Book V Speculation and Discussion Thread

[DefyingFates]

14 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Okay, played through the chapters and there are things to say.

First, that music is growing on me hard. At first, it was a bit odd and I wasn't sure how to feel about it, but that is a jam, man.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, time to launch theories and then give explanations. First... Okay, how to start this... Well, obviously, Fafnir and Otr were really nice guys before Fafnir took the throne. Looks like Otr is only just beginning to go a bit crazy (he even asks himself "What am I saying?!" at one point ... Or, "What am I thinking?!" I don't remember which, specifically.) My guess is that this is exactly because Fafnir took the throne, and Otr has been in close proximity to it.

At the beginning, we see a summoner in muted/yellowed colors talking to someone called "???." I'm thinking that person Yellow Kiran was talking to is Fafnir (after Fafnir took the throne.) At the beginning of the opening movie, we see Fafnir seeming to be just fine until the crown appears on his head, and then we see him look up into a mirror. That's when all the cogs appear. And, actually, the most important piece of evidence is in an unlikely place: the description for one of the new AR structures. It says it's a model of the mirror that hangs above the throne in...the new machine world (I can't be bothered to look at it right now; busy theorizing.) In the ancient world (our own), mirrors were considered highly magical items, and they appeared in all kinds of myths and folklore. Most famously, they were said to hold souls. SUSPICIOUS. I think that the crown Fafnir wears is directly tied to the mirror, the crown being a sort of control device connecting the wearer's mind to the soul trapped in the mirror above the throne. (Bands around the forehead being control devices is also a quintessential theme in scifi, of which steampunk is a subtype.) Now, Fafnir is a very strong and good-natured person (as is noted by Alfonse and Sharena in the story after they hear Rigenn's story of how her adoptive big bro took over the kingdom.) I looks like he's struggling to take control of himself, but is having a very hard time of it and is mostly just sort of flailing in his controller's grip. This is at the very least to the point where he's not fully under mirror spirit's control (having managed to "escape"), but still not in his right mind and ultimately still following mirror spirit's will (also, Fafnir might not actually be presently occupying his body right now if Yellow Kiran has possessed him, which would explain the "escape" shown in the opening scene. Yeah, this is making more sense to me. It also explains why Fafnir seems kind of absent-minded: he's not whole because he's missing his connection to the actual Kiran, which I'll expound on in a bit. Anyway, Fafnir may show up in mirrors if I'm right, since he's living in the reflection of the world, and it explains why he's appalled by all the destruction he sees everywhere. His spirit may be trying to get back to his body, too. Anyway, it also explains why his behavior is exactly the same as how the behavior of the previous king is described: their bodies were both inhabited/controlled by Yellow Kiran. Also why Yellow Kiran commented on Fafnir being "another failure.") It also seems like mirror spirit isn't whole. He's looking for Kiran: the one he's a reflection of. He seems like he knows he's a summoner, and is trying to "summon" by affecting the kings of this place. He also seems to have at least some instinctual knowledge that he needs to rejoin with Kiran. He also seems to lack emotions. After all, he's just what Kiran looks like, not what's within, and he probably longs to be reattached to Kiran again (as much as he can with no emotions.) That's why Fafnir is trying to expand his territory (like we expand our armies via summoning) and get the summoner: it is the will of Yellow Kiran: Mirror Spirit (I can't really take this title seriously, but it's the best I have.) Anyway, Yellow Kiran seems to be influencing the mind of Otr, too, since Otr spends some time near the mirror and is somewhat useful in securing Kiran. Also, the mirror is a circle. Could it also be the "ring" mentioned in the myth, alongside the circlet?

Anyway, onto another, smaller theory. So, some lady was mentioned in the story (can't recall the name.) She lives in the woods and Rigenn is taking us to her. My guess is that she's the witchy lady we see in the artwork. Eitri or something. We'll probably meet her in the next chapter.

One last thing: Otr's behavior and stuff is really reminding me of Leo from Fates. I kind of want to see them interact someday.

Oh, another theory I had: I have a feeling that we'll wind up freeing Fafnir, but Otr will wind up being possessed instead. I also have a feeling that Otr won't survive this book. Fafnir might. Rigenn is for sure safe.

Now that that's all been written, time to go back and look at what other people think!

As in-depth and enlightening as we've come to expect from you Mercakete, thank you! Fafnir's sanity/ true self being sealed inside a mirror is a neat theory, I'm curious if it'll bear fruit! The mirror in the trailer is also surrounded by gears though, so there's that. Fafnir convulsing makes me wonder if the real one is still inside for example: him being absent-minded could also be his two selves battling for control. I love the idea of the darker Kiran also being (or trying to become) a Summoner and the throne being what's making him insane, considering Otr's also got a few screws loose.

One thing about the Book IV ending movie: considering Fafnir clearly isn't the god he's working for now, maybe Lif's words ("On your guard, Alfonse...") were meant to be a genuine warning and not a taunt? Granted it's possible Lif will clash with him in the future, but still. I wonder if Team Lif will show up here too. I'm half convinced the Valkyries will play a minor role and are mostly here to set up Book VI which will be all about them, for example - so I'm thinking Team Lif will continue recruiting villains (maybe Otr, for example*) and will show up in Chapter VII (or whenever Alfador does).

* I like the theory of him being the final villain, but I can also see him being bitter after Fafnir is defeated due to Reginn's actions. A reformed Fafnir would probably try to set things in Nidavellir straight instead.

Edit: The witch is most likely the forest sage Reginn wants everyone to meet as you said. Her name is Eitri, another genderflipped dwarf from Norse myth (also called Sindri).

Edited December 9, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

18 hours ago, SuperNova125 said:

if we get the sword Valkyrie as a playable character before Seiros I will riot.

What do you mean it's Seiros and Byleth they're the Valkyries.

[Sentinel07]

7 hours ago, OutcastsofRelix said:

What do you mean it's Seiros and Byleth they're the Valkyries.

On a note, the Seiros look-a-like feels like a carbon copy.

I mean, long green hair, similar attire....hell even the sword is a similar style. 😄

[Mercakete]

12 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As in-depth and enlightening as we've come to expect from you Mercakete, thank you! Fafnir's sanity/ true self being sealed inside a mirror is a neat theory, I'm curious if it'll bear fruit! The mirror in the trailer is also surrounded by gears though, so there's that. Fafnir convulsing makes me wonder if the real one is still inside for example: him being absent-minded could also be his two selves battling for control. I love the idea of the darker Kiran also being (or trying to become) a Summoner and the throne being what's making him insane, considering Otr's also got a few screws loose.

One thing about the Book IV ending movie: considering Fafnir clearly isn't the god he's working for now, maybe Lif's words ("On your guard, Alfonse...") were meant to be a genuine warning and not a taunt? Granted it's possible Lif will clash with him in the future, but still. I wonder if Team Lif will show up here too. I'm half convinced the Valkyries will play a minor role and are mostly here to set up Book VI which will be all about them, for example - so I'm thinking Team Lif will continue recruiting villains (maybe Otr, for example*) and will show up in Chapter VII (or whenever Alfador does).

* I like the theory of him being the final villain, but I can also see him being bitter after Fafnir is defeated due to Reginn's actions. A reformed Fafnir would probably try to set things in Nidavellir straight instead.

Edit: The witch is most likely the forest sage Reginn wants everyone to meet as you said. Her name is Eitri, another genderflipped dwarf from Norse myth (also called Sindri).

Thank you. 🙂

Regarding Fafnir's spirit being trapped in the mirror, I didn't quite say that so much as he's maybe in a reflection world. It was Yellow Kiran who I thought was trapped in the mirror (at least, his main source, while controlling whoever sits on the throne/wears the crown. Kind of a "foot in both worlds" sort of deal.) Your theories about him battling for control within his body are also ones I posed; really, it's too early to say for sure which it is, but at least we can get a direction based on what we've been given. Also, I think the throne (because of Yellow Kiran) is what's driving Otr and Fafnir (literally) out of their minds. As for Yellow Kiran, I think that's just who he is: only "skin deep" since he's just a reflection.

As for your "the valkyries are setting up for the next book" I'm on board with you for that. We've had that sort of deal since book 2 with Loki. Also, I'd call them more "Team Thorr" than "Team Lif" since she's the initial recruiter.

As for Otr being recruited for Alfador's army at the end of the book, this is a possibility for sure. However, so far, recruits have been the lieutenants of the big bad, and have come in pairs. The valkyries themselves might sort of fill this role this time around, except that I suspect that they already work for Alfador.

[DefyingFates]

On 12/10/2020 at 3:47 AM, Mercakete said:

However, so far, recruits have been the lieutenants of the big bad, and have come in pairs.

That's true, but unless we get more OCs down the road as with Book 2 Otr is on his own.I guess it's possible he reforms along with his brother though: in that case, the final battle will give us Nifl, Muspell and Nidavellir as allies while Alfador as the Alfr, Lif and Thrasir.

Though this brings up an interesting question of what the Nine Realms in FEH are: the three left are Asgard, Vanaheim and Jotunheim but we've already had seven due to Alfheim being split into Ljosalfheimr and Dokkalfheimr. Considering Freyja and Freyr were demoted from Vanir to Alfr (though they don't have wings, so who knows if that's actually the case) I suspect Vanaheim's either getting cut or merged into Asgard (same for the concept of Vanir and Aesir). I think most everyone's already assumed Book 6 will feature Jotunns, so now I guess we get to theorize on which side they'll take in the clash with Asgard.

...also, I look forward to people being upset that the Jotunns aren't giants, though that's more pop culture's fault.

Edited December 12, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Sentinel07]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

That's true, but unless we get more OCs down the road as with Book 2 Otr is on his own.I guess it's possible he reforms along with his brother though: in that case, the final battle will give us Nifl, Muspell and Nidavellir as allies while Alfador as the Alfr, Lif and Thrasir.

Though this brings up an interesting question of what the Nine Realms in FEH are: the three left are Asgard, Vanaheim and Jotunheim but we've already had seven due to Alfheim being split into Ljosalfheimr and Dokkalfheimr. Considering Freyja and Freyr were demoted from Vanir to Alfr (though they don't have wings, so who knows if that's actually the case) I suspect Vanaheim's either getting cut or merged into Asgard (same for the concept of Vanir and Aesir). I think most everyone's already assumed Book 6 will feature Jotunns, so now I guess we get to theorize on which side they'll take in the clash with Asgard.

...also, I look forward to people being upset that the Jotunns aren't giants, though that's more pop culture's fault.

I feel it's likely we'll get at least 1 new character that we don't already know about. It'll be a little odd if Otr is the only lieutenant under Fafnir, given all other Book villains have at least two. I doubt the Valkyries are directly under him, so I would expect at least one more, like how aside from Loki, we only had Laevatein under Surtr, and then got Laegjarn and Helbindi later.

As for Freyr and Freyja, I've wondered myself. They never call themselves alfr, rather it's always used to describe the others. Freyja simply calls herself a god.

[DefyingFates]

42 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

They never call themselves alfr, rather it's always used to describe the others. Freyja simply calls herself a god.

That's...actually a good point. I could totally see them as a pair of gods that chose to leave Asgard for whatever reason and rule over the dream worlds. In that case, maybe the Aesir/ Vanir split will just be between gods who chose to leave Asgard and the (presumably stronger) gods who stayed?

[Acacia Sgt]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Though this brings up an interesting question of what the Nine Realms in FEH are: the three left are Asgard, Vanaheim and Jotunheim but we've already had seven due to Alfheim being split into Ljosalfheimr and Dokkalfheimr. Considering Freyja and Freyr were demoted from Vanir to Alfr (though they don't have wings, so who knows if that's actually the case) I suspect Vanaheim's either getting cut or merged into Asgard (same for the concept of Vanir and Aesir). I think most everyone's already assumed Book 6 will feature Jotunns, so now I guess we get to theorize on which side they'll take in the clash with Asgard.

Alfheim wasn't split. They used Svartalheim, the realm of the Dark Elves, the Dokkalf. The Eddas have never agreed which are the nine realms. Svartalheim is sometimes merged with Nidavellir. Same for Nifleheim and Helheim, which Heroes had as two separate places as well.

I agree the most likely outcome is merging Vanaheim and Asgard to keep it as nine.

[DefyingFates]

31 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Alfheim wasn't split. They used Svartalheim, the realm of the Dark Elves, the Dokkalf. The Eddas have never agreed which are the nine realms. Svartalheim is sometimes merged with Nidavellir. Same for Nifleheim and Helheim, which Heroes had as two separate places as well.

Fair point about Alfheim. The weird thing is that there are three races of elf in Norse myth: Light, Dark and Black. It's the Black Elves (Svartalfr) that are conflated with Dwarves and live in Svartalfheim/ Nidavellir. The Dark Elves are said to live on the earth, so if anything FEH created a brand new realm for them in Dokkalfheimr (Ljosalfheimr is an alternate name for Alfheim), though for the purposes of counting the number of realms used I suppose it's the same as splitting Nidavellir instead.

As for Niflheim and Helheim, I think the connection was suggested by a scholar but refuted by later findings? I do remember reading something that suggested they were the same place, but there are also texts describing the four parts of the Norse afterlife: Valhalla and Folkvangr for the warriors, Hel for average folk and Nastrodr for sinners, suggesting Hel was part of its own "ecosystem" compared to Niflheim which cameos in the Norse creation myth.

40 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I agree the most likely outcome is merging Vanaheim and Asgard to keep it as nine.

I'm glad you think the same way! There's apparently a throwaway line from Odin to Hel (where he tells her to "watch over nine of the realms") which implies that there are more than nine, but I suppose we'll have to see if that bears fruit. FEH already invented a Realm, I wouldn't put it past them to make Svartalfheim its own thing too.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Fair point about Alfheim. The weird thing is that there are three races of elf in Norse myth: Light, Dark and Black. It's the Black Elves (Svartalfr) that are conflated with Dwarves and live in Svartalfheim/ Nidavellir. The Dark Elves are said to live on the earth, so if anything FEH created a brand new realm for them in Dokkalfheimr (Ljosalfheimr is an alternate name for Alfheim), though for the purposes of counting the number of realms used I suppose it's the same as splitting Nidavellir instead.

As for Niflheim and Helheim, I think the connection was suggested by a scholar but refuted by later findings? I do remember reading something that suggested they were the same place, but there are also texts describing the four parts of the Norse afterlife: Valhalla and Folkvangr for the warriors, Hel for average folk and Nastrodr for sinners, suggesting Hel was part of its own "ecosystem" compared to Niflheim which cameos in the Norse creation myth.

I'm glad you think the same way! There's apparently a throwaway line from Odin to Hel (where he tells her to "watch over nine of the realms") which implies that there are more than nine, but I suppose we'll have to see if that bears fruit. FEH already invented a Realm, I wouldn't put it past them to make Svartalfheim its own thing too.

For it's worth, Japan named the two realms as just Alfheim and Svartalfheim.

True about the Svartalf and Dwarves being considered one and the same, but I think the same Edda mentions the Dokkalf living with them or just closely associated. Hence why Svartalfheim and Nidavellir are the exclusive-to-each-other realms. Since that Edda is the one that doesn't mention Nidavellir.

I've seen the distinction of two different realms, and that instead Hel was sent to Niflheim where she stablished her domain within the realm. Again, it all depends on the Edda.

Wait, invented a realm? Which one?

[Mercakete]

22 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

That's true, but unless we get more OCs down the road as with Book 2 Otr is on his own. I guess it's possible he reforms along with his brother though: in that case, the final battle will give us Nifl, Muspell and Nidavellir as allies while Alfador as the Alfr, Lif and Thrasir.

See, this assumes that Fafnir is actually the big bad (a la Surtr, Hel, and Freyja), and I don't think he is. I think the two valkyries are either joint big bads, or serve the actual big bad (maybe Yellow Kiran? Or maybe some as-of-yet undisclosed actual big bad is just using Yellow Kiran.)

As for the giants, as I said before, I think those will be the dragons (Askr, Nifl, Muspell, and Embla) + maybe others.

And as for Freyr and Freyja, I thought it was obvious that they're supposed to be gods. They're like Hel (FEH ver) in that way, having their own realm(s) to rule over, and being something entirely different from mortals.

Edit: OH RIGHT the other very important thing I picked up from the book 5 trailer: Alfonse has a shield and I keep forgetting that.

Edit again: Oh, also, when Reginn looks at the moon (or clouded sun?) and it splits into 3 because her eyes are unfocussing, who else caught that it represented her and her two brothers? Their symbol is rather simple (compared to the other countries') and looks rather circular. Also, her color is red, Otr's is is green (matching their weapon types) and Fafnir's is yellow. Perhaps this means that Fafnir will be colorless?

Oh, also, Reginn's belt has a tassel in the back that makes her look like she has a horse tail.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Mercakete

[DefyingFates]

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

For it's worth, Japan named the two realms as just Alfheim and Svartalfheim.

Ah, that clears things up then. Actually now that I think about it I vaguely remember the Dark Elves being named Svartalfr as well, is that correct? If so that explains this situation quite nicely. Dokkalfheimr's the Realm I suggested IS invented by the way, but as you say this fixes the situation nicely and I guess they did in fact split Nidavellir instead.

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, it all depends on the Edda.

Agreed on both the Alfheim and Nifl/ Hel situations. It's a shame we don't have any sources that weren't censored by Christian conversion efforts.

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

See, this assumes that Fafnir is actually the big bad (a la Surtr, Hel, and Freyja), and I don't think he is.

Ah, I should have been clearer: when I said Fafnir reforms I meant it in the "he loses his insanity" sense, my bad! I don't think the Valkyries are evil though. At worst they're probably like Thorr who opposes the Heroes as a way to test them, since they give Reginn that sword in the movie and the poster has one of them looking concerned.

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

As for the giants, as I said before, I think those will be the dragons (Askr, Nifl, Muspell, and Embla) + maybe others.

I didn't think about that! I just figured they'd be gods, but considering the Jotunn are shape shifters it'd be interesting if the dragon "gods" are actually a step below the actual deities in play here.

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

And as for Freyr and Freyja, I thought it was obvious that they're supposed to be gods. They're like Hel (FEH ver) in that way, having their own realm(s) to rule over, and being something entirely different from mortals.

Fair. Considering Hel looks just like Lif and Thrasir I guess I never picked up on the idea that she settled there from another realm in the FEH-verse. Thanks!

3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Alfonse has a shield and I keep forgetting that.

FINALLY someone else notices! He's actually had it since Book 2 despite it being Sharena's shield in FEH proper. I feel so bad for her...

3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Edit again: Oh, also, when Reginn looks at the moon (or clouded sun?) and it splits into 3 because her eyes are unfocussing, who else caught that it represented her and her two brothers? Their symbol is rather simple (compared to the other countries') and looks rather circular. Also, her color is red, Otr's is is green (matching their weapon types) and Fafnir's is yellow. Perhaps this means that Fafnir will be colorless?

Ooh, I didn't notice that! It's so cool! It's possible the red/ green/ yellow coloring is just for aesthetics and Fafnir will be a lancer to match the others with the weapon triangle, but I still look forward to seeing if your theory holds, thanks again!

3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Oh, also, Reginn's belt has a tassel in the back that makes her look like she has a horse tail.

Yeah, that's a neat detail I noticed too. I know the armor makes her look like a centaur but it's funny because their armor is actually named after a boar 😛

[Mercakete]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Ah, I should have been clearer: when I said Fafnir reforms I meant it in the "he loses his insanity" sense, my bad!

I was more talking about Otr being a lieutenant. If Fafnir's not the big bad, then Otr doesn't count as the lieutenant of the big bad (unless he converts mid-book or something, but that would probably mean turning against his brother. I guess they could both wind up becoming lieutenants of the secret big bad, though. That'd be interesting, especially since it would mean that, for the first time, we don't actually achieve helping the freebie with her book-long, driving goal.)

Quote

I didn't think about that! I just figured they'd be gods, but considering the Jotunn are shape shifters it'd be interesting if the dragon "gods" are actually a step below the actual deities in play here.

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking, pretty much. For the full version, check out what I've said in the past about it. 🙂

Quote

FINALLY someone else notices! He's actually had it since Book 2 despite it being Sharena's shield in FEH proper. I feel so bad for her...

Huh. Maybe she gave it to him because he needed it more than she did or something? It'd be nice if this got addressed. Could also be that we just don't see it clearly in his official art and they both have one, but I'm also talking about this without going back to check the artwork myself.

Quote

Ooh, I didn't notice that! It's so cool! It's possible the red/ green/ yellow coloring is just for aesthetics and Fafnir will be a lancer to match the others with the weapon triangle, but I still look forward to seeing if your theory holds, thanks again!

Oh, my theory extends beyond that. As I mentioned before, I wonder if Fafnir will have a dragon mech he pilots (which could be a colorless weapon type.) After all, in the myth, he turns into a dragon which can breathe poison, and the air around here seems rather...polluted. The whole :losing his mind" thing is true to the myth, too, but I like this spin IS may be putting on that. Poor Fafnir. The more I think about him, the more interested I am in his arc. I'm really curious to see how this develops.

Edit: Also, it's fun to theorize, especially with a fellow enthusiast. ^_^ So, thanks for the chatter on this, too!

Edited December 13, 2020 by Mercakete

[Othin]

29 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

I was more talking about Otr being a lieutenant. If Fafnir's not the big bad, then Otr doesn't count as the lieutenant of the big bad (unless he converts mid-book or something, but that would probably mean turning against his brother. I guess they could both wind up becoming lieutenants of the secret big bad, though. That'd be interesting, especially since it would mean that, for the first time, we don't actually achieve helping the freebie with her book-long, driving goal.)

Does it mean that? Could be that the two of them function as their lieutenants throughout the book, but we rescue one or both at the end. Although I'm not sure how that would relate to the big team-up.

Looking at how OC enemies show up in the initial chapters of the previous books:

• Book 2:
  • 2-1-5: Loki
  • 2-2-1: Veronica
  • 2-2-5: Surtr, Laevatein, Loki
  • 2-3-5: Laevatein
  • 2-4-5: Surtr, Laevatein, Loki
  • 2-5-1: Laevatein
  • 2-5-5: Laegjarn
• Book 3:
  • 3-1-3: Lif
  • 3-1-4: Thrasir
  • 3-1-5: Eir
  • 3-2-5: Thrasir
  • 3-3-5: Hel
  • 3-4-5: Lif
  • 3-5-5: Gustav
• Book 4:
  • 4-1-1: Loki
  • 4-1-5: Veronica, Bruno
  • 4-2-5: Triandra
  • 4-3-5: Plumeria
  • 4-4-5: Triandra
  • 4-5-1: Surtr
  • 4-5-5: Helbindi
• Book 5:
  • 5-1-1: Reginn
  • 5-1-5: Reginn
  • 5-2-5: Otr

Otr seems to be functioning in the "first lieutenant" category with Laevatein, Thrasir, and Triandra, they all show up as bosses in their respective X-2-5 maps. The other one can vary, with Laegjarn in particular taking a while to show up. It'll be interesting to see if Fafnir shows up as a boss soon, but it won't necessarily clarify. Freyja took a long time to take the field, but Surtr and Hel both appeared in their first three chapters, and while Surtr was invincible at the time, Hel got a proper fight.

[DefyingFates]

55 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

That'd be interesting, especially since it would mean that, for the first time, we don't actually achieve helping the freebie with her book-long, driving goal.)

It would, huh!

55 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Huh. Maybe she gave it to him because he needed it more than she did or something? It'd be nice if this got addressed. Could also be that we just don't see it clearly in his official art and they both have one

I just had another look and they both have shields in their attacking arts, it's just that Alfonse's sword covers his.

55 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

As I mentioned before, I wonder if Fafnir will have a dragon mech he pilots (which could be a colorless weapon type.) After all, in the myth, he turns into a dragon which can breathe poison,

Oh, when you put it that way, yeah: I can totally see him having a dragon mech! He'd be our first cavalry dragon too!

55 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

The more I think about him, the more interested I am in his arc. I'm really curious to see how this develops.

Same here. I wonder if they'll save him or if he'll die (either while possessed or not)? His dialogue on the FEH site suggests his playable version will be the brainwashed version.

55 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Also, it's fun to theorize, especially with a fellow enthusiast. ^_^ So, thanks for the chatter on this, too!

Thanks! Yay for nerding out over Norse mythology!!

11 minutes ago, Othin said:

but Surtr and Hel both appeared in their first three chapters, and while Surtr was invincible at the time, Hel got a proper fight.

Interesting! Fafnir also has the added wrinkle of maybe not even being the final boss of the Book, so in his case him showing up early may hint towards that too.

Edited December 13, 2020 by DefyingFates

[kradeelav]

jumping off of y'all's theorizing (this is so much fun to read) I wonder if yellow Kiran will be a recruitable/playable minion?  it'd be kind of funny if the summoner was one of the hot units on the next "fallen" banner....

[Mercakete]

10 hours ago, Othin said:

Does it mean that? Could be that the two of them function as their lieutenants throughout the book, but we rescue one or both at the end. Although I'm not sure how that would relate to the big team-up.

That's not what I meant. I'm speaking purely in story role. How to explain it...

The big bad of book 2 was Surtr, and Laegjarn and Leavateinn were his lieutenants (though neither were recruited by Thorr since she wasn't in the story yet. Instead, one died (Laegjarn) and the other was left to repair Muspell (Leavateinn.))

The big bad of book 3 was Hel, and Lif and Thrasir were her lieutenants. Lif and Thrasir were recruited at the end of the book by Thorr. (This is where the pattern begins.)

The big bad of book 4 was Freyja (though she wasn't properly introduced until some time into the book.) Her lieutenants were, in fact, introduced before she was, and they were Triandra and Plumeria. They were recruited by Lif and Thrasir in the same way that Lif and Thrasir were recruited by Thorr (and so, they were recruiting on Thorr's behalf.)

The big bad of book 5 has not necessarily been revealed yet. We are being led to believe that the big bad is Fafnir (a la book art) but it could very well be that he doesn't wind up being the driving force behind the book/main obstacle. In fact, unlike in previous books, the freebie (Reginn)'s main goal isn't to overthrow him (Fjorm wanted to overcome Surtr, Eir wanted to overcome Hel (in her own way; she wanted all the death to stop and was conflicted with that and wanting to please her mom throughout the book), and Peony wanted to overcome Freyja (by stopping all the nightmare stuff.)) She wants to discover what's come over him (and Otr) and rescue them from it. The thing causing the madness, therefore, is probably the actual big bad of the book (because the freebie will not be denied.)

Now, there are a few ways this could go. First, the madness could be stopped and Fafnir and Otr switch sides. In this case, I expect the valkyries to be the actual lieutenants, making people think they can trust them, but actually being on the big bad's side, or being joint big-bads themselves (fulfilling both the role of the big bad and the lieutenants, and already serving Alfador, hence not needing to be recruited.) Second, Fafnir could be rescued from his madness, but madness overcomes Otr. In this scenario, it could also be that both of the valkyries serve Alfador, but one has a change of heart and joins us alongside Fafnir, while the other "becomes" one of the lieutenants alongside Otr. Third, the madness could take over both brothers entirely and they become the lieutenants to whatever is causing the madness (which I am certain is the true big bad.)

Basically, I'm calling IS' bluff. They're trying to make Fafnir look like the actual big bad, but I really don't think that's the case. There's something much more sinister causing this, and I believe that, at the end of the book, whatever it is will be the final boss of the book. (Also, for now, I'm thinking this madness-inducing big bad is Yellow Kiran.)

@kradeelav

I am extremely tickled that the name "Yellow Kiran" is catching on. XD

Anyway, I think that Yellow Kiran might get a different "true form" later down the line. That's probably the one we'll get to recruit. However, if we can summon any Kiran, I want it to be Kiranfonse. The guy already has art for his attacks, and a sprite, so come on; it's not that hard. Yellow Kiran is seriously just a recolor; he'd need exceptional story drive to get me to want to summon him without a "true form." What would be neat, though, is if the true form (particularly the damaged art) shows bits of his Yellow Kiran form.

[Sentinel07]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:46 AM, DefyingFates said:

FINALLY someone else notices! He's actually had it since Book 2 despite it being Sharena's shield in FEH proper. I feel so bad for her...😛

Alfonse has had a shield since the beginning. It's been in all of his attack art work.

Edit: Never mind, it already got addressed. This conversation is already getting too long that I'm missing stuff. 😄

Edited December 15, 2020 by Sentinel07

[Mercakete]

You know, I'm a bit frustrated with Reginn's situation. She's YET ANOTHER female freebie, which sucks because that's salt-inducing and she's actually very well-written so far. I like her a lot; it's just her situation makes it more likely for people to just chuck her on the pile and dismiss her as filling the role instead of letting her shine for who she is. This is especially since I was expecting a male freebie this time, and that it was Reginn instead was just plain disappointing. I still can't quite get that bitter taste out of my metaphorical mouth, but I really, really wish I could just enjoy Reginn being realistic.

[Sentinel07]

Perhaps this is just me, but I feel like people put way too much emphasis on the gender of a character rather than just judging that character on its own merits.

If a cast had almost all males and they're good characters? Fine by me. Cast mostly female but still good characters? Also fine by me.

In a sense, I almost find the anger at FEH Book OC's being largely female to be ironic, especially when you look at the main lords of the mainline FE games and see that they are EXTREMELY male dominated, with very few females rising up to that same level. Heck, even in games like Radiant Dawn and Echoes who have female lords in Micaiah and Celica, they are very much second fiddle to Ike and Alm respectively. One can argue Ephraim is favored over Eirika too.

[Medeus]

46 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Perhaps this is just me, but I feel like people put way too much emphasis on the gender of a character rather than just judging that character on its own merits.

If a cast had almost all males and they're good characters? Fine by me. Cast mostly female but still good characters? Also fine by me.

In a sense, I almost find the anger at FEH Book OC's being largely female to be ironic, especially when you look at the main lords of the mainline FE games and see that they are EXTREMELY male dominated, with very few females rising up to that same level. Heck, even in games like Radiant Dawn and Echoes who have female lords in Micaiah and Celica, they are very much second fiddle to Ike and Alm respectively. One can argue Ephraim is favored over Eirika too.

And fans complain about the male bias in the main series as well, especially in terms of how the female lords are treated. It's not really ironic if fans acknowledge that gender balance is an issue with both, and if anything it highlights a recurring problem with IS' stories.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Medeus

[Mercakete]

1 hour ago, Sentinel07 said:

Perhaps this is just me, but I feel like people put way too much emphasis on the gender of a character rather than just judging that character on its own merits.

If a cast had almost all males and they're good characters? Fine by me. Cast mostly female but still good characters? Also fine by me.

In a sense, I almost find the anger at FEH Book OC's being largely female to be ironic, especially when you look at the main lords of the mainline FE games and see that they are EXTREMELY male dominated, with very few females rising up to that same level. Heck, even in games like Radiant Dawn and Echoes who have female lords in Micaiah and Celica, they are very much second fiddle to Ike and Alm respectively. One can argue Ephraim is favored over Eirika too.

For me, I see each game as its own, self-contained story, including FEH, so I don't really see most lords being male as a problem (objectively speaking.) Comparing FE8 to FE1 as about the same as comparing LotR to Harry Potter -- they're their own stories and so they don't really have any bearing on one another. In FE8, there are 2 lords: one male and one female. In FE1, there is one lord, who happens to be male, and has a strong female support in Caeda. Generally speaking, male or female, all characters are treated equally with respect. It doesn't matter who's "main" -- that's nothing but vainglory. What matters is how the characters are treated (though, admittedly, females seem to not be as well-written as males across the board, even in FEH. They're not bad, but they still have some odd..."fluffy" factor to them that make them not quite as relatable, on the whole.)

However, FEH has a continuous plot in each of the books. Within this story, there is heavy, heavy female bias -- not equal treatment like males and females get in most other FE titles. The only male character who gets treated as more than just filling a role is Alfonse (not counting book 5 yet. IS seems to be at least somewhat addressing this in this book.) Helbindi got development, but then was killed off and mostly forgotten (though he did at least get a summer alt.) Plus, the last time I counted, there were actually twice as many female FEH characters as male ones. Not only that, but every single freebie has been female. It also seems to me that IS expects players to feel sympathy toward female characters just because they're female (i.e., Freyja) and not care at all about the males (i.e., Freyr.) Either gender being used as nothing but a plot tool is bad.

I'm not mad at IS, by the way. Maybe other people are, but I'm not. What I am is annoyed, and this time, it's because I thought we were getting a male freebie, but then we didn't get one. The trailer tripped me up and set my expectations to something I'd been hoping for, and then it didn't happen. This is not an objective critique I'm expressing: this is personal disappointment with a specific situation which happened specifically to me, dealing with my own expectations and circumstance. Also speaking specifically and subjectively of my own preferences rather than saying that IS is objectively wrong or whatever, is that I find myself nervous and uncomfortable if I'm around too many females, and find male presences to be neutral, relatable, and soothing. So, personally, I want more guys. That said, as I always say, IS can do whatever they want with the content they create.

Going big picture here again, though, honestly, I just want IS to give their dudes (besides Alfonse) some love and let us love them too. A character doesn't have to be female to be sympathetic, and I wonder if IS is under that impression. Worse, it's very obvious that IS is putting out so many female characters because they sell better than males (on the whole.) Objectification being the reason for populous representation is hardly flattering.

 

Hmm that was all phrased in a kind of dizzying way, but I guess the simple version of it is that I wasn't critiquing IS when I said I was disappointed. I was reporting how I felt based on thinking that Fafnir's voice (I think it was his, anyway) would be the voice of the next freebie, and I was really hoping for a male freebie since that's my preference, but that's not what happened. Not blaming anyone, just saying it as it is. (Then, knowing that I wasn't the only one who was hoping for a bit more gender balance within FEH, commented on how it's too bad that Reginn may be dismissed just because she's yet another female freebie since she's actually pretty nice in isolation.)

[Sentinel07]

13 hours ago, Mercakete said:

For me, I see each game as its own, self-contained story, including FEH, so I don't really see most lords being male as a problem (objectively speaking.) Comparing FE8 to FE1 as about the same as comparing LotR to Harry Potter -- they're their own stories and so they don't really have any bearing on one another. In FE8, there are 2 lords: one male and one female. In FE1, there is one lord, who happens to be male, and has a strong female support in Caeda. Generally speaking, male or female, all characters are treated equally with respect. It doesn't matter who's "main" -- that's nothing but vainglory. What matters is how the characters are treated (though, admittedly, females seem to not be as well-written as males across the board, even in FEH. They're not bad, but they still have some odd..."fluffy" factor to them that make them not quite as relatable, on the whole.)

However, FEH has a continuous plot in each of the books. Within this story, there is heavy, heavy female bias -- not equal treatment like males and females get in most other FE titles. The only male character who gets treated as more than just filling a role is Alfonse (not counting book 5 yet. IS seems to be at least somewhat addressing this in this book.) Helbindi got development, but then was killed off and mostly forgotten (though he did at least get a summer alt.) Plus, the last time I counted, there were actually twice as many female FEH characters as male ones. Not only that, but every single freebie has been female. It also seems to me that IS expects players to feel sympathy toward female characters just because they're female (i.e., Freyja) and not care at all about the males (i.e., Freyr.) Either gender being used as nothing but a plot tool is bad.

I'm not mad at IS, by the way. Maybe other people are, but I'm not. What I am is annoyed, and this time, it's because I thought we were getting a male freebie, but then we didn't get one. The trailer tripped me up and set my expectations to something I'd been hoping for, and then it didn't happen. This is not an objective critique I'm expressing: this is personal disappointment with a specific situation which happened specifically to me, dealing with my own expectations and circumstance. Also speaking specifically and subjectively of my own preferences rather than saying that IS is objectively wrong or whatever, is that I find myself nervous and uncomfortable if I'm around too many females, and find male presences to be neutral, relatable, and soothing. So, personally, I want more guys. That said, as I always say, IS can do whatever they want with the content they create.

Going big picture here again, though, honestly, I just want IS to give their dudes (besides Alfonse) some love and let us love them too. A character doesn't have to be female to be sympathetic, and I wonder if IS is under that impression. Worse, it's very obvious that IS is putting out so many female characters because they sell better than males (on the whole.) Objectification being the reason for populous representation is hardly flattering.

 

Hmm that was all phrased in a kind of dizzying way, but I guess the simple version of it is that I wasn't critiquing IS when I said I was disappointed. I was reporting how I felt based on thinking that Fafnir's voice (I think it was his, anyway) would be the voice of the next freebie, and I was really hoping for a male freebie since that's my preference, but that's not what happened. Not blaming anyone, just saying it as it is. (Then, knowing that I wasn't the only one who was hoping for a bit more gender balance within FEH, commented on how it's too bad that Reginn may be dismissed just because she's yet another female freebie since she's actually pretty nice in isolation.)

I would say that the fact that they continue to focus on Alfonse as the main guy likely plays a role in it.

Plus, let's be honest here. They pretty much view the Summoner as male too, despite the thin attempts to say that Kiran could be either gender. I would say all of this likely ties into the Book Mascot of the hour being female.

Also, I wasn't trying to call anyone out so I apologise if it came off that way.

[Mercakete]

12 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

I would say that the fact that they continue to focus on Alfonse as the main guy likely plays a role in it.

Plus, let's be honest here. They pretty much view the Summoner as male too, despite the thin attempts to say that Kiran could be either gender. I would say all of this likely ties into the Book Mascot of the hour being female.

Also, I wasn't trying to call anyone out so I apologise if it came off that way.

It's cool. I think it was mostly just that the timing made it look like a reply, even though there was nothing wrong with what you said. You were just taking a thought as a prompt and giving your perspective on it, and there's nothing wrong with that. 🙂 Mind elaborating on what you mean by "I would say all of this likely ties into the Book Mascot of the hour being female." and "I would say that the fact that they continue to focus on Alfonse as the main guy likely plays a role in it."?

[Sentinel07]

17 hours ago, Mercakete said:

It's cool. I think it was mostly just that the timing made it look like a reply, even though there was nothing wrong with what you said. You were just taking a thought as a prompt and giving your perspective on it, and there's nothing wrong with that. 🙂 Mind elaborating on what you mean by "I would say all of this likely ties into the Book Mascot of the hour being female." and "I would say that the fact that they continue to focus on Alfonse as the main guy likely plays a role in it."?

I mean, I won't claim to know their mentality, so I really only have my best guess.

In essense of what I was trying to say, Alfonse basically performs the role of "male lead" in every nook, even in stuff like Book 4 where it was just Kiran as Alfonse. So basically they perhaps view the new Book freebie as the "female lead" opposite of him (since they definitely not view Sharena as a female lead with how they've written her).

I don't know. I'm kind of just making up whatever comes out of my head. For all I know, it could just very well just be "waifu sells".