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Benice

Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 21: Lysithea

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Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse.

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Dimtri: 9.14

Edelgard: 9.00

Claude: 8.977

Felix: 8.625

Petra: 8.34

Ferdinand: 7.78

Sylvain: 7.66

Ingrid: 7.34

Hilda: 7.31

Bernadetta: 7.125

Linhardt: 7.11

Mercedes: 6.756

Dorothea: 6.375

Dedue: 5.8571

Annette: 5.5375

Hubert: 5.525

Ignatz: 4.88

Caspar: 4.32

Lorenz: 3.8077

Raphael: 3.7273

Ashe: 3.69 (nice)

 

 

Underscore: Black Eagles

Bold: Blue Lions

Itallics: Golden deer

Purple: Faculty

Boldunderscoreditallics: DLC


Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94

Average score for Blue lions: 6.82

Average score for Golden Deer: 4.97

 

Day 21: Lysithea

This is an opportune time to mention this:

Onewf9l.jpg

Although this definitely qualifies as a "Dedue bad mage" moment...

Edited by Benice

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I'll rate Lysithea 9.5/10, mainly because of her ability to get Warp the fastest and that really is it actually.

Before someone says "Lysithea is good because she can 1-shot the Death Knight" or "Lysithea is good because she can use Thyrsus"... I'd like to add that the Death Knight is an optional boss that (in the chapters where 1-shotting him matters, which is Chapter 4, other appearances of the DK can literally be dealt with by anyone with Knight Kneeler + LoR). In addition, literally any unit can literally use Thyrsus, the ones that don't have the crest simply just take -10 damage each time. Pavise/Aegis are fine but, you really shouldn't be putting her in danger of physical units to make use of Pavise (not to mention it isn't guaranteed), and her res is high enough to where Aegis really only matters against opposing bow users. Only bringing this up because I've seen these to arguments brought up  pretty consistently to support Lysithea's high placement.

Outside of Warp, Lysithea is your traditional glass-cannon with low defenses but high magic and speed. Mastermind is great for allowing her to level up Faith really quickly, and having access to warp at B rank Faith as opposed to A rank Faith is also incredibly good. Warp allows you to cheese chapters like 5, 6, 11, 12, BL/VW 17, BL 18 and others. She has 2 crests which is cool but, I've honestly never found them useful in a mage build? Lysithea already has high enough magic where Crest of Gloucester is just overkill, and Crest of Charon really only applies to Soul Blade which you probably won't use as a mage. Her reason list is pretty impressive with Dark Spikes and Swarm for a speed debuff utility early on but, there's also the nature of dark magic having more might/weight and less hit. I can't really comment on Lysithea's hit rate/1-shot potential on Maddening since I more or less treated her like a glorified Lena/Silque/Safy that can defend herself or chip when she needs to but, I'm sure Shadow Mir will cover that later (if they do post). I did not find that Lysithea needed a crazy long Warp range in order to be successful (Mekkah's BL Maddening playthrough showcases this) mainly due to having other Warp users, Rescue, stride, Dance of the Goddess, a Dancer, etc. to help cover more terrain (not to mention that outside of CF route and VW final map, the bosses are very easy to reach in 1 or 2 turns and there's only 1 of them usually). 

One observation I've noticed that is used against Lysithea is the fact she doesn't benefit from Warlock, which makes sense on the surface since she doesn't benefit from Black Tomefaire or Black Magic x2. However, the most optimal path I found (and probably others) is to throw her into Bishop for White Magic x2 (which means an extra Warp use, since I remember someone pointing out that Lysithea needs Gremory for her full potential to have 2 warp uses). Lysithea doesn't really benefit from Warlock bases like say, Dorothea or Lorenz who both can get Magic screwed early on, since she probably will have a high enough Magic/Speed stat at the point (not to mention Dark magic has higher might anyways). Missing a tomefaire also doesn't seem to matter since on my Hard mode playthroughs where I used her as a combat unit, she always ended having better combat potential than the units who did go through the Warlock line, again due to her magic growth and Dark magic's higher might. Anyways to conclude, Bishop is still the best path for her regardless due to slightly better growths (in Charm) and extra White Magic uses.

Overall, Lysithea's easiest access to Warp is why I gave her a very generous score. Lysithea having great magical combat is definitely a plus but, I think that's more like a bonus or an added luxury rather than what really makes Lysithea good in the first place (in my opinion). 

edit - really random thought but I feel like that talk about base stats of current house students (not out of house ones) is honestly kind of pointless, considering all of them bar the 3 lords/Byleth/Petra don't have the greatest base and they are not gonna do well early, and it makes sense because they are all meant to be growth units that scale. I feel like the talk about bases applies moreso to the church staff since they join later, but hey, I could be the only one on that.

Edited by Lunarly

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Ooooooh, best Fire Emblem character appreciation, I'm in for this of course.

 

She's the tactical nuke thanks to her min-maxed growths. Even on maddening she can oneshot certain enemies in player phase and also is the best warp user due to her amazing magic. Her early game is problematic due to her bases and needs dark spikes till she starts to shine. However once she has it, she's one of the hardest hitters in the game who also can attack from range to be saved from any range counter attacks, the best non lord in the game for sure.

9

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6/10 (Maddening)

Statwise Lysithea’s role is immediately made clear. 11+60% magic, 7+60% Dex and 7+50% speed, with 22+20% HP,  4+15% Strength and luck, and 3+10% def. She’s a magical powerhouse who can’t take any hits with her awful bulk, and her luck is a perfect tie in to her role in the story- she’s had a tragic life and she never knows when she’s going to die (ie she’ll face enemy crit a lot. Granted I don’t care so much about that but I find it amusing). Her skill proficiencies also reflect this- she has boons in Reason, Faith and Authority, along with a budding talent in swords, but weaknesses in Lances, Axes and Armour. She’s one of the most straightforward units in the whole game.

Let’s move onto spells and combat arts. Her spell lists are pretty stacked, with Swarm at D+, Luna at C, Dark Spikes at B and Hades at A for Reason, and Warp at B for Faith. Seraphim at C and Abraxas at A are ok. So she has power from her reason list and Warp utility from her faith list. So far so good. She also learns no unique combat arts with the exception of her budding talent, Soulblade, which does magic damage (good) and deals extra damage based off of res (4+25%... less good. Still alright though). And for learned abilities she has Battalion Desperation, which is actually an ok ability on a fast enough unit. Lysithea’s speed is OK, so it should be fine on her, right?

Well now we get into her flaws. My favourite part. Following on from Batt. Desperation, Lysithea’s speed is deceptively bad. While her speed growth is nice, her atrocious strength combined with the high weight of her spells results in a unit that will most likely be doubled by almost everyone on Maddening. In addition to making her already poor bulk suffer even further it means she needs to OHKO enemies or not kill at all. And the high HP that enemies possess make it especially hard for her to do so, even with her most powerful spells like Luna or Hades. Even with Soulblade she may not even outmatch Luna’s damage unless she uses the strongest swords and has a ton of res. It’s not like doing massive damage and not killing by, say, 10 HP is irredeemably bad, but it’s a far cry from the OHKO potential I see her praised for. With my personal play style I like to run multiple magic users, even if they’re just using combat arts or magical weapons. In my last run both Falcon Knight Marianne and War Monk Constance dealt superior magic damage and in my current one she’s slightly better than Hanneman, though not by a significant amount. But she ended up a dedicated Warper the first time, and we’ll see about the current run.

Anyway, Warp is her biggest strength IMO. The utility it gives in terms of positioning is really good. I rated Linhardt a 6.5 (I think, anyway) almost entirely on his physic + warp combo being amazing for a dedicated support. I don’t value physic as much as most people seem to, so Lysithea lacking it isn’t a massive deal IMO. Her combat is way better than Linhardt’s too, even if it’s a little overrated. So all that considered I’d probably rate her a 7. However since I find her overrated, and I straight up don’t like her as a character, I’m docking a point out of spite. So 6/10 is her final rating.

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Can I insert Mekkah's video please? No..awww...fine.

Anyways now we have our child prodigy Lysithea. She has the highest marks out of anyone else in the officer's academy and she has a sweet tooth as well. She's embarrassed about it since it makes her look like a child (at least in her mind). But today we're here to talk about what our little young mage brings to the table. This is assuming hard mode and no DLC.

Lysithea is a textbook example of a glass cannon with some potential but also has her drawbacks as well. Her stat growths are very lob sided. First of all, her magic, speed and dex growths are really high. 11 magic with a 60% growth . 7 dexterity with a 60% growth. 7 speed with a 50% growth. So she has the magical prowess and in some cases the accuracy to land her spells. However, the rest of her stat growths are very low. Her HP, strength and defense are terrible. 22 HP with a 20% growth, 4 strength with a 15% growth and 3 defense with a 10% growth. So she is very frail, so frail that she'll go down in literally one hit throughout the game. So you really need to protect her so she can either apply chip damage with her spells or go for the one shot. Not to mention that her luck and charm are not great either. 4 Luck with a 15% growth and 5 charm with a 30% growth. So offensive battalions might not be the best option for her since her accuracy in gambits would be low. Her personally ability Mastermind doubles her experience in mastering a class as well as leveling up her weapon proficiency. It's a nice little perk for her in case you want her to master a number of classes within a reasonable amount of time. She also bears two crests. The crest of Charon and Gloucester. Charon adds 5 might when using a combat art and Gloucester adds 5 might when using offensive magic. She is also known for capabilities of OHKO'ing the Death Knight with her Dark Spikes spell which adds extra damage to horseback based classed. I know that others will and already have brought it up.

She has a boon in reason, faith and authority. She has a bane in swords, although she also has a budding talent in swords. Lysithea also has a bane in lances, axes and heavy armor. So class options are quite limited for her. Her only combat art she learns if you unlock her budding talent is Soul Blade. This deals damage based on her magic which is way higher than her physical strength. Her reason spell list consist of Miasma, Swarm, Luna, Dark Spikes and Hades. Swarm is nice for lowering the enemy's speed. Luna ignores Res but has a shaky hit rate. Hades is her strongest spell but also the heaviest. Now while her speed is high, the dark magic times are actually quite heavy. Her low strength plays a factor in her attack speed in addition to her speed. So her low strength doesn't let her double anyone that easily. So lowering the enemy's speed or her having a higher strength stat would be necessary for her to start doubling. You could in theory turn her into a pegasus knight to gain Darting Blow. But if you're going for the one shot then you probably don't need it. Her faith spell list other than H + N, consists of Seraphim, Warp and Abraxas. So you can easily tell that she is a pure offensive mage. Seraphim is a nice spell that deals extra damage towards monsters and Warp provides some nice utility. Abraxas is a hard hitting spell but it's nothing that special. Her boon in authority also allows her to equip better battalions which thankfully can patch up some of her hit rate issues which may be a factor as the game progresses. She gets Battalion Desperation at Authority rank C, but feels a little unnecessary because 9 times out of 10 you'll want her to attack from range.

Her class options should be obvious. Monk for magic +2. Mage for Fiendish Blow. She could also pick up Mercenary if you want a Vantage build with her. Plus it will patch up her strength stat quite nicely at level 10. Once she certifies for the Mercenary class, her strength will go up to 11. Vantage in conjunction with a guard adjutant allows her to use her frailty to her advantage. Of course watch out for enemy battalions as her low charm won't do her any favors. She could go Bishop for a bit for early access to double uses of warp. Warlock, while it is nice to gain bowbreaker, warlock gets Black Tomefaire. She only has Dark Magic so Black Tomefaire doesn't really add anything for her. Her easiest master class to go for is Gremory. Double uses of magic is always good. Gremory grants her Defiant Magic so you could do that Vantage strategy as mentioned before along with Fiendish Blow so on player phase when she is on the verge of death she'll death an extra 14 damage which is a huge damage boost. But of course, it's not for everyone and her being a glass canon can screw her over too. She could also go Dark Knight for slightly better damage thanks to Dark Tomefaire and 7 move along with Canto. However on some maps. terrain will be an issue for her so you might have to dismount at times.  This effectively makes the work you put into riding obsolete. But on a open plain field with little to no obstacle, this class excels. Then there is Mortal Savant for the memes. Swordfaire allows her to use a Levin Sword+ from 3 range effectively and she can still use Soul Blade for the one shot. She can even use Thunderband's high might along with Soul Blade. Though Mortal Savant decreases her speed growth which is a no no. Finally, she can use Thyrsus (so can everyone else that bears a crest without taking residual damage). Her biggest issue with her spells is they lack range. Thyrsus fixes that and you can even combine that with Dark Magic Range +1 for a nice 5 range spell offensive. Aegis and Pavise is nice on her since her dex stat growth is really good, but again her low HP and defense can still let her down.

Overall, I think Lysithea for me is a 7.5/10 unit. Her reputation as a glass canon that can delete enemies with her high magic is well earned. No doubt that people gravitate towards her because of her powerful attacks but indefensible bulk. If you level her up with proper care, she can play a big role in punching holes (or rather blasting holes with her magic) for the team.

Edited by Barren

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Ah yes the gremlin, even when she gets taller than Hilda still a gremlin. So Lysithea is a very notorious character in this game for her nuking potential. Her magic growth is really high and her speed and skill are pretty good, but everything else is kind of low. She can deal heavy chip early on, and can eventually one round or just one shot many enemies. 

She learns the Soulblade combat art through a budding talent in swords, and this is a pretty strong attack coming off of her high magic. The issue is her Res growth is low so she doesn’t get as much as some other characters get out of it, and she has to get close to the enemy, which might be risky at times. Her minor Charon crest can boost the damage, but again really risky. Strangely she has a strength in authority, but out side of getting good magical battalions quickly, she doesn’t get any support skills from it, which is fine.

Her spell list is excellent. She has Warp for support, effective damage in Seraphim and Dark Spikes, and strong spells like Luna and Hades. Her personal battalion gives +8 Magic, which is great for her to hit harder, or to allow another mage to be better. She has the major Gloucester crest, so she will quite often gain a +5 to her magical damage.

For classes she wants either Gremory or Dark Knight. In lower difficulties she hits hard enough or is fast enough to one round a lot of enemies, but in Maddening she probably just misses out on getting kills that aren’t from Dark Spikes’ effective damage. Defiant Magic from Gremory is pretty decent at her to help her one shotting potential in a this case. She makes excellent use of Thysus/ Caduceus Staff because of her low bulk, she can chip enemies safely. She can be decent in the DLC Valkyrie and Dark Flier, however the big issue with Dark Flier is that it doesn’t have Dark Tome faire for her to make use of. 

My Rating: 8/10. She falls off with her damage in Maddening, otherwise I’d give her a 9, but she’s an offensive mage that is paramount at her role.

Edited by LoneStar

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She would be more like an adult if she didn’t attack anyone who she perceived as insulting her. Seriously, chill out!

     Skill Levels:      Boons: Reason (D), Faith (E+), Authority (E+). Budding Talent in Swords. Banes: Sword, Lance, Axe, Armor. Her Boons suites her growths very well.

     Abilities:     Mastermind will cause her to swiftly gain Skill Ranks, assuming you do some Auxiliary Battles. Battalion Desperation isn’t exactly useful, but it may come in handy against slow enemies like Armors (but why would she be taking damage from those?)

     Arts:     Like several other mages, she only gets 1 Art, and that comes from her Talent. Soulblade is good for Nukes, but here’s the thing: Soulblade scales off Resistance. Lysithea has bad Res. She would’ve been better served with Hexblade, but it’s still decent.

     Spells:     Talk about a loaded list! Lysithea has quite a bit of utility and Nuking potential. Miasma (at D Reason) and Hades (A) are her standard damage dealers. Swarm (D+) is to help doubling/avoiding doubling and Luna (C) is for dealing with Res tanks. And we all know what Dark Spikes (B) is for! As for her Faith list, Heal, Nosferatu, Seraphim (C), Warp (B), and Abraxas (A). Warp is the highlight here. But 1 use? Worth it, I guess.

     Stats:     With 11+60% Magic, 7+60% Dexterity, and 7+50% Speed, Lysithea is world renowned for the annihilation she brings. A little overrated, but that’s how memes work. In reality, Lysithea is the very thesis of a Glass Canon. Huge Offense, no Defense. Case in Point, 22+20% HP and 3+10(!)% Defense.

     Classes:     Beginner- Monk

Intermediate- Mage for Death Blow

Advanced- Bishop for Faith boost or Valkyrie (If you have the DLC) for Dark Magic Range +1 and the mount

Master- Gremory for double Magic uses or Dark Knight for Dark Tomefaire and the mount

          The Verdict

The logical extreme of the generic Three Houses Mage, Lysithea will either destroy or be destroyed. Use her well and she is well worth an 8.5/10. She’s very solid. I can understand why she’s so hyped up, but she isn’t the best.

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9.5/10, Lysithea is the glass cannon mage, and those are always OP.

...no that’s really it, do I even need to explain Lysithea? I mean she can OHKO the death knight in his first appearance if want a dark seal for whatever reason... alright fine I’ll do it.

Lysithea has 60% growths in magic and dexterity as well as 50% in speed, with a 20% in HP, a 25% in resistance, and a 10% in defense. Glass cannon mage. Her personal ability, mastermind, doubles all skill experience and class experience in battle, allowing her to quickly unlock higher damaging spells and warp, which she already learns at B RANK with her already present boon in faith, and class mastery abilities, such as fiendish blow. Instead of black magic she learns the higher damaging yet heavier dark magic spells, helping her attain full nuke potential, even if her strength growth isn’t the greatest to put up with that weight, her speed is good enough for that to not really matter. Because of this she doesn’t really benefit from Warlock at advanced tier, since it only helps black magic users, but if you make her a bishop she can get boosts to her faith (warp) instead. Making her a gremory can capitalize on both dark and faith magic at master tier though, imo. She is only held back by typical magic unit stuff, i.e. low movement, barely being able to do anything in the early game due to low tome uses per battle, and dying in one hit. But for being a nuke, and a meme, she gets 9.5/10.

And no, I didn’t forget that she’s good with Thyrsus. But every magic unit is so that doesn’t change anyone’s score.

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Lysithea's an interesting unit. Despite being a big fan of the character I often find her performance a bit overrated, either due to Death Knight memes or people giving her Thyrsus and miscrediting the immense power of that accessory to her. She's still good, though.

The good: Lysithea is noted for her superior killing power over other mages. 11+60% growth magic is the best in the game (comparable to Hubert), but what really sets her apart is her spells. Dark Spikes has 13 might at B, well ahead of the 7-9 most other units have at that point (with a further +26 against hapless cavalry, which she can OHKO for most of the game). Hades, at A, has 18 might which is the strongest of any spell. And yet against the toughest targets, it will be Luna, which essentially has might equal to the target's Res, which will be even stronger still. Nobody else has that selection, so Lysithea ends up ahead of other PCs for magic damage for a large part of the game, and is particularly far ahead late.

On the faith side, she has Warp. While I'm not as enamoured with this as some, it's still a very nice repositioning tool at worst, and a shortcut to quickly winning a battle at best. She's by far the best Warper in the game, getting it at B while others wait for A, and having a much higher magic stat (Linhardt, the next closest, will typically have 1-2 less squares of range) than her competition.

Finally, she has boons in reason, faith, and authority, which is pretty much the best a mage could hope for. And her Mastermind ability further speeds her acquisition of skills, and more importantly classes. She'll get Fiendish Blow 25 actions before other mages, for instance, amplifying her power lead further. And she can afford to dip for esoteric class masteries like Hit+20% or Darting Blow much more easily than her competition.

The less good: Lysithea deals high damage and has Warp, but doesn't do much else. She has no 3-range spells, and no healing spells beyond Heal (not even Recover!). This makes her feel a bit one-dimensional, compared to other mages who offer considerably more non-offensive utility and/or range.

Her stats, aside from her magic, are problematic. 3+10% def, 4+25% res, and 22+20% HP are awful even for a mage (the low res also weakens her Soublade). 4+15% luck is also game-worst, meaning that the enemies that don't one-round her are likely to have a critical rate against her. In other words, she's the single least durable character in the entire game. The one mercy on her durability is that class bases help her out a lot, especially at Advanced where all classes have at least 12 base def. 5+25% charm is also quite poor, which further limits her utility as she has more trouble landing offensive gambits.

Finally, without DLC, she has a bit of a problem at Advanced tier, where other mages benefit from Black Tomefaire and she can't. While it says something about her power that she's still the hardest-hitting mage even in this tier, the gap is quite small (just 1-3 points above Mercedes and Dorothea). That's a bit of a drag when power is her biggest pro. Fortunately, Dark Knight fixes this. (And with the DLC, Valkyrie gives her a valid dark-boosting option, albeit it's a range boost instead of a power boost.)

I value versatility in mages a lot, which makes me favour a couple other mages over Lysithea. But she's undoubtedly good at what she does. She's easy to compare to someone like Bernie, but Lysithea's offence is more impressive (due to not falling off a cliff past range 1), and she's certainly much easier to use. Lysithea gets a 7/10 (Maddening).

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9,5/10

Important unit, in all route because she is the only recruited characters to have dark spell. Dark Spike T is the powerful magic against the cavalier specifically Cavalier, Paladin, Dark Knight, Holy Knight, Great Knight, Bow Knight and Death Knight. In Silver Snow she is perfect replacement for Hubert and Dorothea. The wrap is very insane for Lysithea because she have a highest magic in all characters. In Azure Moon, Lysithea is a key unit for Blue Lion and make the team balanced, if Lysithea wrap a strong frontliner unit this is a victory map. On Verdant Wind, this is the best Lysithea for many reason, we can access Lorenz paralogue to get her key relic (+2 range and halfed damage she get) and you can increase her Faith quickly to directly access Gremory in her level 30. For a recruitment it's suggest between chapter 3 and 5 due she have heal, increase faster her charm and increase a little a Faith to access directly gremory. For a other class, Dark Knight, Dark Filer and Valkyrie is recommended for her dark spell. Mastermind is important too increase her reason and faith in battle.

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DAMMIT I MISSED THE POST I HAD TO PUT UP BECAUSE OF A POWER CUT-

Regardless, it's time for a prodigy plenty find annoying.

Lysithea finds another meme where she nukes DK:

Spoiler

Lysithea has one of the lowest growth totals in the game. 4+15% Str and Luk is awful, making her more likely to be crit and on paper condemning .her physical stats but Benice has to remind us that it's not impossible. 22+20% HP, 3+10% Def and 4+25% Res are pretty dang bad bulk stats, so I doubt she'd go far tanking. 5+25% Cha is also bad, but I seem to still get decent accuracy from her regardless. Now, the reason she has such bad other growths. 11+60% Mag, 7+60% Dex and 7+50% Spd is a great statline in and of itself and helps make up for everything else.

Lysithea has some extremes: Strengths in Reason, Faith and Authority are very nice, but Weaknesses in Swords, Lances, Axes and Armour are not so good, especially Lances and Axes for class access reasons. She can benefit from a horse while she's on it a lot more, for rank but she'd have to get the ranks to reclass first and lances and axes being locked to her is no good. However, Swords are a budding talent. It gives her Soulblade, which I will argue is very nice and is enough for her to be able to fight outside of magic classes if you're just looking for mastery, especially when with the right weapons she'll 1-shot armours with it. Blutgang also works, but my preference is Levin swords for that 1-3 range forged.

Her magic list is one of the best without Physic imo. Reason gives her Miasma, Swarm, Luna, Dark Spikes and Hades. Her biggest negative imo is a lack of 3 range but she gets a great list anyway; Miasma's fine to start with and is stronger than fire, Swarm is lighter and reduces foe's Spd, Luna's great because of being able to ignore Res, Dark Spikes is powerful on its own and of course has horse effectiveness, making it easier to take out stubborn horses (especially DK) and Hades is just sheer power at 18 might. Faith gives her H +N, Seraphim, Warp and Abraxas. Seraphim is situational but breaking a monser's defence from range is nice, Warp is of course Warp and Abraxas is actually very solid as well, while having 14 might isn't amazing it is good with 90 hit.

Her personal skill is Mastermind, which raises skill exp in battle. This is legit good, helping her overcome banes and making focusing on her boons stupidly good, which is why getting Dark spikes and Warp is as easy as it is. She's also one of the only units who has two crests. A minor Charon crest gives her a 40% chance to raise might by 5 when using combat arts (which is very limited, but not impossible to get) while a Major Glocester crest also gives her a 20% chance of raising might by 5 when using magic (Also limited but it can be nice when it makes the difference and it is something you can expect her to do)

She gets one Authority ability, Battalion Desperation, which could have legs on hard.

She gets the most benefit out of using Thyrsus because she gets a chance to halve damage, which is very nice when it occurs and she gets a better chance because she has a major crest. Has anyone confirmed the percentages, I seemed a bit lucky with it.

How did I find her?

Spoiler

Warning: boring ass Gremory builds abound.

In VW, I got to see a speedy Lysithea at work. Despite hitting only 39 Mag, 40 Spd was very good even for endgame foes, ensuring that it never became much of an issue for doubling, while 38 Dex was good too, but her defences were as low as you'd expect. She went through the basic Noble > Monk > Mage/Priest > Warlock > Gremory, while getting A+ Reason/Faith/Authority and B Swords because I was that kind of dumb.

In CF, I didn't recruit in Part 1. As a result she only had B+ Reason and Authority and B Faith by the end and barely got Gremory before the endgame. Getting 25 Spd was also disappointing, though with 40 Mag she could still do the damage and I bet was blessed in it. She was also not as good defensively, but that should surprise nobody.

In AM, she died at Gronder. What, you expected me to recruit her on every route? 😛

In SS, I recruited her mainly because I needed her for Ferdinand's paralogue. 45 Mag was very nice, alongside 36 Dex/Spd made her a reliable option for magical combat. 28 Res was pretty decent actually, alongside 40 HP she could tank mages a bit. Her other stats are about as you'd expect and seeing as she was recruited later on she only had Noble > Monk > Mage > Warlock > Gremory. A+ Authority and Reason was about as good as she got skill wise.

As for Maddening, I stand by using her from beginning to end. She hit 43 MAg sadly (SS Lysithea would have been even better. I got pretty Spd screwed in the mid game, only getting 31 Spd in the end, but thankfully she was still a very strong mage. 39 Dex is about what you'd expect, which alongside a high Str of 17 meant she took even less loss of weight for the finale because of a +3 boost. Her HP was also not so hot at 36. As for mastery, she did the usual (Also getting Bishop), but also took diversions in Myrmidon and Archer particularly for Hit +20 which was very helpful. Getting S+ reason finally happened with her, alongside A+ Faith, S Authority and C Swords (Alongside D bows for archer). My point is that she was an asset even while being stat screwed. It might have explained why I was unfortunate enough to never 1-shot DK in maddening (She might have in Chapter 12, though I'm not so sure), though I wasn't as far off as you'd think and with some more concentration I think she'd have done so.

Overall, she has Warp and powerful magic, with the stats to back those up, enough for me to rate her a solid 8/10. I could see the case for a dancer, but I tend to have her fight often enough that I'd rather not and no 3/3-10 range also hurts. I also can't rate her higher because I can see her getting screwed does mess with her for certain units.

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I judged Lysithea based on VW Maddening:

Pros:

- Faith boon + B Warp + Mastermind means you can start cheesing as early as chapter 5, she's basically essential if you want to do any kind of LTC strats because of her incredibly early access to this OP spell.

- Her having good Mag base with 60% growth and a spell list full of very strong nuke spells like Luna, Hades and Dark Spikes means she can put out serious damage mid-late game when trained.

- Mastermind allows her to level up ranks and master class skills faster than other units.

- Lysithea also has an Authority Boon on top of her personal, allowing her to gain access to high rank Battalions early.

Cons:

- Combat is overrated, she lacks 3+ range spells, early game she is pretty meh and her spells are inaccurate.

- Does not offer any utilities aside from Warp.

- Dies to anything that manages to touch her.

Overall I give Lysithea a 8/10 + 0.5 bias = 8.5/10.

Edited by Ari Chan

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5.5/10 (would've been a 6.5/10, but she gets -1 bias for being THE poster girl for the word "overrated"). Her start is not that impressive owing to the typical mage problems, and the fact that she uses dark magic doesn't help owing to dark magic being inaccurate (her most accurate spells only have 80 base hit, which is not exactly ideal earlygame-wise). Nor does it that until Dark Spikes, her spells only have 5 might at most. Making matters worse is that other mages actually benefit from Warlock's Black Tomefaire, which further cuts into her magic lead, and she can't hope to compensate outside of going Dark Knight, which is honestly an underwhelming class that requires too much work to access for too little reward. On the statistical end, she's rather squishy, even by mage standards, as most other mages have decent resistance, but she doesn't (this, incidentally, blunts Soulblade), and her poor charm means that she has issues hitting offensive gambits, and is liable to get smacked by one herself. While she does have the crest to get halved damage when using Thyrsus, one, anyone can use it (and anyone with a crest doesn't take damage), and two, her durability is so bad that even half damage attacks still leave a mark on her (putting aside that Pavise and Aegis aren't exactly reliable in the first place). Regarding the Death Knight, by the time I'm actually expected to deal with him, I am pretty much guaranteed to have other means of doing so.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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It falls to Warp on Maddening for me, and I have very mixed feelings. Warp at B, with Mastermind she gets it fairly early, and usable which is great. I like it for a handful of maps (Felix’s paralogue come to mind) for convenience but it’s not something essential for every single map. Late game thanks to her good magic growth it has a huge range, again very nice, but I don’t find myself using it as much as I think I would. So she gets carried around a lot for “just in case“ moments.

Thrysus can also be given to anyone. It gives the false impression she always has crazy range, because she generally gets given it by default thanks to her major crest.. 

If I’m not taking Warp or Thrysus into consideration, I’m not the biggest fan of her Spell List. It’s centred around damage. On Maddening she’s not the nuke that she’s notorious for, not fast enough to double late game.

I think she’s like a 8/10 for when the Warp utility is beneficial, but -1 for times when I never use it and she’s just there making big chips. So 7/10 

 

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Lysithea, considered on VW Maddening.

The Bad

Looking at her stat distribution, we have, once again, a unit of extremes. At 4+0.15x, her Strength is abjectly terrible, rendering physical builds untenable. And it means she loses AS all the time - her lightest spell, Swarm, has a weight of 4, demanding 20 (!) Strength to offset. Her physical bulk is probably the poorest in the game, with an HP of 22+0.20x and Defense of 3+0.10x. So she'll die to a stray arrow. And if you expect this mage to survive a stiff breeze, her miserable Resistance (4+0.25x) should make you think twice. Her low Luck (4+0.15x) undermines her hit rate with spells, while her Charm (5+0.30x) is just barely average.

Now, let's talk proficiencies. She's weak in Axes and Armor, so if you think "Armor Knight certification" to fix her bulk, and "Weight-3" to overcome her low Strength, think again. She's weak in Lances, too - that's right, both of the primary weapon types of flying classes. It also makes going Pegasus Knight (for Darting Blow) a little tougher, and Dark/Holy Knight take a smidge more effort. She starts weak in Swords, too, though this can be mended through her budding talent. And outside of this talent, she gets no restricted combat arts. She also suffers from the "earlygame mage" dilemma, admittedly to a lesser degree than others. Finally, while her spell lists are great on both sides, each is missing something - no ranged healing, and no 3+ range offense.

The Good

You may be wondering, does Lysithea have any good stats? The answer is a resounding "yes". Her Magic, at 11+0.60x, is among the highest in the game, letting her deal immense damage with spells. Plus, it makes her support magic more effective. Her Dexterity, at 7+0.60x,can also reach great heights, aiding her hit and crit rates. And a Speed stat of 7+0.50x is solid, so even after the weight penalty, there's a decent number of enemies she can double.

With how bad she is in physical areas, you'd expect corresponding boons in the magical areas, yes? You'd be right - she's strong in both Reason (D) and Faith (E+), letting her achieve new spells with ease. And her Authority (E+) boon means quicker access to high-rank batallions, boosting her magical offense further. Plus, her personal ability, Mastermind, is like an innate Knowledge Gem. Anything she's using in battle will grow quickly for her - including classes. Mage mastery comes easily to her, and she has an easy road to Gremory - although, Dark and Holy Knight are both considerable for her.

Speaking of spells, she gets a lot of good ones. And they come early - by C/C in both magic types, she has an unheard-of five offensive spells. Notably, she gets two effective spells - Dark Spikes (B-Reason) to take out cavalry (Death Knight literally shaking rn), and Seraphim (C-Faith) to deal with monsters. Luna (C-Reason) gives her a way to break through higher-Res enemies, and Swarm (D+-Reason) debuffs opponent's Speed. Abraxas and Hades, too, are each high-powered magical nukes. Finally, she only gets one noteworthy support spell, but it's a keeper - Warp. This provides excellent support, and with a Dancer and Stride, can be integral to 1-turning certain maps. And she gets it at B-Faith (thanks, Abraxas), which is earlier than any other Warper. And while it's not a spell, she can unlock Soulblade, a 1-range nuke, through her Budding Talent. This can make Swordfaire builds, in classes like Assassin or Mortal Savant, considerable for her.

Another thing to talk about - her Crests. Lysithea may despise them, but they're among her biggest assets in battle. Her major Gloucester offers her a 20% chance at a 5-damage boost with spells, while minor Charon has a 40% chance of doing the same with combat arts (read - Soulblade). The first also means she gets Pavise and Aegis with Thyrsus equipped - it's great on her, as she appreciates the magic range, but let's not pretend like it's her personal staff. She can also use Foudroyant Strike off Thunderbrand, but as it works off her Strength stat, this is sub-optimal.

The Verdict

Lysithea is a formidable fusion of the worst physical combatant in the game, with the worst overall bulk in the game. But don't let that get you down - her magical potential is among the loftiest in the game. She learns great offensive spells, plus valuable Warp support. And with boons on both sides of magic, plus Mastermind, she'll get there faster than most. Soulblade gives her a niche tool in swordie builds, while her Crests have a chance to boost her already-impressive offense. You'll want to keep her out of enemy range, but do so, and Lysithea will serve you well. All things considered, I think a out of 10 is proper.

EDIT: By the way, this should be labeled "Day 22", as Day 21 was yesterday (Ignatz). Make sure tomorrow is labeled as "Day 23", please.

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Day 22

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I have a run where I haven't even touched magic classes only physical classes for Lysethia on maddening and she is doing alot better than I thought she would.  One of my more consistent doublers and is able to one shot a lot of things with her sword combat arts.  Still doing the destroy the deathknight stuff and was able to one shot human form Miklan. Also been not as fragile as I thought she would be as a melee unit and is one of mvps of a mostly weird classes run.

As a mage I don't think I need to talk about how she has a ton of offensive abilties. Yes she can be viewed as one trick pony but she is so good at the one trick pony role I don't think it matters. I give her a 9.5 out of 10.

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Lysithea is the single best offensive mage in the game.  She has great stats, a great spell list, good bons, and the weaknesses she has are effectively irrelevant for the majority of builds that she would normally end up in.

The star reason that Lyisthea is the best mage in the game is centered around her spell list, which is the most diverse in the game.  While she doesn't have a three range spell or a siege magic spell, she gets a ton of diversity in her spell list.  Swarm provides some extra utility in decreasing enemy speed (sometimes useful for helping steals on Maddening), Luna to deal with mages and Pegasus Knights, Dark Spikes to deal with cavalry, Seraphim to deal with Demonic Beasts, and Hades as a top-end heavy hitter spell.  With this diversity, Lysithea will be able to take advantage of wide range of enemy weakness that most mages can't exploit.  Further,  her stat block is the ideal for a mage.  She has the highest magic growth in the game, along with a respectable speed stat which will allow her to get the occasional follow-up (albeit less common on Maddening).  This should combine for Lysithea to be the highest damage output mage on any team by a decent margin.

But there's even more!  We haven't even talked about Warp, which is the darling of speedrunners even if I don't value it as highly as most other players.  And Lysithea has two crests, and while the crest of Charon is not particularly useful, the crest of Gloucester is right in line with what Lysithea wants to be doing anyway.  It also synergizes with Thyrsus, but even before that Lysithea was the natural candidate to pick up that staff anyway.

The weaknesses of Lysithea is that she is a glass cannon.  She is abyssmal in HP, Strength, Luck, and Defense, while also being below average in Resistance.  The good news is that on Maddening, having your mages get into combat is recipe for a Divine Pulse regardless of their other stats, so you'll happily take the better offensive stats.

Lysithea is an easy 9.5/10 and a shoe in for one of the most powerful units in the game.

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Fire Emblem players pride themselves on their hottest takes, and my hottest take when this game was brand new was that Lysithea was neither high tier or low tier, but firmly in the middle. I still think I was right on the money. But it's just as much an assessment of Lysithea's performance as it is a question of "Is warp ever worth a deployment slot?". Lysithea on Maddening gets blown up by even the weakest of enemies, maybe even enemy mages since her Res is also surprisingly low, and their AS higher than hers would ever naturally be. The mage classline provides the least movement so opportunities to go in become even less frequent when she's warping better units into the fray. Early on she's also often the stride user since she can't yet equip a good batallion for its stats and her charm makes her a poor gambit user throughout the game. Then again, all of Golden Deer seems to be lacking in charm. Even Claude is points behind other house leaders.

Most Golden Deer units are low skill exp investment. Not Lysithea, she was built around grinding. Grinding for spells, class base stats, and better batallions. And the way you raise her up is more crucial then how you actually play her on the battlefield. Even an "optimized" Lysithea is saddled with the same weaknesses. At level 1, she's got just five Miasma charges, providing at maximum one level up per map if you nail those ~70 accuracy attempts every time. So grabbing heal is first priority. Reason at D+ for Swarm helps her ammunition issue as well so that she can occasionally chip kills rather than take them. And from there it's time to grab warp. Lysithea in VW has the fastest access to warp in the game even before you consider her personal skill. Some people say warp is never vital in Maddening mode, those people clearly have never played Felix's paralogue. A map that is impossible to beat any other way than a one turn clear because enemies target and kill Rodrigue on turn 1. But otherwise you're right, some maps are not conducive to warping, and even when they are, warp skipping a chapter will cause you to miss out on your only access to combat experience, and that hurts everybody on your roster. It's a more nuanced spell than something like Physic. Lysithea's access to Luna is pretty great for chunking the bulky late game units, and Dark Spikes is a serviceable nuke spell, due to its relatively high accuracy But more than any of her spells, I should imagine soulblade is her best "nuke spell" if it's anything like other magic combat arts. And more accurate too. I just don't know where is best in your playthrough you find three weeks of tutoring to nab it.

All in all, figuring out how to raise Lysithea is very tough since she needs so much on top of the constant babying, but these RTU threads don't sufficiently place a limit on how much you could grind her, so such discussion feels moot. Technically a wrath/defiant crit build is on the table, after all, and people have done exactly that in their own maddening runs. Even if I wasn't swinging broken weapons at enemy priests for 99 turns once a month, I'd still be planning out which physical classes I would pick up in the playthrough to mooch some free base stats. You can even set her as an adjutant to earn combat exp, skill exp and class masteries without her having to fight in something that would normally be suicide. Hell, if adjutants didn't exist in this game, that would be entire points off her rating. For most of pre-time skip you've got just one or less adjutant slots and that's typically reserved for students I'm trying to recruit, but even I would find time to grind things out on her in this route. I rate Lysithea a 5.0 out of 10. She will never stop needing to be coddled away from enemy ranges, her early map performance is Ignatz tier, and her strengths still lead to only the worst classlines in the game as far as combat and movement are concerned. But warp on its own can occasionally warrant its own deployment slot, and with skillful tutoring, she can overcome her garbage stats in time. And with how little her classmates need, you can absolutely spent tutor sessions on her every week even in the earliest chapters.

Edited by Glennstavos

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10/10. Best Player Phase unit in the game. Consistently kills, does so from a long range, ridiculously accurate, and gets the earliest and longest range warp, which is crucial for LTC. She's no good as an Enemy Phase unit, but that's simply not her job. Leave that to someone like War Master Byleth while Lysithea warps him around or takes care of the enemies with gambits.

EDIT: This is assuming Maddening. Hard is the same as Normal to me and frankly anyone can kill outside Maddening so Lysithea isn't quite as special there, though Warp is still nice.

Edited by Hazeel

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Some people say warp is never vital in Maddening mode, those people clearly have never played Felix's paralogue. A map that is impossible to beat any other way than a one turn clear because enemies target and kill Rodrigue on turn 1.

Imho it’s more about on if the player wants the Aegis shield. It’s ok to miss paralogues and compete the game. If doing it later, it’s possible with fliers and Stride to two turn it for all the rewards. It’s just so much easier with Warp.

Same with Lorenz’s paralogue. It’s doable by striding across the bridge or just normally, but like... Warp across the water is just too convenient xD. 

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I've never actually used Warp to beat Felix's paralogue, and I've beaten it around 6 times on Maddening. Not to say Warp isn't useful there, but there are many ways to get in there and take some pressure off Roderigue, especially if you do that paralogue in chapter 9 as I usually do (and therefore, you have access to Dancer) though I've done it in chapter 8 as well. I do favour higher mobility and higher range classes so that might be a factor.

Lorenz's paralogue is imo the best-designed pre-timeskip fight, skipping it with Warp just makes me sad.

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8/10 on Maddening.

I like Lysithea, a lot actually, and used her in my 4 Maddening (all routes).

Her best part for me is long warp range. I never skip chapters or paralogues, and don’t really view warp as a clutch option. With a good selection of team members it’s usually not hard to stay at very offensive outside first few chapters. But warp simply speeds up the progress as sending in a dodgetank (a potent one, not someone who can only injure enemies) is usually a very good strategy (just careful don’t trigger too much reinforcement prematurely).

Her combat is as people rightly covered, not as strong as it’s memed to be. Early game accuracy, no even intermediately strong spell (like sagittae or thoron) until getting DSpikes really hurts early game damage. Late game she’s basically a 90%HPbar-chip damage. Sure she gets DSpikes and Warp both at B, but: that’s usually when difficulty starts to fall off. Even for Ch4 DK I never felt DSpikes was necessary but only good to have (e.g. Bernie/Dedue vengeance can kill DK far more reliably especially with that poison strike archer to help setting them up). In comparison, Constance has similar MAG, early sagittae, and late game Bolting for what I call “utility damage”.

As a PP “nuke” she’s completely outclassed by those War Masters who can consistently quad middle speed units like Felix or MByleth (Lysithea doesn’t crit that much, so maybe 80 with effective damage? while those two I mentioned has consistent 200~400 damage output). Not to mention for “nuking” purposes the best nuke damage-wise is a good EP tank, like Dimitri or Petra with BW on: like 5 kills every turn that’s about 300 per turn at least, and not overkill damage (important!) So I still cannot fathom anyone who seriously played a lot of Maddening would still think Lysithea is a “nuke” (did they even try to beat the Wind Caller with mages?)

No, Lysithea is a utility mage, and a very good one too, and with good damage as a bonus. And IMO, early Warp is not that important unless LTC, rather it’s LONG RANGE warp that’s fun to have. Other things low maintenance/authority boon blahblah it’s good but not that decisive.

Finally, no, you don’t need to one turn Felix Paralogue even if you want Aegis shield. A bunch of highly rated physical units with a few mages can get the job done fairly easily. In a clutch, gambit enemies with Byleth or lord, or use impregnable wall on the lame old man or villagers.

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3 hours ago, RaIsMyPet said:

As a PP “nuke” she’s completely outclassed by those War Masters who can consistently quad middle speed units like Felix or MByleth (Lysithea doesn’t crit that much, so maybe 80 with effective damage? while those two I mentioned has consistent 200~400 damage output). Not to mention for “nuking” purposes the best nuke damage-wise is a good EP tank, like Dimitri or Petra with BW on: like 5 kills every turn that’s about 300 per turn at least, and not overkill damage (important!) So I still cannot fathom anyone who seriously played a lot of Maddening would still think Lysithea is a “nuke” (did they even try to beat the Wind Caller with mages?)

The problem with Felix is I can't always send him in. If there's too many enemies, he'll die whereas Lysithea can attack from a range, kill pretty much anything that isn't an end-game brawler/monster, and then canto away.  And the problem with PP Wyvern Lords is that they are much less likely to kill with a bow and with an axe, they only have a 5 space safety range. 6 if you give them Galewind Shoes or some other means to boost their MV by two. Meanwhile Lysithea has a 9-10 space safety range with no hit penalty based on range.

Of course, this isn't exclusive to Lysithea since you can give other mages Thrysus and a mounted class, though the others won't get the additional safety net against STRs from Thyrsus and either have a worse magic growth, spell list, or both. Male mages also miss out on the DLC classes entirely.

Obviously EP units are going to kill more because that's their job. But they all have some limitations (especially Dimitri) and need support from PP units to deal with these. Common among all of them are enemies with gambits. And when it comes to LTC, which is the only performance measure the game offers, PP units are generally more crucial since most maps end once you kill the commander(s). Even with "rout the enemy" maps, Warp is still very useful for placing your EP units to kill as quickly as possible.

Edited by Hazeel

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There's also almost no point to 200~400 damage, it comes up against some bulky monster bosses and that's it, and it's true, Lysithea doesn't shine against them. (Although she shines a lot against the final boss of her own route!) You only need to do damage equal to the target's max HP, and Lysithea is actually quite good at doing this, only falling short of regular OHKOs near the end of the game. And if she's OHKOing, the fact that she can do it at range [a lot] with some combination of Caduceus, Thyrsus, Valkyrie (DLC so not relevant here, I know) or Reason S means she's more effective than units who need to close to melee to accomplish the same thing, especially ones without canto.

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2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

There's also almost no point to 200~400 damage, it comes up against some bulky monster bosses and that's it, and it's true, Lysithea doesn't shine against them.

Even then, opening the fight with sepharim or swarm is still useful IMO.

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