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Best Nohrian tomes for Leo, Felicia and Nyx?


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What's a good general use set of spells to give my offensive mages? I like being able to customize spell lists in this game instead of them being fixed like in 3H, but I'm not sure which tomes are the best ones to use. Leo's final class will be Dark Flier, while Felicia and Nyx are both going for Witch. Should I be filling up their inventories with spells? Or would it be better to focus on forging up a basic, reliable tome like Thunder and keep maybe one or two others on hand for movement type effectiveness or stat debuffs?

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Generally Forged Thunder is going to be your best, along with Lightning and occasionally Mjolnir. Honestly, not much else of the Tomes is particularly useful that I recall. There's no real need to give any unit a big inventory of different weapons from the same type (mostly because CQ has very few effective weaponry and other specialized weapons up until near endgame, unlike BR and Rev) beyond what they need at the time, with the exception of Ophelia who's pretty much the only unit with direct benefits from it.

However, the Horse Spirit and Calamity Gate from Paralogue 20 are definitely worth getting even if you aren't planning on using Odin or Ophelia. They're super useful, and available veeeery early if you go for it specifically.

Edited by Emerson
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35 minutes ago, Emerson said:

However, the Horse Spirit and Calamity Gate from Paralogue 20 are definitely worth getting even if you aren't planning on using Odin or Ophelia. They're super useful, and available veeeery early if you go for it specifically.

I second this. Leo really likes the speed from the horse spirit if you have him paired up with someone who gives speed (read: Felicia), by the way.

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I often use Thunder and Fimbulvetr. And that's about it. However, Nyx is best off sticking to Fire, because otherwise, she's really [EFF!]ing inaccurate. So much so, in fact, I'd recommend dropping her entirely.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I second this. Leo really likes the speed from the horse spirit if you have him paired up with someone who gives speed (read: Felicia), by the way.

Leo also reaaaally loves Calamity Gate for Ch 17 also, he's got natural bulk by himself already, so he actually becomes a very potent unit for both phases on that map, as long as you avoid him getting Lunge'd.

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1 hour ago, Emerson said:

Generally Forged Thunder is going to be your best, along with Lightning and occasionally Mjolnir. Honestly, not much else of the Tomes is particularly useful that I recall. There's no real need to give any unit a big inventory of different weapons from the same type (mostly because CQ has very few effective weaponry and other specialized weapons up until near endgame, unlike BR and Rev) beyond what they need at the time, with the exception of Ophelia who's pretty much the only unit with direct benefits from it.

However, the Horse Spirit and Calamity Gate from Paralogue 20 are definitely worth getting even if you aren't planning on using Odin or Ophelia. They're super useful, and available veeeery early if you go for it specifically.

Perfect, thanks! So if I just hand them each a forged Thunder, Lightning and Mjolnir I should be set?

How important is Calamity Gate though? I'd rather not do any of the child paralogues if it's possible to get by without them.

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I'd second Horse Spirit (P20) and Calamity Gate (also P20). While not necessary, they are nice to have.

Aside from that, Lighting and Mjolnir are great. I'd recomend keeping Brynhildr and Missiletainn on their proper users. Both are quite strong, if a bit inaccurate. If accuracy isn't much of an issue, then skip the forged Thunder tomes as the afore mentioned spells are better.

Aside from that, Excalibur is busted (12 Mt, 90 Hit, 25 Crit, +/-5 Effective Speed) for the few chapters you have it, and Disrobing Gale is also pretty good if you have one (You get it from random events).

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Agree that forged Thunder is probably the best choice so far.

If you can get your hands on it though, Moonlight is a pretty good tome in its own right. It heals on Player Phase without any penalties unlike Nosferatu and isn't locked to just Dark Mages. Unforged, it's pretty unimpressive, but a forged Moonlight can deal decent damage and really helps with survivability. It's one of those RNG-MyCastle pick-ups though, but you can get one for free from Battle Visit rewards.

EDIT: Oop, got Thunder and Lightning confused LOL

Edited by Tenma
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34 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

How important is Calamity Gate though? I'd rather not do any of the child paralogues if it's possible to get by without them.

I wouldn't say IMPORTANT, so much as just incredibly useful. You get no other Weapon Triangle reversing weapons in Conquest besides it, without DLC or Visit/Battle Points.

Ophelia's paralogue also gives the earliest possible Lightning Tome and a Spirit Dust as well, tbh its super useful to do when using any magic user. Odin can probably just sit behind Felicia or Nyx in Pair-Up while they do the work.

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3 minutes ago, Emerson said:

I wouldn't say IMPORTANT, so much as just incredibly useful. You get no other Weapon Triangle reversing weapons in Conquest besides it, without DLC or Visit/Battle Points.

Ophelia's paralogue also gives the earliest possible Lightning Tome and a Spirit Dust as well, tbh its super useful to do when using any magic user. Odin can probably just sit behind Felicia or Nyx in Pair-Up while they do the work.

Damn, that does sound incredibly useful. Hard to pass up three good spells and Spirit Dust, especially when I've got three mages on my team. Guess it's time to get Odin hitched lol

38 minutes ago, L3xandr3 said:

Disrobing Gale is also pretty good if you have one (You get it from random events).

Not gonna lie, I thought Disrobing Gale was a joke spell when I read the flavor text lol

I'll definitely keep an eye out for it though. If I get one it's totally going to Leo just for the sheer hilarity of a distinguished Nohrian prince using his finely honed magical skill to... pants people.

30 minutes ago, Tenma said:

Agree that forged Lightning is probably the best choice so far.

If you can get your hands on it though, Moonlight is a pretty good spell in its own right. It heals on Player Phase without any penalties unlike Nosferatu and isn't locked to just Dark Mages. Unforged, it's pretty unimpressive, but a forged Moonlight can deal decent damage and really helps with survivability. It's one of those RNG-MyCastle pick-ups though, but you can get one for free from Battle Visit rewards.

I've got one Moonlight so far. I think Odin or somebody just randomly handed it to me. Do I just need to luck into another one if I'm playing offline?

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50 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

I've got one Moonlight so far. I think Odin or somebody just randomly handed it to me. Do I just need to luck into another one if I'm playing offline?

Unfortunately, yeah it does take a little bit of luck finding it haha. It's not terribly uncommon though, like I found 2 on my Conquest run and 4 on my Revelations run. You can even find it at the Dusk Lottery from a silver ball.

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18 minutes ago, Tenma said:

Unfortunately, yeah it does take a little bit of luck finding it haha. It's not terribly uncommon though, like I found 2 on my Conquest run and 4 on my Revelations run. You can even find it at the Dusk Lottery from a silver ball.

Ah, kinda sucks that it's RNG-based, but as long as I get two I can at least forge it once and Felicia won't have to waste a skill slot on Shadowgift.

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1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Damn, that does sound incredibly useful. Hard to pass up three good spells and Spirit Dust, especially when I've got three mages on my team. Guess it's time to get Odin hitched lol

Mmhm, between how early the paralogue's available, how good Ophelia is, and the rewards you get, her Paralogue is by far the best one to actually go for just gameplay wise. As far as I remember very few others give as many good rewards as hers does.

1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

I've got one Moonlight so far. I think Odin or somebody just randomly handed it to me. Do I just need to luck into another one if I'm playing offline?

Yeah, it's entirely RNG without Battle/Visit points, hence why it's not usually something I mention. It makes them very difficult to forge (they're annoying to even with DLC), and impractical to recommend unless you already have them.

However, some of them are definitely good. Disrobing Gale has it's +3 AS, although low might, Moonlight is solid, although I actually much prefer Nosferatu for actual usage, due to it usually recovering more than 20%, and working on Enemy Phase, Iago's Tome is the only debuff Tome and it's actually super good, definitely worth carrying if you manage to get one, and Odin's Grimoire is basically just a stronger Mjolnir, but it can't double.

The only other ones are Ember, which is a generic joke weapon although it can be good for Elise on promotion due to her usually low Luck stat and usually high Mag to make up for Ember's weak might, and Speed Thunder, which I question why it exists, because it gives enemies within 2 tiles +4 speed after combat. There ARE weapons that give the player's units Rally effects after combat, like Saizo's Star, but Speed Thunder and Xander's Lance give stats to the enemy and, idk it's just weird. Xander's Lance is at least strong but has other drawbacks that make it even worse, and Speed Thunder just isn't very strong.

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7 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

How important is Calamity Gate though? I'd rather not do any of the child paralogues if it's possible to get by without them.

Having it will make or break your Mages performance against all Blue Weaponry users - Ninjas, Pegasus Knight and Spear Fighters (the most relevant I think) but mostly the Ninjas. Consider that a Dual Weapon doesn´t just reverse Weapon Triangle, but doubles the effect of the now reversed effect - more damage and in the case of Ninjas much better accuracy. 

10 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

while Felicia and Nyx are both going for Witch.

Don´t let me discourage you from using these two, but they may have serious accuracy issues (depending on when you make them witches they don´t go above 20 Skl). In the case of Nyx combine that with her case of frailty and you are bound to have an... exciting unit to use.

Since you´ll be making them Witches, both Felicia and Nyx will be able to use the Nosferatu - while niche, since they can´t tank with it like Odin, it may be useful to heal either of them, without requiring the attention of a healer.

7 hours ago, Emerson said:

I wouldn't say IMPORTANT, so much as just incredibly useful. You get no other Weapon Triangle reversing weapons in Conquest besides it, without DLC or Visit/Battle Points.

The Dual Club would like to have a word with you.

5 hours ago, Emerson said:

The only other ones are Ember, which is a generic joke weapon although it can be good for Elise on promotion due to her usually low Luck stat and usually high Mag

What are you promoting Elise into, to have a low luck stat?

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13 hours ago, Emerson said:

Mmhm, between how early the paralogue's available, how good Ophelia is, and the rewards you get, her Paralogue is by far the best one to actually go for just gameplay wise. As far as I remember very few others give as many good rewards as hers does.

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of their flimsy reasoning behind the whole kids thing (or really anything involving the parallel worlds), so that's kinda why I like to ignore the child paralogues. But Ophelia seems like a pretty interesting character and her paralogue's got a ton of nice rewards so I might just go ahead and make an excpetion for her. I just need to figure out who I should marry Odin to (why can't it be Niles?!) since I don't wanna screw up any of my other pairings.

Glad to hear I'm not missing out on much from the others though.

8 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Don´t let me discourage you from using these two, but they may have serious accuracy issues (depending on when you make them witches they don´t go above 20 Skl). In the case of Nyx combine that with her case of frailty and you are bound to have an... exciting unit to use.

Didn't you recommend Witch Felicia though...?

Should I take a different route with her? She's a Pegasus Knight right now. If it's more reliable, I could master seal her up to Falcon and have her use staves and maybe a Bolt Naginata if she can get her hands on one in Conquest.

Is Nyx really that bad? I'm not benching her, even if she sucks. But is there a class that helps her better than Witch? I've got her in Dark Knight atm. Maybe Dark Flier as a final class?

Edited by RainbowMoon
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2 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Is Nyx really that bad? I'm not benching her, even if she sucks. But is there a class that helps her better than Witch? I've got her in Dark Knight atm. Maybe Dark Flier as a final class?

Yes. Magic and speed are her only good stats, which makes her unreliable.

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3 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Didn't you recommend Witch Felicia though...?

You mean in this thread:

https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/93201-classbuild-advice-for-felicia-and-flora-conquest-classichard/

Yeah, I did recommend Witch Felicia as probably the best/most effortless way to get maximum damage out of her, since you specifically asked - while noting that she´ll be better off as a Staff Bot. Because you specifically asked about offensive reclasses for Felicia/Flora.  That has nothing to do with how good or how bad it may end up.

As mentioned in the thread Heartseeker can help, but that´s 1-range only. On a unit with okay Res and bad Def. Other than that, the only thing that patches up Accuracy would be the skills Certain Blow (Sniper Lv 5) and Quixotic (Basara Lv. 15). Without skill buying Quixotic should be out of the equation, but Nyx can apparently A rank Mozu for Archer/Sniper.

3 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Is Nyx really that bad? I'm not benching her, even if she sucks. But is there a class that helps her better than Witch? I've got her in Dark Knight atm. Maybe Dark Flier as a final class?

Yes. Consider that Nyx is a magic class cannon. Trying to make her tanky is a waste of time. Going all in on damage is the way so may as well keep her in Witch or Sorcerer. If she hits a target she will hit hard, but you will have to keep an eye out for her at all times and you will have to think about when to attack something with her. 

If you want to shore up her Skill, in chapter 12 Ryoma drops a Secret Book, there´s apparently one in chapter 13 and one in chapter 20. I think 1 you can buy when the Staff Store gets upgraded to Lv 3. There are two more for online rewards. You can also get Goddess Icons to get a little better Hit - you got one in the 6 opening chapters, 1 in Invasion 1, 1 in chapter 15 and 1 in chapter 23. There may be more of both stat boosters in the Paralogues. Also temporary stat boosters.

Edited by Imuabicus
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57 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Yes. Consider that Nyx is a magic class cannon. Trying to make her tanky is a waste of time. Going all in on damage is the way so may as well keep her in Witch or Sorcerer. If she hits a target she will hit hard, but you will have to keep an eye out for her at all times and you will have to think about when to attack something with her. 

If you want to shore up her Skill, in chapter 12 Ryoma drops a Secret Book, there´s apparently one in chapter 13 and one in chapter 20. I think 1 you can buy when the Staff Store gets upgraded to Lv 3. There are two more for online rewards. You can also get Goddess Icons to get a little better Hit - you got one in the 6 opening chapters, 1 in Invasion 1, 1 in chapter 15 and 1 in chapter 23. There may be more of both stat boosters in the Paralogues. Also temporary stat boosters.

Simply put, Nyx is a magical Gonzales. Powerful, but with godawful hit.

19 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

Aside from that, Lighting and Mjolnir are great. I'd recomend keeping Brynhildr and Missiletainn on their proper users. Both are quite strong, if a bit inaccurate. If accuracy isn't much of an issue, then skip the forged Thunder tomes as the afore mentioned spells are better.

I fail to see the Mjolnir hype as warranted - killer weapons suck in Fates, as by the time they're relevant I get more damage from other weapons more often than not.

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51 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Simply put, Nyx is a magical Gonzales. Powerful, but with godawful hit.

I fail to see the Mjolnir hype as warranted - killer weapons suck in Fates, as by the time they're relevant I get more damage from other weapons more often than not.

When it's down to the wire and you may lose, Crits are always an option. That's the entire point of Crits: a gamble. Do you use the slightly weaker weapon on the off chance it will one-shot the target? It's not reliable, yes, but it's a final roll of the dice if you're about to lose.

As an aside, in Conquest, Mages are going to be chipping for a fair bit of the time. Unless you are actually in need of Exp, then why chip when you could kill?

But, that's just my opinion. I know of some people who despise Crits and everything they stand for. I don't try to change their mind. They are entitled to their opinion, just as I am mine. Just as you are, too!

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1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

Yeah, I did recommend Witch Felicia as probably the best/most effortless way to get maximum damage out of her, since you specifically asked - while noting that she´ll be better off as a Staff Bot. Because you specifically asked about offensive reclasses for Felicia/Flora.  That has nothing to do with how good or how bad it may end up.

To be fair, you did say in that thread that Witch Felicia would perform well enough, as opposed to Flora who's just too damn slow to fight at all. I know healer Felicia is the best way to go, but I got the impression that Witch was at least a viable alternative. Sorry if I misunderstood, though. She's already got Darting Blow from Pegasus, so I can always just reclass her back to Maid and give her a Flame Shuriken so she can fight and heal as needed.

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Yes. Consider that Nyx is a magic class cannon. Trying to make her tanky is a waste of time. Going all in on damage is the way so may as well keep her in Witch or Sorcerer. If she hits a target she will hit hard, but you will have to keep an eye out for her at all times and you will have to think about when to attack something with her. 

If you want to shore up her Skill, in chapter 12 Ryoma drops a Secret Book, there´s apparently one in chapter 13 and one in chapter 20. I think 1 you can buy when the Staff Store gets upgraded to Lv 3. There are two more for online rewards. You can also get Goddess Icons to get a little better Hit - you got one in the 6 opening chapters, 1 in Invasion 1, 1 in chapter 15 and 1 in chapter 23. There may be more of both stat boosters in the Paralogues. Also temporary stat boosters.

So she's Lysithea with a really bad aim, basically lol

I'm not really looking to make her tanky, seeing as she's a mage and all. Thanks for the advice about the stat boosters though. I'm hoping those will at least cut down on her accuracy issues. Sucks that she isn't a better unit though, she's low-key one of my favorite characters in Fates.

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1 hour ago, L3xandr3 said:

When it's down to the wire and you may lose, Crits are always an option. That's the entire point of Crits: a gamble. Do you use the slightly weaker weapon on the off chance it will one-shot the target? It's not reliable, yes, but it's a final roll of the dice if you're about to lose.

As an aside, in Conquest, Mages are going to be chipping for a fair bit of the time. Unless you are actually in need of Exp, then why chip when you could kill?

But, that's just my opinion. I know of some people who despise Crits and everything they stand for. I don't try to change their mind. They are entitled to their opinion, just as I am mine. Just as you are, too!

Thing is, killer weapons were better than steel in most games because they had steel level might with the higher chance to crit (and sometimes lower weight to boot). In this game, however, they're only as strong as unforged iron, with the higher crit chance not being enough to compensate for this, especially since you probably won't have a high enough crit chance to rely on pretty much 10 times out of 10. Doesn't help that the lower might might mean in the vent of an all-too-likely non-crit, more units need to attack that enemy to kill it when with a stronger weapon, only one would've been needed instead.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Thing is, killer weapons were better than steel in most games because they had steel level might with the higher chance to crit (and sometimes lower weight to boot). In this game, however, they're only as strong as unforged iron, with the higher crit chance not being enough to compensate for this, especially since you probably won't have a high enough crit chance to rely on pretty much 10 times out of 10. Doesn't help that the lower might might mean in the vent of an all-too-likely non-crit, more units need to attack that enemy to kill it when with a stronger weapon, only one would've been needed instead.

I think you misunderstand. I'm just saying they can be useful for the extra damage when fighting the generics, or as a last gambit when you're about to lose. If you can't kill the Boss anyways, then what's wrong with taking a chance on a Crit? (rhetorical question) And thus it might be nice to have some prepared in case things go sour.

I'm not saying the Killer Weapons are good in Fates. I'm not saying you should bank on Crits for every combat you enter. Merely that Mjonlir might be nice to have on hand. Options, my good sir, options!

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17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

The Dual Club would like to have a word with you.

Whoops! Totally forgot about that one! But beyond those 2 that really IS it.

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

What are you promoting Elise into, to have a low luck stat?

Ack, I meant Skill. Her skill is usually pretty bad, averaging at a wonderful 6.25 at Lv 10/1 Strategist. Her luck helps make up for it a bit, but not enough.

9 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of their flimsy reasoning behind the whole kids thing (or really anything involving the parallel worlds), so that's kinda why I like to ignore the child paralogues. But Ophelia seems like a pretty interesting character and her paralogue's got a ton of nice rewards so I might just go ahead and make an excpetion for her. I just need to figure out who I should marry Odin to (why can't it be Niles?!) since I don't wanna screw up any of my other pairings.

Glad to hear I'm not missing out on much from the others though.

If you care about gameplay, Nyx, Felicia, Elise, Camilla are all good moms for Ophelia, and physical moms (specifically Effie and Charlotte) can work for her too if you're okay with a little babying and immediate Heart Seal usage. If you're just in it for the rewards, may I recommend Selena? Their support is super cute.

Edited by Emerson
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12 hours ago, Emerson said:

If you care about gameplay, Nyx, Felicia, Elise, Camilla are all good moms for Ophelia, and physical moms (specifically Effie and Charlotte) can work for her too if you're okay with a little babying and immediate Heart Seal usage. If you're just in it for the rewards, may I recommend Selena? Their support is super cute.

Thanks! I think I'll go with Camilla, then. I like Nyx with Leo and Felicia's already married to Corrin.

12 hours ago, Emerson said:

Elise

Is it wrong that I'm picturing a pissed-off Xander chasing Odin down a dark alley with Siegfried in a knife-grip? lol

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  • 4 weeks later...

All the tomes from the ophelia paralogue are fantastic choices, being Lighting, Horse Spirit, and Calamity Gate.  However, I also am partial to forged thunder (since Fimbulvetr and the other steel weapons make doubling harder).  Since you have so many magic users I would recommend forging a few thunders and going from there.

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