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Special Heroes: In the Moment

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17 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

...hey wait a...

Why do these weapons have 1 more Might than the regular Brave weapons despite otherwise being absolutely and completely better in every way?

Power creep, my dude. The answer is always power creep and it always has been, I say as that astronaut from that meme picture is pointing a gun at my head.

Edited by Tybrosion

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6 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yes, they are better than regular Brave Weapons in every way. The bulk reduction is a nice bonus too to make getting into Desperation range easier.

I mean, even units who received a Brave weapon to start with (that isn't a prf) would rather have these new weapons, and Brave weapons with extra Spd were always given less might to compensate, but here...

If they brought in a Ninja Bow, I'd have to summon it specifically to give it to Nina or Brave Claude.

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Well, Zihark's in the game...as a ninja. Didn't see that one coming. He's also the demote, which I was mildly surprised to see, but I guess it makes sense. Lyn has another alt, but it's been a while, so I think it's probably okay (even though she also has a summer alt, a bride alt, and a valentine's alt...yeah, maybe this would have been better for someone else...), and seeing her hanging out with her friend, Florina, is cool. Though, I'm a bit sad that this means we won't get a Florina/Lon'qu Harmonic Hero.

Also, kind of surprised that the closest we got to an actual ninja is Hana. This would've been such a nice way to introduce Shura. ūüė쬆Well, Hana's axes are beautiful and she's free. Likely, she's the only one I'll get from this. Free pull + TT+ and done.

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Don't really mind another Lyn alt, but I wish Florina was the main of the two.

 

Hana looks nice though, might be the rare unit I use grails for. ūüĎÄ (only used them for Itsuki before)

 

Otherwise probably skipping and saving orbs.

Edited by starpendle

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Regarding Leavateinn's art....there are good points and bad points. One of the more obvious bad points is that her artwork stands out too much. Generally, you can line all the heroes up nicely and it looks like they're attacking or standing or whatever together. Her art here is in just such a different style that it stands out and looks worse than it really is when put alongside the others. The hair on the whole, and the line weighting are good. The anatomy's not too bad overall, too (the foreshortening of her legs is actually pretty great.) HOWEVER her poses look REALLY uncomfortable and her outfit doesn't make any sense. It's like the white part was vacuum-sealed to her body and offers no support to her chest (fighting like that would be ow.)...but it randomly has a left sleeve, I guess? The gold part cuts awkwardly into her left breast, too. You can see the shine mark on the brown part of her outfit there. Again, looks painful (not to mention her back, how it's arcing strangely while she squats there somehow keeping her balance? Why is she puffing out her chest so much? So that you can see every crease in the front of her torso?)

 

In summary...

Pros: Line weighting, hair, the lower anatomy (hips/legs, except that the feet may be a bit too foreshortened? It seems like a wide lens is being used instead of a standard one.)

Cons: Poses, outfit design (I'm fitting the chest area thing here since it could totally be the fault of the outfit having no support. Also, who would want to put a logo (in this case, the Emblian emblem) there? Just uncomfortable...)

So, is her art bad? In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. But I'd pin this more on the designer than on the artist, in this case.

 

Granted, all this is without being able to get a really good look at the artwork yet. (Sharena hasn't talked about these new guys yet.)

Edit: Specification and typo correction.

Edited by Mercakete

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Oh I actually like the art style of Laevatain's art and would like to see more heroes with it tbh. It reminds me a bit of Kozaki's style for No More Heroes.

 

But not a fan of the outfit and well, everything else with it. Laevatain is also a completely random character to choose nowadays.

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Other superboons/ banes:

Spoiler

Zihark: Spd, Res. Bane in Def.

Navarre: Atk, Spd. Bane in HP.

Laevatein: Atk, Def. Bane in Spd.

Lyn: Atk, Res. Banes in Spd, HP.

Hana has a Res Superbane.

So yeah, it's crazy how optimized these Units are. Zihark being the 4* Focus is tempting too...

Edited by DefyingFates

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Goodness, 190 BST for Duo Lyn? That's amazing. She's definitely gonna be a project. I'm not gonna be able to +10 her right away, I'll have to wait for some reruns, but she's absolutely most certainly definitely a merge project now.

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Yeahhh I'm not feeling Laev; I sort of see the Hyung Tae Kim influence, and I liked the dude's style back in the day even if it was a bit fanservice-y, but the pose feels like it does the character a disservice.

Tangentially - I'm trying to figure out optimum builds for Zihark (and Navarre 'cause dang he's a fun one too) - and I can't figure out if the Ninja weapons can quad or not, if they can already x2?   So is it more guaranteed x2 attack stacked on top of them doubling or not?   Would it make more sense to go full 'attack stack' with Fury 4 or LoD / Desperation / etc with a +10 galeforce build to offset that shitty as hell attack or do something crazy like a Mareeta style tank?  

 

 

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37 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

Tangentially - I'm trying to figure out optimum builds for Zihark (and Navarre 'cause dang he's a fun one too) - and I can't figure out if the Ninja weapons can quad or not, if they can already x2?   So is it more guaranteed x2 attack stacked on top of them doubling or not?

Nowhere in their description say that In the Moment Weapons cannot make a follow-up attack. In the Moment Weapons should be able to attack four times just like regular Brave Weapons.

If you paid attention to the video, it even shows everyone except ITM!Laevatein making four attacks.

37 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

Would it make more sense to go full 'attack stack' with Fury 4 or LoD / Desperation / etc

If you want to focus on damage output with Brave Weapons, you want +Atk.

38 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

with a +10 galeforce build to offset that shitty as hell attack

If you are doing Galeforce, you do NOT want +Atk unless you are using Heavy Blade.

You want +Spd to ensure more consistent doubling and to avoid killing things in one hit.

The only reason to ever go +Atk is if the unit has no access to Flashing Blade and you want Heavy Blade trigger more reliably to activate Galeforce. ITM!Zihark is an infantry unit with access to Flashing Blade, so he has no need for +Atk nor Heavy Blade.

40 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

or do something crazy like a Mareeta style tank?

Brave Weapons and In the Moment Weapons are not good for enemy phase.

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Her art is not the best, but Laevatein still looks to be a pretty good unit. I will try for her... in the free summon circle only, since I have no orbs.

I may try for her in her rerun in the Double Special.

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

Nowhere in their description say that In the Moment Weapons cannot make a follow-up attack. In the Moment Weapons should be able to attack four times just like regular Brave Weapons. If you paid attention to the video, it even shows everyone except ITM!Laevatein making four attacks.

If you want to focus on damage output with Brave Weapons, you want +Atk.

If you are doing Galeforce, you do NOT want +Atk unless you are using Heavy Blade. You want +Spd to ensure more consistent doubling and to avoid killing things in one hit.

The only reason to ever go +Atk is if the unit has no access to Flashing Blade and you want Heavy Blade trigger more reliably to activate Galeforce. ITM!Zihark is an infantry unit with access to Flashing Blade, so he has no need for +Atk nor Heavy Blade. Brave Weapons and In the Moment Weapons are not good for enemy phase.

All good points!  Definitely my bad for missing the quadding in the video - I was getting most of my info through stills and screenshots. :v

Been thinking about it more plus what you said and I can definitely see the focus on speed over ATK (which suits his base stats better anyway.)  Playing with an idea of Galeforce + LoD (to at least boost both atk/speed; it's not like he's a pirate!Tibarn with an excess of attack) + Close Call (proc'ing off of the stacked speed - not even attempting to be an enemy phase build as much as being able to survive counters and offset the damage reduction from LoD and the Ninja weapon, plus the innate repel synergizing with galeforce) + Smoke Spd or Rein Def/Spd when I can grab one) + Flashing Blade seal to also ensure a galeforce for every quad.  In any case it'll be fun to experiment with.

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35 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

Close Call (proc'ing off of the stacked speed - not even attempting to be an enemy phase build as much as being able to survive counters and offset the damage reduction from LoD and the Ninja weapon, plus the innate repel synergizing with galeforce)

I personally favor Desperation so the nuke does not have to worry about any sustainability and can more easily enter Wings of Mercy range if they eat a counter attack. Close Call increases bulk too much, and after combat movement is niche since you do not always want it.

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On 11/4/2020 at 1:06 AM, Vicious Sal said:

I just realised I can give that Lyn my Pumpkin a box and disarm trap and have an even better Galeforce unit for AstraForce. With Velouria, Altina and Plumeria it’s a perfect match.

I heard someone else mention this and I have to ask: what makes this a good idea? Replacing a brave, slaying, +spd dagger with a fury dagger sounds completely baffling to me. I feel like I must be missing something.

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6 minutes ago, Florete said:

I heard someone else mention this and I have to ask: what makes this a good idea? Replacing a brave, slaying, +spd dagger with a fury dagger sounds completely baffling to me. I feel like I must be missing something.

Fury 7 allows for more a reliably way of entering Wings of Mercy range that is crucial for certain player phase team compositions, with Wings of Mercy Galeforce teams being the primary example.

With a Brave dagger, there is a far higher chance that you do not take any counter attack damage when killing something, which makes Wings of Mercy unable to trigger on allied Galeforcers.

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2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Fury 7 allows for more a reliably way of entering Wings of Mercy range that is crucial for certain player phase team compositions, with Wings of Mercy Galeforce teams being the primary example.

With a Brave dagger, there is a far higher chance that you do not take any counter attack damage when killing something, which makes Wings of Mercy unable to trigger on allied Galeforcers.

Okay, that makes sense. I never use WoM teams so I probably wouldn't have thought of that.

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Oh my gosh. Okay, now that I can look at Leavateinn's art more clearly (because Sharena talks about her now) it's...ridiculous. Just looking at her basic pose... Where do I start? I guess I'll start with her hair is attached to her sheath. Not just tied onto it, but like...threaded into the end of it. All someone has to do is whack her sheath (or that giant loop of a pigtail gets caught on something) and it'll yank at her hair, forcing her to jerk back. Not good for fighting. There's acceptable design stuff and then there is this. Da haq. Next, her pose is horrible. (I touched on this before.) For some reason, her left leg is pulled to the side, and both of her knees look broken. The anatomy below her upper thighs is just terrible, even though the hip/butt/upper thighs are on point. This might say something about the artist and where he puts his attention... That said, the anatomy of the torso and feet are also good, so there's that, I guess. Still, what the heck is with those broken knees? Which direction are her legs even supposed to be pointing? Her arms are super stiff-looking, too. And kind of small. The style is good, but this technical skill (anatomy of the limbs) needs some heavy refinement. Finally (for the standard pose) is another design choice: the footwear. Those ultra-tall geta do exist, but are reserved for oiran (who were a sort of celebrity) and they were very, very hard to walk in. It took a lot of practice and balance, and she always walked in a specific way, and, by the way, had a lot of people helping her. (For example, holding her parasol for her.) Like heck anyone's fighting in those. High heels (even stilettoes) I could maybe see. Not these.

I talked about her fighting and skill activation art too, a bit. But...those shoes again... Their teeth change angle between her attacking art (which shoes them being weirdly slanted) and her standard pose and damaged art (which show them going straight down.) Again, her left leg is at an odd angle going left (but her feet are right next to each other. ???) and it looks like her hips are at two angles at once...? (That, or she's um...not actually a she.) Also, why is she grabbing her sword by the blade? She would have had to pull it out by the hilt and then slide her hand down the blade for it to be in that position.

Finally, the damaged art. Not seeing too much here, except that the outfit seems to have changed a bit (not that it's damaged, but that the design itself changed a bit for some reason.) Is she wearing black shorts now? ...Except only over her butt and not on the side of her hip or anywhere else? The foot anatomy is very good here, though.

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Got Duo Lyn to +HP +1+4 so far. Already given her some expensive stuff since I do intend to use her in the long term though I'd have to wait until her reruns first.

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