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Book V Speculation and Discussion Thread


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11 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Agreed, it's a really neat twist to put on them! To bring up more Norse lore, it was the dwarves that crafted Odin and Thor's signature weapons among other things (pretty much every item or location of significance was built by either them or the giants), so I wouldn't be surprised if in the FEH-verse Alfador also commissioned them to equip his valkyries too (especially if the valkyries have been conflated with his ravens here).

Could very well be. Although, FEH kind of made a mistake regarding Odin's ravens already. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to sweep that under the rug. That is, they already named a couple weapons after those ravens: 2 of the Easter egg "tomes."

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4 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Could very well be. Although, FEH kind of made a mistake regarding Odin's ravens already. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to sweep that under the rug. That is, they already named a couple weapons after those ravens: 2 of the Easter egg "tomes."

True. That said, they also called winged Manaketes Fafnirs too (complete with accent unless I'm mistaken) so I wouldn't be surprised if they thought the mythological significance was worth doubling up on names or, to put it in your words, sweeping the older uses under the rug. Besides, this way they could also imply those egg tomes are tied to them in some way? ...that last bit's a stretch, I know =P

Though now that you mention it, there are plenty of other naming issues elsewhere too. We already have two Lif/Leifs for example and the Fenrir tome (and more I'm sure I'm forgetting): there's no way we're not getting Fenrir the wolf if Book 7 is Ragnarok for instance, considering how integral he is to it. Thanks for bringing up that point!

(Now I'm curious if we'll see other gods show up too. Tyr with a Nidavellian artificial hand would be really neat for example.)

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49 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Looks like we're fighting Fafnir in the next chapter. Looks like Lance Cavalry. 

Yeah, that fits to complete the Canto triangle.

I wonder if the others will be Canto ranged fliers. Same reach, but different functionality.

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17 hours ago, Othin said:

Yeah, that fits to complete the Canto triangle.

I wonder if the others will be Canto ranged fliers. Same reach, but different functionality.

The seiros look-alike and her friend will most likely be Canto fliers. Fafnir having a unique colour and the final weapon makes sense. Really hope they make him a dragon or something similar in the future. 

Edited by SuperNova125
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So now that the update is out, I regret to inform you all that [SPOILERS]: 

Spoiler

Fafnir is looking to be going the Surtr route. He will have his own version of Muspellflame (Nidavellir Axiom) as a Sacred Seal. Have fun running from a Canto cav instead of a slow ass armor.

Also, his enemy stat spread and weapon: 

40/38/37/37/16/168

Hreiðmarr: Grants Def+3. Enables【Canto (3)】during turns 1 through 4. If unit is not adjacent to an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat, inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack during combat (only highest value applied; does not stack), and after combat, if unit attacked, inflicts【Guard】on target and foes within 2 spaces of target.

 

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5 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

So now that the update is out, I regret to inform you all that [SPOILERS]: 

  Hide contents

Fafnir is looking to be going the Surtr route. He will have his own version of Muspellflame (Nidavellir Axiom) as a Sacred Seal. Have fun running from a Canto cav instead of a slow ass armor.

Also, his enemy stat spread and weapon: 

40/38/37/37/16/168

Hreiðmarr: Grants Def+3. Enables【Canto (3)】during turns 1 through 4. If unit is not adjacent to an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat, inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack during combat (only highest value applied; does not stack), and after combat, if unit attacked, inflicts【Guard】on target and foes within 2 spaces of target.

 

Spoiler

Fafnir's cool-looking mecha and the fact that he is a Canto lance cav that with a solo condition grants +5 to stats, guard and guard smoke makes me want to summon him really bad.

Dislike the seal he has. Hel and Freya didn't have any similar seal and they both are pretty intimidating and hard to defeat at times. Just hope that there won't be a ritual or something similar to defeat him. Book 2 did it and no-one liked it. 

 

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48 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Fafnir's cool-looking mecha and the fact that he is a Canto lance cav that with a solo condition grants +5 to stats, guard and guard smoke makes me want to summon him really bad.

Dislike the seal he has. Hel and Freya didn't have any similar seal and they both are pretty intimidating and hard to defeat at times. Just hope that there won't be a ritual or something similar to defeat him. Book 2 did it and no-one liked it. 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, and he also has quite a killer slasher smile:

Spoiler

t5wkjlbx6t961.png

 

Also, here’s our first proper look at the blonde witch [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

mbd46xfc5t961.png

Currently, the only thing I want to know is why does she have a Zero (of Kirby’s Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64 fame) themed hat?

 

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15 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Well, Otr"s place on the suspicious scale just increased tenfold. Curious as to this divine weapon he's looking for.

Legendary weapons with a refine from Legendary heroes

Edited by Hilda
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What's with these lame villains being stupid arrogant/evil and being like "I'm the strongest" but using dumb invincibility gimmicks? It was bad with BK and Ashnard, it was even worse with Surtr, and it's still dumb now with Fafnir.

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Ooookay. So, let's see about my impressions on this chapter...

1. Fafnir's crazy face is hecka freaky.

2. Looks like mech world is conquering multiple countries at once. That's got to be spreading their resources thin. It showed Fafnir personally finishing the job at once of them...I wonder which it was. Also, all the worlds we've helped up until now are safe for the time being, but I wonder if we'll get return appearances from Hrid and Leavateinn just because their countries might get threatened. (Honestly, poor Nifl. They JUST recovered from almost being conquered, and even then, can't possibly be flourishing again yet. Ooo but maybe this will mean Muspell and Nifl team up! I'd love to see that! (Also, I ship Hrid and Leavateinn, so...))

3. Otr talks about a new weapon which has the power to destroy gates. (The name was stated but I don't remember what it was called except that it began with J.) Sounds like someone weaponized the royal Emblian ability. Will Bruno make an appearance in this book? This certainly might be related to his quest to get rid of the curse on his bloodline. Perhaps they were cursed because of the creation of this weapon?

4. Indeed, Eitri is the witch lady, as expected. She also seems like she will most definitely be an ally. Also, she smol. I significantly underestimated how diminutive she would be.

5. Fafnir has a seal. Is this the first time we're seeing a foe with a seal? Anyway, in a way, he's Surtr 2.0: invulnerable conqueror. We may have to mod the summon gun again.

6. Fafnir is a lance unit, and his mech is...interesting. It has something that looks like a face at the top. Could this be a visual cue of Yellow Kiran controlling him? He also mentions to Otr something about having amnesia and having awoken in a battlefield. I wonder if that was before or after meeting his little siblings. This leads me into...

THEORY TIME!

Okay, so if Fafnir was a creation of Yellow Kiran's, long ago, and then escaped into the war-torn Nidvalir (if I'm remembering that spelling right) it could be that that was when they met, not after Fafnir took the throne. If that's the case, then Fafnir's mental breakdowns could be the result from being "another failure" as Yellow Kiran put it. Yellow Kiran could have been trying to summon people (or augment his summoning somehow to make those he summoned stronger) but as of the creation/summoning of Fafnir, it didn't work yet. It could also be that they were trying to recreate the summon gun (since I believe that at the beginning of book 1, Anna says that the summon gun is an ancient relic, and Fafnir probably hasn't been around long enough for him to be the result of creating the actual summon gun.) Fafnir's crazy strength could be the result of fiddling with the summon gun's designs (to augment summoned people) and his crazy...crazy being the result of having been "incompletely summoned" or the augmentation messing with his mental stability. It could be that he was fine for a while, but only recently began to unravel, as it would have been the integrity/sustainability of his mind that was the failure. It's only natural, in this case, that he would have (after running away) tried to understand the situation of the world he found himself in (and thus, put him in a good place to discover and take in his younger siblings.) After this, he may have wanted to help his new home, and so used his strength to put an end to mech world's warring, and took it over. That would be around the time that he began to break down (and I still suspect that mirror above the throne of being involved.) If he was made to be stronger than normal, it makes sense that the way his mentality would break down would favor using that strength somehow, and thus his "the strong rule the weak" and "conquer everything" mentality. All his rationalizations and everything that he explained to Reginn and Askr during his crazy talk here are probably him scrambling to cling to some sense of reason as his mind falls apart.

If all this is the case, then he's probably actually the big bad of the book and will die at the end, but see it as a sort of release. Meanwhile, Yellow Kiran may be a future enemy we don't fight in this book, and probably has an "unhooded form" we can look forward to seeing someday. Also, this would make Otr the lieutenant. He's being affected by Fafnir's madness somehow, but he puts Fafnir on too much of a pedestal to fight against him, I think.

I may have had other insights, but if I did, I don't remember them right now. Time to read what everyone else thinks. 🙂

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I fear book V might be setting itself up to repeat the exact same formula of all the other books

- ''Oh no! super evil conqueror is invincible! We can't beat him!''
- ''We must retreat! Oh no! Our escape route is being cut off!''
- ''We're still fleeing! Oh no! Our escape route is again cut off and super evil conqueror is on our heels!''
- '' We still can't hurt the super evil conqueror! We must find the mighty MacGuffin!''
- ''We found the mighty MacGuffin! Now lets battle our way to the super evil conqueror's castle!
- '''We did it! We defeated the super evil conqueror! See you in the next book!'' 

Can't they maybe shake up the formula a bit? I know the odds must be against Alfonse and co, but throughout practically all the books they are constantly on the retreat while searching for the mighty MacGuffin. They couldn't beat Surtr and needed to find the Mighty McGuffin, they couldn't beat Hell and needed to find the mighty McGuffin, they couldn't defeat Freyja so they had to kill the mighty MacGuffin and now they can't defeat Fafnir. Maybe they need to search for the mighty MacGuffin!!!!

Fafnir does seem to be Surtr 2. I recall Surtr having a very effective speech to showcase how evil he is. Something about burning people and watching the flesh fall from their bones. And now Fafnir has a very effective speech about how evil he is about cutting out poor Sharena's eyes and feeding them to Alfonse. Lets just hope Fafnir gets to be something other then just really evil, and lets hope he doesn't massively overstay his welcome. Surtr 2 isn't a terrible idea if its done to remove the reasons Surtr didn't work, but if they replicate the reasons he didn't work then it might lead to Fafnir being terrible too. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

but I wonder if we'll get return appearances from Hrid and Leavateinn just because their countries might get threatened.

I hope so too! Even cameos would be pretty neat. It is curious that Otr treats invading Hel and the Alfr realms as simple, given how detached they seemed to be otherwise. Hmm...

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Sounds like someone weaponized the royal Emblian ability.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this! Specifically it seems to be the exact opposite of Breidablik. I still think Bruno and Veronica's curse will only be lifted in a story about Alfador or Embla again, but this would be a nice bit of background lore if this gun turns out to be how they were cursed as you say.

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Also, she smol. I significantly underestimated how diminutive she would be.

Same here!

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

It has something that looks like a face at the top. Could this be a visual cue of Yellow Kiran controlling him?

I hadn't thought of that, but you could be onto something! It's also a neat reference to his dragon form.

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Okay, so if Fafnir was a creation of Yellow Kiran's, long ago, and then escaped into the war-torn Nidvalir (if I'm remembering that spelling right)

This is a really great theory! I too was suspicious of Fafnir saying the earliest thing he remembered was a battlefield, but I didn't connect the dots between that and him being "Summoned". Either one would work too, considering all we know of Fafnir is that he was a soldier who appeared out of nowhere and united Nidavellir: and if he really did appear out of nowhere on a battlefield...

Of course, it'd also make things bittersweet if he literally only came into being as a result of that experiment.

As for Otr becoming much more suspicious by egging Fafnir on: maybe he's actually the faux-Kiran? The timeline of events is still up in the air of course, but still.

P.S. Why do you call him Yellow Kiran? He had much more muted colors (such as a grey shirt) than our one, unless I'm seriously misremembering. I'm just curious 🙂

Thanks for another great set of theories!

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2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this! Specifically it seems to be the exact opposite of Breidablik.

I hadn't thought of that, but you could be onto something! It's also a neat reference to his dragon form.

Nice catch! It could be that Yellow Kiran was making/trying to make the weapon Otr referenced when he (maybe) summoned Fafnir -- a sort of anti-Breidablik. But it seemed more like he was trying to summon, rather than trying to hit the "send home" option in the barracks. Still, it's certainly a possible connection to keep in mind.

Quote

I still think Bruno and Veronica's curse will only be lifted in a story about Alfador or Embla again,

I think so too, but that doesn't mean that that plot can't advance. Advancement is not necessarily resolution.

Quote

This is a really great theory! I too was suspicious of Fafnir saying the earliest thing he remembered was a battlefield, but I didn't connect the dots between that and him being "Summoned". Either one would work too, considering all we know of Fafnir is that he was a soldier who appeared out of nowhere and united Nidavellir: and if he really did appear out of nowhere on a battlefield...

Of course, it'd also make things bittersweet if he literally only came into being as a result of that experiment.

As for Otr becoming much more suspicious by egging Fafnir on: maybe he's actually the faux-Kiran? The timeline of events is still up in the air of course, but still.

Thanks. 🙂

As for Otr, just because he's acting suspicious now doesn't mean we should discount what has already been revealed about him. He's been with Reginn since they were little, so he has an alibi. Plus, there was how he was acting in the previous chapter, talking to himself a bit crazily, then snapping out of it and wondering why he was thinking things like that. I ddi momentarily wonder if he was Yellow Kiran, but it doesn't match up with other things that we already know about him. Eitri might know something about Yellow Kiran, though, since Yellow Kiran seems like some sort of scientist, and Eitri is an inventor, herself (at least, I think that was mentioned.) Either way, she's a sage and sages classically have key information for protagonists.

Quote

P.S. Why do you call him Yellow Kiran? He had much more muted colors (such as a grey shirt) than our one, unless I'm seriously misremembering. I'm just curious

I call him that because he's Kiran with a pale yellow filter over him. The shirt only looks gray because it's that regular blue with the filter. The filter washes out and yellows the colors. Makes sense, given the general color scheme of this book. Nidvalir (or however you spell it) is absolutely covered in yellow smog, and there's the yellow in the mechs' designs, the brass mechanisms, the yellow mirror... Understandably, IS kept to a specific color palette for uniformity, and to adhere to a specific look and feel unique to this book.

Quote

Thanks for another great set of theories!

Thanks for appreciating them! ^_^ It's so much more fun when I have someone to talk to about them/ work on them with.

Edit: I kept hitting "spoiler" instead of "quote."

Edited by Mercakete
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Reminder that Marvel portrayed Eitri like this in Infinity War:

Spoiler

latest?cb=20180818223004

Then again, they've also already gender-bent Loki, Thor, and Reginn so their Eitri being female (and a loli on top of that) is just par for the course at this point.

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6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fafnir does seem to be Surtr 2. I recall Surtr having a very effective speech to showcase how evil he is. Something about burning people and watching the flesh fall from their bones. And now Fafnir has a very effective speech about how evil he is about cutting out poor Sharena's eyes and feeding them to Alfonse. Lets just hope Fafnir gets to be something other then just really evil, and lets hope he doesn't massively overstay his welcome. Surtr 2 isn't a terrible idea if its done to remove the reasons Surtr didn't work, but if they replicate the reasons he didn't work then it might lead to Fafnir being terrible too. 

I mean the only reason Surtr didn’t work was because the characters he was interacting with were about as flat as Cordelia’s chest. Pure evil villains like that only really work when they force our protagonists into helpless situations that force them to react in ways that instigate interesting and nuanced conflict. The problem with that is that none of the characters being challenged by surtr have any depth to them at least at that point. The conflict Surtr instigates doesn’t really effect the characters in any meaningful way except for Laegjarn and Helbindi and that’s the main issue.

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6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I hope so too! Even cameos would be pretty neat. It is curious that Otr treats invading Hel and the Alfr realms as simple, given how detached they seemed to be otherwise. Hmm...

Kind of felt a little too on the nose that of all countries Otr could mention, he just names off ones we've already been to. 😄

Guess IS didn't want to come up with any new ones. 

You know, it kind of makes me wish we could explore some of these other countries. Given that Muspell also conquered 1 or 2 other places before Nifl, there seems to be many other countries out there outside of what we've seen so far. It'd be nice to see more, though I guess that's partially depend on how long they intend for Heroes' story to be.

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3 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Reminder that Marvel portrayed Eitri like this in Infinity War:

  Reveal hidden contents

latest?cb=20180818223004

Then again, they've also already gender-bent Loki, Thor, and Reginn so their Eitri being female (and a loli on top of that) is just par for the course at this point.

Ah, so the character was a blank rectangle? 😛 Gotta love those blank rectangles.

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15 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fafnir does seem to be Surtr 2. I recall Surtr having a very effective speech to showcase how evil he is. Something about burning people and watching the flesh fall from their bones. And now Fafnir has a very effective speech about how evil he is about cutting out poor Sharena's eyes and feeding them to Alfonse. Lets just hope Fafnir gets to be something other then just really evil, and lets hope he doesn't massively overstay his welcome. Surtr 2 isn't a terrible idea if its done to remove the reasons Surtr didn't work, but if they replicate the reasons he didn't work then it might lead to Fafnir being terrible too. 

I actually dont feel that way. Fafnir seems to have more nuance due to his yet not revealed back story. He is/was a beloved brother. Surtr on the other hand i mean, he was just flat, he even sacrificed his daugthers for his goal and there was no nuance or backstory to him.

But as we know FEH storytelling the backstory will never make it into the game and the ending will resolve in a smokescreen with big dissapointment, so yeah Fafnir might as well be flat.

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On 1/9/2021 at 12:56 AM, Ottservia said:

I mean the only reason Surtr didn’t work was because the characters he was interacting with were about as flat as Cordelia’s chest. Pure evil villains like that only really work when they force our protagonists into helpless situations that force them to react in ways that instigate interesting and nuanced conflict. The problem with that is that none of the characters being challenged by surtr have any depth to them at least at that point. The conflict Surtr instigates doesn’t really effect the characters in any meaningful way except for Laegjarn and Helbindi and that’s the main issue.

It certainly didn't help no. 

But the main problem is a lack of charm. The sort of villain Surtr is trying to be can work if the villain has enough of charm to carry any scene, and force the audience to be invested in his evil gloating. Surtr does not possess such charm. He's no Lekain, he's no Metalface and he's certainly no Hades. 

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Just too bad we'll likely have to wait a while to see where the next chapter goes. Late January will likely be either seasonal or something like TMS Part 2 (which would end up as a Paralogue), and then Early February is typically Valentines.

So yeah, Late February.

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On 1/8/2021 at 8:38 PM, Mercakete said:

I call him that because he's Kiran with a pale yellow filter over him. The shirt only looks gray because it's that regular blue with the filter. [...] Understandably, IS kept to a specific color palette for uniformity, and to adhere to a specific look and feel unique to this book.

Ah, got it! Thank you very much! The uniformity makes a ton of sense too, thanks again!

On 1/8/2021 at 8:38 PM, Mercakete said:

As for Otr, just because he's acting suspicious now doesn't mean we should discount what has already been revealed about him. He's been with Reginn since they were little, so he has an alibi. Plus, there was how he was acting in the previous chapter, talking to himself a bit crazily, then snapping out of it and wondering why he was thinking things like that. I ddi momentarily wonder if he was Yellow Kiran, but it doesn't match up with other things that we already know about him.

That's fair. As we said before, it's possible both of them are going crazy and Otr's just displaying more symptoms of that.

On 1/9/2021 at 1:33 AM, Sentinel07 said:

Kind of felt a little too on the nose that of all countries Otr could mention, he just names off ones we've already been to. 😄

Guess IS didn't want to come up with any new ones.

Especially in the order we went to them!

In-universe though: at this point we've seen almost all of the Nine Realms, so just looking at probabilities it's reasonable that the examples he brought up were ones we've already seen. (And to be fair to IS, they probably don't want to spoil the last two Realms just yet.)

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4 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Ah, got it! Thank you very much! The uniformity makes a ton of sense too, thanks again!

That's fair. As we said before, it's possible both of them are going crazy and Otr's just displaying more symptoms of that.

Especially in the order we went to them!

In-universe though: at this point we've seen almost all of the Nine Realms, so just looking at probabilities it's reasonable that the examples he brought up were ones we've already seen. (And to be fair to IS, they probably don't want to spoil the last two Realms just yet.)

I just wonder if they ever might consider just showing off new countries rather than entire realms. There seem to be many indications that Askr and Embla are perhaps not the only countries of Midgard.

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38 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

I just wonder if they ever might consider just showing off new countries rather than entire realms. There seem to be many indications that Askr and Embla are perhaps not the only countries of Midgard.

That's fair. Besides, FEH shows no signs of stopping right now, so additional countries would be a great way to add more story once Alfonse kills Odin and frees Embla~

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