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Dayni

Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 26: Seteth

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The real reason Byleth should have been first is to avoid the whiplash of going from worst character to possibly best character.

Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse.

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Dimtri: 9.14

Byleth: 9.05

Edelgard: 9.00

Claude: 8.977

Felix: 8.625 

Lysithea: 8.472

Petra: 8.34

Leonie: 8.2

Ferdinand: 7.78

Sylvain: 7.66

Ingrid: 7.34

Hilda: 7.31

Bernadetta: 7.125

Linhardt: 7.11

Marianne: 6.9769

Mercedes: 6.756

Dorothea: 6.375

Dedue: 5.8571

Annette: 5.5375

Hubert: 5.525

Ignatz: 4.88

Caspar: 4.32

Lorenz: 3.8077

Raphael: 3.7273

Ashe: 3.69 (nice)

 

 

Underscore: Black Eagles

Bold: Blue Lions

Itallics: Golden deer

Purple: Faculty

Boldunderscoreditallics: DLC


Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94

Average score for Blue lions: 6.82

Average score for Golden Deer: 6.543

Average score for Faculty: (Will we count Byleth for Faculty?)

 

Day 26: Seteth

Edited by Dayni

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Wow, more good units alert. Is Alois next? Seteth rocks. Despite being a flier, he's one of the naturally bulkiest units in the game including higher charm than your usual tanks. In my Maddening playthrough where I did every pre-time skip paralogue, Seteth's level 23 recruitment was just three levels behind my crew's average in post time skip, which wasn't a huge deficit. He's got very high skill ranks (note that SF is quite false in its faculty skill ranks regarding units like Seteth and Alois), joining just one rank away from Swift strikes and maybe a flying rank or two away from what he needs to attempt a Wyvern Lord certification later. Wyverns have plenty of opportunity to contribute in Chapter 12. At base he comes with batallion wrath, rally defense, and swordbreaker. If you're in Silver Snow, I highly recommend grinding out reposition in the couple weeks you have him, because his base stats don't make for great offense in chapter 13. And overall in my playthrough my Seteth I think used Rally Defense on Byleth four or five times and only one reposition to get my turn 3 reinforcements out of harm's way. Any other reposition was just getting them closer to the action ( and by the end of the map I used no more than three pulses total. Seteth can survive in chapter 13, especially with the aid of swordbreaker and dismounting on a forest tile, but at best he serves as a distraction so that Byleth can champ his way through the onslaught of enemies. My Byleth did well enough as an enlightened one with the Aegis shield punching enemies to death. I hadn't yet certified as a grappler for superior movement.

But yeah up to now we've been looking at units who are available from Chapter 1 or even the prologue. So a rating comes down to how much you value their performance in the chapters they do exist in - or if they can ever be worthy of a high rating when they're not available for most of the hardest chapters in the game. Seteth is badly in need of class masteries when he joins. Reposition is easy to grind out in the two weeks he does have in Chapter 12, but unless 99 turn grinding strategies are on the table, he won't be packing swift strikes and death blow in time for Chapter 13 of SS or 14 of the other two routes he's in. So in my mind chapter 14 is where he really begins contributing offensively. Vantage and Wrath are also theoretical pickups if you want him on the double wrath build, but by then other units like Raphael and Alois have already attained that build sooner than Seteth did. In my experience, Seteth's swift strikes failed to pick up ORKOs because I banned stat boosters and he lacked the paladin certification that Ferdinand/Sylvain had, but a Flayn attack adjutant can potentially make up the difference on top of Death blow and maybe a Str +2. And he has a 50% chance to ignore the opponent's counterattack due to his crest which is nice on top of his stellar bulk. I really didn't mind he wasn't killing units since he as usually so healthy and other fliers in the vicinity similarly couldn't kill things to begin with.

I still rate Seteth an 8.0 out of 10. Students just have so much skill tutoring to work on if you wait as long as chapter 11 and chapter 12 to recruit them, and Seteth and Alois are the only Faculty that I still think make for immediately viable units in spite of their late recruitments. And in post time skip you'll be able to buy enough flying batallions that there should be enough to go around in adding Seteth to your roster. Hell he may even be the first in your roster to hit A authority. It's really just Silver Snow where Seteth's slow start is very apparent since if your Byleth is stat screwed, or isn't equipped with the right class or batallion to survive in that map, Chapter 13 may prove the hardest map of your entire playthrough where Seteth is accomplishing very little on offense.

By the way are we looking at any particular route for faculty units? AM and VW performance should be identical for all of these units. So those two are my recommendation.

Edited by Glennstavos

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“Judgement is pass!” Seteth joins late, but he picks himself up rather quickly. He starts off as the ever so great Wyvern Rider. His personal skill grants a bonus to female units, and he supports with pretty much all of the ones you would make a Wyvern or Pegasus. When he joins he is decently bulky, but kind of slow. Then his growths will favor him gaining more Atk and Spd.

His combat arts are pretty good. He has the ever so great Swift Strikes. Monster Piercer can be a nuke to monsters if he can’t double them. Focus Strike is decent to guarantee a hit until you can get better means of boosting his accuracy. The rest are kind of whatever. Also his Major crest has a good chance of preventing an enemies counter attack, so that can be good to save you a turn from healing him. He comes with Rally Defense, so that is good for support. And Model Leader is good for him to train some battalions, although he will miss out on a bunch of them because he naturally a flier.

For classes Wyvern Lord is excellent, and he’s already naturally on the road there. One issue is that you need A rank in Axes for the best off of passing the Wyvern Lord certification, but you also want A rank in Lances for him to learn Swift Strikes, so there is a bit of awkwardness when training him up, unless you grind I guess. Paladin can be decent for more damage on his Swift Strikes, but he has a bane in Riding, so that will take sometime. Because he has Battalion Wrath and access to good Battalions with his high Authority, he can do the Wrath+Vantage combo as a Hero. 

Since he joins late you missed most of the time to get him stuff like Death Blow and Reposition, so you will have to set aside some time to regressively train him. Other good things is his support bonus with Flayn, granting him extra might, and his personal Battalion, which is very powerful.

My Raiting: 7.5/10. He will need some extra training at a time when you should be done with most of that, but he’s still a solid unit regardless.

Edited by LoneStar

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7.5 / 10 on Hard

The good:

  • Solid stat and class for a physical unit recruited at Ch12, with respectable growth of HP, Str, Spd and Chm.
  • Proficiencies in Lance, Axe, Authority and Flying, and at good ranks when joining: relatively close to learn Swift Strikes, can immediately certify Brigand and equip strong battalions, and not too difficult to certify Wyvern Lord later on.
  • Interesting personal Combat Arts:
    • Swift Strikes for automatic consecutive double attack
    • Monster Piercer which is situationally useful to break barriers
  • Major crest of Cichol, sync well with Swift Strikes for a solid chance to prevent enemy counter attack, and free to use relics.
  • Personal ability that grants +3 Mt to adjacent female units, and a special bond with Flayn that grants up to +3 Mt to each other.
  • Learns Battalion Wrath which could work with a dodge tank build, but I’ve never tried it. Probably not as efficient as Petra.

The not-so-good:

  • While he’s immediately useable when joining, to reach his full potential, he still needs a few aux battles or mission battles to master at least Brigand, as well as Archer and Soldier if one wants to improve his reliability and flexibility. 
  • Bane in Riding and joins at E rank. Even though he already has Cavalier class unlocked, he still needs some investment to access Paladin if one wants to maximise his Swift Strikes damage output. 
     
Edited by DriftingWaterBottle

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It’s Seteth. The dude has a lot of hidden facets. That’s all I’ll say about him. He starts at Level 23.

     Skill Levels:      Boons: Sword D+, Lance B+ (But oddly, in Maddening, he has B), Axe B, Authority B+ (Same as Lance), and Flying C. Bane: Riding. Solid all around.

     Abilities:     Guardian is mostly irrelevant by the time he joins. He gets Rallies Defense (D) and Res (S), Battalions Wrath (C) and Desperation (A), and Model Leader (C+).  The Rallies are Ok, Wrath is good, Desperation and Model Leader are as useless as always.

     Arts:      His Sword Art - Haze Slash (C+) - is still watered down Windsweep. Axe Arts are Focued Strike and Diamond Axe (A). Both are bad. Lances yield Monster Piercer and Swift Strikes. Monster Arts bad, blah, blah, blah. Swift Strikes, though. Remember how good it is on Ferdinand and Sylvain? It’s even better on Seteth given his Major Crest yields a Total of 75% (50% twice) chance to stop any counter that would occur.

     Stats:     48+50% HP and 27+45 Strength is rock solid, 20+50% Skill, 19+50% Speed, and 21+30% Defense could be better.12+25% Luck and 8+25% Res are bad. 20+45% Charm is great on Hard, but on Maddening, it just doesn’t cut it. Also 15+35% Magic. Whatever.

     Classes:     Ugh, if you want skills from Masteries, just class him down. Past that, keep him in Wyvern Rider and promote to Lord when able. As for the masteries he wants, I’d say Death Blow (Brigand) and Reposition (Soldier).

          The Verdict

For your SS Lord rip-off, Seteth is quite the decent unit. I’d say he’s a close contender for the Gotoh archetype in Three Houses. Grab DB and get his Lance rank up to A, and he’ll put in some heavy work. 8/10, low investment, above average reward.

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On Maddening, Seteth is another Swift Strikes bot.  Due to how late he shows up (Chapter 12 at the earliest) and the proficiencies he has (riding bane and gender keep him out of any end game class with lancefaire), it's really tough to justify making Seteth anything other than a Wyvern Lord.  And that means we really only need to consider him in comparison to the other Swift Strikes boys, Sylvain and Ferdinand. 

In terms of raw stats, all three are fairly similar.  In terms of growths, the only noticeable differences I see is that Seteth gets a bit extra Dex and a bit less Luck, but I don't consider that a major issue.  Seteth and Ferdinand share a crest, though I would argue it isn't the most useful one, whereas Sylvain has a very strong crest.  Seteth does not get a Hero's Relic, though there are a couple pieces of Holy Equipment that synergizes with the Cichol crest, but that equipment is fringe at best.  As mentioned previously, Seteth has a bane in riding, which combined with his late recruitment makes getting him into a lance focused class like Paladin much more difficult, and issue neither Sylvain or Ferdinand have.  There's an argument to be made over whether getting the extra 6 damage per turn in Paladin (3 damage per Swift Strikes hit) is worth giving up Wyvern Lord's mobility, but Seteth doesn't even have the option.  And the late recruitment means that Seteth will actually be behind the other units in your party in terms of weapon proficiency when he is recruited.  B+ lances is OK but not great, and C flying is less than what a flying unit should have at that point.  By the time he is recruited in Maddening, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect Ferdinand or Sylvain to already be A/A+ lances.

So in terms of comparison, Seteth offers the same utility as two other units, except he is less flexible, is available for less of the game, and will be behind in weapon proficiency compared.  The floor is still tolerable, given Swift Strikes, but like Ferdinand and Sylvain his raw stats won't be good enough to do anything besides Swift Strikes or pick off already weakened enemies.

I'll give Seteth a 6.5/10.  I just don't see any real reason to use him over Sylvain or Ferdinand.

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Not sure why we're jumping straight to Seteth, when all the other Church faculty comes sooner, but...

Seteth, considered on SS Maddening

The Bad

The first consideration, and it's a key one - Seteth's availability is among the most limited in the game. He's absent for much of the pre-skip, only becoming playable in chapter 12. You'll probably have most of your army together before you get him. And while those units already have their Beginner and Intermediate mastery skills, Seteth will have to choose between going back for the skills (and gimping his offense in the short-term), or forgoing said skills (lessening his potential in the long-term).

Looking at stats, given his late join time, and that he joins at level 23, bases matter more here than growths. In this regard, he's deficient in a couple areas. His Luck, at 12+0.25x, is among the game's lowest, leaving him vulnerable to crits. And a Resistance stat of 8+0.20x is another weak link, so he should avoid mages. Speaking of which, his Magic, at 15+0.30x, is decent for a physical unit, but it discourages him from pursuing a magical path. Speaking of which, his Faith list is disappointingly shallow for the Church's second-in-command. And his Reason list includes no spells of 3+ range.

Looking at proficiencies, his sole weakness is in Riding. He joins with Cavalier in his class pool (for some reason), but getting to Paladin will be an uphill gallop. Additionally, he joins with an E-rank in a lot of areas, including bows, fists, armor, and both magic types. And since you have less time to raise his ranks, he'll have a really tough time pursuing paths like Sniper or Warlock. ...Not that these are in any way ideal, but it's nice to have options, right? One more thing - as a male unit, despite having the proper proficiencies, Pegasus Knight and Falcon Knight are not options.

The Good

Seteth shows up with plenty of good stats to his name, too. Note: the stats I'm listing include Wyvern Rider mods, so they're inflated somewhat. His HP (48+0.80x) and Defense (21+0.35x) combine for serious physical bulk against all but arrows. A Strength of 27+0.55x means he hits hard, too. His Dexterity (20+0.50x), Speed (19+0.50x), and Charm (20+0.50x) are each fairly solid. It's worth keeping in mind, though, that many of these are buoyed by the strength of the Wyvern class.

Getting back to proficiencies, he has a ton of good ones to his name. He's strong in Authority, bringing the highest starting rank in the game (B+) along with him. And he's strong in Flight (C), helping him achieve Alert Stance and Wyvern Lord certification. As weapons go, his boons are in Swords (D+), Lances (B+), and Axes (B). The first isn't especially useful, unless you're going for an odd Assassin or Hero build. Lances don't do much for class access either, but going for A is still worth it. And Axes help him get into Wyvern Lord, while keeping odd builds like War Master or Fortress Knight achievable. He can also go back into Brigand, or even Fighter, for the mastery skills they proffer.

As combat arts, he has a couple interesting ones. Haze Slice is a worse Windsweep, while Focused Strike makes up for the Axuraccy problems. The most prominent, though, is Swift Strikes, coming at A-Lances. It's a brave art, which means it's good, and it turns him into a heat-sensing player-phase missile. Paladin and Great Knight are his only Lancefaire options, but considering the Riding bane, he can still do good enough damage in Wyvern Lord. Oh, and while his spell lists are lacking, he does get Excalibur for effective damage.

Seteth gets a couple extra tools at his disposal. He joins with Rally Defense, letting him buff allies who expect to take a hit on enemy-phase. And his personal ability, Guardian, buffs the offense of adjacent female units by 3. So if you've raised any bruising belles by now, they'll appreciate his proximity. One more thing - he carries the Major Crest of Cichol (a coincidence, I assure you). This gives him a stellar 50% chance to cancel counter-attacks after a combat art. And it means he won't take a penalty from useful relics like Freikugel, Luín, or the Rafail Gem.

Finally, since we're considering him on SS, he joins early in Chapter 13. Keep him in Wyvern Rider, and make sure he has a batallion. He can hold his own here - and if he can't, at least he can fly away from danget. With the right setup, though, his contribution can be crucial.

The Verdict

Seteth isn't playable for most of the game, so he can't contribute in the difficult earlygame or most pre-skip paralogues. His late jointime also means that he will have to backtrack for any useful masteries, and it makes raising his ranks in neutral areas a serious chore. But when Seteth does show up, he's a strong contributor with a lot going for him - high strength, plus physical bulk. Wyvern Rider may be the best Advanced class in the game, and his flightplan to Wyvern Lord couldn't be simpler. Swift Strikes lets him rain death upon his foes, his Crest makes the Relics viable tools, and he can support allies with Rally Defense and Guardian. He's not the most versatile, but he shows up ready to play, and doesn't really fall off. At the end of the day, I'm comfortable rating him a 6 out of 10.

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9/10, Seteth may join later than like everyone else but he is a swift strikes bot who starts as a wyvern rider and has the right boons to get himself to lord, there’s no real reason to make him anything else. On Silver Snow in particular using him in the reunion chapter is basically required- he is very good though. He has good bases and those are mostly what he will be relying on, plus good combat art and good class and boons equals good unit. He even has an authority boon!

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15 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not sure why we're jumping straight to Seteth, when all the other Church faculty comes sooner, but...

Yeah, my bad. I've barely played Three Houses, so I know basically nothing about it,

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A pre-promote? In my Three Houses? It's more likely than you'd think!

Seteth passes judgment and writes a fable about the industrious warrior ant:

Spoiler

Seteth shows up at level 23. Looking at his Commoner bases, he has a great 24+45% Str, good 19+50% Dex 47+50% HP and 20+45% Cha, alright 16+50% Spd and 19+30% Def, decent 15+35% Mag and bleh 12+25% Lck and 8+25% Res. Overall pretty good actually. Course, WR adds +3 Str and Spd and +2 Def, so he's even better in practice and that's at base.

His Strengths and Weaknesses are very solid. Strengths in all three melee weapons, Authority and Flying are a stellar combination. If he were in early game he would be absolutely amazing and if he were female I'd be close to pressing 10/10 on that alone. He has a Weakness in Riding, which is a bit unfortunate for a certain build, but what can you do.

Seteth has a surprisingly decent Reason list, with Wind, Cutting Gale, Bolganone and Excalibur, effectiveness being a nice boon. His Faith sadly sucks with H + N and Recover.

Seteth's personal skill Guardian gives adjacent female allies +3 damage, which is quite nice though takes a lot of planning to effectively use. He also has the Chihol crest, which gives him a 50% chance to prevent enemies attacking when he uses combat arts. Now, there's a reason this works so well for him, but we'll get to it with combat arts.

Seteth has a huge list of CAs and Authority abilities. His CAs are Haze Slice (Not one I'd focus on, but Haze Slice is actually neat imo) for Swords, Focused Strike (Not all that useful, but if you're desperate for the accuracy it could do) and Diamond Axe (Oh boy that's just sad) for Axes and Monster Piercer (Situationally useful) and Swift Strikes (Oh, here we go, He's not only got that art, but he also has access to Chihol crest at each strike, making it 75% chance of enemies not attacking afterwards, which is actually halfway reliable and thus an option to work with). As for his authority abilities, he gets Rally Def, Battalion Wrath (Nice, he has this and Rally Def at base which ), Model Leader (Irrelevant), Battalion Desperation (If I could trust his speed more this could be good.) and Rally Res (Sadly S Rank, so not much of a benefit). (Gee Seteth, how come you get so many skills?)

Funnily enough, on paper you could see sufficiently tanky self-sustaining Seteth with Vantage, Wrath stacking (+Battalion Wrath) and Assal+Ochain. Also being a pseudo-lord on SS matters too, especially with Reunion at Dawn (AKA CANCER) and helps by having an easy class option to help.

How did I find him?

Spoiler

In VW, he only was in WR/WL and despite that he saw some use. A pretty good 39 Str and 63 HP were alongside alright 32 Spd, 26 Def and 30 Cha. He got to A axes and Lances, which allowed him to serve a good enough function even to the finale.

In CF, he died.

In AM, he ended up with similar stats to VW and also mastered Warrior. Surprisingly beefy at 66 HP and 34 Def, while being a bit better at Dex. He proved a good unit for sure.

In SS, he was obviously crucial in RaD, but was moreso as part of my faculty focused playthrough. He got Brigand as well this time, which definitely helped his offence. Sadly low Spd at 30, alongside lower Str/Skl/Def, he at least got a nice 69 HP, Sadly no higher in terms of relevant weapon levels.

In Maddening, he had an alright time, but he didn't do as well as could be liked. This time he got Str screwed at 34 alongside 30 Spd and 28 Dex. More good HP at 66 and with 27 Def, sadly he was definitely not as good as could be liked. He had the same ranks as in SS but with A flying while he also got mastered WL, Commoner, Merc and Archer this time.

On the one hand, he arrives at Chapter 12 right at the halfway point. The good news is he's still around for 10-11 chapters and as a result is very good for ironman runs as a low investment option which I'd argue is enough to make up for it. 7.5/10 mainly because I'd only consider him a powerhouse if you're lucky (I will rate regardless of availability, because that's true for every out of house recruit).

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So we get to the Arch Bishop's right hand man Seteth. This former child of the goddess joins you late at chapter 12 assuming you're on the Golden Deer, Blue Lions, or Silver Snow routes. He does not join you at Black Eagles. What does Seteth bring to the table as a member of the Church of Seiros? Let's get into it. This is also assuming hard and no dlc.

Seteth joins you as a Wyvern Rider. He comes with a solid HP, Dex and Speed growth of 50% as well as a good strength growth of 45%. His charm growth is also quite good as well at a solid 50%. Seteth being at level 23 is a pretty good level for him to be in but he joins you late. However, he's not quite as developed as your students but he's still rocking a number of abilities off the bat. He has a boon in swords, lances, axes, authority and flying. Lances, Axes and Flying in particular are what people consider to be the holy trinity because he has easy access to Wyvern Lord. His personal ability Guardian allows adjacent female allies deal 3 extra damage during combat. This allows Seteth to act as a support for female front liners like Hilda and Leonie to deal good damage. In the case of being paired with Hilda, they can buff each other's attack by staying together. In the case of Leonie, you can use Rally Defense on her then have Leonie stand next to Seteth afterwards and not only be able to still deal extra damage thanks to Rivalry but also be able to withstand more physical damage.

He also has his fair share of other abilities he can nab quite easily considering what he starts with. Having a D+ rank in swords means he could go Mercenary to gain Vantage. He already comes with Battalion Wrath which in conjunction with Alert Stance can be effective. Of course that does mean that you have to let his HP fall to 50% while making sure that his battalion doesn't get withdrawn. He could also go to Hero can get Defiant Strength since his Axe rank is already high. For axe combat arts he gets Focused Strike which is reliable and then Diamond Axe which hurts but has -20 hit rate to consider. He also comes with Rally Defense so him being able to fly around and increase your defense can be helpful. His authority is at rank B+ so he is also one rank off from gaining access to the Cichol Wyvern Co. 

Seteth is also the third out of the "Swift Strike Squad" along with Ferdinand and Sylvain. He has lances already at B+ so he already gets Monster Piercer which only fine on occasion. He is also one rank off from getting Swift Strikes. Seteth's Major Crest of Cichol, while not useful for its occasional ability to nullify counterattacks when using combat arts since Swift Strikes usually kills anyway, allows him to use Lúin and the Lance of Ruin with Swift Strikes without the 10 HP penalty, granting him more certain kills by way of the Relics' higher might without the penalty of a riskier enemy phase. His axe rank comes at B rank so he can jump into Brigand no problem to gain Death Blow. His boon in flying also allows him to gain easy access to Alert Stance since he starts with flying rank C. Then afterwards Alert Stance + when he reaches rank A+.

His only bane is in riding but he has access to the Cavalier class. He could go Paladin if you want to maximize his damage output using Swift Strikes with Lancefaire. Though that can take some time and honestly people just prefer Wyvern Lord above all else.

Overall, I think Seteth is a solid 8/10. Despite the fact he joins you late and if you were to get him other notable abilities like Hit + 20 for example you would need to work his bow rank a bit. But after some investment Seteth can certainly contribute to the team and him having Swift Strikes as one of his main attacks is a good reason to bring him on board.

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2 hours ago, Benice said:

Yeah, my bad. I've barely played Three Houses, so I know basically nothing about it,

Oh, that's fine. For context, if you want to do the remaining units in order of recruitability, it'd go something like:

27: Cyril

28: Catherine

29: Shamir

30: Flayn

31: Hanneman

32: Manuela

33: Alois

34: Jeritza

35: Gilbert

(And then, if you want to include the DLC)

36: Anna

37: Yuri

38: Constance

39: Balthus

40: Hapi

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25 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

For context, if you want to do the remaining units in order of recruitability, it'd go something like:

Oh, thanks! That's really helpful.

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Seteth's the first unit who showcases the problems of joining late.

 

The good: On paper, Seteth seems like he'll be great. Boons in axe, flying, authority, and lance? Dude has the best talent list in the game, except maybe Claude. And he gets Swift Strikes on top of that! His stats are fine too: strength and defence are both quite high, charm is above average. His stat build is pretty similar to Hilda's, trading away some speed for slightly better stats elsewhere thanks to autolevelling as a wyvern, and that's a good place to be.

The less good: Seteth joins in chapter 12 and he has not done a good job of training his skills. He can't get Swift Strikes until Chapter 14 at the earliest, compared to other units who've had their A-rank skills since around Chapter 9 or so. Despite his authority boon, it's not hard to have anyone authority neutral at B by his join time, and those with authority boons can reasonably expect to be at A. Want to go paladin to max out his Swift Strikes damage? Guess you're training Riding from an E, then. And did I say he has a flying boon? Forget that, C in Chapter 12 means he's never getting Alert Stance+. His defence isn't actually good in practice because any other axe user could dip into Fortress Knight and almost match has join stat with that class's base. (And most of them have better than 5+50% speed, unboosted by wyvern growths.) I could go on.

The biggest chilling effect, though, is that he'll miss out on key skills. Repositioning combat arts are extremely useful; everyone else one for free, Seteth needs a 30-action detour in a 4-move class (ugh). Death Blow? Try 50 actions in a 5-move class. (Knowledge Gem halves these, to be fair.) Stacking Death Blow with Hit+20% or Darting Blow (not that he can get the latter anyway)? lol.

You see this effect most strongly in SS Reunion at Dawn. Frankly, if Seteth isn't your worst PC there out of the westside joiners, you've probably screwed up the build of one of the other four. When I played SS I had a Hexblade Dorothea who could one-shot every enemy on the map and a dodgetank Dancer Caspar who could bait and survive anything, Petra and Byleth were good too. Seteth... was not.

The good, again: Now, the nice thing is, if you are willing to stick with him and pick up the skills he missed, get Swift Strikes, get A authority, then suddenly you have a good PC probably around chapter 16 or 17 or so, who will put in solid work the rest of the way. Seteth's strength is quite good, the best of the three Swift Strikes users once he gets Death Blow, so he will sometimes snag kills they miss, even if they might beat him for speed and utility (and in Ferdinand's case, dodging). Or, if you're feeling lazy, and just want to fill out your roster in maps where deployment balloons to 12, and he'll do fine (especially if you make him an adjutant before this so he can get the skills he missed).

That turned into a bit of an illustration of the problem of joining late, so I don't have to repeat myself over and over for the other characters this applies to (everyone from Hanneman/Manuela on). However, Seteth is still decent despite this, the second best late-joiner (Jeritza beats him). While clearly worse than Sylvain or Ferdinand, I think Seteth still manages a 5.5./10 (Maddening).

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
doublepasted, oops

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6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Oh, that's fine. For context, if you want to do the remaining units in order of recruitability, it'd go something like:

27: Cyril

28: Catherine

29: Shamir

30: Flayn

31: Hanneman

32: Manuela

33: Alois

34: Jeritza

35: Gilbert

(And then, if you want to include the DLC)

36: Anna

37: Yuri

38: Constance

39: Balthus

40: Hapi

I had a different mentaility (in order of the support list in game), apologies for putting Seteth there.

Also, that close to the end huh?

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6/10 based on Maddening mode, he joins in one of the best class in the game with solid bases + good growth + A rank Swift Strike but he is missing for nearly half the game so I can't give Seteth a score higher than 6

Edited by Ari Chan

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16 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

Looking at stats, given his late join time, and that he joins at level 23, bases matter more here than growths. In this regard, he's deficient in a couple areas. His Luck, at 12+0.25x, is among the game's lowest, leaving him vulnerable to crits. And a Resistance stat of 8+0.20x is another weak link, so he should avoid mages. Speaking of which, his Magic, at 15+0.30x, is decent for a physical unit, but it discourages him from pursuing a magical path. Speaking of which, his Faith list is disappointingly shallow for the Church's second-in-command. And his Reason list includes no spells of 3+ range.

You know I would have liked it if he had some more potential as a magic unit. It would have made sense lorewise. 

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Seteth I think was considered one of the strongest units in the game upon release, when Hard was the only difficulty mode available and builds were a bit less optimized.  He's still a great pub-stomper character in that Wyvern Rider is a bustedly good line, so simply doing what the game tells you to do will result in a pretty solid flyer on Hard if your other characters are not closely optimized.  As people have learned how to optimize character builds for the power skills & classes more and Maddening came out, Seteth has definitely suffered a bit...  the flavor clearly thinks that Wyvern Lords can use lances and Heroes axes and Holy Knights Lances and the like, but the game system just doesn't agree.  -Faires are too good to go without, meaning that an optimized, Maddening Seteth needs to go Paladin to optimize his Swift Strikes or else give up on SS / Spear of Assal to focus entirely on axes.  Death Blow is also just too good for a Swift Strikes user, so Seteth requires an annoying double-back into Brigand as well.  As a result, Seteth is one of the units for whom this criterion comes into play a good amount:

"-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse."

If this means "do no Aux battles whatsoever", then Seteth is hurting, because he's either deploying as an Adjutant only for awhile to catch up on those old skills, or he's deploying in weird classes like Brigand or Cavalier (for the riding skill rank).  I suspect that the occasional Aux battle when there's extra battling time post-Paralogue isn't unreasonable myself, and a Knowledge Gem on a late-joiner to master Brigand fast isn't too bad then.

Seteth's late start and dependence on grinding means he can be anywhere from 4-7, depending on how harsh you are on catching him up.  Call him a 5 overall - solid stats, right skill proficiency, & Spear of Assal, but the late start is annoying.

Edited by SnowFire

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