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Book V Speculation and Discussion Thread

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11 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I hope the next book isn't ready to shake things up. Maybe not yet another member of Alfonse's harem when it comes to the new OC but perhaps a guy? No more hunts for the mighty mcGuffin, a bigger focus on Sharena instead of Alfonse.

So...more like Book 4, but better? (...outside of That One Chapter, of course.) But yeah, I'd like to see a male F2P OC character as well, but I'm not sure if/when we'll get one. 

I think Book 6 may start to dig into the Big Picture of what's going on with Askr, assuming that the game tries to tie in the latest New Heroes lore bit into the main story. I don't have much hope that they will, given that it took them nearly five years to turn the Tempest Trials into a character progressing event. (Something I hope they keep up after Fjorm's story finishes.) But this game has surprised me before.

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The format did let Otr down, but so did the writing. Otr's situation seems to be one born of trauma and a desire to belong as he wants to be a family with Fafnir as he saved him (and Reginn) from his lowest and gave him a home and a person to look up to, to the point that it became something of an obsession to keep him even if it restricted Fafnir from getting what he truly desired. That is something that could be interesting, but dealing with that type of psychological trauma and unhealthy attachment requires a lot more attention to it then just a short monologue from the person themselves, we need to see them start at a place of sanity and then watch them slip further and further until they become irrational and sorely guided by keeping the object of their affection to themselves. Otr never got a true chance to show that, we do see him act somewhat normally at the beginning as his initial concern is figuring out Reginn's situation rather then just pleasing Fafnir, but the switch quickly goes off with him in Chapter 2 and after that point he remains obsessed with Fafnir and immediately jumps into going to great lengths to keep Fafnir with him. We don't even get hints to his backstory, they just dropped it on us right now with little else to it. 

The character falls short as neither the story or the format serves him well, they want him to be a tragic character but it feels that only recently do they truly commit to the idea. He needed more attention to his history then what was given, and he needed a better progression (or rather degression) from his start to finish. 

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26 minutes ago, Medeus said:

The format did let Otr down, but so did the writing. Otr's situation seems to be one born of trauma and a desire to belong as he wants to be a family with Fafnir as he saved him (and Reginn) from his lowest and gave him a home and a person to look up to, to the point that it became something of an obsession to keep him even if it restricted Fafnir from getting what he truly desired. That is something that could be interesting, but dealing with that type of psychological trauma and unhealthy attachment requires a lot more attention to it then just a short monologue from the person themselves, we need to see them start at a place of sanity and then watch them slip further and further until they become irrational and sorely guided by keeping the object of their affection to themselves. Otr never got a true chance to show that, we do see him act somewhat normally at the beginning as his initial concern is figuring out Reginn's situation rather then just pleasing Fafnir, but the switch quickly goes off with him in Chapter 2 and after that point he remains obsessed with Fafnir and immediately jumps into going to great lengths to keep Fafnir with him. We don't even get hints to his backstory, they just dropped it on us right now with little else to it. 

The character falls short as neither the story or the format serves him well, they want him to be a tragic character but it feels that only recently do they truly commit to the idea. He needed more attention to his history then what was given, and he needed a better progression (or rather degression) from his start to finish. 

I agree with a lot of this, but I still pin it on format. The story itself isn't the problem, but rather how it's presented. In addition, I don't think the psychological issues are the primary reason for him going crazy. Otherwise, he would have been displaying this behavior for a lot longer than he has been. It's not that the psychological issues don't exist, of course, but I don't think that they would have normally gotten this out of hand. I also think that this is partially why we didn't get a zoomed-in view of what was going on with him (they may be saving "the crown was affecting Otr too" for later, probably via Eitri evil monologue.) Though he was shown to be getting steadily less sane, the format didn't let him be focused on in enough detail for it to be obvious.

But anyway, the biggest factor here is that, I believe, IS doesn't care about Otr as a character as much as they care about Reginn as a character. Otr (as a plot device) is meant to be a foil to Reginn. So long as Otr is resisting being a happy family again, Reginn can't achieve her primary objective. This is even more true if Otr is actively keeping Fafnir and Reginn apart, as he's been doing. In short, Otr is a Reginn accessory, so IS wasn't about to focus on his development. The giant sisters got a pass because they're ladies, I think, so they at least got those little clips about their relationship when they became summonable (basically, IS was more emotionally invested in them than they were in Otr, probably.) Otr needed more attention in order to show his story better, but since he's not the one IS wants to focus on, he didn't get the focus.

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On 9/20/2021 at 4:09 AM, Sunwoo said:

I expected nothing, but somehow I'm still disappointed.

Assuming that they're not changing up the 13-chapter formula (which, you know, why would they) they're going to cram a shit ton of story in the last two chapters and it's going to be rushed as fuuuuck. There really wasn't a point in the ~S U R P R I S E T W I S T~ of Otr and Reginn not actually being siblings. Even if Reginn reacted to it at all, it didn't change anything fundamentally ... well, except that Reginn is the only SUPER SPESHUL one of the three because of course she is.

Don't even need to wait for the end for me to call it. Book 3 was the pinnacle of FEH's writing for me, and even then Book 3 wasn't all that spectacular anyway.

 Surprisingly I don't think it will be that rushed this time (I hope...). I mean, Ótr is already dead and the Askr group already knows that Reggin is royalty and they also have Gramr now, so all they need to do is to use it to kill Fafnir, and then we will very likely have to defeat Eitri too. thats it. And we still have 2 chapters left so it should probably be ok in terms of fitting the remainning amount of story left into these final maps (of course, if I$ uses this time well and doesn't make us defeat Eitri like 4 times, wiith the first 3 being just a "survive chapter" with her being invincible).  Maybe we will get some kind of cutscene with Ótr (being ressurrected by the lamest and laziest excuse possible) joining Líf's group but this will either be a separated cutscene like in Book 4 or a xenologue, So there's not a lot of things that can ruin books 5's pace now (again, I hope)

 

On 9/21/2021 at 5:04 AM, Sunwoo said:

Not that I gave two shits about Otr anyway, but if he were a female character I wonder if that bad attempt at making the player feel sympathy would've suckered more (male) people into feeling sorry for Otr. This feels like the same dumb backstory drama they gave Plumeria and Triandra (and I felt nothing for them either).

But yeah, Otr's backstory just feels dumb. It would've honestly made as much sense if he were Reginn's older half brother who was a bastard prince, and he resents her because she's the legitimate princess and got all the love and adoration and birthright of the kingdom.

 Yeah, I kinda like Ótr, but its more because of personal taste than anything, not really for beliving that he was nicely written, the backstory really felt like a final "pitty me" card before he dies (even tough I liked to watch it...). And to be honest, he was basically just a gay Freyja (so there's your answer, about whether more people would have pittied a female Ótr, just think about how many people liked, pittied, simped or even rooted for Freyja), It felt pretty lazy specially since he was created right in the following book after her appearence, its like I$ tought "oh, Freyja was really well received, so let us do the next's book villain somewhat like her" (kinda like they made Triandra and Plumeria be somewhat like Líf and Thrasir, but this time in a painfully obvious way)

Edited by ARMADS!!!

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I didn't expect Nott to just die like that; it brought back memories of how Book 2's ending killed Laegjarn and Helbindi seemingly at random too. Granted, the presentation suffers from the VN format and detailed art (not to mention numerous artists) so it isn't entirely the story's fault: compare that to Dragalia Lost's slightly chibi artstyle, where all the characters are drawn in-house - it's easy to add facial expressions and move the sprites around there, so it's a trade-off between complexity and expressivity in both of their approaches to art.

Still, Fafnir died and leaves Eitri behind for the finale. I wonder if she'll be Green to keep the meme going (though it would be interesting if Odin was the only main antagonist with an advantage over Alfonse). I was surprised that Fafnir had another name, as well as a wife and child though. It made me wonder if he of all people was Eir's true parent, but that wouldn't explain her immense life force (unless that power came from her mother or far back in her lineage).

It was nice seeing Reginn declare herself the Princess outright. It could have been bravado on her part, but it was a pleasant surprise: I thought she'd be in denial about that.

And with that, we only have one chapter to go, with Book 6 coming the month after! Say what you will about FEH's writing, but I'm always excited to see what they adapt next (not to mention the cinematics!)

Edited by DefyingFates

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Yeah, the Nott bit felt very random. At least with Laegjarn and Helbindi there was actual buildup/

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Yeah….

Spoiler

I doubt Nótt will stay dead given Laegjarn (might I add it was random and unnecessary she’s like strong AF with a armored guardian bird and she goes down to a single cut?! yeah SURE IS Heroes story amirite…..)their story hasn’t even started it’s very future TT baiting can’t wait for Sun and Moon 1-5 in the future with summonable Queen Jötun and potentially their father with Asendent versions of Nótt and Dagr)

 

Edited by Mage Goddess Lysithea

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Nott getting killed was not a surprise. I had a feeling ever since the video they made on their backstory that one was going to die.

Ho hum chapter overall. Of course, they still refuse to give any more information on who Fafnir was before he was summoned. A shame but not unexpected.

Now for Eitri and whatever Book 6 will be.

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9 hours ago, DefyingFates said:
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I didn't expect Nott to just die like that; it brought back memories of how Book 2's ending killed Laegjarn and Helbindi seemingly at random too. Granted, the presentation suffers from the VN format and detailed art (not to mention numerous artists) so it isn't entirely the story's fault: compare that to Dragalia Lost's slightly chibi artstyle, where all the characters are drawn in-house - it's easy to add facial expressions and move the sprites around there, so it's a trade-off between complexity and expressivity in both of their approaches to art.

Still, Fafnir died and leaves Eitri behind for the finale. I wonder if she'll be Green to keep the meme going (though it would be interesting if Odin was the only main antagonist with an advantage over Alfonse). I was surprised that Fafnir had another name, as well as a wife and child though. It made me wonder if he of all people was Eir's true parent, but that wouldn't explain her immense life force (unless that power came from her mother or far back in her lineage).

It was nice seeing Reginn declare herself the Princess outright. It could have been bravado on her part, but it was a pleasant surprise: I thought she'd be in denial about that.

And with that, we only have one chapter to go, with Book 6 coming the month after! Say what you will about FEH's writing, but I'm always excited to see what they adapt next (not to mention the cinematics!)

Spoiler

Yes, the deaths should have some kind of cinematic, all of them: Ótr, Nótt and Fáfnir (with Reggin wielding Grarm of course). Nótt's felt particularly unecessary (sad as fuck, but still) it gave me the impression that they only did this so Dagr would be the future queen or to make Fafnir look more dangerous so they killed the least important character there (or maybe to avoid declaring one of the sisters as stronger), at least her final moments were well written (the circunstances not so much). Well, hope we will see Nótt at the new year banner at least.

 Actually, Ótr's was probably more random or unecessary but I rather think that he died in such a degrading way as a form of paying for what he did, since he was the one who helped to transform Fafnir into a dragon, so he was kind off killed by his own actions (and by the only person he cared about)

  I was surprised about Fafnir's life too, I just wish we could get to know his name though, like HE WAS ABOUT TO FUCKING SAY IT (I just imagine if he said "My name... was... Alfonse", probably everyone would be pissed). I wonder if his name was important and Eitri will tell us later who he was or if he was just some random guy (I also have the impression that the names Reggin told us, about the people in the pictures of Nidavellir's castle might be important someday too?). Speakinng of Eitri, I don't think she should be green, but she will likely not be blue and have advantage over Alfonse either. For me, Red or Grey are the colors that suit her the most.

 

 And it was just me or this chapter felt... considerably shorter than most of the others?

Spoiler

It was basically just beating Fafnir 4 or 5 times and two deaths in a row.

 

 Also, I'm pretty sure Fafnir wasn't Eir's true father, he was summoned by Eitri not too much time ago (probably some 10 or 15 years ago? considering Ótr's and Reggin's ages) and Eir wasn't a child anymore by then (Hel took her when she was a baby, centuries ago). And Hel suposelly killed Eir's parents so her actual father should be dead anyway (Ok, they could pull the "Except that he was always alive" card here but still), also Fafnir says that he was a soldier of a small country who had to fight to provide for his family while Hel tells Eir that her true parents were royalty so providing for Eir shouldn't have been an issue. Eir's powers surely came at least from her mother (she said to Hel that she remembers her mother having white wings), but still Fafnir is probably way younger than Eir and also had to provide for his family while he rose at the military and "just wanted his family to have a good life", and if he was royalty from a kingdom this wouldn't happen. But I have to admit that his appearence (abnormally pale with fair blue eyes) resembles Eir's so (in addiction with him having a daughter and being from someplace else) I see where you're coming from.

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I ... honestly have to wonder if IS thinks they're making a good story or not, or if they're just doing whatever to manipulate as many people's emotions to make them invested in this shit.

Heroes has a storytelling problem that I complained about on another thread, that IS goes for cheap "feels" to get reactions from the most emotional players, but is difficult to take seriously if one sits down and actually thinks about the logic (or lack thereof) behind all of it because there is no proper groundwork. Like, I legit forgot Dagr and Nott were even present until the beginning of the chapter when they spoke, and we didn't really get to know them anyway. We didn't even really need them in the story either. They killed off Nott just because they wanted some players to cry and think IS wrote a masterpiece.

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So, Nott was apparently so pointless that she had to die but Mirabilis got to live through her book? IS can't even pick the right filler characters to kill off now.

Also, let it now be stated that being a FEH OC and an eldest sister means you're going to die (and may or may not be revived like Laegjarn or Triandra), and it may or may not have a point or meaning.

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Yeah, Nott's death here felt akin to Lilith's in a lot of ways: She appears, pretty much becomes irrelevant for most of the Book, and then finally becomes relevant again to die and create a moment of emotion. To her credit she dies to the final boss unlike Lilith getting offed by a common enemy or a glorified bandit boss, but it's still a weak send-off for the character since she barely had a chance for us to get to know her in the story proper before she was killed off. What makes this worse is that I can see where they were going with the story, but FEH's limited storytelling and presentation ruins the effect of it. 

Fafnir's was more meaningful, if only because he actually had focus on his plight. 

 

 

Edited by Medeus

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32 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I ... honestly have to wonder if IS thinks they're making a good story or not, or if they're just doing whatever to manipulate as many people's emotions to make them invested in this shit.

They killed off Nott just because they wanted some players to cry and think IS wrote a masterpiece.

I actually don't think they do. The story of Heroes has always been characterized by a real lack of ambition and I think this mostly stems from IS not believing they need to write anything more than an excuse plot. 

On some level I think IS might be legitimately fond of team Askr, and Alfonse in particular so its no surprise that the book that focused chiefly on Alfonse was the strongest one. But while they might enjoy characterizing Alfonse and making Sharena say cute things I suspect no one on the writing team actually enjoys writing the Heroes story or puts much work in it. The way each book except book 4 almost entirely recycles the same script is really telling. Its also telling that they resolved Sharena's subplot in the last book by basically saying ''We don't care about this plot point and neither should you''.

That and they've long since given up including any of the Fire Emblem characters into the story which implies either a lack of interest or an abundance of laziness. 

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10 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

So, Nott was apparently so pointless that she had to die but Mirabilis got to live through her book? IS can't even pick the right filler characters to kill off now.

Also, let it now be stated that being a FEH OC and an eldest sister means you're going to die (and may or may not be revived like Laegjarn or Triandra), and it may or may not have a point or meaning.

 Well, there's Triandra. But I guess every rule has an exception.

 

10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually don't think they do. The story of Heroes has always been characterized by a real lack of ambition and I think this mostly stems from IS not believing they need to write anything more than an excuse plot. 

On some level I think IS might be legitimately fond of team Askr, and Alfonse in particular so its no surprise that the book that focused chiefly on Alfonse was the strongest one. But while they might enjoy characterizing Alfonse and making Sharena say cute things I suspect no one on the writing team actually enjoys writing the Heroes story or puts much work in it. The way each book except book 4 almost entirely recycles the same script is really telling. Its also telling that they resolved Sharena's subplot in the last book by basically saying ''We don't care about this plot point and neither should you''.

That and they've long since given up including any of the Fire Emblem characters into the story which implies either a lack of interest or an abundance of laziness. 

 Except book IV but not really. We have a "except that he wasn't himself" moment (with Kiralfonse), Plumeria and Triandra are clearly a baiting for Líf's and Thrasir's fans (they are in a similar situation as them, have similar characteristics, edgy appeal from Triandra, they even joint Líf and Thrasir in the end), Freyja is the brocon boss (since Veronica is not really brocon we can say that this was kinda new at book IV's time, but now we have Ótr sooo) who apparently can't live without her brother (again, like Ótr), we have to fight Freyja dozens of times too (and also we have the "oh, the villain is invincible using that random thing, now we have to find some other random thing that can anull it's powers so we can finally defeat the villain for the 500th time in a row" except that Freyja is only invincible plot wise but can actually be defeated in the game), lots of unecessarily cheap deaths and plot twists too (I agree with you though that its a wonder that Mirabillis is alive, maybe they have some kind of "at least one OC with the exception of the free unit can't die"), stupidly exagerated sad backstories because "please, pitty me" (like, I remember to be laughing during triandra's backtory revelation ,I'm pretty sure this wasn't the intended reaction IS wanted), "Oh! I'm going to die? Then let me spill my backtory to you real quick so you can feel sad", and there's probably even more things but I don't want to think about it now.

 Yeah, it has to be one purpouse, it just HAS TO. They ignore, forget or retcon stuff all the time (sometimes they regret a decision and bring characters back to life or randomly talk about long forgotten plots or stuff that shouldn't have been forgotten, like when they released pirate Veronica I'm pretty sure most people thought that Xander had been retconned as her retainer), somethimes I even have the impression that they write each CHAPTER without thinking fully about the next one. Everything is so inconscintent that I'm even afraid that they'll drop Book III's plot for real and never tell us about Eir's past, the dragon of life, the triad cataclysm or Agrboda. If its a good story, the fans shouldn't be constantly worried about how lazy or bad it might be and if something important will be adressed or not. When the fans are happy whenever they get a good or well written part/character instead of being pissed that they got a bad or poorly written part/character in the story, it surely isn't a good story! (or at least a well written one, you can even find it good, who knowa)

 I blame a little the fact that its an ongoing story that lasts for years, switching most of the cast each year, so keeping the interest must not be really easy. Well if it was then they wouldn't be leaning on meaningless plot twists, cheap deaths and a lame formula to write it.

 But I have to admit, as bad and lazy as this story is, I always have an abnormal amount of interest in it anyway (but I like it mostly because its so bad that is good), and sometimes they even do some cool plot twists that I couldn't predict.

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Okay, before I read anything here, I finally got the chance to go through the story chapters and...dang. This was somber. First, I wanted Dagr to win queenship, but not like this. And then there was the state of the castle. There's pretty much no one running things now -- it's just violence and chaos. And then there's Fafnir... Man, we never even actually got to hear his real name. That was a sad scene...but I'm glad we finally got to meet the Fafnir Reginn knew when she was younger: the kind, gentle, and strong man who took care of those weaker than him. Poor guy was just a victim in all this, but even so, he showed compassion in his final moments. He could have been bitter or angry for being used like that, or expressing regret from being taken from his wife and daughter, but instead he was sensitive to Reginn's feelings and reassured her. He wasn't even mad at Otr for his part (maybe he knew something was wrong with Otr and so he didn't blame him, or maybe he was so focused on regaining his memories and taking care of Reginn that he didn't think too deeply about what Otr did.) The guy was just full of gentle forgiveness. Dang. Man, this guy was great. I feel so bad for him... It would've been nice to see him returned home, or get to experience his true self more. But man, it's just especially sad that we don't even know his real name...

Okay, I stayed in that for a little while. But, sadly, there are some critiques, too.

First off, of course Nott died. It's Gunnthra/Laegjarn/Triandra all over again (even though the latter 2 did in fact come back, and all three of them got seasonal alts, so...) Older sisters always die in FEH, and usually they're the "wise and graceful" types. Heck, even Fjorm (who is also an older sister because of Ylgr) was dying for about a year there before Nifl was all "nevermind; fight for me instead." Sharena, Veronica, Peony, Reginn, Ylgr, and Dagr are all safe because they're the youngest sisters (Lif's Sharena doesn't count, and I believe Freyja is just in a coma, and Thrasir is undead, but from a world in which everyone died, so... That said, Helbindi's sister DID die, so there's that, but she never got any screen time so I don't know whether to count her or not.) Brothers are few and far in between comparatively, but they all seem to be pretty safe, too, but less so. Helbindi, Fafnir, Otr, and Freyr are the brothers we have who died. So, Bruno, Alfonse, and Hrid (the brothers who, thus far, have lived) are the lucky ones. Thinking about it, more brothers die than those who live, even though it's not by much. That said, it's a bigger percentage just because of how few men there are. So uh...yeah. No luck to the guys. Looks like the best chances of living a character has is to be a little sister. That said, we haven't seen many younger brothers. Hrid, Alfonse, Bruno, Freyr, and Fafnir were the eldest among their siblings. I think the only little brother we got was Otr. Which...well...is currently at a 100% death rate. So uh... Yeah. Be a little sister if you want to live. Even if you're a middle child, you have about a 50% chance to live even if you come close to dying (numbers taken from Gunnthra and Fjorm, who were both middle children.)

Secondly, why are Coyote's men fighting? Fafnir clearly doesn't have the mental capacity for commanding them, and Otr died. The best explanation I have is Eitri's playing with her new summon gun. I don't see us not offing her in the next chapter. I hope we get to see what she looked like when she summoned Fafnir. Was he not remembering her right? Did she used to be a man? If so, how did she turn into a young girl? Has the original Eitri been body-swapping in order to keep tinkering? ... Oh dang- Is the body he's in Fafnir's daughter?! Shoot, that'd be something. Maybe we'll get to hear Fafnir's real name from her.

Well, I didn't expect to think of that possibility. Anyway, here's what I'm hoping to learn from Eitri before the book is done: first, what Fafnir's real name is (though, I don't think she cares enough to know it, so we probably will never know his real name), second, confirmation as to what drove Otr nuts. Third, more about this realm's dragon. Fourth, how Eitri got to look the way she does now. SOMETHING happened, whether she reverse-aged, body-swapped, or her form froze in time, just because of how long she's been around and how youthful she looks.

I feel like I'm forgetting some important things. Anyway, this is as much as I was able to record before forgetting. Now, I'll take a look at what other people thought.

Edit:

@ARMADS!!!

I don't remember Eir saying her mom had wings at all. When was that?

Edited by Mercakete

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1 hour ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Except book IV but not really. We have a "except that he wasn't himself" moment (with Kiralfonse), Plumeria and Triandra are clearly a baiting for Líf's and Thrasir's fans (they are in a similar situation as them, have similar characteristics, edgy appeal from Triandra, they even joint Líf and Thrasir in the end), Freyja is the brocon boss (since Veronica is not really brocon we can say that this was kinda new at book IV's time, but now we have Ótr sooo) who apparently can't live without her brother (again, like Ótr), we have to fight Freyja dozens of times too (and also we have the "oh, the villain is invincible using that random thing, now we have to find some other random thing that can anull it's powers so we can finally defeat the villain for the 500th time in a row" except that Freyja is only invincible plot wise but can actually be defeated in the game), lots of unecessarily cheap deaths and plot twists too (I agree with you though that its a wonder that Mirabillis is alive, maybe they have some kind of "at least one OC with the exception of the free unit can't die"), stupidly exagerated sad backstories because "please, pitty me" (like, I remember to be laughing during triandra's backtory revelation ,I'm pretty sure this wasn't the intended reaction IS wanted), "Oh! I'm going to die? Then let me spill my backtory to you real quick so you can feel sad", and there's probably even more things but I don't want to think about it now.

Oh there's certainly a lot of overlap in book IV too. But it still feels a little different. The other books all start with some new conqueror villain settings its eye on Askr and invading, with the heroes then using the nearest portal to go to their realm and retreat constantly until they finally find the mighty mcuffin. And while there's plenty of retreating in book IV it doesn't start with an invasion. It starts with a somewhat more small scale adventure plot about being trapped in a dream and needing find a way out. And Freya is at least not so overly familiar as Hell, Surtr and Fafnir were to each other. 

It carries many of the same conventions the Heroes books stubbornly cling to but at least it manages to feel a little different. 

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11 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh there's certainly a lot of overlap in book IV too. But it still feels a little different. The other books all start with some new conqueror villain settings its eye on Askr and invading, with the heroes then using the nearest portal to go to their realm and retreat constantly until they finally find the mighty mcuffin. And while there's plenty of retreating in book IV it doesn't start with an invasion. It starts with a somewhat more small scale adventure plot about being trapped in a dream and needing find a way out. And Freya is at least not so overly familiar as Hell, Surtr and Fafnir were to each other. 

It carries many of the same conventions the Heroes books stubbornly cling to but at least it manages to feel a little different. 

People were falling asleep and not waking up in Askr. That's how it started. So, yeah, invasion from a conqueror was happening. And they did rush to the nearest portal. And how were Hel, Surtr, and Fafnir familiar to each other?

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13 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

People were falling asleep and not waking up in Askr. That's how it started. So, yeah, invasion from a conqueror was happening. And they did rush to the nearest portal. And how were Hel, Surtr, and Fafnir familiar to each other?

With Hell and Surtr it was very obvious they were inspired by the very Garonesque design philosophy. The obviously evil villain with no redeemable trait who's more of a plot device than a character. I suspect they were partially so devoid from any nuance to make their retainers look better by comparison. I recall some theories about Hell's relation with Eir, but as time went on it became clear there just wasn't any plan to make Hell anything but an obviously evil force of nature villain, just as Surtr had been before her. They're different in temperament of course but their role in the plot and design philosophy seems very similar. 

And Fafnir? He does branch out. But at the start he was essentially a mech wearing Surtr. The way he's introduced is really, really similar. The way they encounter him, can't damage him and how he cruelly starts gloating while describing the painful deaths he's going to give them. Fafiner's bit about ripping out eyeballs wasn't much different from Surtr's lecture about the specifics of burning people alive. 

Now I get what you mean about Freya technically being a conqueror. But people falling asleep and team Alfonse going on a Mushroom trip does feel different then yet another outright invasion. Partially because they aren't entirely aware it is an invasion or what's even happening. 

2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

stupidly exagerated sad backstories because "please, pitty me"

Oh certainly. I found the fairies backstories incredibly cartoony whenever it got brought up, and for some time I assumed it was just Freya making shit up, until brother dear revealed the cartoony backstories were indeed true. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

But man, it's just especially sad that we don't even know his real name...

I think that was done to add to the tragedy. While Nott's death was too random to make me feel anything, I did feel sorry for Fafnir. I wasn't bawling my eyes out or anything, but it was a sad enough moment.

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2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

With Hell and Surtr it was very obvious they were inspired by the very Garonesque design philosophy. The obviously evil villain with no redeemable trait who's more of a plot device than a character. I suspect they were partially so devoid from any nuance to make their retainers look better by comparison. I recall some theories about Hell's relation with Eir, but as time went on it became clear there just wasn't any plan to make Hell anything but an obviously evil force of nature villain, just as Surtr had been before her. They're different in temperament of course but their role in the plot and design philosophy seems very similar. 

And Fafnir? He does branch out. But at the start he was essentially a mech wearing Surtr. The way he's introduced is really, really similar. The way they encounter him, can't damage him and how he cruelly starts gloating while describing the painful deaths he's going to give them. Fafiner's bit about ripping out eyeballs wasn't much different from Surtr's lecture about the specifics of burning people alive. 

Now I get what you mean about Freya technically being a conqueror. But people falling asleep and team Alfonse going on a Mushroom trip does feel different then yet another outright invasion. Partially because they aren't entirely aware it is an invasion or what's even happening. 

So, please allow me to preface what I'm about to say (I'm writing this bit after writing what's below) with this disclaimer: I tried really hard to express my own take on stuff but it wound up sounding superior in tone and I did not mean that at all but I don't know how exactly else to say it (I am struggling with wording at the moment.) People can think what they think; I'm not saying people have to like or dislike anything. I was just trying to be all "Oh, I see what your take is now. Here, let me participate by giving mine." and kind of floundered. Anyway, if you're interested, you may proceed. =P

Ahh, I see what you were saying. You didn't mean that they somehow knew each other, but rather that their roles were similar, and that your personal opinion was that they came from similar places and acted in a similar way. They each hit me uniquely, but that's probably because (I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging or anything but I'm not sure how else to say it) I tend to go extremely deep into any given topic. Each small nuance is magnified to me, compared to how most people look at things, I've found. I tend to be able to reach a very deep understanding of people very quickly, characters included. That's probably why I always get so invested into characters and plot developments, even when everyone else is complaining. That doesn't mean I'll not see technical flaws, but I don't do surface. Hrm... I just can't quite word it right, but to me, the similarities you pointed out are as significant as saying "Marth and Caeda are sooo similar because they have the same hair color." There's so much more to these guys that make them super distinct to me. I feel like I've gotten to know each one of them as individuals. "The base story isn't bad, it's just the format doesn't give the player much to read. It requires inference." That's what I keep coming to...except in a few cases, mostly in book 4. Of course, I've been open about this throughout the story-focused threads, so I'm not going to go into it here.

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9 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Okay, before I read anything here, I finally got the chance to go through the story chapters and...dang. This was somber. First, I wanted Dagr to win queenship, but not like this. And then there was the state of the castle. There's pretty much no one running things now -- it's just violence and chaos. And then there's Fafnir... Man, we never even actually got to hear his real name. That was a sad scene...but I'm glad we finally got to meet the Fafnir Reginn knew when she was younger: the kind, gentle, and strong man who took care of those weaker than him. Poor guy was just a victim in all this, but even so, he showed compassion in his final moments. He could have been bitter or angry for being used like that, or expressing regret from being taken from his wife and daughter, but instead he was sensitive to Reginn's feelings and reassured her. He wasn't even mad at Otr for his part (maybe he knew something was wrong with Otr and so he didn't blame him, or maybe he was so focused on regaining his memories and taking care of Reginn that he didn't think too deeply about what Otr did.) The guy was just full of gentle forgiveness. Dang. Man, this guy was great. I feel so bad for him... It would've been nice to see him returned home, or get to experience his true self more. But man, it's just especially sad that we don't even know his real name...

Okay, I stayed in that for a little while. But, sadly, there are some critiques, too.

First off, of course Nott died. It's Gunnthra/Laegjarn/Triandra all over again (even though the latter 2 did in fact come back, and all three of them got seasonal alts, so...) Older sisters always die in FEH, and usually they're the "wise and graceful" types. Heck, even Fjorm (who is also an older sister because of Ylgr) was dying for about a year there before Nifl was all "nevermind; fight for me instead." Sharena, Veronica, Peony, Reginn, Ylgr, and Dagr are all safe because they're the youngest sisters (Lif's Sharena doesn't count, and I believe Freyja is just in a coma, and Thrasir is undead, but from a world in which everyone died, so... That said, Helbindi's sister DID die, so there's that, but she never got any screen time so I don't know whether to count her or not.) Brothers are few and far in between comparatively, but they all seem to be pretty safe, too, but less so. Helbindi, Fafnir, Otr, and Freyr are the brothers we have who died. So, Bruno, Alfonse, and Hrid (the brothers who, thus far, have lived) are the lucky ones. Thinking about it, more brothers die than those who live, even though it's not by much. That said, it's a bigger percentage just because of how few men there are. So uh...yeah. No luck to the guys. Looks like the best chances of living a character has is to be a little sister. That said, we haven't seen many younger brothers. Hrid, Alfonse, Bruno, Freyr, and Fafnir were the eldest among their siblings. I think the only little brother we got was Otr. Which...well...is currently at a 100% death rate. So uh... Yeah. Be a little sister if you want to live. Even if you're a middle child, you have about a 50% chance to live even if you come close to dying (numbers taken from Gunnthra and Fjorm, who were both middle children.)

Secondly, why are Coyote's men fighting? Fafnir clearly doesn't have the mental capacity for commanding them, and Otr died. The best explanation I have is Eitri's playing with her new summon gun. I don't see us not offing her in the next chapter. I hope we get to see what she looked like when she summoned Fafnir. Was he not remembering her right? Did she used to be a man? If so, how did she turn into a young girl? Has the original Eitri been body-swapping in order to keep tinkering? ... Oh dang- Is the body he's in Fafnir's daughter?! Shoot, that'd be something. Maybe we'll get to hear Fafnir's real name from her.

Well, I didn't expect to think of that possibility. Anyway, here's what I'm hoping to learn from Eitri before the book is done: first, what Fafnir's real name is (though, I don't think she cares enough to know it, so we probably will never know his real name), second, confirmation as to what drove Otr nuts. Third, more about this realm's dragon. Fourth, how Eitri got to look the way she does now. SOMETHING happened, whether she reverse-aged, body-swapped, or her form froze in time, just because of how long she's been around and how youthful she looks.

I feel like I'm forgetting some important things. Anyway, this is as much as I was able to record before forgetting. Now, I'll take a look at what other people thought.

Edit:

@ARMADS!!!

I don't remember Eir saying her mom had wings at all. When was that?

 Or his anger towards Ótr could be gone since he already killed him anyway.

  

 In book III chapter 13-4 part 4 (before battle), right after Eir "kills" Kiran, Hel says that her services are not longer needed and that she is now going to claim her life for the last time, Eir agrees but ask Hel to tell her the secrets of her dreams like she promised she would, she says "Why do I dimly remember us... winged in white?", then Hel says that it was not her but Eir's real mother (I don't know why did Eir had white wings before but doesn't have them anymore though).

 

 I think Coyote's man are fighting just because, like almost every other new hero does in the story chapters. Yeah, maybe they justify it this time with them being summoned by Eir's gun, but they don't really have to. There's no really a canonical motive for this anymore.

 

 Oh! It would be awesome if it was fafnir's daughter but I don't think it will be her since no one knows the kid so they wouldn't reconize if it was her, and also she is likely an adult or teenager now. I think that either Eitri keep switching bodies every few years for some motive (maybe to live longer, or maybe to run away after doing some crime kinda like Chuck from that 80s movie) or was victim of some curse or experience that turned against her(like Nyx, who was coincidently released in the same book Eitri appears). Also, is she a young girl? I always thought that she was just a midget.

 I don't think Nidavellir has a dragon, it is said that Nidavellir and Jotunheimr where only one kingdom and that they eventually became separated, so I think Jotunheimr has the dragon now while Nidavellir doesn't, maybe this is way Eitri wanted to turn Fafnir into one, to have a dragon to her country too?.

And I think Ótr's motive to go nuts was already told to us but was just really poorly written. I wrote this some time ago to post in a Reddit thread (but evetually I forgot to) about how Ótr going mad and saying that he hated Reggin at that moment made sense to me, I'm going to put it here, sorry it will be very long:

Spoiler

"He took care of reggin and very likely cared about her back them, but of course that he reconizes that he went throught way more hardships for having to take care of her than if would he was alone, like it would have been WAY easier if he had to take care of only himself, feed only himself, cover only himself in the winters, beg for money and food only for himself... and whatever else he may have had to do, than doing this for both him and Reggin  So while at the time Ótr faced a lot of hardships to take care of her, he might have thought it was worthy because he cared about her, but at the moment he was spiting his backstory he said that he always hated her because he felt like a fool for doing all he did for someone who is now willing to let Fafnir go and to betray Nidavellir. I think thats one of the motives that makes him admire Fafnir so much too, besides being "saved" by him, he knew the hardships to take care a kid that isn't even yours, and yet Fafnir happily did it for him and his "sister", and since Reggin never had to sacrifice so much for someone like this, she doesn't know how hard it is, Ótr probably never thought that she didn't realize this difficulty, so when he saw that she would allow Fafnir to go away, he may have thought that she was ungrateful (both to Fafnir who saved them, and to himself who did everything for her and yet she didn't apreciated it as much as he apreciates Fafnir) or he felt flustrated that she was going to make his life harder once again (now opposing to him and Fafnir) and so he regrets having saved her (when she was a baby) because if he didnt then Fafnir would still be with him. Basically, his hate for Reggin could be a lot more deep if written properly, either showing that he actually always resented her because he "had" to raise her (note I say resented because since he cares about her in the beggining of the book, I don't think he actually HATED her there, but started to in the events of the book as his resentment grew stronger to the point where he had to chose either Fafnir or Reggin), or because he started to hate her during the book for thinking she was an ungrateful little shit and felt bad about himself for once caring about her so he decided to say that he always hated Reggin only to hurt her or to convince himself that he didn't care about her before, or even that he didn't meant the "I always hated you" and said that because he was out of his mind and flustrated/because he wanted to hurt Reggin for being mad at her/because he wanted to convince himself that everything was Reggin's fault so he could feel less bad about what he did (separating his family, going to insane lenghts to keep Fafnir at his side, making Fafnir destroy Nidavellir which is the country he cared about, transforming his brother in a dragon and watching him in excrutiating pain everyday)."

 

Edited by ARMADS!!!

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10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh certainly. I found the fairies backstories incredibly cartoony whenever it got brought up, and for some time I assumed it was just Freya making shit up, until brother dear revealed the cartoony backstories were indeed true. 

Yeah, it was pretty stupid. Why couldn't they just have been actual fairies with non-human morals, not human children turned into fairies with a sob story?

It's hard to take anyone seriously anymore because it feels like IS trying to absolve every character they think may be remotely sellable because they're not capable of making good morally gray characters anymore.

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@Mercakete, I also like to take a deeper look at the characters like this (and I also want to note that I'm not trying to look like I thought I was superior or anything, its just an opinion too), for me Surtr, Hel, Freyja and Fafnir are clearly very different from each other too (even if they have some similar qualities, I never went to the point of thinking of any of them as equal to another, like I also see Surtr and Hel as basically plot devices but the way each of them think or their motives is not the same at all). For example, I was comparing Plumeria and Triandra to Líf and Thrasir before, they are totally different but I can see that they(the álfar) were done with some similar characteristics to Líf's and Thrasir's to attract their fans but while I can see that, they don't seem like copies or anything, not even close too, I just see their appeal to fans but see them as clearly new characters. Its kinda like comparing two characters of the same archetype in FE (like two Camus, or two "cinnamon rolls" from different FEs, or whatever) like, do you think that Camus is the same as Lloyd, Ishtar or Galle? Or that the pegasus sisters trio from Archanea are the same as the ones from FE6 and the ones from FE7? Probably not, You get the appeal (and can see their obvious similarities, like ususally the eldest pegasus knight from every group sister being the responsible and classy one, the misddle sister always being the hot headed and the younger always being the cute one) but they're clearly not the same, thats what happens with Heroes too but it seems like lots of people ignore it when its with FEH and assume them all kinda the same, because the game has a (very) harder time explicitly (or consistently) telling us how the characters minds work so you have to think about it by yourself otherwise most of the them they might look flat, and not everyone wants to think about how an irrelevant character of a poorly written mobile game thinks. I get it, FEH's story ABISMALLY suffers from poor format and bad writing sometimes, so to get to some conclusions you may have to have some extra investiment (and interest) in trying understanding that character, some people don't want to do it, and some want to, I personally like to think about the characters a lot and how different they are (even if they don't look to be), how they think, and how some of their stories are actually pretty cool but fell flat due to the storytelling, etc (like, for me these stuff I wrote about Ótr earlier became kinda obvious because I thought about it for some time, but since nothing of this was ever showed in the story like this, lots of people think that he just sudenly went crazy or something). Like you, I can't think of a word to it too but I think its probably a mix of heavy interest, investment, curiosity and some familiarity with the characters and the story (and maybe a lot of free time). Also, you write some stories right?(like those fan made supports you did), I also do it (and have been doing for some years now), so maybe when you write stories you start to think differently about the characters with time? (since you have to write dialogues for characters that are similar to each other and have to see how they are different, you have to know what the characters you write about would or wouldn't ever say or do, you have to think about what would lead them to do something, etc). It must happen even if you don't write if you one of those people who like to keep analysing every character they see too, you gain experience in doing it with time.

Again, I'm truly not trying to sound arrogant or anything (and really, sorry if I did), its just my opinion, and some speculation to why I think it makes sense, but feel free to disagree, agree or debate all you want. I'm not saying that I think I'm superior than anyone for thinking I'm being able to understand some stuff about characters from a random mobile game, its just that sometimes it weirds me out that something sounds obvious to me about some character but other people don't even notice it or confuse two characters that for me are very different. And I think thats kinda like how Mercakete feels too? Well, if not, at least they explained quite well the way I feel. 

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13 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 Or his anger towards Ótr could be gone since he already killed him anyway.

  

 In book III chapter 13-4 part 4 (before battle), right after Eir "kills" Kiran, Hel says that her services are not longer needed and that she is now going to claim her life for the last time, Eir agrees but ask Hel to tell her the secrets of her dreams like she promised she would, she says "Why do I dimly remember us... winged in white?", then Hel says that it was not her but Eir's real mother (I don't know why did Eir had white wings before but doesn't have them anymore though).

 

 I think Coyote's man are fighting just because, like almost every other new hero does in the story chapters. Yeah, maybe they justify it this time with them being summoned by Eir's gun, but they don't really have to. There's no really a canonical motive for this anymore.

 

 Oh! It would be awesome if it was fafnir's daughter but I don't think it will be her since no one knows the kid so they wouldn't reconize if it was her, and also she is likely an adult or teenager now. I think that either Eitri keep switching bodies every few years for some motive (maybe to live longer, or maybe to run away after doing some crime kinda like Chuck from that 80s movie) or was victim of some curse or experience that turned against her(like Nyx, who was coincidently released in the same book Eitri appears). Also, is she a young girl? I always thought that she was just a midget.

 I don't think Nidavellir has a dragon, it is said that Nidavellir and Jotunheimr where only one kingdom and that they eventually became separated, so I think Jotunheimr has the dragon now while Nidavellir doesn't, maybe this is way Eitri wanted to turn Fafnir into one, to have a dragon to her country too?.

And I think Ótr's motive to go nuts was already told to us but was just really poorly written. I wrote this some time ago to post in a Reddit thread (but evetually I forgot to) about how Ótr going mad and saying that he hated Reggin at that moment made sense to me, I'm going to put it here, sorry it will be very long:

  Reveal hidden contents

"He took care of reggin and very likely cared about her back them, but of course that he reconizes that he went throught way more hardships for having to take care of her than if would he was alone, like it would have been WAY easier if he had to take care of only himself, feed only himself, cover only himself in the winters, beg for money and food only for himself... and whatever else he may have had to do, than doing this for both him and Reggin  So while at the time Ótr faced a lot of hardships to take care of her, he might have thought it was worthy because he cared about her, but at the moment he was spiting his backstory he said that he always hated her because he felt like a fool for doing all he did for someone who is now willing to let Fafnir go and to betray Nidavellir. I think thats one of the motives that makes him admire Fafnir so much too, besides being "saved" by him, he knew the hardships to take care a kid that isn't even yours, and yet Fafnir happily did it for him and his "sister", and since Reggin never had to sacrifice so much for someone like this, she doesn't know how hard it is, Ótr probably never thought that she didn't realize this difficulty, so when he saw that she would allow Fafnir to go away, he may have thought that she was ungrateful (both to Fafnir who saved them, and to himself who did everything for her and yet she didn't apreciated it as much as he apreciates Fafnir) or he felt flustrated that she was going to make his life harder once again (now opposing to him and Fafnir) and so he regrets having saved her (when she was a baby) because if he didnt then Fafnir would still be with him. Basically, his hate for Reggin could be a lot more deep if written properly, either showing that he actually always resented her because he "had" to raise her (note I say resented because since he cares about her in the beggining of the book, I don't think he actually HATED her there, but started to in the events of the book as his resentment grew stronger to the point where he had to chose either Fafnir or Reggin), or because he started to hate her during the book for thinking she was an ungrateful little shit and felt bad about himself for once caring about her so he decided to say that he always hated Reggin only to hurt her or to convince himself that he didn't care about her before, or even that he didn't meant the "I always hated you" and said that because he was out of his mind and flustrated/because he wanted to hurt Reggin for being mad at her/because he wanted to convince himself that everything was Reggin's fault so he could feel less bad about what he did (separating his family, going to insane lenghts to keep Fafnir at his side, making Fafnir destroy Nidavellir which is the country he cared about, transforming his brother in a dragon and watching him in excrutiating pain everyday)."

 

I know you posted again but I'm going to handle this one at a time since there's a lot to unpack here.

On the topic of Fafnir's feelings toward Otr: That doesn't make much sense, given Fafnir's character, and the fact that he brought up younger Otr (plus, at the end, when he said that Reginn and Otr were also his real family.) At this point, Fafnir has fully reverted to his true self: the one who took care of Otr and Reginn as though they were his own true siblings. He's displaying nothing but love, endearment, and forgiveness for Otr, and overlooking Otr's destructive actions, rather than "well, he doesn't matter anymore since he died."

On the topic of Coyote's men, the reason I bring this up is because, until now, it has always been explainable. In book 1, Veronica was forcing heroes into contracts to serve her. In book 2, Surtr made a deal with Veronica, so she was using this same power to get heroes to serve him. In book 3, these were heroes found in the land of the dead, and so Hel had power over them (not to mention that they must have been summoned to Lif and Thrasir's Askr/Embla before their lands were swallowed up into Hel (location) and the summoner of that world was killed.) In book 4, they were nightmares. And in book 5, until now, it's not too hard to assume that these guys were conscripted using Nidavellir tech, especially since they were serving Otr and Fafnir in the Nidavellir army. This is why I puzzled out Eitri's involvement once Otr and Fafnir stopped being a controlling factor for these heroes, but was initially wondering why they didn't gain their freedom to act as they please since the guys they were bound to were either dead or monster-minded.

On the topic of Eir's mom having wings: I see. So, it was "winged" not "with wings." This could be a phrase just meaning that there was a white drape on her mother's shoulders. Could be that there were actual wings. But the fact that it was phrased so poetically calls into question if this was meant to be taken literally or not.

On the topic of Fafnir's daughter: time doesn't necessarily flow at the same rate in Fafnir's original world as it does in Midgard (Askr/Embla/etc.), so her being older than Eitri may not actually be the case. Just look at the outrealms in Fates. So, I'm not about to rule it out. And as for people not knowing what she looks like, I don't see that as a reason why it wouldn't be her, so much as a reason why it would be. People would recognize her as soon as they met Eitri if people knew what Fafnir's daughter looked like, and that would give Eitri away immediately. But the fact that Fafnir didn't remember his old life until now and that he only had a very limited amount of time in which to convey what he wanted to say only makes it more likely a possibility. It means that the one who would reveal it would be Eitri herself. Like, "I even summoned his daughter and possessed her body since her soul didn't come along with it." or something. That said, I'm not betting on this being the case. I just find it interesting how Fafnir mentioned having a daughter and Eitri happens to be a young girl who used to be an older man and we don't yet know how that happened. It's a possible connection, but not anything more.

On the topic of Nidavellir having a dragon, they actually are the ones with the dragon, not the giants. I believe it was Otr who mentioned it while talking to Eitri. One of them said that he/she had thought that the dragon of Nidavellir was gone, but had regained hope when it was discovered that the royal bloodline was still intact (so, I guess it must have been Eitri.) And we all know that royals in FEH (and Fates) have the blood of dragons in them. This also must mean that she needs Reginn (or, more specifically, her dragon blood) for something (probably a power source or something like that.) But yeah, turning Fafnir into a dragon happened because she thought she had to make one since the old one was gone (I believe the exact wordage was "had abandoned Nidavellir"), except it's not because Reginn exists.

On the topic of Otr going crazy, I've already explained why his story is filled with half-truths. At the time when he told everything his story, he was already mentally and emotionally compromised, so we have to take that into account when listening to it. Part of him wanted to get everything out into the open, but his tortured state caused him to warp the story a little as a way to lash out. He never truly hated Reginn. This is evidenced by a scene early on in the book, when Otr was just beginning to go crazy. He stopped himself with realization, and asked himself "What am I saying?" At this time, he was just beginning to succumb to the crown's mental-corrosion powers, from being so close to Fafnir all the time. This hasn't been explicitly stated in the story yet, but we have these points which have been explicitly stated to support it: 1. the crown of Nidavellir was designed to destroy the mentality of any non-legitimate ruler who wears it. Otr is not of Nidavellirian royalty since he couldn't get the tower doors to open, and they only open for legitimate Nidavellirian royalty. 2. We saw when Otr began to fall into madness. This was toward the beginning of the book, near to when Fafnir took power. 3. Otr was not only Fafnir's confidant (one someone confides in), but also one of his high-ranking military men. So, the two spent a lot of time together for both practical things (such as meetings) and leisure. 4. Reginn (again, toward the beginning of the book) stated that Fafnir suddenly changed when he took the throne. So, the crown's effects were instantaneous for him, but took longer to affect Otr. All of this points to the crown having a radiation sort of effect that would never affect Reginn because she's a legitimate princess of Nidavellir, but would directly affect Fafnir (the crown-wearer) and over time affect Otr just from proximity. So, even if the three of them were spending a lot of time together, things would turn out exactly as they did: Fafnir going crazy instantly, Otr going crazy over time, and Reginn wondering what the heck came over her brothers. Also note that while Otr was beginning to go crazy (but not fully mad yet), he gave Reginn chances to return to their side. If Otr truly hated Reginn and had wanted to kill her all this time, he would have done so at the first reasonable opportunity, but he didn't do that. He legitimately wanted her to return to them. Unfortunately, by the time he dies, Otr's true self has been almost completely obliterated. The last scrap of his sane self is probably what initially prompted him to explain everything to Reginn. It was the only thing he could do in order to help her at that point, and even that wound up being turned into an assault by his madness. But, if nothing else, Reginn gained confidence in her true identity from that, so Otr did manage manage to help her in the end.

(Breaking this into 2 paragraphs because it's long. It became 3.) The thing about madness is that it doesn't like itself. The mind is always trying to find a reason for this or that, and madness is thus always trying to find a reason for why it exists. It needs something to blame, even if it isn't true. So, did Otr look up to Fafnir and love him dearly? Yes. Did Reginn join the opposing side? Yes. Was Reginn legitimately the princess of Nidavellir? Yes. I have no doubt that the events that Otr described were true. However, I don't for a moment believe that when he was a frightened and confused child dealing with a coup that he hated the princess he rescued. Reginn was all he had left in the world, and he even sacrificed quite a bit to help her. Babies are not easy things to take care of. They require sacrifice, especially when you don't have many resources (and, obviously, Otr and Reginn did not have many resources.) Taking care of Reginn was an intentional act, and you don't sacrifice for someone or something without growing attached. What you invest in, you begin to care about. Not to mention Otr had no one but Reginn for a while. It's no wonder that when Fafnir came along, he (according to his last words) had no doubts that the two of them were siblings. It was only then that he stepped in and brought much-needed relief to the two of them. So, the jealousy and blame that Otr expressed toward Reginn when he was dying may have only been a sliver in actuality, and had been greatly exaggerated by his madness. Otr's trule feelings are obvious if one takes all of these details into consideration: he loved Reginn and Fafnir very dearly, as his siblings.

There's something else here, too: one other factor: Eitri. If she can turn Fafnir into a dragon, she can exaggerate and foster Otr's madness. So, limitation isn't an issue here. And motive? She has plenty. If she can get Otr to become emotionally dependent on Fafnir, she can tell him the truth about where Fafnir came from, and use that to get Otr to work with her. After all, the threat of losing Fafnir would be too much for him if that combination came into play. Eitri already knew about Fafnir's origins -- she was the one who'd summoned him, after all. Otr viewing Fafnir as his rescuer ever since he was a child all those years ago was only a beneficial coincidence toward this end. I don't doubt that she began messing with the crown to get it to radiate its power after Fafnir became king. News like that doesn't stay isolated, after all, and Eitri likely saw an opportunity there. The man she had summoned all those years ago had gone and taken over the country, filling the power void. She could use this. She discovered Otr, and found that she could use him. She may have been planning to use Reginn in a similar way, but Reginn, for whatever reason, wasn't being affected by the crown. How do I know they had contact before the events of book 5? Well, for one, Reginn knew Eitri by name, while also knowing where she lived. So, even if Reginn herself didn't meet Eitri before (I don't remember if she recognized her by appearance or not. I know Sharena was picturing an old man, and Reginn didn't correct her), she knew about her somehow. That "somehow" was probably from things her brothers had said about her. Otr always ranked higher in the military than Reginn did, after all, so it makes more sense that he'd be in contact with the magitech mechanic. Plus, Otr knew exactly where Eitri lived even before Reginn went there with the Askrans. I don't remember when Eitri and Otr began working together, but I think it was before Reginn even went to Eitri for help along with the Askrans. And we all know what happened after that: Otr got the jump on talking to the giants before Reginn and the Askrans could get there, but it was Eitri who set that in motion. She's been manipulating everyone since the beginning. She's the mastermind behind almost all events that have happened and have been described in book 5. It's actually easier to list what she hasn't had her hand in. I'm just waiting for the next chapter for her monologue so everything can be put onto the table.

Edit: As for your second post, basically, yeah. XD Although, for me, it's just how I think. It comes extremely naturally for me to think about this stuff. Like, I can't imagine not doing it. Urgh, I'm struggling with wording again, but basically, it's as natural as breathing for me to think deeply about characters. It doesn't take any extra time or energy for me, like you described it does for you. It's just how I do stuff. That's about the only difference I'd point out, though. It's less that I have to think about this stuff when I write (for example) and more that this is how I think anyway and so it makes the writing easy. And yep; you're right. I do a lot of writing. Again, it's just how my brain works. I'm designed to decode and simplify people down into something comprehensible, which is useful for writing fiction, and also for untangling problems for people when they seek advice. Some people are just made like that. Not many, but I can't really deny that I fit into this category. Believe me -- it comes with some heavy drawbacks (like, having a debilitating attack of some sort where your mind seizes up and you start hyperventilating from just vacuuming for 10 minutes...) so it's not like being of a rarer sort makes you superior, but it's not like it doesn't exist either. Few are in this category of brain hardwiring, and it's a good thing, too, because it makes everyday stuff MUCH harder, if not impossible. That would be terrible if no one could handle the practical work in society. XD

Edited by Mercakete

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I’m still legit mad at this chapters moment like omfg….this is 

Spoiler

Book 2 Gunnthrá tier levels of unnecessary terrible writing….plus Nótt is one of my favorite waifus -.- like I said she’ll get revive again in a future TT with an Ascended form with Dagr plus Jotunmom w/Dad has to appear one way to make money but doesn’t stop me from stating how terrible the FEH story writing is overall with a bad formula….at least other rpg Mobile stories I play haven’t disappointed me so far.

 

Edited by Mage Goddess Lysithea

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