Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 25: Byleth

[Hazeel]

2 hours ago, Anathaco said:

Characters can give resources from their paralogues though- I always go out of my way to recruit Marianne for the battalion from her paralogue, for example. Lorenz is a common recruit since Thyrsus access, Felix's Aegis Shield is nice, etc etc.

In terms of the actual discussion I think needing faculty training is a flaw with Byleth's skill levels, at least until the end of part 1. Byleth needs to spend a few points on faculty training each week to exceed the amount of XP his students get (from what i remember at least, this could be wrong), and that won't consistently happen for a while, since I think most people prioritise other activities like meals, tea time and the sauna if you have DLC. By the time you get to the stage where you can consistently faculty train, your students are ahead in skill xp and you need to work quite a bit to catch up.

1) Besides Lorenz (mainly due to Lysithea) who has paralogues worth recruiting for in and of themselves if we're looking at this through an optimal lens?

Ferdinand/Lysithea: OK battalions that come very late and you will have superior alternatives to.

Linhardt/Leonie: It's basically a Brave Bow that's harder to fix. Again battalions that come very late and are outclassed.

Caspar/Mercedes: Lol.

Bernadetta and Petra: I'll admit, Petra's battalion is good--but only slightly better than Jeralt's mercenaries and it comes really late.

Dorothea: Lol.

Felix: He's the only one the Aegis Shield is good for. If you're recruiting Felix, it's for Felix.

Sylvain: Lance of Ruin is OK, but not worth recruiting for.

Ashe Definitely worth it...except you could just recruit Catherine for free. Still, fair paralogue recruit for CF.

Annette: N/A

Ingrid: Same as Sylvain.

Raphael/Ignatz lol

Marianne: Near useless relic and outclassed battalion that comes really late.

Hilda: Better than Sylvain and Ingrid, but really questionable recruiting just for her relic.

2) Maybe early on that might be a bit of an issue, but by Chapter 5 you can just get gifts. And it doesn't take many activity points to feed your students to begin with. Had no trouble training my students whatsoever.

[Anathaco]

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Sylvain: Lance of Ruin is OK, but not worth recruiting for.

The paralogue also has some nice rewards like a couple statboosters, and Sylvain's battalion is pretty good too. 20 avoid + Stride is worth having IMO

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Felix: He's the only one the Aegis Shield is good for. If you're recruiting Felix, it's for Felix.

Aegis Shield is pretty decent in my experience, even on non-Felix units. Even without the Pav/Aegis effect its still the highest protection of any shield barring the Ochain shield, which, granted, is better overall but comes way later. The battalion is also worth noting for its 20 crit.

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Ingrid: Same as Sylvain.

It might be worth mentioning this one for the flying battalion it gives, but idk. I did recruit her just for that, because its used in the SS skip strategy for hunting by daybreak

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Raphael/Ignatz lol

The Leicester mercs are actually alright, not the greatest but its a decent spare battalion to have. Ignatz' battalion also offers some nice buffs for a C rank battalion (thanks LoneRecon).

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Marianne: Near useless relic and outclassed battalion that comes really late.

The relic is true, but the battalion is really nice to have IMO. 40 hit is the highest hit boost of any battalion in the game, and it comes on a battalion that is balanced for both physical and magical units, so you can use it on both. This may be a personal preference though, seeing as how I like using powerful but inaccurate units a fair bit. It does come late, but I think it more than pulls its weight for the time it has.

 

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

Hilda: Better than Sylvain and Ingrid, but really questionable recruiting just for her relic.

Goneril Valkyries are pretty neat though, giving high physical attack, with a decent hit/crit boost

 

IDK if its just me, but I like having a lot of good battalions on hand so I often go for those. Oftentimes I judge the worth of a paralogue on the battalions it gives, honestly moreso than the relics.

2 hours ago, Hazeel said:

2) Maybe early on that might be a bit of an issue, but by Chapter 5 you can just get gifts. And it doesn't take many activity points to feed your students to begin with. Had no trouble training my students whatsoever.

That's true, but its not like gifts are the perfect substitute either- you don't get professor XP (which I noticed you seemed to be behind on). And even then its still a few chapters where your students are getting way more training than Byleth. I suppose it comes down to a difference of playstyle though, I prioritise professor XP to max it ASAP and my Byleth is way behind on skills, despite me actually training a bit to get some skill ranks for recruitments.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Anathaco

[Dark Holy Elf]

Definitely agree that Byleth's faculty training method is a weakness. Even in the screenshot posted... first of all, that's Chapter 10, and Byleth's training problems are primarily earlier. Second of all, it's not that impressive for that point? Authority's not even at B yet? I've definitely had students with multiple A's by that point, especially if they're both in boons.

 

Anyway, now that I'm no longer being driven to distraction by current events, here is my actual Byleth writeup, rather than the stub I posted earlier.

IF THIS IS STILL BEING COUNTED, PLEASE DO NOT COUNT THIS AGAIN, I ALREADY POSTED EARLIER.

Byleth is good, but not as good as the lords.

The good: Byleth gains exp at an enhanced rate, so their stats are better than they look on paper, like the other lords. Even past that, 13+45% str is great, and with a +2 from his/her personal post-timeskip, the stat ends up behind only Edelgard and Dimitri. The charm is also great; while 7+45% is only above average on paper, it ends up really high in practice due to tea times (though the start isn't special). The rest of the stats have no standouts, but nothing bad either. Of most note, 8+45% speed is respectable, comparable to Hilda or Ignatz once you account for the level boost (though that's a range that definitely wants Darting Blow to secure doubles, giving FByleth a notable advantage).

The Sword of the Creator is decent, if not the game-changer the plot suggests it should be. The base weapon is a slightly modified Iron Bow+ until it upgrades (at which point it becomes a slightly better Silver Bow+), but can't benefit from Bow Range+ or Curved Shot. The best thing about it is its combat art, which lets Byleth deal solid damage at range 2 (25+Mag*0.3 after chapter 10), but it's not actually THAT much stronger than, say, Heavy Draw, and is comparable to Fallen Star but with less range and without the cool effect. Being a sword also kinda sucks with how underwhelming sword classes are in this game (outside of Sword Avoid, which Byleth can't get).

Authority boon is always nice, and the combination of that and high charm allows Byleth to wield any battalion/gambit you want with ease. Byleth also supports everyone in the game (except Anna), which means more opportunities for linked attacks.

The less good: The talent list is underwhelming: swords are the least useful weapon class in the game, faith is mostly wasted given Byleth's terrible faith list and physical focus, brawling's pretty niche as well (and nearly useless for FByleth without DLC). Overall, it's a talent list that does not help Byleth get into the best physical builds in the game, which involve flight or bow use. Ruptured/Sublime Heaven is nice but not as decisive as some other combat arts, and the only other noteworthy one on Byleth's unique list is Windsweep, a handy tool for bosses but requires heavy investments in swords (A).

Also, Byleth's method of training is a major problem. Every other character has two avenues of skill exp that Byleth does not: passive instruction and active tutoring. The former is worth 40 weapon exp (for neutral) per week, the latter a number which can vary anywhere from 16-80 depending on RNG luck, statue bonuses, and professor expertise (even higher with sauna DLC). Even assuming towards the low end of that, Byleth needs 3 to 4 faculty training sessions a week to keep up, and this isn't remotely practical early in the game, where doing so adversely affects professor rank, motivation, support building, and recruitment. To make matters worse it's not even possible in chapter 2, so other in-house characters get a significant head start on skills (I've mentioned before you can give Tempest Lance to any character without a lance bane by the chapter 2 battle. Byleth is the exception). Later in the game, doing 3-4 (or even more) faculty trains a week becomes practical, so Byleth does eventually catch up, although certain areas such as Riding and Flying A+ may be difficult to reach due to a lack of instructors, unless someone else on your team gets there first to help out. But it's definitely a major depressing effect on skills you might want to grab early in the game, like Close Counter or Weight-3.

Other: Byleth's a very easy comparison to Edelgard, since they have nearly identical bases. And Edelgard ties or wins almost every facet of the comparison: bases (similar, but +3 charm and some HP beats out some dex/luck/res, the three worst stats), growths (+10% str > +5% spd), talent list (axes + armour is much better than brawling), and relic (you get it later, but Raging Storm is a game-changer). And that's before considering her head start on skills. (She also misses chapter 6 and 11, but gains 2 levels from the timeskip.) Byleth's comparisons to the other lords are less obvious, but I feel the other lords come out ahead too.

Overall, Byleth is actually pretty easy to rank. The clearly superior stats to the non-lords cause me to rate Byleth above them, but the lords all roughly match Byleth's stats while having better unique tricks of their own, and without the training flaw. As such, Byleth ends up in between them, at 8.5/10 (Maddening). [do not count this again, I already rated on the previous page]

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

Linhardt/Leonie: It's basically a Brave Bow that's harder to fix. Again battalions that come very late and are outclassed.

A free Brave Bow+ is really good, though. Mythril is scarce, sure, but so is Wootz Steel. Plus, you get a Spirit Dust and XL Bullion.

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

Ferdinand/Lysithea: OK battalions that come very late and you will have superior alternatives to.

Ochain Shield is a pretty good one for defense tanking builds, given the healing effect. You can also get a Secret Book and Talisman.

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

Sylvain: Lance of Ruin is OK, but not worth recruiting for.

As others mentioned, the thieves all have good drops, including a Speedwing. And you can get an XL bullion. Gautier Knights is really good, too - you like Stride? Have some good stats with it! Sylvain is absolutely worth the effort of being female for.

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

Ingrid: Same as Sylvain.

Luin has 17 Mt, 90 Hit, and 10 Crit for any lance rank, at only 9 Wt. Which part of this is not worth recruiting her for? Also you can get a healing staff. And Galatea Pegasi are nice.

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

Marianne: Near useless relic and outclassed battalion that comes really late.

Blutgang is niche, it can be awesome on magic sword builds. Also there's a Giant Shell. And as a monster-heavy map, you can harvest ore here.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Hazeel said:

2) Maybe early on that might be a bit of an issue, but by Chapter 5 you can just get gifts. And it doesn't take many activity points to feed your students to begin with. Had no trouble training my students whatsoever.

It's not like gifts are THAT good an option for motivation, considering how limited they are...

[LoneRecon400]

58 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Ignatz' battalion is kinda bad tho, I agree with that.

How is Victor Private Militia bad? +6 Attack and +15 Hit are really great bonuses, espically since it's only C Ranked. That makes it ideal for units with an Authority Bane like Felix.

Add on to the fact the Ignatz only requires Authority to get makes it a very obtainable. I'd argue it's one of the best Paralogue battalions due to availablity.

[Anathaco]

Just now, LoneRecon400 said:

How is Victor Private Militia bad? +6 Attack and +15 Hit are really great bonuses, espically since it's only C Ranked. That makes it ideal for units with an Authority Bane like Felix.

Add on to the fact the Ignatz only requires Authority to get makes it a very obtainable. I'd argue it's one of the best Paralogue battalions due to availablity.

Ok ngl i didn't realise it was C rank I just looked at the stats lol. Fair enough, I'll amend that.

[DriftingWaterBottle]

5 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Wrong they do have value even if it is not always tangeble. For one thing there alot of exclusive items/paralouge missions that you can't get otherwise relics, battalions some really op like for an example Dorthea's parlouge in non-crimison flower gets you a dancing battalion that can't be gotten elsewhere.  Pretty much every recuritable student has a paralouge with them in it.   Then there is the more challenge aspect it provides as it most certainly is more difficult to do a run where you recruit everyone over a run where you don't. Is it a huge one no not really but all that matters is it a difficulty increase and some people are looking for all the difficulty they can get. And lastly there is the emotional aspect some people don't want to fight against anyone that is recruitable to there side. It may not a gameplay stat but there is value in that as well.

I think Dorothea only gives a Goddess ring with her paralogue (not counting rewards associated with Ingrid)? The opera dancing battalion is given by Dorothea or Manuela when either one of them gets near the opera house on the Enbarr map and triggers the special dialogue, if I'm not mistaken. (I agree with the larger point that paralogues provide valuable resources.)

[Barren]

1 hour ago, DriftingWaterBottle said:

I think Dorothea only gives a Goddess ring with her paralogue (not counting rewards associated with Ingrid)? The opera dancing battalion is given by Dorothea or Manuela when either one of them gets near the opera house on the Enbarr map and triggers the special dialogue, if I'm not mistaken. (I agree with the larger point that paralogues provide valuable resources.)

Yes that is correct. The goddess ring is basically a better prayer ring since it adds luck but that's really about it along with the residual healing. Dorothea has to be in your party though. And yes, you do get the battalion that uses Dance of the Goddess. An AoE refresh is always nice. But it's not available on Crimson Flower. It's better available on the other three routes, but on Azure Moon you get it on the second to last map in the game

Edited November 5, 2020 by Barren