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Benice

Rate the unit- Three houses, Day 41: Master post

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Thanks to all who participated and helped in these threads! This last one is for people who want to see Hapi's score. I also put in links to all of the threads to make it easier for people to find certain units!

 

Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding and no stat booster items

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Dimtri: 9.14

Byleth: 9.05

Edelgard: 9.00

Claude: 8.977

Felix: 8.625

Lysithea: 8.472

Petra: 8.34

Leonie: 8.2

Jeritza: 8.2

Ferdinand: 7.78

Catherine: 7.7556

Sylvain: 7.66

Balthus: 7.5

Hapi: 7.35

Ingrid: 7.34

Hilda: 7.31

Yuri: 7.28

Seteth: 7.2273

Bernadetta: 7.125

Linhardt: 7.11

Marianne: 6.9769

Mercedes: 6.756

Constance: 6.6

Shamir: 6.65

Dorothea: 6.375

Cyril: 6.0454

Dedue: 5.8571

Alois: 5.75

Annette: 5.5375

Hubert: 5.525

Ignatz: 4.88

Flayn: 4.583

Caspar: 4.32

Hanneman: 4.18

Lorenz: 3.8077

Raphael: 3.7273

Ashe: 3.69 (nice)

Manuela: 3.1

Gilbert: 2.27

Anna: 1.978

 

 

Normal: Black Eagles

Bold: Blue Lions

Itallics: Golden deer

Purple: Faculty

Black: Anna

Boldunderscoreditallicsgreen: DLC


Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94

Average score for Blue lions: 6.82

Average score for Golden Deer: 6.543

Average score for Faculty: 5.9

Average score for Ashen Wolves: 7.18

Average score for Anna: 1.978

Edited by Benice

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If we’re counting Byleth as faculty now, the average score for faculty needs to be updated, @Benice It would become 5.89 blah blah blah which rounds to 5.9.

And thanks to everyone who helped out! It was fun to rate everyone, since I’m already posting here. Even if it did get sorta tiring eventually.

Edited by Sooks

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2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

If we’re counting Byleth as faculty now, the average score for faculty needs to be updated, @Benice It would become 5.89 blah blah blah which rounds to 5.9.

I'll get on that right away! Thanks.

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This was a lot of fun to do. I'm glad that we all had a chance to discuss how we felt about the characters in question. I know that our opinions varied but all in all this is still great insight to how these characters performed.

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This was a good series of threads. I enjoyed it greatly, and I think everyone else did, too.

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Thank you to everyone who participated!  Lurked (given I'm not a hard 'gameplay' focused person) but found myself agreeing with a lot of the insights and welcoming new parts I hadn't considered.

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I really enjoyed this, thanks again to all who put it on. And now, for my own master list!

Spoiler

10: Byleth

9: Petra, Felix, Claude

8: Dimitri, Sylvain, Hilda, Marianne, Leonie, Balthus

7: Bernadetta, Annette, Ingrid, Lysithea, Catherine, Constance, Hapi

6: Mercedes, Ignatz, Seteth, Shamir

5: Dorothea, Dedue, Lorenz, Cyril, Hanneman, Alois, Yuri

4: Ashe

3: Raphael, Flayn, Manuela, Gilbert

2:

1:

Unranked: Edelgard, Hubert, Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, Jeritza, Anna

In terms of overall distribution, it's not the weirdest thing. Ashe sitting alone at 4, especially with so many just below at 3, is kind of odd. I was expecting 7 to be the fullest (AKA the mode), but it's actually tied with 5? So that happened. No 1s or 2s, but I believe a few units (whom we didn't consider) can fall into these areas.

In fact, how about some modifications? I'll add some tentative ratings, and add "scare quotes" around the ones I missed, or who weren't considered. Note that Jeritza and Anna will remain unranked, as I don't have enough experience with them to judge fairly.

Spoiler

10: Byleth

9: "Edelgard", Petra, Felix, Claude

8: "Ferdinand", Dimitri, Sylvain, Hilda, Marianne, Leonie, Balthus

7: Bernadetta, Annette, Ingrid, Lysithea, Catherine, Constance, Hapi

6: "Hubert", "Linhardt", Mercedes, Ignatz, Seteth, Shamir

5: Dorothea, Dedue, Lorenz, Cyril, Hanneman, Alois, Yuri, "SS!Edelgard"

4: Ashe, "SS!Catherine", "SS!Hilda", "WC!Dedue"

3: "Caspar", Raphael, Flayn, Manuela, Gilbert, "VW!Ashe", "AM!Lorenz"

2: "SS!Hubert", "SS!Cyril"

1: "CF!Flayn"

Unranked: Jeritza, Anna

As you can see, I've added tentative rankings for the Black Eagles whom I missed (since I didn't join the rating train right away). I also threw in a few limited-availability instances of certain characters, especially on the Silver Snow route. The oddest-looking one may be "WC!Dedue", but this is referring to instances of Dedue where he doesn't rejoin after the timeskip.

Ah, but we can go further! What if I were to go further? Say, relate my own rankings to the group averages? I'll be using the following marks: (++) if my rating is higher than AVE + 1.5, (+) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE + 0.5, (=) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 0.5, (-) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 1.5, and (- -) otherwise. Unranked units, and units who were never considered, will receive no marking. So, let's take a look!

Spoiler

10: Byleth (+)

9: "Edelgard (=)", Petra (+), Felix (=), Claude (=)

8: "Ferdinand (=)", Dimitri (-), Sylvain (=), Hilda (+), Marianne (+), Leonie (=), Balthus (=)

7: Bernadetta (=), Annette (+), Ingrid (=), Lysithea (-), Catherine (-), Constance (=), Hapi (=)

6: "Hubert (=)", "Linhardt (-)", Mercedes (-), Ignatz (+), Seteth (-), Shamir (-)

5: Dorothea (-), Dedue (-), Lorenz (+), Cyril (-), Hanneman (+), Alois (-), Yuri (- -), "SS!Edelgard"

4: Ashe (=), "SS!Catherine", "SS!Hilda", "WC!Dedue"

3: "Caspar (-)", Raphael (-), Flayn (- -), Manuela (=), Gilbert (+), "VW!Ashe", "AM!Lorenz"

2: "SS!Hubert", "SS!Cyril"

1: "CF!Flayn"

Unranked: Jeritza, Anna

And, for my final act? Why, re-categorizing the characters by whether I overrated them, underrated them, or was roughly with the group consensus, as follows:

Spoiler

++:

+: Byleth, Petra, Annette, Hilda, Lorenz, Ignatz, Marianne, Hanneman, Gilbert

=: "Edelgard", "Ferdinand", "Hubert", Bernadetta, Felix, Sylvain, Ashe, Ingrid, Claude, Leonie, Manuela, Balthus, Constance, Hapi

-: "Linhardt", "Caspar", Dorothea, Dimitri, Dedue, Mercedes, Raphael, Lysithea, Cyril, Catherine, Shamir, Alois, Seteth

- -: Flayn, Yuri

Huh. I guess I'm more negative than I thought. I had really expected a (++) unit, but even my most "overrated" unit, Annette, wasn't quite 1.5 above average. Combining the (-) and (- -), there are more units I "underrated" than got about equal. House-wise, I show some (unwitting) favoritism to the Golden Deer - because they were my first house, perhaps? While I'm not especially kind to Church units - only Hanneman, Gilbert, and Manuela weren't "underrated". This might be due to my taste for availability and versatility, versus being stronger within constrained roles. But I don't know, really.

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I kinda stopped posting after the Golden Deer students cause I never really used anyone in the faculty or DLC, but I had a lot of fun doing this!

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I quietly read through each of these, though I couldn't contribute b/c I only played through 3H three times and don't feel like any more, so I'm a total 3H meta novice. I enjoyed reading the conversation anyhow, unit analysis is always fun to consider. Not entirely sure why some people placed more attention than I expected on Authority (Charm is more understandable), but I'm not going to question it.

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Here's my master list:

Spoiler

10: Edelgard
9.5: Dimitri
9: Claude
8.5: Byleth, Catherine
8: Dorothea, Petra, Mercedes, Leonie
7.5: Felix
7: Sylvain, Ingrid, Hilda, Lysithea, Marianne, Yuri, Hapi
6.5: Ferdinand, Jeritza, Constance
6: Shamir
5.5: Dedue, Linhardt, Seteth, Balthus
5: Bernadetta, Hubert
4: Annette, Cyril
3.5: Ashe, Lorenz, Raphael, Ignatz, Hanneman
3: Flayn, Manuela, Alois
2.5: Caspar
1.5: Anna
1: Gilbert

The average is between 5 and 6, which is what I was hoping for (was aiming for 5.5, but it ended up a bit higher). 60% of the scores were in the 3.5-7 range.

I think @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate has a cool idea of looking at where I departed from the Serenes consensus, so here goes. Using the same convention: "I'll be using the following marks: (++) if my rating is higher than AVE + 1.5, (+) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE + 0.5, (=) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 0.5, (-) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 1.5, and (- -) otherwise."

Spoiler

++: Dorothea
+: Mercedes, Catherine, Edelgard
=: Anna, Manuela, Ashe, Raphael, Lorenz, Constance, Marianne, Yuri, Hilda, Ingrid, Hapi, Leonie, Petra, Claude, Dimitri
-: Gilbert, Hanneman, Ignatz, Hubert, Shamir, Sylvain, Ferdinand, Lysithea, Felix, Byleth
- -: Caspar, Flayn, Annette, Alois, Cyril, Linhardt, Bernadetta, Seteth, Balthus, Jeritza

Obviously I score a bit lower than average, with 10 characters I rated significantly lower than the consensus here and only one I rated significantly higher (and even that one was only barely). I don't see any consistent differences by house (the Eagles show account for 2 of the 4 I think are underrated here, but also showed up four times in the - - group). I'm definitely a bit tougher than average on characters who join later, with everyone who joined after Hanneman/Manuela getting lower scores from me than average.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

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Cool stuff.

I will say as a nitpick...  the Dorothea's 6.37 score is a bit wacky.  It's known that mine & Dayni's evaluations probably weren't counted because the Petra thread went up super-early for whatever reason and the score wasn't updated afterward, but I can't get the average to come out to the alleged result even given that.  Not sure if votes were quietly tossed due to not qualifying as enough explanation, or there were late edits, or what, but I come up with 6.67 as the average for Dorothea, or ~6.5 if various "late" (but not actually late) votes are tossed or some shorter votes are tossed.  The shorter votes tend to be 7/10s so wouldn't have a huge effect regardless.  Of course, basically everything in decimals is a rounding error - I think I agree with the tiermaker chart posted yesterday that unless you have a huge number of raters, the closest you're going to get is to any accuracy is within a point for a fan consensus.  So maybe not a concern after all!

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1 hour ago, SnowFire said:

Cool stuff.

I will say as a nitpick...  the Dorothea's 6.37 score is a bit wacky.  It's known that mine & Dayni's evaluations probably weren't counted because the Petra thread went up super-early for whatever reason and the score wasn't updated afterward, but I can't get the average to come out to the alleged result even given that.  Not sure if votes were quietly tossed due to not qualifying as enough explanation, or there were late edits, or what, but I come up with 6.67 as the average for Dorothea, or ~6.5 if various "late" (but not actually late) votes are tossed or some shorter votes are tossed.  The shorter votes tend to be 7/10s so wouldn't have a huge effect regardless.  Of course, basically everything in decimals is a rounding error - I think I agree with the tiermaker chart posted yesterday that unless you have a huge number of raters, the closest you're going to get is to any accuracy is within a point for a fan consensus.  So maybe not a concern after all!

Seconding this. I counted 14 ratings (with your own as the latest), with a sum of 93. So the average value was 6.643. If your 8 is excluded, then it's 85/13, or 6.538. Interestingly, if this change were to hold, Dorothea would move down to (- -) for me; and, if I'm not mistaken, to (+) for @Dark Holy Elf's list. Speaking of which...

I'm a fan of the "listing the deviations" spreading! Comparing our lists, it's funny that, while we both tended to underrate units, our overs and unders are almost the opposite. Three among the four you "overrated" (Dorothea, Mercedes, Catherine), I "underrated". Similarly, five out of the nine I "overrated" (Byleth, Annette, Ignatz, Hanneman, Gilbert) were ones that you "underrated". But of course, the differences in opinion are what make these sorts of lists fun. If everyone agreed on this stuff, there'd be no point, right?

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@Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Yep! Statistically that's almost to be expected: highish votes from one person need to be balanced by lowish votes from another. Although really our (+) and (-) groups don't actually deviate from the averages that far anyway. Like... our scores for Hanneman were only 1.5 apart, which isn't really a significant disagreement in my eyes... we're both around 0.75 off from his average, just in different directions. The biggest disagreement I spotted was Annette (you gave her 7, I gave her 4), who's a bit of an odd duck as a unit... it really depends how much you value her unique and unusual strengths (Dust and the dual rally), and that's inherently highly subjective.

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Reposting this here where it's more fitting:

serenesrankedlist.png.39d818e87a1ac31dea

Hapi should move one slot to the left by the final count (either because I miscounted or because her rating was changed by the last grade posted on the thread), but I'm too lazy to remake it just for that.

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On maddening difficulty, I'd give Master Post a 7/10. Master post has great stats and some very useful boons, especially in authority, but they arrive near the end; limiting their usefulness in the game overall.

🥁

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