New Heroes: Princess of Bern

[daisy jane]

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

That one role does a lot though. A nuke with triple Dancers/Singers is still one of the best and easiest way to solve most Abyssal content, and that nuke needs Desperation to work unless it is a Blazing nuke or something.

Players can make Flight skills work, but a skill that is just workable is not on the same level as a skill that trivializes modes.

Well there is really no "best" way to do an abyssal. I'm not dismissing it, i'm not saying desperation is bad. It just gets very stale when everything is just  3 dancers and a nuke. or a Tank and support. the challenge is there in either way, but so having skills that have you not - to use your word. "trivialize" modes. for example. I use Ophelia for my MS runs (activated by Sophia and Micaiah) which makes the whole thing go by very quickly. I then also try to do it with other techniques. just to help me get better at the game in other facets - AI movements. seeing what units can take what kind of punishment, 

I don't like galeforcing (like at all) but i build galeforce units because it's a different way to play the way i am used to. for me- i love duel phase skills so i am all about the flight skills because i don't have to trigger a trap or wait for a bolt tower to go off- it will work. (will it work in abyssal with bloated stats? no. but then you try other things). I just feel that having options outside ofthe basics. is really good and can just give you other ways to play and stretch how you play. Which is why (I personally feel) it's important to have some of these skills into the 3-4* pool (I mean the flights won't like ever, but in general). we haven't really had that opportunity.  But i think dismissing certain skills because it's not "desperation" (or QR) isn't really a good thing either. 

[Xenomata]

@XRay @Baldrick Why are the two of you ONLY looking at Aureola. You know as well as I do no one's replacing her default kit outside of narwhales, and by default she gets Atk/Res Push 4 and Lull Atk/Res. Maybe it's not the +21 Atk Lysithea gets, but she's still effectively getting +15 Atk from initiating combat or being near allies, and against tomes she has an extra 50% damage, which Tomes make up the vast majority of offensive threats. (any team with Ophelia has at least 3 tomes on it, any Dark AR-D team has Brammimond and Yune, Lysithea and LegAzura are some of the other most used Tomes in AR-D, and I'm sure Xane would go up in usage if people figure out how to get him the highest stats on AR-D) She gets the OHKO because of the environment she is used in, not necessarily because she gets a lot of Atk and endless Special Triggers.

As for countering... I assume you mean Evasion skills, I don't use the term Damage Reduction... she would do it with raw Spd. If she were going to be a slow but powerful mage who could double attack anyway like Brammimond, she wouldn't have the Spd bonus she gets. But as it stands, she has the potential to build up Spd to either completely nullify the Evasion bonus or at least mitigate it, depending on her actual base Spd of course. Yes I know it doesn't counter damage reduction from Urvan, Caduceas Staff, or Blue Lion Rule (she is NOT gonna have any Def), but countering the commonly available Evasion skills is a step in the direction.

You mention that the units I mentioned besides Lysithea aren't true OHKO units if you use the right unit. We both know that's bullcrap in AR-O, you don't have the luxury of seeing the kinds of units the enemy is using and then picking the right counters unless you have multiple AR-O teams set up. I may have picked somewhat bad examples in mostly Arena units (there's a lot of heroes to remember, sue me), but the fact remains: Gunievere has effective damage against 4 kinds of enemy units that will not be able to do anything about it outside of exceeding whatever her Res is in Blazing Special damage.

...also the only reason I counted Legendary Edelgard as a OHKO is because she doesn't actually have a reliable automatic follow-up, so she's doing a lot of her damage all at once per combat.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Xenomata

[jake72002]

The Contents of the Aureolia Tome: "And Saint Elimine raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Naga, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Naga did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chulapas. And Naga spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Askr towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.' -  some guy I read.

Edited November 16, 2020 by jake72002

[Punished Dayni]

We can finally use Guinevire without playing BB 9 times!

First we get Melady (the L/R catastrope strikes back), a lance flier with Instant Lance +3 (When initiating gets Atk/Def +4 and foe can't followup), Bonfire 3, Atk/Def Solo 4 and Wyvern Flight 3 (If unit Spd is > foe's Spd -11, inflicts penalty on foe's Atk/Def =50% of difference between their Def stats (max 7) (So pegasus flight but possibly better)). Next is Dieck(s), who's an axe infantry (wha? Gerik 2.0 I guess) with Tiger-Roar Axe (So HE gets a PRF?) (SC-1, if unit initiates or is in 2 spaces of an ally, gets +5 to all stats and if foe's HP = 100% unit gets a guaranteed folllowup), Luna, Close Def 4 (If foe initiates and uses physical damage, gets Def/Res +8 and neutralises bonuses (eh)), NFU 3 and Threaten Atk/Def 3, Merlinus (WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ROY NO), with Smoke Dagger+, Reposition, WoM 3 and Distant Guard 3 (So he's our demote. Chrisot ar chapall). Finally is Guinevere who's a blue tome infantry with Aureola (And there it is. People called it) (Magic effectiveness, Res +3, if unit initiates/is in two spaces of an ally gets +5 to all stats and disables adaptive damage and also restores 7 HP to unit and allies in two spaces after combat (Now BoL is powercrept)), Iceberg, Atk/Res Push 4, Lull Atk/Res 3 and Joint Drive Res (Nothing much new here). Turns out Galle is the GHB, let's hope his kit's alright, he does get guard lance.

Merlinus is in the game. Merlinus. Not Gonzales. Most certainly not Elen. Not even Dayan. Merlinus. FFS IS. Even if this is probably the cleverest the fool's ever been because he's the first dagger cav who's not 5* locked and the first non-infantry dagger who's not seasonal/Eir. Aside from that the banner's a maybe. I doubt i'll spend up in practice, colour sharing makes Guinevere hard to get and Dieck may be good but I'm not that needing of him.

[Etria]

Yes, I want Merlinus. I don't dig his art, especially his attack art, but I still want him the most. Guinevere is neat too, but Merlinus is my favorite.

[XRay]

36 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Why are the two of you ONLY looking at Aureola. You know as well as I do no one's replacing her default kit outside of narwhales, and by default she gets Atk/Res Push 4 and Lull Atk/Res.

Aureola is the only skill that matters since it is unique to her. Her other skills and stat spread are replaceable by any other skill or blue mage.

And her default skill kit is not great either. Atk/Res Push needs to go, as that skill renders her healing rather pointless. Enemy phase wants Mirror Stance, and Sylvia got the tier 2 version of it. For dual phase, Atk/Res Solo is not cheap, but Flora will be in the next batch of units that will get Weekly Revival Foci hopefully soon. Drive Res is not horrible, but I would go with Atk Smoke. Aureola also gives her Spd, so her Spd most likely is not half bad either, so that means she cannot rely on being doubled to trigger Iceberg consistently, so she will need Moonbow or Glimmer.

46 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Maybe it's not the +21 Atk Lysithea gets, but she's still effectively getting +15 Atk from initiating combat or being near allies, and against tomes she has an extra 50% damage, which Tomes make up the vast majority of offensive threats. (any team with Ophelia has at least 3 tomes on it, any Dark AR-D team has Brammimond and Yune, Lysithea and LegAzura are some of the other most used Tomes in AR-D, and I'm sure Xane would go up in usage if people figure out how to get him the highest stats on AR-D) She gets the OHKO because of the environment she is used in, not necessarily because she gets a lot of Atk and endless Special Triggers.

Lysithea gets far more than +21 Atk. Slaying-Time's Pulse gives her Moonbow enough consistency to take it far above 21 Atk.

+15 Atk is not enough to reliably kill things in one hit. CE!Chrom and FE!Edelgard are not terrorizing people because of their damage output, it is their mobility that catches players off guard that is scary. They are basically the new ranged cavalry units that people used to dread fighting back in 2017. If anything, regular Bold Fighter units hits even harder than those two, but no one is scared of them.

Mages are not the only threat in Aether Raids. Archers are often featured in Infantry Pulse teams too so the defense team can hit both Def and Res. Ophelia does not need 3 mages since Infantry Pulse can also charge up her Special. Unless Guinivere has an insanely high visible Res stat, she is going to be overwhelmed by Blazing mages. And even if her Res is super high, she can also still get overwhelmed by Glacies or Ignis bombs.

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

You mention that the units I mentioned besides Lysithea aren't true OHKO units if you use the right unit. We both know that's bullcrap in AR-O, you don't have the luxury of seeing the kinds of units the enemy is using and then picking the right counters unless you have multiple AR-O teams set up. I may have picked somewhat bad examples in mostly Arena units (there's a lot of heroes to remember, sue me), but the fact remains: Gunievere has effective damage against 4 kinds of enemy units that will not be able to do anything about it outside of exceeding whatever her Res is in Blazing Special damage.

You are supposed to have multiple team set ups though. I have four teams for Light (BH!Ike super tank, Sharena super tank, infantry Galeforce, regular player phase) and three for Astra (Kronya Counter-Vantage, BH!Ike super tank, regular player phase). I was managing Astra with only Kronya for quite some time, but it was neither fun nor easy after a while. I am only using BH!Ike super tank teams right now, but if the meta shifts, I still have other teams to fall back on.

And those four kinds of enemies are not the only enemies in Aether Raids. Infantry Pulse and cav line usually have a mix of nukes that target Def and Res. Blindly bringing Guinivere into the fight is the equivalent of bringing DB!Lyon into the fight without checking whether the defense team has melee units. DB!Lyon works wonders if all the opponents ever uses are just ranged units, but that is highly unlikely, since cav line is nowhere being the dominant type of defense team. I think it is even more unlikely for a team to be composed of solely mages since it is so easy to incorporate an archer or dagger unit to cover Def as well.

[Baldrick]

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

@XRay @Baldrick Why are the two of you ONLY looking at Aureola.

Because you said Aureola was meant to be "Weapons meant to be One-Hit Wonders without being Bladetomes" and compared it to Hades. Hades is far more optimised to compete with Blade Tomes for raw damage.

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

You know as well as I do no one's replacing her default kit outside of narwhales, and by default she gets Atk/Res Push 4 and Lull Atk/Res. Maybe it's not the +21 Atk Lysithea gets, but she's still effectively getting +15 Atk from initiating combat or being near allies, and against tomes she has an extra 50% damage, which Tomes make up the vast majority of offensive threats. (any team with Ophelia has at least 3 tomes on it, any Dark AR-D team has Brammimond and Yune, Lysithea and LegAzura are some of the other most used Tomes in AR-D, and I'm sure Xane would go up in usage if people figure out how to get him the highest stats on AR-D) She gets the OHKO because of the environment she is used in, not necessarily because she gets a lot of Atk and endless Special Triggers.

+21 Atk plus 30% of the opponent's resistance. For reference, if you gave Guinevere a Blarblade she'd get +11 Atk plus the sum of her buffs (up to 24 damage). Aureola may suck, but she's got excellent fodder.

If you don't have the luxury of seeing the kinds of units the enemy is using, you don't know if they're even using mages so relying on effective damage boost is a crapshoot.

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

As for countering... I assume you mean Evasion skills, I don't use the term Damage Reduction... she would do it with raw Spd.

Aureola only gives +5 to speed, and neither of her default skills help the speed check. To be able to match the average Evasion tank, she'll need at least 50 base speed.

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Gunievere has effective damage against 4 kinds of enemy units that will not be able to do anything about it outside of exceeding whatever her Res is in Blazing Special damage.

4 kinds out of 24 total. Or 119 out of 576 units.

[Mercakete]

I guess the entire banner is named after the banner star this time. Okay? Also, I suppose that's the FE6 red-armored green-wyvern lady (a la Minerva, Jill, Altena...) I wonder if she turned against her people, too. Anyway, dang, Guinevere and Diek are flippin' busted. Also, Instant Lance+ is hilarious. Sounds like an infomercial product. XD

All that said, I am extremely pleasantly surprised to see Merlinus! =D I'm going to have to eventually put together a merchant team. Jorge, Merlinus... Maybe Ilyana since guarding merchants is sort of her job. I refuse to put any Annas on this team, though. I don't like her and am very tired of the joke. I hope other FE merchants get some representation like these guys got. ^_^ Maybe we'll even get something like spendthrift, if we haven't already. Anyway, I'll pull a little for Merlinus, but then I'll stop, I suppose.

[Othin]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Aureola is the only skill that matters since it is unique to her. Her other skills and stat spread are replaceable by any other skill or blue mage.

Premium starting skills absolutely matter. They aren't relevant to players who can replace them easily, but most players have at least some limitations on access to them. It makes no sense to throw in a "assuming you're willing to spend infinite cash to get optimal builds on everyone" in a discussion with people who, for the most part, are probably not willing to do so.

4 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

I guess the entire banner is named after the banner star this time. Okay? Also, I suppose that's the FE6 red-armored green-wyvern lady (a la Minerva, Jill, Altena...) I wonder if she turned against her people, too. Anyway, dang, Guinevere and Diek are flippin' busted. Also, Instant Lance+ is hilarious. Sounds like an infomercial product. XD

All that said, I am extremely pleasantly surprised to see Merlinus! =D I'm going to have to eventually put together a merchant team. Jorge, Merlinus... Maybe Ilyana since guarding merchants is sort of her job. I refuse to put any Annas on this team, though. I don't like her and am very tired of the joke. I hope other FE merchants get some representation like these guys got. ^_^ Maybe we'll even get something like spendthrift, if we haven't already. Anyway, I'll pull a little for Merlinus, but then I'll stop, I suppose.

They've done banner names like this before, such as the one named after Chrom. I forget if there were any others.

Midori could be an option for a red merchant.

[Mercakete]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Midori could be an option for a red merchant.

I don't think I have her and the only version of her I think I'd like is if she got a ninja alt. It'd be cool to see her embracing her father's culture like that outside of her Fates supports with him. I did consider her, though (she's less of a merchant and more of an apothecary anyway.) We'll see how everything fills in as time goes on. I'm not in any rush to fill in this team, but yeah, red or green would be ideal (since it's a colorless and two blues so far.)

[Baldrick]

21 minutes ago, Othin said:

Premium starting skills absolutely matter. They aren't relevant to players who can replace them easily, but most players have at least some limitations on access to them. It makes no sense to throw in a "assuming you're willing to spend infinite cash to get optimal builds on everyone" in a discussion with people who, for the most part, are probably not willing to do so.

Death Blow 3 is a budget skill, and as for the Lull, it costs the same amount of orbs to pull Guinevere as it does to obtain a copy of Atk/Res Lull. The question of whether it's worth using Guinevere or foddering her to your budget mage of choice depends on how good Aureola is, since that's the only part of her default kit that can't be foddered.

[Othin]

11 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Death Blow 3 is a budget skill, and as for the Lull, it costs the same amount of orbs to pull Guinevere as it does to obtain a copy of Atk/Res Lull. The question of whether it's worth using Guinevere or foddering her to your budget mage of choice depends on how good Aureola is, since that's the only part of her default kit that can't be foddered.

I don't think it's that simple. Guinevere is a whole separate unit, which matters to a lot of people. Personally I spend orbs for new units, never for skill fodder.

[Baldrick]

16 minutes ago, Othin said:

I don't think it's that simple. Guinevere is a whole separate unit, which matters to a lot of people. Personally I spend orbs for new units, never for skill fodder.

If you’re a collector, sure. But for people who would pull for fodder, whether she’s worth using as fodder depends on her unique utility.

[Mercakete]

53 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

If you’re a collector, sure. But for people who would pull for fodder, whether she’s worth using as fodder depends on her unique utility.

Personally, I wish I could have Elena with a skill/weapon like her tome. 🥺 Made something less broken but otherwise similar in "create a unit." I just worry that Elena won't be treated as heronlike even though she (and Mist) are very heronlike in their order-alignment (hence why they can hold the medallion.)

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

Premium starting skills absolutely matter. They aren't relevant to players who can replace them easily, but most players have at least some limitations on access to them. It makes no sense to throw in a "assuming you're willing to spend infinite cash to get optimal builds on everyone" in a discussion with people who, for the most part, are probably not willing to do so.

And I have already mentioned affordable replacements for them. Mirror Stance 2 is a loss of Atk/Res-3 but with no recoil for better sustainability. Atk Smoke on C easily makes up for that loss on the A slot and give better physical bulk too. Switching to Moonbow or Glimmer is going to give better damage output than Iceberg.

[Magical Glace]

10 hours ago, Flying Shogi said:

I'd trade you my +5 SR!Wolt if I could. 

Not pulling on this banner but they did Aureola's animation justice.

I actually have a +10 Summer Wolt, lol.  I just want to be able to max out OG too.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Well, we already know that Galle has a guard lance. So... rip.

[DraceEmpressa]

3 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Well, we already know that Galle has a guard lance. So... rip.

Spoiler

I heard he has DC? says a lot if a free unit has that , cmiiw

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, DraceEmpressa said:

  Hide contents

I heard he has DC? says a lot if a free unit has that , cmiiw

 

Spoiler

I don't know where you're hearing that, but I would be shocked if that were true.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

  Hide contents

I don't know where you're hearing that, but I would be shocked if that were true.

 

Local FEH group on FB, but either way....

 

Spoiler

either that, or DD. but the commenter prolly is joking since he said the B skill is Lull atk def and fliers can't have lulls.

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

The sad thing about Galle is that he does use a light brand in trial maps, so they could have made him a sword flier with a prf weapon. Leif's Light Brand isn't amazing, but it is pretty unique, and it's not like we're swimming in f2p sword fliers.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Galle's art is freaking awesome. I might just build him up purely for the art. They knocked it out of the park with him.

[NSSKG151]

Galle having Guard Lance is nice since now I don't have to sacrifice my only Fiora for that. Hopefully he has at least one other good skill for fodder.

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Yikes, that's right. Halloween Sakura's Kitty Paddle didn't get a refine because apparently it was too strong but Guinevere gets to have a stronger weapon with magic effectiveness and all these other effects tacked on it?

Heroes is so full of shit.

Of the 119 tome users in the game (if I counted correctly), the median base Def is 19, but the median base Res is 28. The Def stat on mages is so consistently low that there only 13 mages with a base Def stat of 28 or higher. Additionally, tome weapons are far more likely to boost Res than Def, and mages are more likely to get default skills that boost Res than Def.

With the effective damage bonus active, Aureola has 16.5 more Atk than Kitty Paddle, which means it's only dealing 7.5 more damage per hit against a median mage (less if the mage has more Res boosts than Def boosts from skills), assuming your dagger unit has the same base Atk as Guinevere (and each point of Atk cuts into that lead by 1.5 points). I think that's pretty reasonable when comparing an exclusive weapon with an inheritable weapon.

I'm not sure what the stats are on the opponent in the trailer video, but the typical Lunatic (indicated by the 38 HP) red mage has 28-29 Res, meaning Guinevere probably has 35 base Atk. Considering the premier F2P dagger user is Sothe, who has 36 base Atk, I don't think Aureola's advantage over Kitty Paddle+ in the mage-killing department is all that impressive.

[joevar]

oh nice, just finished BB again after a long time. So just like FE cipher, Dieck canon weapon is axe huh despite being a mercenary. But merlinus attacking with throwing dagger? should have ram people with his convoy cart instead, lol