Benice Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) Thanks to all who participated and helped in these threads! This last one is for people who want to see Hapi's score. I also put in links to all of the threads to make it easier for people to find certain units! Rules - Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.) - Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning. - Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help. +/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more. - Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~! -The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage." -The ranking assumes no grinding and no stat booster items - Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.." - Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please! -We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea." -The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable. Scores: Dimtri: 9.14 Byleth: 9.05 Edelgard: 9.00 Claude: 8.977 Felix: 8.625 Lysithea: 8.472 Petra: 8.34 Leonie: 8.2 Jeritza: 8.2 Ferdinand: 7.78 Catherine: 7.7556 Sylvain: 7.66 Balthus: 7.5 Hapi: 7.35 Ingrid: 7.34 Hilda: 7.31 Yuri: 7.28 Seteth: 7.2273 Bernadetta: 7.125 Linhardt: 7.11 Marianne: 6.9769 Mercedes: 6.756 Constance: 6.6 Shamir: 6.65 Dorothea: 6.375 Cyril: 6.0454 Dedue: 5.8571 Alois: 5.75 Annette: 5.5375 Hubert: 5.525 Ignatz: 4.88 Flayn: 4.583 Caspar: 4.32 Hanneman: 4.18 Lorenz: 3.8077 Raphael: 3.7273 Ashe: 3.69 (nice) Manuela: 3.1 Gilbert: 2.27 Anna: 1.978 Normal: Black Eagles Bold: Blue Lions Itallics: Golden deer Purple: Faculty Black: Anna Boldunderscoreditallicsgreen: DLC Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94 Average score for Blue lions: 6.82 Average score for Golden Deer: 6.543 Average score for Faculty: 5.9 Average score for Ashen Wolves: 7.18 Average score for Anna: 1.978 Edited November 21, 2020 by Benice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) If we’re counting Byleth as faculty now, the average score for faculty needs to be updated, @Benice It would become 5.89 blah blah blah which rounds to 5.9. And thanks to everyone who helped out! It was fun to rate everyone, since I’m already posting here. Even if it did get sorta tiring eventually. Edited November 21, 2020 by Sooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benice Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sooks said: If we’re counting Byleth as faculty now, the average score for faculty needs to be updated, @Benice It would become 5.89 blah blah blah which rounds to 5.9. I'll get on that right away! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Thanks again! Appreciate the links, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barren Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 This was a lot of fun to do. I'm glad that we all had a chance to discuss how we felt about the characters in question. I know that our opinions varied but all in all this is still great insight to how these characters performed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 It was very fun and enlightening to read too! Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3xandr3 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 This was a good series of threads. I enjoyed it greatly, and I think everyone else did, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradeelav Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Thank you to everyone who participated! Lurked (given I'm not a hard 'gameplay' focused person) but found myself agreeing with a lot of the insights and welcoming new parts I hadn't considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I really enjoyed this, thanks again to all who put it on. And now, for my own master list! Spoiler 10: Byleth 9: Petra, Felix, Claude 8: Dimitri, Sylvain, Hilda, Marianne, Leonie, Balthus 7: Bernadetta, Annette, Ingrid, Lysithea, Catherine, Constance, Hapi 6: Mercedes, Ignatz, Seteth, Shamir 5: Dorothea, Dedue, Lorenz, Cyril, Hanneman, Alois, Yuri 4: Ashe 3: Raphael, Flayn, Manuela, Gilbert 2: 1: Unranked: Edelgard, Hubert, Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, Jeritza, Anna In terms of overall distribution, it's not the weirdest thing. Ashe sitting alone at 4, especially with so many just below at 3, is kind of odd. I was expecting 7 to be the fullest (AKA the mode), but it's actually tied with 5? So that happened. No 1s or 2s, but I believe a few units (whom we didn't consider) can fall into these areas. In fact, how about some modifications? I'll add some tentative ratings, and add "scare quotes" around the ones I missed, or who weren't considered. Note that Jeritza and Anna will remain unranked, as I don't have enough experience with them to judge fairly. Spoiler 10: Byleth 9: "Edelgard", Petra, Felix, Claude 8: "Ferdinand", Dimitri, Sylvain, Hilda, Marianne, Leonie, Balthus 7: Bernadetta, Annette, Ingrid, Lysithea, Catherine, Constance, Hapi 6: "Hubert", "Linhardt", Mercedes, Ignatz, Seteth, Shamir 5: Dorothea, Dedue, Lorenz, Cyril, Hanneman, Alois, Yuri, "SS!Edelgard" 4: Ashe, "SS!Catherine", "SS!Hilda", "WC!Dedue" 3: "Caspar", Raphael, Flayn, Manuela, Gilbert, "VW!Ashe", "AM!Lorenz" 2: "SS!Hubert", "SS!Cyril" 1: "CF!Flayn" Unranked: Jeritza, Anna As you can see, I've added tentative rankings for the Black Eagles whom I missed (since I didn't join the rating train right away). I also threw in a few limited-availability instances of certain characters, especially on the Silver Snow route. The oddest-looking one may be "WC!Dedue", but this is referring to instances of Dedue where he doesn't rejoin after the timeskip. Ah, but we can go further! What if I were to go further? Say, relate my own rankings to the group averages? I'll be using the following marks: (++) if my rating is higher than AVE + 1.5, (+) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE + 0.5, (=) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 0.5, (-) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 1.5, and (- -) otherwise. Unranked units, and units who were never considered, will receive no marking. So, let's take a look! Spoiler 10: Byleth (+) 9: "Edelgard (=)", Petra (+), Felix (=), Claude (=) 8: "Ferdinand (=)", Dimitri (-), Sylvain (=), Hilda (+), Marianne (+), Leonie (=), Balthus (=) 7: Bernadetta (=), Annette (+), Ingrid (=), Lysithea (-), Catherine (-), Constance (=), Hapi (=) 6: "Hubert (=)", "Linhardt (-)", Mercedes (-), Ignatz (+), Seteth (-), Shamir (-) 5: Dorothea (-), Dedue (-), Lorenz (+), Cyril (-), Hanneman (+), Alois (-), Yuri (- -), "SS!Edelgard" 4: Ashe (=), "SS!Catherine", "SS!Hilda", "WC!Dedue" 3: "Caspar (-)", Raphael (-), Flayn (- -), Manuela (=), Gilbert (+), "VW!Ashe", "AM!Lorenz" 2: "SS!Hubert", "SS!Cyril" 1: "CF!Flayn" Unranked: Jeritza, Anna And, for my final act? Why, re-categorizing the characters by whether I overrated them, underrated them, or was roughly with the group consensus, as follows: Spoiler ++: +: Byleth, Petra, Annette, Hilda, Lorenz, Ignatz, Marianne, Hanneman, Gilbert =: "Edelgard", "Ferdinand", "Hubert", Bernadetta, Felix, Sylvain, Ashe, Ingrid, Claude, Leonie, Manuela, Balthus, Constance, Hapi -: "Linhardt", "Caspar", Dorothea, Dimitri, Dedue, Mercedes, Raphael, Lysithea, Cyril, Catherine, Shamir, Alois, Seteth - -: Flayn, Yuri Huh. I guess I'm more negative than I thought. I had really expected a (++) unit, but even my most "overrated" unit, Annette, wasn't quite 1.5 above average. Combining the (-) and (- -), there are more units I "underrated" than got about equal. House-wise, I show some (unwitting) favoritism to the Golden Deer - because they were my first house, perhaps? While I'm not especially kind to Church units - only Hanneman, Gilbert, and Manuela weren't "underrated". This might be due to my taste for availability and versatility, versus being stronger within constrained roles. But I don't know, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ_Reflet Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I kinda stopped posting after the Golden Deer students cause I never really used anyone in the faculty or DLC, but I had a lot of fun doing this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I quietly read through each of these, though I couldn't contribute b/c I only played through 3H three times and don't feel like any more, so I'm a total 3H meta novice. I enjoyed reading the conversation anyhow, unit analysis is always fun to consider. Not entirely sure why some people placed more attention than I expected on Authority (Charm is more understandable), but I'm not going to question it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Here's my master list: Spoiler 10: Edelgard 9.5: Dimitri 9: Claude 8.5: Byleth, Catherine 8: Dorothea, Petra, Mercedes, Leonie 7.5: Felix 7: Sylvain, Ingrid, Hilda, Lysithea, Marianne, Yuri, Hapi 6.5: Ferdinand, Jeritza, Constance 6: Shamir 5.5: Dedue, Linhardt, Seteth, Balthus 5: Bernadetta, Hubert 4: Annette, Cyril 3.5: Ashe, Lorenz, Raphael, Ignatz, Hanneman 3: Flayn, Manuela, Alois 2.5: Caspar 1.5: Anna 1: Gilbert The average is between 5 and 6, which is what I was hoping for (was aiming for 5.5, but it ended up a bit higher). 60% of the scores were in the 3.5-7 range. I think @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate has a cool idea of looking at where I departed from the Serenes consensus, so here goes. Using the same convention: "I'll be using the following marks: (++) if my rating is higher than AVE + 1.5, (+) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE + 0.5, (=) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 0.5, (-) if my ranking is otherwise higher than AVE - 1.5, and (- -) otherwise." Spoiler ++: Dorothea +: Mercedes, Catherine, Edelgard =: Anna, Manuela, Ashe, Raphael, Lorenz, Constance, Marianne, Yuri, Hilda, Ingrid, Hapi, Leonie, Petra, Claude, Dimitri -: Gilbert, Hanneman, Ignatz, Hubert, Shamir, Sylvain, Ferdinand, Lysithea, Felix, Byleth - -: Caspar, Flayn, Annette, Alois, Cyril, Linhardt, Bernadetta, Seteth, Balthus, Jeritza Obviously I score a bit lower than average, with 10 characters I rated significantly lower than the consensus here and only one I rated significantly higher (and even that one was only barely). I don't see any consistent differences by house (the Eagles show account for 2 of the 4 I think are underrated here, but also showed up four times in the - - group). I'm definitely a bit tougher than average on characters who join later, with everyone who joined after Hanneman/Manuela getting lower scores from me than average. Edited November 22, 2020 by Dark Holy Elf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFire Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Cool stuff. I will say as a nitpick... the Dorothea's 6.37 score is a bit wacky. It's known that mine & Dayni's evaluations probably weren't counted because the Petra thread went up super-early for whatever reason and the score wasn't updated afterward, but I can't get the average to come out to the alleged result even given that. Not sure if votes were quietly tossed due to not qualifying as enough explanation, or there were late edits, or what, but I come up with 6.67 as the average for Dorothea, or ~6.5 if various "late" (but not actually late) votes are tossed or some shorter votes are tossed. The shorter votes tend to be 7/10s so wouldn't have a huge effect regardless. Of course, basically everything in decimals is a rounding error - I think I agree with the tiermaker chart posted yesterday that unless you have a huge number of raters, the closest you're going to get is to any accuracy is within a point for a fan consensus. So maybe not a concern after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, SnowFire said: Cool stuff. I will say as a nitpick... the Dorothea's 6.37 score is a bit wacky. It's known that mine & Dayni's evaluations probably weren't counted because the Petra thread went up super-early for whatever reason and the score wasn't updated afterward, but I can't get the average to come out to the alleged result even given that. Not sure if votes were quietly tossed due to not qualifying as enough explanation, or there were late edits, or what, but I come up with 6.67 as the average for Dorothea, or ~6.5 if various "late" (but not actually late) votes are tossed or some shorter votes are tossed. The shorter votes tend to be 7/10s so wouldn't have a huge effect regardless. Of course, basically everything in decimals is a rounding error - I think I agree with the tiermaker chart posted yesterday that unless you have a huge number of raters, the closest you're going to get is to any accuracy is within a point for a fan consensus. So maybe not a concern after all! Seconding this. I counted 14 ratings (with your own as the latest), with a sum of 93. So the average value was 6.643. If your 8 is excluded, then it's 85/13, or 6.538. Interestingly, if this change were to hold, Dorothea would move down to (- -) for me; and, if I'm not mistaken, to (+) for @Dark Holy Elf's list. Speaking of which... I'm a fan of the "listing the deviations" spreading! Comparing our lists, it's funny that, while we both tended to underrate units, our overs and unders are almost the opposite. Three among the four you "overrated" (Dorothea, Mercedes, Catherine), I "underrated". Similarly, five out of the nine I "overrated" (Byleth, Annette, Ignatz, Hanneman, Gilbert) were ones that you "underrated". But of course, the differences in opinion are what make these sorts of lists fun. If everyone agreed on this stuff, there'd be no point, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Yep! Statistically that's almost to be expected: highish votes from one person need to be balanced by lowish votes from another. Although really our (+) and (-) groups don't actually deviate from the averages that far anyway. Like... our scores for Hanneman were only 1.5 apart, which isn't really a significant disagreement in my eyes... we're both around 0.75 off from his average, just in different directions. The biggest disagreement I spotted was Annette (you gave her 7, I gave her 4), who's a bit of an odd duck as a unit... it really depends how much you value her unique and unusual strengths (Dust and the dual rally), and that's inherently highly subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Reposting this here where it's more fitting: Hapi should move one slot to the left by the final count (either because I miscounted or because her rating was changed by the last grade posted on the thread), but I'm too lazy to remake it just for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On maddening difficulty, I'd give Master Post a 7/10. Master post has great stats and some very useful boons, especially in authority, but they arrive near the end; limiting their usefulness in the game overall. 🥁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drattakbowser Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Excuse me, someone can pinned this page ? I was totally lost to find this page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirErrant Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 12/4/2020 at 11:12 AM, drattakbowser said: Excuse me, someone can pinned this page ? I was totally lost to find this page. Lol, I was just about to ask this. The character posts have been really helpful for my next Azure Moon playthrough, by the way, thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benice Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 9:13 AM, SirErrant said: Lol, I was just about to ask this. The character posts have been really helpful for my next Azure Moon playthrough, by the way, thanks guys! I suppose that we should probably ping a mod! @Integrity , if you deem fit, would you mind doing the honors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punished Dayni Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) I've a few things to do for this, sadly I'm a bit late to put my ratings in the right threads so I'll put them here Spoiler Part 1: Getting back to who I missed Spoiler Flayn Spoiler Flayn is kind of a fishy unit to work with, partly because she ends up underlevelled to her arrival, but I actually am not annoyed by her as a character. Flayn looks upon her stats with fondness. Spoiler Flayn has a statline that is pretty unfortunate. She starts at Level 11, so she has elevated bases, but not by much. Her biggest boon is her 15+55% Mag and 19+50% Res, making her a solid enough magic user and also good at taking those hits, better than most units. 8/7+25% Str/Def are just plain bad, limiting what she can do in those options, while 28+25% HP is unfortunate for her due to the impact on her magic bulk too. 15+45% Cha and 12+45% Dex are both pretty solid, not complaints for these numbers so much as worried about the others. Also her Spd at 9+35% is also poor, tending to leave her doubled, while 8+15% Luk is actually awful and actually has implications for her magical accuracy, though that is somewhat limited by her spell's accuracy. Her Strengths and Weaknesses are pretty short. Strengths in Faith and Lances is alright enough for some of the class access in this game, with C+ Lances giving one of her combat arts already, while Faith is just nice with her spell list, while Weaknesses in Armour and Riding don't seem like much initially, her Riding weakness limits her access to the magic cavalry classes, which is unfortunate for one potential utility later on. Her Budding Talent is Reason is a good choice unless you're avoiding magic entirely and it's not even for the Seal Magic, which I still found some utility in Maddening for. Her magic list is pretty good, but nothing amazing. Reason has Wind, Fire, Cutting Gale and Excalibur, which is an alright list with effectiveness and lower weight for her. Faith has H + N, Restore, Rescue and Fortify, which is a pretty interesting combo, because she lacks Recover or Physic, impacting her use of her crest, but she's also a nice easy Restore option for GD if you don't recruit out of house and is one of two units with Rescue without DLC, with the other being Bernadetta it makes her the easiest access, but her issue is that she doesn't have much access to high movement due to her bane in Riding and a lack of flying magic outside the DLC, with Fortify just being nice to have unless you're focusing on low HP builds (which is not the same as Battalion builds). Her personal, Lily's Poise, reduces damage allies take by 3 in combat, which is actually pretty nice and with Maddening can be even more impactful for your slower units as it can make Grapplers in particular less scary with up to -12 damage being pretty significant. Her crest is Cethleann, which adds 5 to healing magic 50% of the time, which isn't amazing but can be useful, though I haven't seen any hint it affects Fortify in particular. Her ability list is unremarkable. She has Hit and Run (not all that great when she's a mage who doesn't really have mount access) and Frozen Lance (pretty good on her magic, shame it's A rank) in Lances, while her Authority skills are Rally Luck and Battalion Renewal (both blah) Flayn coming into your party gets you access to Caduceus, which adds range to magic and heals the user, which is alright enough even if it's not Thyrsus. Of course, you can use her essentially at base if you know what you're doing for that paralogue, which is preferable in CF where she'll leave on the route split. Her battalion is also pretty good for stats, even if it's A rank. I'm pretty sure she's also one of the units who gets a guaranteed 2 stats per level, unlike the rest of the Church units. How did I find her? Spoiler In VW, she was quite the powerhouse in terms of magic stats, with 42 Mag, though aside from that and a more than solid 37 Res and 38 Cha she wasn't all that noteworthy stat wise, with 24 Spd limiting her damage dealing, 15 Luk/Def hurting her in their own ways and as for masteries she only got Mage and Priest, with Gremory rounding things off. She got A Reason/Faith, C+ Flying and B+ Authorty, which was disappointing when I realised flying magic wasn't available. In CF, she died. In AM, she had a similar end but . Her stats weren't so hot, with 34 Mag being weak compared to VW, alongside pretty much all other stats being lower except for a higher Res at 40. She also mastered Pegasus Knight and Warlock as well as Mage/Priest, while getting A+ Reason and A Faith/Authority In SS, I ended up using her a bunch as I focused on the church units. Compared to AM weapon levels are similar, but with B lances and her masteries are the same. Her stats were better though, with 41 Mag, 40 Res, 37 Cha, 25 Spd, but there's no major improvements. All three reached level 44. In Maddening, I actually used her in Part 1. And she was pretty solid. Hitting Level 30 and mastering only the intermediate classes and Noble, reaching A Faith, B+ Authority and B Reason. Stat wise, she did seem in line with the others, though 21 Spd could have been somewhat blessed and she had as much Def as in VW, while 30 Mag could have been boosted by Gremory as she was in Warlock. But like Cyril I had to bring my total units down from 18 so she got dropped. Overall, I'm going to rate her 6/10, because her availability does impact on it and of course she can't be used in CF, but she's a very solid healing support and her spells aren't so significant that you can't make her a dancer. She also has flying for meme builds to be fair. Hanneman Spoiler It's Monocle man's time in the spotlight, let's see if the Crest Scholar has much going on with his ability in combat. Hanneman spies a weakpoint in his stats: Spoiler Hanneman's bases and growths are not the greatest. His highlight is 20+55% Mag, which is great for Reinhardt memes. Aside from that, his highest stats are 17+40% Res, 13+45% Dex and 32+40% HP, which isn't stellar. Meanwhile, he has 10+30% Str and 7+25% Def, which is pretty poor and limits what he can use off the bat, while his Luk/Cha are 9/11+35%, which are kinda meh, especially when he's level 15 at earliest. However, the crowning glory is 9+20% Spd, which is terrible compared to others and does hurt his options. His Strengths and Weaknesses are interesting enough. Strengths in Bows, Reason and Riding are actually pretty decent, with his good magic list and Riding giving him a solid lategame class option in DK. Weaknesses in Flying and Armour limits you from movement types, but they don't matter for him at all. His magic list is pretty good actually. Reason gives Wind, Sagittae, Thoron, Ragnarok and Meteor, which is varied and interesting, with 1-3 range, power and even Siege magic if you get to A+. His Faith list's not so strong, with H + N, Recover and Ward, which isn't much, but he is a Ward option if you were looking for one. His personal's Rally Mag. Just, Rally Mag. Spoilers, but this doesn't matter because it's the only rally he has and that's disappointing. He also has a minor Indech crest, which gives a 10% chance of a second attack when he uses a weapon, which doesn't work with magic..... But he has a way to use it. He gets Schism Shot (Reduces Foe's Res, which is meh.) and Ward Arrow (Silences foe, which would be nice for bosses, but we're not that lucky for the ones we'd want) in Bows and his Authority skill is Battalion Desperation, which with his Spd might as well be nothing. Hanneman has an interesting niche: Thanks to his high Mag, he's a good option for magic bows and at C+ at base he's not far off from using them. Sure, you have to forge, but it's not that hard to get once you have the materials. Sniper thus becomes a great option for him if you go for it, especially with Hunter's Volley, but the expense could be an issue. How did I find him? Spoiler In VW, I was focused on using him as a mage, but he was dropped near the end. He hit level 37, with 39 Mag and HP and everything else was not all that great, with only 26 Res being higher than 25. He only mastered mage, but also entered Warlock and Dark Knight, while he mastered C Lances, B Bows/Authority/Riding and A Reason. This being hard, he wasn't utter trash. In AM, I dropped most of the church units in part 1, Hanneman was one such victim. In SS, I was determined to use him. I made it a goal to get the teachers in particular up to speed. He mastered Mage/DM/Warlock, got to DK and in his weapon skills he got A+ Reason, B+ Riding, C+ Faith and C Lances. As for his stats, his Mag wasn't amazing at 35 (4 less Mag and 6 more levels, ouch) and barring his higher HP, he had similar stats to VW which isn't so hot when he's at a higher level. In CF and Maddening I didn't use him outside his paralogue. It's a shame that he's got Mag and little else, but that's the truth of him. I feel like he's got a bit of potential, but he's never all that great. 3.5/10 is kinda generous, but the monocle has fallen far since Etzel and Canas before him. Manuela Spoiler The drunk teacher who I'm amazed Seteth didn't try to fire when she entered. I get that faith and swordplay are something she might teach, but I'm more surprised she can teach people how to fly to be honest. Manuela sings out her stats too. Spoiler Manuela's growths and bases are unfortunate. Her biggest flaw is the 14+35% Str/Mag, which limits her a fair bit. This is really her biggest issue as it hampers her combat and support potential. She is better with her 16+60% Spd growth, which while the base could be better is a good growth. Her defences aren't impressive at 8+30% Def and 15+25% Red, but her HP's better at 34+50%. 13+40% Dex and 12+35% Luk are decent, but more would be appreciated for her magic, but 15+50% Cha is actually alright in fairness, gives her that too. Her Strengths and Weaknesses are truly unfortunate. Strengths give her Sword, Faith and Flying which aren't amazing but give her some options. She has one Weakness, but considering she's kinda magic focused, Reason as a weakness is a doozy. It really hurts her trying to access anything involving it. Her magic list is alright enough. Reason gives Thunder, Bolganone and Bolting, which isn't amazing and I wish she got Thoron instead of Bolganone, but Bolting is nice for range. Faith gives H + N, Ward, Silence and Warp, which is weird because she doesn't have Recover or Physic, but she does have Silence and Warp which are both nice, while Ward is just a neat bonus. Her personal is Infirmary Master, which gives adjacent allies +10 Crit Evade, which could be worse but being adjacent limits it's utility as she's not the best frontliner. She's crestless, I'm moving on. Her CA is Hexblade (Alright enough for her, +7 Might is okay, but it's not Soulblade, which outdoes it at 20 Res. You're reading that right.) for Swords. Yep. Her Authority abilities are Rally Cha (I doubt this'll matter) and Battalion Renewal (Meh), still not Hanneman's in terms of inappropriate. She actually can use non-magic classes unlike Hanneman, but she's very much the Jackest of all trades kind of mage, not all that much good at them. How did I find her? Spoiler In VW, I did the same thing as Hanneman in terms of dropping in late game, but mastered Priest/Bishop on her alongside getting Gremory, hitting B Reason/Authority, B+ Swords and A+ Faith, with a bit in flying for some reason. She was not all that great in her stats with 29 Mag, 22 Str, 28 Spd, 31 Cha and 46 HP (with nothing else above Cha). In AM, I dropped most of the church units in part 1. Of the teachers and Alois, she was the most interesting as she had more Str than Mag as a Bishop. Why? In SS, I tried again, getting her to level 43, somehow getting the same Cha/Res/Def/Luk and about the same Dex, thankfully she had 33 Mag/Spd, but this isn't all that great either, looking quite weak compared to her students. She mastered Mage/Warlock/Bishop and got Gremory, alongside A Reason/Faith and B Swords/Authority. This kinda doesn't help her does it? In CF and Maddening I didn't use her outside her paralogue. Manuela is very much not all that good, but she's the other side of the coin from Hanneman: She has a bunch of options but isn't all that good at them. I'm going to rate her 3.5/10 as a result. Alois Spoiler It's time for the happiest man in Garreg Mach. I wish we got to see his family as a fun aside. Alois jokes about his stats: Spoiler Alois is actually pretty solid, with 27+45% Str being strong for him, alongside the alright 50+45% HP and 18+40% Def, helping take physical hits. 12+30/35% Luk/Dex isn't stellar, but it's still alright, while 16+40% Cha is also alright enough. His 8+20% Mag/Res is fitting and tells you not to bother with magic. Stats are okay with him mostly, that's the truth of it. Alois is yet another unit with few Strengths and Weaknesses. Strengths are Axes, Brawl and Armour, which at least two of these are okay to good and armour is high enough to give him Weight -3, which is nice and means unless you want Smite you don't need at all. Weaknesses in Reason and Flying don't matter too much to him, unless you want to Wyvern Lord everything. Alois's magic is the same as Raphael's. Reason gives Fire + Bolganone, Faith gives H + N and Recover, which is awful. Alois has Compassionate, which allows him to use Rally Luk, which isn't amazing, but that's the reality of these personals. He has no crests, he is not to blame. His CA list is mixed, with Spike (Lower Crit Smash) and Exhaustive Strike (I've talked about how this doesn't work sadly) for Axes and One-Two Punch (+8 Might, +20 Hit is nice and all, but it hits twice which is better. It does act differently though, being that it gives him AS +4 over his foe, so he actually doubles, but there's no brave effect so he still gets hit. This can work to your advantage) and Mighty Blow (+10 Might, +20 Crit, that can be nice) for Brawl. He actually has decent enough Authority skills with Rally Str and Battalion Wrath, which definitely can have its uses. He's a unit whose battalion isn't so good as to be worth recruiting him before his paralogue to be honest. Also, I'd argue he makes Raphael redundant before we talk about Balthus, because he tends to turn out better barring in HP. How did I find him? Spoiler In VW, he ended up as yet another unit who was alright, but nothing spectacular. He mastered Warrior and was in WM, while getting A+ Axe, A Brawl and B+ Armour/Authority. Stat wise, he had a high Str at 46, but not much else, like 29 Cha and 26 Def were the highest non-Str stats on him. For hitting Level 43, it wasn't amazing. In CF, being able to use him despite most of the church being gone was nice, with him reaching level 36, mastering and accessing the same classes as in VW and similar masteries, only he got A axes and didn't raise armour. Stat wise he might have been a little worse on Str (36 vs. 46), might have been about average on Spd, but honestly I can't say he had any particular highlights there either. In AM, He also got dropped in Part II, so he never really got a chance. In SS, focusing on the church units meant I used him a fair bit more. In Maddening, he wasn't used outside his paralogue. Which I did before he could be recruited. So he never fought. SS Alois: 43, WM, Mastered Warrior/Brigand, A+ Axe/Brawl, B+ Authority, 46 Str, 19 Dex, 25 Spd, 71 HP, 23 Def, 12 Res, 29 Cha, 16 Luk Alois is a good backup imo, he has some decent things to to work with, but he hasn't got a killer app and he shows up pretty late in game. I'm going to rate 5.5/10, better than most of the brawl crew due to his baseline options. Gilbert Spoiler I'm not sure that this guy's name is actually Gilbert, seems more of a Gustav to me...... Gilbert abandons trying to defend himself again: Spoiler Gilbert has one thing in particular: physical bulk, with 61+55% HP and 29+45% Def he's got some of the best defences in the game. His 26+45% Str's also pretty good, alongside his 22+45% Dex. Otherwise, keep walking. Okay, not quite, 20+35% Cha actually isn't all that bad, but. Spd at 10+30% is an awful base and 30% won't be enough to make it saved unless you reclass him into classes with better bases ASAP. His 9+20% Mag should be enough of a deterrent, while 7+10% Res is laughable. As a final note, part of his issue is that he has FK class modifiers which make his Spd worse as well as give that large Def, so that has to be watched out for as well. His Strengths and weaknesses are not too shabby actually. Strengths in Lances and Axes are nice to have, while Armour and Riding help make certain classes more feasible and gives him immediate Smite. Weakness doesn't exist for him, which makes accessing certain classes more viable and as he already has high ranks for his main weapons a class like say, WL, should be quite achievable, a feat shared with four other units and of them only Ingrid and Ferinand have an easier job getting flying classes. His magic list barely exists. Reason gives Thunder and Thoron, which I'm just disappointed he didn't get Bolting as well. Faith gives H + N and Ward, which at least isn't Recover but it's nothing much itself. His personal's Veteran Knight, which increases his defences by 2 when he has a battalion, which is alright I suppose but nothing to make him essential. Wait if he's Crestless why does Annette have minor Dominic, her mother's not hinted to have that crest or be tied to that lineage either. His CAs include Shatter Slash (Not so bad, but I'd prefer it on a unit earlier on in the game) and Glowing Ember (Pretty good considering his high Def) in Lances and Spike (Bleh) in Axes. His authority abilities are Rally Def and Battalion Wrath (In all fairness, not bad) One thing that irks me is that he has to be recruited to get the Annette paralogue, making it harder for me to justify recruiting her out of house and also being a bit of a weight on that map as well because he's not the best ally she could have there. It's also apparent with his stats he's treated as Dedue's backup, which is disappointing as they could have been different beasts in terms of gameplay. How did I find him? Spoiler For AM, I ended up going gown his armoured route, mastering FoK and GK and getting S Axe, A+ Armour, A Lance, B+ Authority and B Riding. But I actually tried Warrior near the end, where he had 77 HP, 40 Str, 27 Dex, 15 Spd, 31 Def, 11 Res, 21 Cha and 18 Luk Gilbert feels like he's a unit with potential, but he's kinda tied back due to what he focuses on. His skillset isn't amazing, but he does have some options. Being post timeskip also hurts his access to certain classes, which while not subvertable because he has no weakness, is still a barrier to use. Ultimately, I would rate him 3.5/10, because he does have solid enough bases to help a fair bit on RaD and beyond. Jeritza Spoiler DK! DE-EATH KNIGHT- Wait, wrong DK. Death Knight retreats in case I diss his stats: Spoiler Jeritza is more like it in terms of late units. 32+50% is a great Str stat, alongside his pretty dang good 27+60% Spd growth. Defensively, 53+50% HP and 24+40% Def are actually pretty good considering he actually has a Spd stat, while he even has an alright enough Res at 18+25%, though 12+30% Luk is one of his worse stats. 18+35% Mag is better than expected for a not-mage (though he does have magic access by default), though a similar Dex at 17+35% is also not the best he does have ways to prevent that hurting him so much. None of this excuses his 10+25% Cha, so watch out for that regardless if foes have gambits on them. Jeritza does have a pretty solid list, but it's not perfect. Strengths in Swords, Lances, Brawl and Riding are pretty nice together and give him access to a bunch of classes especially with his high levels for all of them barring Brawl. Weakness in Faith isn't much of an issue and I'd argue neither is Authority because he has a solid B rank in it already. He also has a budding talent in Flying, which is nice on its own but is even better because he gets Darting Blow from it, which is very good for an offensive unit. His magic list feels weirdly short. Reason gives Thunder, Thoron and Death, which . Faith gives H + N and Restore, which might actually be worth having in situations as there's few units who can access high move and use Restore, but his weakness in it doesn't help matters. His personal, Murderous Intent, grants Hit +20 during combat when he initiates. It's better on paper than Caspar's personal, but it can't benefit allies and doesn't work on EP. His minor Lamine crest conserves healing magic 10% of the time, but he doesn't have half as much as use as Mercedes does. His CA list is actually not so bad, with Haze Slice (+20 Avoid isn't too bad, but it's redundant because of Windsweep) and Windsweep (Very nice, a staple in his kit for me) in Swords, Shatter Slash (The Def reduction would be nice earlier on) and Glowing Ember (This is alright, but it only gets him +7 damage on top of its might at base) in Lances and Nimble Combo (Oh look a 2-hit combo, thanks Raph for not having one /s) in Brawl. As for Authority skills he gets Battalion Wrath and Desperation, which is a pretty good PP combo, but he also gets Mastermind, which is huge for his chances to move to other classes and helps him with reaching skill thresholds. He of course is the only unit with Death Knight, which is cool and all and has mounted magic access not to mention Counterattack when he masters it, though it does reduce Spd growth by 5%. However he's also the only guy with Darting Blow in the game, which is a super boon in his favour. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the Rafail Gem to use because he forgot it I guess, though it's not as necessary when he's not fighting against you. How did I find him? Spoiler In CF, yeah he was good. He didn't get to master clasees, but he reached A Swords and C+ Reason as well as getting Flying's Budding Talent, I suspect because I focused on other units because he was already so high. Stat wise he got 37 Str, 33 Spd, 22 Mag/Res, 27 Def and 58 HP, he probably would have been wild if I'd focused on him. Jeritza is the closest thing the game has to Gotoh and that's for the best, we need all the help we can get. I'm going to rate him 7.5/10, if only there were more like him. Part 2: It's Rerate time Spoiler One thing I came to notice with my ratings were that I didn't feel like I could rate higher than Edelgard, so when I realised I made her 9 it left me a lower ceiling than I anticipated. This is about fixing that issue once and for all, so here I'll rerate everyone's score, but the reasonings are unchanged. Mostly just bumping up slightly, on account of raising the ceiling. Others are unchanged, but there's no massive swings up or down Unit Old New Byleth 8.5 9 Edelgard 9 9.5 Hubert 6 6.5 Ferdinand 7 7.5 Linhardt 6.5 7 Caspar 5 5 Bernadetta 7 7.5 Dorothea 6 6.5 Petra 7.5 8 Dimitri 8.5 9 Dedue 6.5 6.5 Felix 8 8.5 Ashe 5 5.5 Sylvain 7 7.5 Mercedes 6.5 7 Annette 6 6.5 Ingrid 7.5 8 Claude 8.5 9 Lorenz 5 5 Raphael 4.5 5 Ignatz 6 6.5 Lysithea 8 8.5 Marianne 6.5 7 Hilda 7.5 8 Leonie 7.5 8 Seteth 7.5 8 Flayn 6 6.5 Hanneman 3.5 3.5 Manuela 3.5 3.5 Gilbert 3.5 3.5 Alois 5.5 6 Catherine 7 7.5 Shamir 6.5 7 Cyril 6 6.5 Jeritza 7.5 8 So, as an aside, I did some stat calcs, my average is 6.91 and median is 7 with this, so I don't think it's so bad. Part 3: Recounts because I was curious. Spoiler I then thought, let's see what happens if I calculate all the ratings with the reviews that might have been missed as well as my own adjusted numbers. So, I trawled every thread to find all the votes (Sadly one person early on scrubbed their rating record so I can't use theirs again), but I do have everyone else's. Rather than show all the numbers, I'll just get the results. Average Byleth 9.167 Edelgard 9.250 Hubert 5.720 Ferdinand 7.607 Linhardt 6.974 Caspar 4.265 Bernadetta 6.967 Dorothea 6.700 Petra 8.374 Dimitri 9.230 Dedue 5.857 Felix 8.667 Ashe 4.036 Sylvain 7.708 Mercedes 6.859 Annette 5.569 Ingrid 7.385 Claude 9.023 Lorenz 3.846 Raphael 3.773 Ignatz 5.227 Lysithea 8.053 Marianne 6.938 Hilda 7.310 Leonie 8.293 Seteth 7.083 Flayn 4.731 Hanneman 4.182 Manuela 3.045 Gilbert 2.400 Alois 5.786 Catherine 7.811 Shamir 6.700 Cyril 6.208 Jeritza 8.167 Anna 2.111 Yuri 7.243 Balthus 7.500 Hapi 7.350 Constance 6.833 Black Eagles 6.982 Blue Lions 6.914 Golden Deer 6.558 Church of Seiros 5.935 Ashen Wolves 7.232 Poor Anna 2.111 I blame Byleth being ranked with the church for their being so far ahead. And poor Blue Lions. Note: Dimitri, Lysithea and Linhart were the most reviewed units, with the least reviewed aside from DLC being Alois. Poor guy. (Edit: I somehow screwed up and got the group averages wrong. Except for the Ashen Wolves. Huh.) In score order for a finish: Spoiler Edelgard 9.250 Dimitri 9.230 Byleth 9.167 Claude 9.023 Felix 8.667 Petra 8.374 Leonie 8.293 Jeritza 8.167 Lysithea 8.053 Catherine 7.811 Sylvain 7.708 Ferdinand 7.607 Balthus 7.500 Ingrid 7.385 Hapi 7.350 Hilda 7.310 Yuri 7.243 Seteth 7.083 Linhardt 6.974 Bernadetta 6.967 Marianne 6.938 Mercedes 6.859 Constance 6.833 Dorothea 6.700 Shamir 6.700 Cyril 6.208 Dedue 5.857 Alois 5.786 Hubert 5.720 Annette 5.569 Ignatz 5.227 Flayn 4.731 Caspar 4.265 Hanneman 4.182 Ashe 4.036 Lorenz 3.846 Raphael 3.773 Manuela 3.045 Gilbert 2.400 Anna 2.111 I would like to come back to the DLC another time, but that's all for the present. Edited January 4, 2021 by Dayni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 If we’re talking about reratings, I still lose sleep over the fact that I rated Ferdie a 10 with 1 point of bias for a combat art he learns at A lances. That was... ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 12/4/2020 at 12:12 PM, drattakbowser said: Excuse me, someone can pinned this page ? I was totally lost to find this page. On 12/15/2020 at 11:53 PM, Benice said: I suppose that we should probably ping a mod! @Integrity , if you deem fit, would you mind doing the honors? Just signal-boosting these comments before it'd be a necro-post. I think it'd be really cool to have this thread pinned as a collaborative effort and resource, at least for a little while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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