut like what you are saying to deceive the players. Why would they do something like this for just this one scene? To hide from us the reason Dimitri hates Edelgard?

When was he attacked by a dagger?

I mean, he wasn't exactly stopped, so even without Byleth, and Dimitri was about to make a move, the dagger would have been thrown and the trio would have left in the end. 

But the overall case is that they only made these types of scenes exclusive to the route you choose is... just that. To make these scenes exclusive. Apart from Edelgard, the other lords really don't get that much screen time in routes not dedicated about that.

Edelgard maintains some presence even in BL and GD, cause she is the lead driving force of the plot. 

Dimitri and Claude don't appear in CF apart from the two mock battles. 

It's only in their given routes that they have the ability to really show some scenes that are about them. Like Claude reading up on the Immaculate One or revealing that he had come to Fodlan with an intent to steal the Sword of the Creator. Or Dimitri investigating Arundel or overhearing the talk between the Flame Emperor and Thales. 

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6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I mean, he wasn't exactly stopped, so even without Byleth, and Dimitri was about to make a move, the dagger would have been thrown and the trio would have left in the end. 

But the overall case is that they only made these types of scenes exclusive to the route you choose is... just that. To make these scenes exclusive. Apart from Edelgard, the other lords really don't get that much screen time in routes not dedicated about that.

Edelgard maintains some presence even in BL and GD, cause she is the lead driving force of the plot. 

Dimitri and Claude don't appear in CF apart from the two mock battles. 

It's only in their given routes that they have the ability to really show some scenes that are about them. Like Claude reading up on the Immaculate One or revealing that he had come to Fodlan with an intent to steal the Sword of the Creator. Or Dimitri investigating Arundel or overhearing the talk between the Flame Emperor and Thales. 

Imo it would have been far better to show those scenes (and more, because the number of exclusive scenes is pitifully small). The exclusivity would have been in the context around them. Like if I'm playing Crimson Flower on my first playthrough and Dimitri did charge out of nowhere then and there then I'd be like "Whoa. Now I want to play his route to find out what lead to that!" Which as it turns out in Blue Lions isn't a massive amount as much like most of part one it just simply happens, but it still would have done something to make the Ghost Dimitri in Silver Snow have something resembling coherency in that plot. Instead now where just meant to believe that Byleth just had a momentary aneurism or something and just didn't notice Dimitri revealing himself at all?

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On 11/10/2020 at 12:37 PM, omegaxis1 said:

How is it contradicted? The fact is, in BE and GD, the conversation is cut off when Thales says "All for a purpose..." whereas in BL, the conversation continues. 

Also, the line of dialogue being different between BL and non-BL is a case of how much Dimitri is willing to open up and divulge because of Byleth's presence in the story for their house. 

The same event of Dimitri being attacked by a dagger in non-BL routes can still happen, but we wouldn't know that unless we played BL. 

I think there are many things in that scene that doesn't quite make sense, like Dimitri blaming Edelgard when he clearly heard the Flame Emperor condemn the tragedy of Duscur. He should know better, but I guess he is that desperate for a scapegoat in order to deal with his own trauma.

It is also pretty weird Edelgard manages to drop that dagger when it is so important to her. Did she do so on purpose for whatever reason?

Edited by Darkmoon6789

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29 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

It is also pretty weird Edelgard manages to drop that dagger when it is so important to her. Did she do so on purpose for whatever reason?

Call it what it is contrived foreshadowing. Not that that’s a bad thing mind you but still it’s to help foreshadow the flame emperor’s identity. It’s not a huge deal but that’s the only explanation I can come up with. 

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4 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Edelgard lost her memories of much of her childhood, including Dimitri's gift of the dagger, so it wasn't important to her when she threw it.

Yet she still has it after all these years. To my understanding she didn't remember Dimitri, or at least she didn't realise the boy she used to be friends with was Dimitri. But she had vague memories of that dagger and "cutting your own path"

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Considering she literally threw the dagger at someone hiding in the bushes, going to retrieve it would be foolish, and it was safer just to escape. Regardless of whether or not she remembers the dagger’s significance, my guess is she decided she needed to cut her losses, forget the dagger, and get out of there.

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Frankly, even being in Academy grounds to have a talk with the Agarthans is downright silly. Like, come on. They aren't even TRYING to keep things secret. 

It's about as dumb as Edelgard needing to put on the Flame Emperor disguise and go all the way to see Kostas when he's already marked for death. Why bother talking to the guy that you basically have no more need for?

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24 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Frankly, even being in Academy grounds to have a talk with the Agarthans is downright silly. Like, come on. They aren't even TRYING to keep things secret. 

It's about as dumb as Edelgard needing to put on the Flame Emperor disguise and go all the way to see Kostas when he's already marked for death. Why bother talking to the guy that you basically have no more need for?

Maybe she was planning on using him more but his attitude pissed her off.

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14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Maybe she was planning on using him more but his attitude pissed her off.

I doubt that she saw him as someone that was in any way useful. And now that the Knights of Seiros was on his trail, he was already a dead man. I doubt that she had any further use for him, so it makes no sense to even try to meet him to discuss what happened. 

If anything, that scene exists just as an excuse to say that Edelgard had ordered the attack for some purpose.

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46 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I doubt that she saw him as someone that was in any way useful. And now that the Knights of Seiros was on his trail, he was already a dead man. I doubt that she had any further use for him, so it makes no sense to even try to meet him to discuss what happened. 

If anything, that scene exists just as an excuse to say that Edelgard had ordered the attack for some purpose.

Well more than that it is the first appearance of the Flame Emperor period. With that when would she first appear in that guise? Would it be...in the chapter where Flayn gets kidnapped? It'd be a lot more random a thing there if she wasn't shown earlier here.

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12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well more than that it is the first appearance of the Flame Emperor period. With that when would she first appear in that guise? Would it be...in the chapter where Flayn gets kidnapped? It'd be a lot more random a thing there if she wasn't shown earlier here.

Chapter 4, actually, when the Flame Emperor reports to Arundel about the Sword of the Creator.

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Chapter 4, actually, when the Flame Emperor reports to Arundel about the Sword of the Creator.

Ah yes. Though from a writing perspective I think introducing the Flame Emperor first with Kostas (a guy we know) and then introducing Arundel in Chapter 4 along with a guy we know (Flame Emperor) would be better than just introducing two random people we don't know in Chapter 4. They just need to better justify why Edelgard would go to speak with Kostas.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ah yes. Though from a writing perspective I think introducing the Flame Emperor first with Kostas (a guy we know) and then introducing Arundel in Chapter 4 along with a guy we know (Flame Emperor) would be better than just introducing two random people we don't know in Chapter 4. They just need to better justify why Edelgard would go to speak with Kostas.

Granted, leaving that scene out altogether would also solve the plot hole that is her hiring Kostas to begin with. Why risk your own life needlessly by hiring someone who is not aware of your true identity when you could have used the Death Knight for the very same purpose (whatever it is). Edelgard could have very easily been caught up in the crossfire and died, which actually almost happens. Would be the stupidest end ever to her plans for revolution. Kostas would make more sense as an opportunistic bandit rather than a pawn of the Flame Emperor. 

I like Edelgard but Jesus Christ some of her early plans are really stupid.

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21 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Granted, leaving that scene out altogether would also solve the plot hole that is her hiring Kostas to begin with. Why risk your own life needlessly by hiring someone who is not aware of your true identity when you could have used the Death Knight for the very same purpose (whatever it is). Edelgard could have very easily been caught up in the crossfire and died, which actually almost happens.

Eh, video game power level logic suggests that Edelgard was never actually in danger there. Obviously in real life being anywhere near a battle is dangerous, but FE definitely subscribes to the philosophy that powerful individuals have nothing to fear from bandits (hence the dismissive comments made by various characters before Chapter 2, e.g. Dorothea and Felix).

I agree that Jeritza as the "bandit leader" would likely have made more sense, but it's certainly possible there was a good reason he couldn't be used. It might just have been random duties at Garreg Mach... or it's possible the plan was for him to be the hero so he could be appointed the third teacher, but Claude leading the bandits in an unexpected direction ruined that plan. It's a bit sad that the game never reveals what the actual plan was there.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
typo

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On 11/9/2020 at 11:26 PM, omegaxis1 said:

I think the dumber thing is that no one bothers to even correct him in the game. Like, no one points out that there's no way that a 13-14 year old girl could have been behind Duscur.

Maybe they're all dumb.

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