Units that perform differently in Revelations

[LJ_Reflet]

I was just kind of wondering about which units perform differently in Revelations compared to how they perform in their home routes, whether it's an improvement or a downgrade. So far I'm only on chapter 13 of Revelations, so I've only picked up the Hoshidans plus Camilla and her retainers, so I can't say much about the Nohrian units yet.

First, I feel like Hayato sees the biggest improvement and can actually outshine Orochi, who ends up being downgraded. I didn't find Orochi THAT great in Birthright, but she was my only reliable tome user and did the job pretty well when I needed some magic damage (I never really used Capture tho). Hayato joins at level 1 in BR so it's a pain to train him. However, in Revelations, he comes with great bases in both magic and speed and can easily ORKO upon joining. I found that he did extremely well in chapter 10 as well. Orochi unfortunately comes in underleveled in Revelations and Hayato would have already seen some training before her chapter.

Sakura gets a little bit of a glow up too. I feel like a lot of people have said that her healing isn't useful at all in BR, especially in the very beginning where her healing is less effective than a vulnerary. I personally appreciate having a healer in any team, so I liked Sakura from the start. Her bases are only slightly better in Rev, but I think it's just healing is probably more necessary in Revelations than it is in BR. Plus, she has easier access to a Shining Bow in Rev which is nice if you plan on turning her into a Priestess. Elise joins significantly later with a D rank in staves, and by the time she joins, Sakura probably would have already hit C staves.

Subaki's a bit of a mixed bag in both routes, but he has the benefit of being an early flier in both games on top of being the only early flier in Rev until Reina comes in. I have my Corrin/Kamui as a Sky Knight so I wasn't really in need of a flier, but the more the merrier, right? LOL (actually having 2 fliers was great tbh HAHA). He definitely has his spotlight in the Wind Tribe chapter and can ferry other units around and, if his offensive stats are good enough, he can fight his way around the map. I haven't gotten Hinoka yet, I do hear her late join in Rev really hurts her compared to how she is in BR.

I'm trying to use Hana and Hinata a little more because I remembered I felt I was lacking a sword unit outside of Ryoma in my BR playthrough, but I never used either of them in BR so I can't say much to compare LOL. So far, they're okay, Hinata has the exact same bases and similar join time as BR, so I wouldn't expect him to be different. Hana has slightly worse bases in Rev unfortunately, though.

What do you think, are there any other units that perform differently in Rev or are they overall pretty similar ?

Edited November 16, 2020 by Tenma

[Sooks]

Odin is basically unusable on a no grinding run in Revelations because he joins level 12 unpromoted with fitting bases...

in chapter 17.

Quite a few of the enemies there can ORKO him.

Of course grinding can mitigate that but if you’re already grinding him you might as well grind his support on top of that and get his way better daughter.

That’s really the only one I recall, but I think Niles, Peri, and Laslow (who all join in chapter 17 unpromoted) all suffer similar fates.

[Punished Dayni]

Nyx also suffers the same fate.

Only a few units like Silas had their base level adjusted for being moved to different chapters compared to their base game (the Chapter 16/17 characters do, so Hinoka could be worse.), Elise's crew gets adjusted by 2 levels, same with Saizo and Orochi from earlier, Sakura alone got 3 levels and Hayato got that big boost. Everybody else I'm pretty sure's unchanged.

It really hurts most of them if we're honest.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Dayni

[LJ_Reflet]

36 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Odin is basically unusable on a no grinding run in Revelations because he joins level 12 unpromoted with fitting bases...

in chapter 17.

Quite a few of the enemies there can ORKO him.

Of course grinding can mitigate that but if you’re already grinding him you might as well grind his support on top of that and get his way better daughter.

That’s really the only one I recall, but I think Niles, Peri, and Laslow (who all join in chapter 17 unpromoted) all suffer similar fates.

 

11 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Nyx also suffers the same fate.

Only a few units like Silas had their base level adjusted for being moved to different chapters compared to their base game (the Chapter 16/17 characters do, so Hinoka could be worse.), Elise's crew gets adjusted by 2 levels, same with Saizo and Orochi from earlier, Sakura alone got 3 levels and Hayato got that big boost. Everybody else I'm pretty sure's unchanged.

It really hurts most of them if we're honest.

Wow the devs really said Hoshido>Nohr 😭😭

I am currently struggling with Saizo at the moment, as he can't really double unless he's paired up. But then again, chapter 13 is still pretty early for him. I honestly don't remember his early game performance in BR, but he was one of my best units in the late game, critting and proccing Lethality every other hit. I'd be pretty upset if he doesn't do as well as before haha.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Tenma said:

Wow the devs really said Hoshido>Nohr 😭😭

I thought it would have been quite interesting to have Hoshidan units and Nohrian units join at similar times but it’s basically you grab all of Hoshido then you grab all of Nohr.

The devs don’t really care though, because they really really want you to use all of the royal siblings + Azura which will take up all or most of your deployment slots when possible. The other units are just filler to them until that, and no one can change my mind.

[Punished Dayni]

4 minutes ago, Tenma said:

Wow the devs really said Hoshido>Nohr 😭😭

I am currently struggling with Saizo at the moment, as he can't really double unless he's paired up. But then again, chapter 13 is still pretty early for him. I honestly don't remember his early game performance in BR, but he was one of my best units in the late game, critting and proccing Lethality every other hit. I'd be pretty upset if he doesn't do as well as before haha.

Saizo has one of the better growths in the game anyway, so if he doesn't that's be him screwed.

Really though, with the amount of Dragon Veins in Rev, I agree with Sooks that they really want you to focus on the Fates Royals.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:51 PM, Tenma said:

I am currently struggling with Saizo at the moment, as he can't really double unless he's paired up.

On 11/16/2020 at 6:00 PM, Dayni said:

Saizo has one of the better growths in the game anyway, so if he doesn't that's be him screwed.

Shame he wastes 55% growth on Lck (maybe he wants to be saved by his bro?).

His only niche is being kinda strong, kinda magical and a bit tanky - which just makes him jack of all trades. 

As for grinding out levels, if I may point that out, chapter 13 is an excellent map to do so -  it gives you a choke point whose accessibility you can control and stacking the royal sisters on a unit makes for some neat damage increase/reduction. 

On 11/16/2020 at 4:48 PM, Tenma said:

Hana has slightly worse bases in Rev unfortunately, though.

While I like using Hana I think she´s too weak, too slow and above all, by virtue of being Hana,too frail for Rev. To the point that she can´t really contribute in the next chapter and after that point there´s no reason to bring her along.

On 11/16/2020 at 4:48 PM, Tenma said:

Sakura gets a little bit of a glow up too.

I think what one has to consider when making her a Priestess is, that the promotion also gives her some Str - so even regular bows should be cool for a bit. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Imuabicus

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Tenma said:

First, I feel like Hayato sees the biggest improvement and can actually outshine Orochi, who ends up being downgraded. I didn't find Orochi THAT great in Birthright, but she was my only reliable tome user and did the job pretty well when I needed some magic damage (I never really used Capture tho). Hayato joins at level 1 in BR so it's a pain to train him. However, in Revelations, he comes with great bases in both magic and speed and can easily ORKO upon joining. I found that he did extremely well in chapter 10 as well. Orochi unfortunately comes in underleveled in Revelations and Hayato would have already seen some training before her chapter.

That's rather accurate.

3 hours ago, Tenma said:

Sakura gets a little bit of a glow up too. I feel like a lot of people have said that her healing isn't useful at all in BR, especially in the very beginning where her healing is less effective than a vulnerary. I personally appreciate having a healer in any team, so I liked Sakura from the start. Her bases are only slightly better in Rev, but I think it's just healing is probably more necessary in Revelations than it is in BR. Plus, she has easier access to a Shining Bow in Rev which is nice if you plan on turning her into a Priestess. Elise joins significantly later with a D rank in staves, and by the time she joins, Sakura probably would have already hit C staves.

I don't think that's right though.

3 hours ago, Tenma said:

What do you think, are there any other units that perform differently in Rev or are they overall pretty similar ?

Odin and Nyx got screwed big time (but both suck pretty badly in Conquest anyway, especially Nyx). Rinkah also got ruined (but even in Birthright, she was pretty crappy to begin with). Xander and Leo's retainers, as well as Hinoka's, are also worse off due to joining much later (worse yet, the chapter they join in is a one-two punch where once you complete the first chapter, you are immediately thrust into the second chapter, and thus if you screw up, you have to do the first chapter all over again). On the flipside, Silas got improved, joining a few levels away from level 20 to compensate for joining much later.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[SoulWeaver]

5 hours ago, Sooks said:

they really really want you to use all of the royal siblings + Azura which will take up all or most of your deployment slots when possible. The other units are just filler to them until that, and no one can change my mind.

Which is funny because I never use Leo, Xander, or Ryoma, rarely use Hinoka or Azura, and usually skip Elise. Pretty much it boils down to Camilla, Sakura, and sometimes Takumi.

7 hours ago, Tenma said:

Sakura gets a little bit of a glow up too. I feel like a lot of people have said that her healing isn't useful at all in BR, especially in the very beginning where her healing is less effective than a vulnerary. I personally appreciate having a healer in any team, so I liked Sakura from the start. Her bases are only slightly better in Rev, but I think it's just healing is probably more necessary in Revelations than it is in BR. Plus, she has easier access to a Shining Bow in Rev which is nice if you plan on turning her into a Priestess. Elise joins significantly later with a D rank in staves, and by the time she joins, Sakura probably would have already hit C staves.

Uh...who uses her as a Healer? She's a beatstick, easy, my latest favorite thing to do with her is marry Kaze/Saizo then go Master Ninja. Surprisingly solid assassin for someone who doesn't like fighting.

[LJ_Reflet]

10 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Shame he wastes 55% growth on Lck (maybe he wants to be saved by his bro?).

His only niche is being kinda strong, kinda magical and a bit tanky - which just makes him jack of all trades. 

I still love Saizo tho haha. He's definitely more balanced than the other 2 ninjas tho, as Kaze falls behind on strength and Kagero falls behind on survivability (still great units regardless). Saizo finds the middleground between the two with a high skill to boot.

8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't think that's right though.

How so? I do like Sakura, so maybe I'm just biased haha. I do agree with Nyx and Odin being terrible in CQ tho, I pretty much benched them almost immediately (but that's because I had a Dark Falcon Corrin on CQ so I didn't really need their magic LOL)

10 hours ago, Sooks said:

I thought it would have been quite interesting to have Hoshidan units and Nohrian units join at similar times but it’s basically you grab all of Hoshido then you grab all of Nohr.

The devs don’t really care though, because they really really want you to use all of the royal siblings + Azura which will take up all or most of your deployment slots when possible. The other units are just filler to them until that, and no one can change my mind.

Honestly, before starting Revelations, I was expecting them to trickle in together. It sucks that it really creates an imbalance for the characters between the two nations as later join times really affect their performance--especially because Hoshido characters really lack any tanky units. But yea, you right tho LOL, I feel pretty obligated to use the royals.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Tenma

[Shadow Mir]

19 minutes ago, Tenma said:

How so? I do like Sakura, so maybe I'm just biased haha. I do agree with Nyx and Odin being terrible in CQ tho, I pretty much benched them almost immediately (but that's because I had a Dark Falcon Corrin on CQ so I didn't really need their magic LOL)

Because her personal skill is huge when most of your units are defensively lacking.

Also, I'd say Arthur and Charlotte are even worse off in Revelation than in Conquest, where they both suck.

[LJ_Reflet]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because her personal skill is huge when most of your units are defensively lacking.

Also, I'd say Arthur and Charlotte are even worse off in Revelation than in Conquest, where they both suck.

Ahhh I definitely agree with this. It's just I read through a lot of old posts and forums saying that Sakura wasn't that great as a unit, but I personally disagreed and enjoyed Sakura throughout my BR playthrough haha.

And I'm ngl, Arthur  p i s s e d  m e  o f f  oh my gOD.

He was a huge liability for me and was one of the sole reasons why I kept restarting chapter 10 in CQ because he kept dying from unlucky crits and constantly missed his attacks. My judgement of him won't change even if he's different in Revelations LOL.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Sakura is better in Revelation than Birthright IMO because (a) she's no longer competing with Azama, so she and your servant are the only two staff users for a while [and therefore the only one if you reclass Jakob to Paladin, as is popular] and (b) the Shining Bow exists and is a great fit for her as a Priestess.

Anyway I second most of the names so far, in particular...

Better in Revelation: Hayato, Shura, Subaki (probably. Having flight for the wind map is super cool), Sakura

Worse in Revelation: Hana, Setsuna, Azama, Hinoka (a bit, she's still good), Ryoma (a bit, he's still good), every Conquest-exclusive PC except Camilla and her retainers

[Sooks]

9 hours ago, Tenma said:

Honestly, before starting Revelations, I was expecting them to trickle in together. It sucks that it really creates an imbalance for the characters between the two nations as later join times really affect their performance--especially because Hoshido characters really lack any tanky units.

Yep me too!

9 hours ago, Tenma said:

But yea, you right tho LOL, I feel pretty obligated to use the royals.

That’s the power of Revelations 😉

I did that the only time I played through it, and it felt a little cool.

7 hours ago, Tenma said:

He was a huge liability for me and was one of the sole reasons why I kept restarting chapter 10 in CQ because he kept dying from unlucky crits and constantly missed his attacks. My judgement of him won't change even if he's different in Revelations LOL.

He isn’t, his luck still sucks.

[Ertrick36]

Definitely worse in Revelation: Odin, Nyx, Arthur, Effie... basically anyone that joins in the chapters after you recruit Camilla, sans of course the prepromoted units and some other exceptions.  Also Gunter.  In both BR and CQ you don't get an unpromoted unit any later than chapter 14, but in Revelation you're getting them as far into the game as 17 which is just excessive - even child units by that point automatically get offspring seals to ensure they match the rest of the army in strength.  Odin is just abysmal - they did him so dirty in Revelation, it's downright offensive.  And Gunter has his stats from when you left him off at Chapter 3, and by this point his stats are barely a match for the enemies you're encountering.

Worse in Revelation, but not as terrible a decrease in strength as previously mentioned ones: Benny (still can be a solid tank, but he kinda struggles a bit), Saizo, Selena, Beruka, Kagero, Orochi, Rinkah, Hana, Subaki, Elise, Hinoka.  You may question why I'm including units that are actually terrible such as Orochi or Rinkah.  Well, that's because honestly they weren't great in Birthright either, so it's not a significant decrease in strength - you're basically just making stinky trash even stinkier.  Selena and Beruka got shafted a bit, though - if you had to pick a sword-wielding retainer, go with Hinata, and really you only just need Camilla to be your axe monster.  I think you can still make something of Benny if you wanted to, but it'll be an uphill battle.  Saizo is actually still good, but he suffers a bit due to lower level join.  Elise suffers the same problem as most post-Camilla chapter units, but because she's a healer it doesn't matter quite as much.  Hinoka probably should've joined as a promoted unit, because I feel that contributes to her being kinda less potent - she's still viable, but you need a bit more effort than you do in BR to make her good.

Kinda the same performance: Most royal units, Oboro, Hinata, all neutral units (Kaze, Mozu, et al), Reina.  All the royal characters were pretty powerful to begin with, so the fact that they're the best units in Revelation is honestly no surprise.  Oboro had barely any competition with other units in Birthright, and because she joins at a reasonable time with good enough stats to be viable while many other units either stayed terrible or were made terrible there still isn't much for her to compete with.  Hinata is also sorta alright, but like in BR he's in a weird class given his stat spread.  Reina remains a fairly viable, if somewhat feeble, option, and it's hard to judge the neutral characters because they can appear at different points or have certain caveats about them that make the call hard to make whether they're better or worse in Revelation.

Actually better: Hayato, whichever Corrin retainer you get first, Keaton.  In BR Hayato starts as a level ONE unit.  He's just terrible in BR because of that.  But in Revelation, he starts at a solid level 9 and generally has the best stat spread out of all the mages apart from Leo, not particularly favoring or failing in any one stat.  Either Jakob or Felicia, if obtained first, will remain a fairly valuable asset in early game, and could be kept into late game - Jakob in particular can start as a healer until Sakura comes along and then switch to a combat role relatively easier than most units can.  Keaton, meanwhile, has the benefit of joining Revelation a chapter earlier than he would in Conquest, while also having the same stats as he would in Conquest.  Compound this with the fact that his class makes him a solid unit that can bend to fit any situation and that many non-royal units are just not great, and he's likely viable enough to be kept into endgame.

Substantially better: Silas, Sakura.  Silas is already a fairly solid unit in the other two paths, but in Revelation he stomps on everyone who joins the same chapter he joins (minus Elise, 'cuz the one thing he can't do is heal people).  For some reason he's supremely jacked 'cuz he starts at level 18 and thus is not only viable to bring into later chapters but you may actually see an improvement in your army's performance until you recruit the rest of the princes and princesses in the game.  Sakura has the unique benefit of having just a single healer to compete with - Corrin's retainer.  If Corrin's retainer is Jakob, you have all the incentive in the world to make her your exclusive healer, and no other viable healer comes around for another six chapters - plenty of opportunity to healbot like crazy to jack up her levels.  She's still pretty good when Felicia is your first retainer instead because Sakura's got a better stat spread that enables you to let her tank the occasional hit if either you need a bait or if you screw up, and that stat spread means she could actually fulfill a secondary combat role when it comes up (though E-rank weaponry as a promoted unit, egh).  Really, it just comes down to the fact that she has little competition.

Wait, they existed?: Flora, Fuga.  Okay, the latter doesn't appear in any path except Revelation, but honestly what can one make of a unit like Flora who is probably more similar to an offspring unit than a standard unit since she joins whenever the hell you get a maxed out turret (I think, don't remember for sure)?  I really wish they had her join earlier in the game, it's lame that one of Corrin's own retainers refuses to join until the tides of battle are already strongly in Corrin's favor.  By the time you get Flora most of your team will have been built, so really she's just good as a backup unit in case someone dies and you aren't inclined to reset to save them.

Lmao, literally dies a chapter after you recruit her: Scarlet.  Why even bother, Intelligent Systems?  Seriously, sod off with that shit.  And I mean, she's a good, solid unit, too!  Why shove that in my face only to toss it in the trash the very next moment?  This is why whenever I play the game with a save editor anymore I just edit the save so that she isn't dead, because her death was pointless and stupid and the story in Revelation just sucks in general so I really don't give a damn, lmao.

 

Really, the summary is that some units change greatly, some units stay the same, but for the most part you're gonna be using the princes and princesses unless you're challenging yourself through unit restriction.  For a normal playthrough, apart from the princes and princesses I'll probably just be using the units I already like (Oboro, Mozu, and maybe some 2nd Gen units like Shiro, Forrest, or Velouria).  If you want to do away with the princes and princesses, however, then there are some very clear winners and losers among the lot you recruit, and it seems like there's an obvious slant in favor of the Hoshidans.

It's a shame, too, because I had such a dramatically different vision for what Revelation was gonna be, mostly because of a severely misleading article about it; I thought it would have you recruit units not through normal means but rather through the accumulation of dragon vein points, so you would pick and choose who to use in any given playthrough.  And honestly, I feel like that would've been cooler than what we actually got.  I've become so much colder towards Revelation, I went from thinking it was good for what it is to despising the level design almost to an irrational degree, goddamn I hate Mr. Fuga's Wild Ride and the ice breaking and the moving platforms and the everything in this path that isn't Mokushu or the Destroyed Town.

[LJ_Reflet]

21 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

 And Gunter has his stats from when you left him off at Chapter 3, and by this point his stats are barely a match for the enemies you're encountering.

I actually found Gunter to be pretty underwhelming in Conquest as well, I'm ngl haha. Gunter has the benefit of joining early in Revelation, but his ridiculous growths do nothing for him LOL. So it's like it's not even that he's worse, it's like ... he's just bad overall LOL.

21 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

 You may question why I'm including units that are actually terrible such as Orochi or Rinkah.  Well, that's because honestly they weren't great in Birthright either, so it's not a significant decrease in strength - you're basically just making stinky trash even stinkier. 

The thing about Orochi tho, it's either her or Hayato because they're the only 2 natural tome users until Izana or if Corrin is in a magic class, and Orochi is more reliable (I heard Izana is good, but I never used him because of how late he joins). And she also has the upper hand in Birthright mainly because of the fact that Hayato joins at level 1 when your other units are probably at level 10+ or so. Because of that, I don't find her TERRIBLE, but she's so slow that she has to rely on OHKO-ing, which is highly unlikely and prevents her from being good/great. You just kind of use her because you kind of have no choice when it comes to magic. However, I do have to say, she was able to double the Stoneborn in chapter 21 and really came in clutch for me. But yes, she's terrible in Revelations so far LOL.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, Tenma said:

I actually found Gunter to be pretty underwhelming in Conquest as well, I'm ngl haha. Gunter has the benefit of joining early in Revelation, but his ridiculous growths do nothing for him LOL. So it's like it's not even that he's worse, it's like ... he's just bad overall LOL.

In Conquest he can at the very least gain support levels with Corrin - a better stat stick than in Rev at least.

1 hour ago, Tenma said:

The thing about Orochi tho, it's either her or Hayato because they're the only 2 natural tome users until Izana or if Corrin is in a magic class, and Orochi is more reliable (I heard Izana is good, but I never used him because of how late he joins). And she also has the upper hand in Birthright mainly because of the fact that Hayato joins at level 1 when your other units are probably at level 10+ or so. Because of that, I don't find her TERRIBLE, but she's so slow that she has to rely on OHKO-ing, which is highly unlikely and prevents her from being good/great. You just kind of use her because you kind of have no choice when it comes to magic.

If only there was a unit that had Seal Resistance - oh wait. There are still the magic kids - essentially Rhajat who, just like Nyx, can´t,hit the broad side of a barn but will double unless of course Orochi is her mom, where not only will she not hit, but she will also not double! The best choice for a mage in Birthright is probably promoting Sakura to Onmyoji and/or sticking a Flame Shuriken to Jakob/Felicia. Also +Mag Dragonstone Corrin for Res targeting and tanking. 

Thank god for DLC Witches and Dark Fliers (and Grandmasters).

Edited November 18, 2020 by Imuabicus

[Ertrick36]

4 hours ago, Tenma said:

The thing about Orochi tho, it's either her or Hayato because they're the only 2 natural tome users until Izana or if Corrin is in a magic class, and Orochi is more reliable (I heard Izana is good, but I never used him because of how late he joins). And she also has the upper hand in Birthright mainly because of the fact that Hayato joins at level 1 when your other units are probably at level 10+ or so. Because of that, I don't find her TERRIBLE, but she's so slow that she has to rely on OHKO-ing, which is highly unlikely and prevents her from being good/great. You just kind of use her because you kind of have no choice when it comes to magic. However, I do have to say, she was able to double the Stoneborn in chapter 21 and really came in clutch for me. But yes, she's terrible in Revelations so far LOL.

I guess what I'm getting at is... mages suck in this game.  And it feels like it was a deliberate reaction to how OP dark mages were in Awakening.

But really, if the best mage one can muster is a unit that can neither tank more than one or two hits nor can reliably ORKO enemies, then maybe it's better to just not use mages at all and rely on exploiting natural unit weaknesses with specialized weapons that you're given (or use ninja Saizo to soften them up).  I mean, it sure as hell wouldn't be the first time in the series that excluding certain class roles was a viable strat or "Horse Emblem" wouldn't have become a term.

3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

The best choice for a mage in Birthright is probably promoting Sakura to Onmyoji and/or sticking a Flame Shuriken to Jakob/Felicia. Also +Mag Dragonstone Corrin for Res targeting and tanking.

You can also have Felicia or Jakob class-change to Strategist right from the get-go, assuming you are willing to sacrifice the only Heart Seal you have available at the beginning of the route split.  Well, and the money you'd need to spend on the Heart Seal.

[Shadow Mir]

13 hours ago, Tenma said:

The thing about Orochi tho, it's either her or Hayato because they're the only 2 natural tome users until Izana or if Corrin is in a magic class, and Orochi is more reliable (I heard Izana is good, but I never used him because of how late he joins). And she also has the upper hand in Birthright mainly because of the fact that Hayato joins at level 1 when your other units are probably at level 10+ or so. Because of that, I don't find her TERRIBLE, but she's so slow that she has to rely on OHKO-ing, which is highly unlikely and prevents her from being good/great. You just kind of use her because you kind of have no choice when it comes to magic. However, I do have to say, she was able to double the Stoneborn in chapter 21 and really came in clutch for me. But yes, she's terrible in Revelations so far LOL.

Doesn't really change the fact that both are terrible. I mean, it's rather telling that I've gotten better results out of gimmicky child setups that involve them being mages than with either of Orochi or Hayato.

12 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

If only there was a unit that had Seal Resistance - oh wait. There are still the magic kids - essentially Rhajat who, just like Nyx, can´t,hit the broad side of a barn but will double unless of course Orochi is her mom, where not only will she not hit, but she will also not double! The best choice for a mage in Birthright is probably promoting Sakura to Onmyoji and/or sticking a Flame Shuriken to Jakob/Felicia. Also +Mag Dragonstone Corrin for Res targeting and tanking. 

Thank god for DLC Witches and Dark Fliers (and Grandmasters).

Seal Resistance would be a valid point were it not for the class it's tied to sucking. Also, imho, Grandmaster is rather underwhelming for how much of a pain in the ass it is to get the item that allows you to access it. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I guess what I'm getting at is... mages suck in this game.

Odin and Ophelia would like to know your location - unless you meant Birthright as a standalone.

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

You can also have Felicia or Jakob class-change to Strategist right from the get-go, assuming you are willing to sacrifice the only Heart Seal you have available at the beginning of the route split.  Well, and the money you'd need to spend on the Heart Seal.

The first Heart Seal is unfortunately always booked by Mozu. I tried not doing but well... it hasn´t happened yet.

17 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Seal Resistance would be a valid point were it not for the class it's tied to sucking. Also, imho, Grandmaster is rather underwhelming for how much of a pain in the ass it is to get the item that allows you to access it. 

That was more directed toward Rinkah being Rinkah. Oni line is fine, but their only natural representative is just sp bad. Being a Lv 1 Grandmaster is better than being a lv 1 Diviner.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Being a Lv 1 Grandmaster is better than being a lv 1 Diviner.

Have fun dealing with an evasive boss that only one of your three characters can do anything resembling damage to.

On 11/17/2020 at 10:37 AM, Ertrick36 said:

Worse in Revelation, but not as terrible a decrease in strength as previously mentioned ones: Benny (still can be a solid tank, but he kinda struggles a bit), Saizo, Selena, Beruka, Kagero, Orochi, Rinkah, Hana, Subaki, Elise, Hinoka.  You may question why I'm including units that are actually terrible such as Orochi or Rinkah.  Well, that's because honestly they weren't great in Birthright either, so it's not a significant decrease in strength - you're basically just making stinky trash even stinkier.  Selena and Beruka got shafted a bit, though - if you had to pick a sword-wielding retainer, go with Hinata, and really you only just need Camilla to be your axe monster.  I think you can still make something of Benny if you wanted to, but it'll be an uphill battle.  Saizo is actually still good, but he suffers a bit due to lower level join.  Elise suffers the same problem as most post-Camilla chapter units, but because she's a healer it doesn't matter quite as much.  Hinoka probably should've joined as a promoted unit, because I feel that contributes to her being kinda less potent - she's still viable, but you need a bit more effort than you do in BR to make her good.

I would say Subaki's slightly better than in Birthright, where he was literally rendered obsolete after his joining chapter.

On 11/16/2020 at 11:27 PM, Tenma said:

And I'm ngl, Arthur  p i s s e d  m e  o f f  oh my gOD.

He was a huge liability for me and was one of the sole reasons why I kept restarting chapter 10 in CQ because he kept dying from unlucky crits and constantly missed his attacks. My judgement of him won't change even if he's different in Revelations LOL.

The moral of this story? Axe infantry are liable to suck harder than Little Mac's recovery, with very few exceptions. None of which are in this game, mind.

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

That was more directed toward Rinkah being Rinkah. Oni line is fine, but their only natural representative is just sp bad.

Even without her in the picture, I find it hard to find Oni as a good class line for anyone.