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Book V Speculation and Discussion Thread

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5 hours ago, Medeus said:

Huh, so it looks like Jotunheimr is being taken care of this Book. I'm guessing they're pulling another Freyr/Freyja situation by giving Dagr/Nott an association, but I'm surprised that they're using the realm here when there's so many characters they could pull out for future stories.

Edit: Also, the sword Gramr is a callback to the exact same sword used to kill Fafnir in Norse Mythology.

Not quite. Nótt at least is the daughter of a Jotunn, and with Dagr being Nótt's son, it's not surprising we'd have the giants involved upon learning who they're based from.

Not to mention, after Book II giving us Fire/Ice, IV with Light/Dark Elves, of course we'd have a Dwarves/Giants here, heh...

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Who wants to bet that Reginn and Otr (or at least Reginn) are actually blood related to the previous royal line?

I think it's just Reginn. I could be wrong but I vaguely remember it being said that Otr found her before Fafnir found the two of them. I had the same theory aboutt Eitri seeing her as a child though: either while she was working with the previous king or during the mess that wiped out the rest of her bloodline.

3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Edit: Also, indeed, when in the right hands Grammar is a potent weapon.

Well said 😛

Going from the top, this was a really strong chapter! I like how quickly Eitri was established: we know where she's strongest (on the backlines, in her lab) and that she won't be a liability down the line. I suspect she's aware that Reginn is of royal blood too, but this part could go either way.

And Jotunheimr already? Now that was a surprise! I feel this swerve justifies how early we've met our giants, but it also means all nine realms are accounted for now (unless Asgard is split into Asgard and Vanaheim later):

  1. Midgard (Askr, Embla)
  2. Nifl
  3. Muspell
  4. Hel
  5. Ljosalfheimr
  6. Dokkalfheimr
  7. Nidavellir
  8. Jotunheimr
  9. Asgard

I really was expecting Jotunheimr to have its own book and Book 7 to be Ragnarok, but maybe that'll be Book 6 and Book 7 will be the conclusion of the Embla Curse storyline? Regardless, the parallels between the Jotuns and Dvergar were nice and...yeah, even after the preview I really wasn't expecting Dagr to be quite so...loud. @Othin, right now she's just inside the line of being annoying for me (though part of that is because I look forward to seeing how much grumpier Alfonse can get) and I'm interested to see more of her and Nott. @Mercakete, I suspect Nott is probably going to be who we expect considering this ambush seems to have been a spontaneous bid for power by Dagr. I mean, I can see Nott demanding a fight to see if we're worthy of Gramr just so we can see how she fights, but no more than that. Still, I'm open to the possibility of being completely wrong.

As for the MacGuffin hunt, I expected it as soon as Reginn said they had to meet Eitri so it didn't surprise me that much. I was surprised by it being a sword this time though, with the implication that Reginn will be wielding it instead of Kiran per the reveal trailer. The Crown of the Dvergar could be a nice spin on things, though I suspect the two will just cancel each other out and we'll have to defeat him in a proper fight as with the other antagonists.

Finally, while "5 story beats per chapter" is still the ideal one, the current set-up worked quite well: four cutscenes with the only filler part being the one where the group was trekking to another country is fair. I just hope future chapters maintain that pace.

So...yeah, a good chapter! I was so convinced Dagr was a flier it took until I noticed she had Close Call to realize she was infantry and that's why she didn't have Canto 2. Pathfinder as the Infantry equivalent could be fun. It's obviously not as busted as Canto, but based on positioning you're effectively giving everyone else on your team +1 movement which could lead tto some interesting dynamics. She can't bridge non-fliers over rivers or mountains per the description, but she may be able to get cavaliers over trenches (and infantry over forests), so that's something to look out for.

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1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

I think it's just Reginn. I could be wrong but I vaguely remember it being said that Otr found her before Fafnir found the two of them. I had the same theory aboutt Eitri seeing her as a child though: either while she was working with the previous king or during the mess that wiped out the rest of her bloodline.

I thought it was that Otr was Reginn's only blood relative, and that Fafnir took both of them in.

Edit: Also, Reginn getting the sword was shown in the trailer, so...

Edited by Mercakete

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I wasn't expecting that kind of personality for Dagr, but I like her.

I guess we can expect at least one more OC other than the ones we have already seen with the mother of the two giants.

That brings the grand total to 2 males, 5 females and 1 yellow Kiran. It could be better. It could be worse also. I really hope when we arrive in Asgard the Allfather has at least one male servant.

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25 minutes ago, Hilda said:

If this chapter would have come 2-3 months earlier, Dagr would have jumped to the top 2 of CYL prolly. She is fun!

Thank goodness it didn't!

8 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Edit: Also, Reginn getting the sword was shown in the trailer, so...

Yeah...that's pretty on the nose foreshadowing, huh? She even gets it from Nott, unless I'm mistaken.

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6 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Alfonse in the next chapter:

I don't know that Nott is going to be like her sister in that regard. It seems/sounds like she's the calm and reflective sort. We'll see, though.

 

On the topic of poor Alfonse, my opinion is split. I do feel bad for him, and agree that Dagr's not really taking this as seriously as she should be. That said, her behavior fits my humor style. Alfonse getting frustrated doesn't, so my pity for him is sincere. That said, in some ways, how Dagr treats him (the flirting, anyway) is kind of like how several male characters boldly flirt with female ones throughout the series, and the gender role reversal is refreshing, and Alfonse's response is even like that of the multitude of women who respond to the likes of Sain, Laslow, and Gatrie (not that I don't feel for Alfonse.) ...Actually, thinking about it, Dagr reminds me quite a bit of Gatrie. Also, I want to see an arm-wrestling match between Dagr and Effie. And maybe Echidna. And Nailah. And so on. If Bastian and Makalov were around, you know that they and Joshua would be totally taking bets (and Anna would be using it to try to get more money, but it'd probably backfire horribly.)

Ladies' Muscle Beach banner this summer please, IS. If you must do a beach theme with a feminine majority, give us those muscle-bound could-rip-you-head-off gals showing off those guns.

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5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

That said, in some ways, how Dagr treats him (the flirting, anyway) is kind of like how several male characters boldly flirt with female ones throughout the series, and the gender role reversal is refreshing

You know, I never thought of it like that! And you're right, the role reversal is super refreshing. It's nice to see some reimagined archetypes show up!

5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Dagr reminds me quite a bit of Gatrie. Also, I want to see an arm-wrestling match between Dagr and Effie. And maybe Echidna. And Nailah. And so on.

If she were put into the regular summoning pool like the Muspellians this is absolutely what her Forging Bonds would be. Alas, every OC seems destined to be a Mythic going forward, regardless of whether they deserve that status or not...

5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

and Anna would be using it to try to get more money, but it'd probably backfire horribly.

Such as the winner of the tournament demanding Anna wrestle her to keep the money? xD

5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Ladies' Muscle Beach banner this summer please, IS. If you must do a beach theme with a feminine majority, give us those muscle-bound could-rip-you-head-off gals showing off those guns.

Agreed! Again, it'd be nice to see some variety on those banners instead of just "the standard" choices 🙂

Overarching lore-wise, this post suggested two interesting explanations for the "ten Nine Realms" situation:

  1. Considering Jotunheimr and Nidavellir's constant warring, it's possible Nidavellir broke off from the former in the past, meaning they're technically two parts of one Realm in the FEH-verse.
  2. Freyja and Freyr were recruiting the Alfr to fight in the Vanaheim and Asgard war which they lost, meaning Vanaheim was annexed into the latter (thus the two being considered one Realm).

It's some compelling stuff and I'm curious what you all think of it. Especially you @Mercakete , since you seem fond of Norse mythoology too 😄

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5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

On the topic of poor Alfonse, my opinion is split. I do feel bad for him, and agree that Dagr's not really taking this as seriously as she should be. That said, her behavior fits my humor style. Alfonse getting frustrated doesn't, so my pity for him is sincere. That said, in some ways, how Dagr treats him (the flirting, anyway) is kind of like how several male characters boldly flirt with female ones throughout the series, and the gender role reversal is refreshing, and Alfonse's response is even like that of the multitude of women who respond to the likes of Sain, Laslow, and Gatrie

Such a role reversal does have a bit of a problem for Dagr. Alfonse is the only male around and everyone else is a waifu. There's no one else to flirt with. Bruno and Hrid technically exist but Bruno spends 90% of the story being MIA and Hrid seems a character that's only supposed to be around for book 2.

However I don't think Dagr is primarily supposed to be flirty. I think she's more meant as a boisterous, foolish jock.

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7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

However I don't think Dagr is primarily supposed to be flirty. I think she's more meant as a boisterous, foolish jock.

That's fair. It's the sense I got too. I think she's just flirting with Alfonse to wind him up, but it's still a nice change of pace from the other flirts 🙂

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11 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Such a role reversal does have a bit of a problem for Dagr. Alfonse is the only male around and everyone else is a waifu. There's no one else to flirt with. Bruno and Hrid technically exist but Bruno spends 90% of the story being MIA and Hrid seems a character that's only supposed to be around for book 2.

However I don't think Dagr is primarily supposed to be flirty. I think she's more meant as a boisterous, foolish jock.

If she tags along, there's always Otr and maybe even Fafnir. FE flirts tend not to care what side of the field you're on if you suit their tastes, even if the flirting is only temporary and mixed with a bit of enmity. (Like, "It's too bad you're on the other side. I'm going to have to mess up that pretty face of yours." or something.)

I do agree that she's more of a "barrels into everything" sort of character first and foremost. Still, being a flirt doesn't have to be her main trait for her to be a flirt.

@DefyingFates

I don't think she's trying to annoy him by flirting with him. She doesn't have enough of a sense of cause and effect/ability or patience to think ahead for that.

 

Onto that realms topic you were curious about (though I'll only respond to the points you posted here since that's more convenient for me.)

It's fairly obvious that not every country is its own full realm (especially as Otr mentioned that they had just conquered "another" country. So, clearly, there are even multiple countries within a single realm, though there are certainly bigger and smaller ones with more or less power. I believe that the player only really visits the big/powerful/plot-important ones.) New worlds must be accessed through gates made by the Askran royalty, and the Emblian royalty has the power to close these gates. However, it is unknown if a world is synonymous with a realm (and I don't think it is considering each FE game is its own world, and there are even multiple versions of these worlds out there, to the point where, if I recall correctly, the World of Blazing (FE7) is separate from the World of Binding (FE6), even though these are the same world during different periods of time.) However, it is not clear if new realms must be accessed through these portals as well.

Hel had a gate leading to and from it of the same nature that Askr uses to access the other worlds, as (if I am remembering this right) it was opened by Askran royalty and could be closed by Emblian royalty (but the Emblians refused so the Askrans erected a barrier to keep the forces of Hel away.) Obviously, the world of dreams was only accessible through sleep, making it sort of unique and set apart from the other worlds, having its own way of entering and exiting apart from gates. The same can be said of the realm of nightmares, except that (especially since Mirabilis had to help the Askrans and friends enter the realm of dreams by going through the realm of nightmares) it seems like these two places don't have a barrier so much as a border between them. As for the rest of the places we've been, there is nothing indicating that there was any travel through these gates (or other special ways of entering or exiting) between Asakr, Embla, Nifl, Muspell, the dwarves' country (which became Nidvallir after the defeat of the giants) or Jortenheimer (which may or may not technically belong to Nidvallir since the giants lost the war, even if they have been given the right to govern themselves.) (Apologies for any butchered names.)

Given all this, there is a rather obvious question: According to the canon of FEH (NOT according to Norse mythology, since FEH is its own entity and while the mythos are good for helping to predict things, they are far from binding to FEH's own canon), what are the nine realms? Geographic locations within the same plane of existence/world? Separate worlds entirely? Certain powerful countries? Does it have more to do with the rulers of these realms being descended from the gods, and simply being where these important persons reside than geographic location? It's impossible to say right now. During the Adrift Tempest Trial, Loki mentions nine...something. Either dragons or gods, but not realms, when talking to young Azura. It seems like Azura was tied to it somehow, perhaps being a sort of parallel being to the ones we will inevitably deal with in FEH. Loki also has an interest in those with the blood of the four dragons (Askr, Embla, Nifl, and Muspell), and even directly involved herself in their conflict. This perhaps points to this being more of a bloodline issue (related to certain, important, powerful beings -- perhaps those "corrupt gods" Lif keeps talking about, or certain dragons, as previously mentioned (though these are not necessarily mutually exclusive)) than a geographic one.

 

And now, onto another topic, though I'm short on time, so I'll try to make this quick: Valentine's Henriette's quotes didn't seem particularly strange to me, though I get why people may think it sounds like she may die at some point here. That said, I've only heard her tap quotes.

The one I really want to talk about, however, is Valentine's Lif. In his duo conversation with Valentine's Thrasir, it's mentioned that they were told to go to the Day of Devotion festivities, but not told much of why -- just that they "would understand" once they did. It's mentioned that it was specifically a "she" who told them to do this. The obvious assumption is that the "she" here is Thorr since she's the one who recruited them to work for Alfador. HOWEVER, here's the big thing: Lif mentions that they have an overarching mission to destroy those old gods. This was huge news to me when I saw that. Somewhere between Thorr recruiting Lif and Thrasir and Lif and Thrasir recruiting Triandra and Plumeria, Lif and Thrasir received this overarching mission. Since Lif and Thrasir didn't seem that bothered when they were recruited, but Lif in particular expressed intense disgust for the gods after that (when recruiting the dark fairies), it is entirely possible that either Thorr was planning on overthrowing the old gods the whole time, or Loki convinced Thorr's recruits to turn against the gods after said two recruits met said old gods. She could have pointed out any corruption within them since Lif and Thrasir would have already seen them for themselves, and could very well have flipped sides after that. Plus, in the mythos, it's always Loki who causes Ragnarok, and Loki recruiting fallen foes to oppose the corrupt old gods could very well be this incarnation of her inciting Ragnarok. Plus, it fits Loki's chaotic style, getting previous baddies to work on the opposite side. It would also explain why it was Lif and Thrasir who recruited Plumeria and Triandra instead of Thorr.

Anyway, that's what I saw there.

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@Mercakete: Oh wow, that was a...lot xD Then again, I should have expected as much!

I didn't know about Lif's Duo conversation, so thanks for that! Maybe Thorr just wanted to give them a day with his family? Loki convincing the old villains to instigate Ragnarok is a clever idea, thank you for that!

10 hours ago, Mercakete said:

It would also explain why it was Lif and Thrasir who recruited Plumeria and Triandra instead of Thorr.

It would, but in hindsight it could also just be IS being reluctant to create a model for Thorr too 😛

Edited by DefyingFates

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@Mercakete

Honestly, when Lif mentioned their mission, I don't think he was talking about any official mission from Thorr. He blatantly says he will show the gods the error of their arrogance when Thorr recruits him, and she more or less says "I'd like to see you try."

Thorr is fascinated by the idea of mortals trying to rage against the gods, which is why I think she's allowing Lif and Thrasir to do as they please.

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3 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

 

Honestly, when Lif mentioned their mission, I don't think he was talking about any official mission from Thorr. He blatantly says he will show the gods the error of their arrogance when Thorr recruits him, and she more or less says "I'd like to see you try."

Thorr is fascinated by the idea of mortals trying to rage against the gods, which is why I think she's allowing Lif and Thrasir to do as they please.

There are 2 missions he and Thrasir talk about in that conversation. One is simply to go the the festival (an immediate mission.) The other is the overarching, long-term mission (destroy the gods.) As for Lif saying he wants to get rid of the gods when he was recruited, I don't remember that at all. Are you sure it wasn't something more like "I don't intend to remain at the whims of the gods forever?" Because that's vastly different from "I'm going to destroy them."

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7 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Are you sure it wasn't something more like "I don't intend to remain at the whims of the gods forever?"

It was this, @Sentinel07, though of course I wouldn't be surprised if his plan became "pull a Kratos" right after.

Quote

Lif's exact words (script here)\:

"Thórr, you have my word. I will bind
myself to your contract. I will fight
for you.
But remember this: I do not intend
to bind myself to you for all eternity.
I will free myself from you.
I will serve as proof that the
arrogance of the gods has its
bounds."

 

Edited by DefyingFates

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Yeah, that doesn't sound nearly as aggressive as he is later on. I think something happened to agitate him, and that very well could have been Loki manipulating him. The guy's really emotionally damaged -- it wouldn't take entirely too much to make him go berserk again, especially with something morality-driven (since he's morality-driven both as Alfonse and in his crazed form.)

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On 2/18/2021 at 10:26 PM, Mercakete said:

There are 2 missions he and Thrasir talk about in that conversation. One is simply to go the the festival (an immediate mission.) The other is the overarching, long-term mission (destroy the gods.) As for Lif saying he wants to get rid of the gods when he was recruited, I don't remember that at all. Are you sure it wasn't something more like "I don't intend to remain at the whims of the gods forever?" Because that's vastly different from "I'm going to destroy them."

I think you may have misread what I said. I never said he wanted to get rid of them. Rather that he was going to teach them a lesson about their arrogance, to which Thorr just praised him for his drive and welcomed him to try.

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13 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

I think you may have misread what I said. I never said he wanted to get rid of them. Rather that he was going to teach them a lesson about their arrogance, to which Thorr just praised him for his drive and welcomed him to try.

You make it sound a lot more aggressive than it was. There was a drastic change between Lif when he was first recruited (he was very calm) and when we next saw him, which was when he recruited the dark fairies (he was enraged, absolutely disgusted, and vengeful.) His attitude was not at all the same, showing that something happened between those times. And what happened? Well, since he went with Torr after he was recruited into the gods' army, the obvious conclusion to come to is that he saw firsthand what the pantheon was like, and that produced a hatred for them. Before, he commented on their arrogance offhandedly. He didn't have a drive to "teach them a lesson" so much as he figured that would be a natural result of not serving them forever. Now, though, he is directly opposing them (or at least planning to. He's still Alfonse -- he's going to fight smart, which means biding his time until he's ready to strike. However, another way in which he's still Alfonse is that he's driven by his morals, which are clearly being offended. That's why the wait and meticulation are so hard on him: he can't stand to abide these gods' behavior, even though he must for the sake of the plan.)

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Am I the only one thinking Loki is the dragon that created embla and has been influencing Veronica and Bruno  They, and even some resplendents, share that black feathered collar and dark colors.

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15 hours ago, Lemmy said:

Am I the only one thinking Loki is the dragon that created embla and has been influencing Veronica and Bruno  They, and even some resplendents, share that black feathered collar and dark colors.

Interesting theory, though that would mean that Loki's real name is Embla, since Embla, Askr, Nifl, and Muspell were all named after the dragons which granted their founders the power to...well, found their countries. It would also make her Bruno and Veronica's ancestor, since (as shown with Muspell and Nifl) the royal family has blood ties to their dragons (at least Muspell and Nifl do, but I think Embla and Askr do too, given their royal lines' unique gate abilities.) I don't think she is, though. That said, she may be the dark deity who cursed their family (if it wasn't Embla itself.)

Also, with those new named tracks that just came out, there's further evidence to support my theory that Embla is an earth dragon and Askr is a wind dragon. (One of the tracks is called "Wind of Askr.") Also, Embla hates Askr's guts, and classically in FE, evil dragons have been earth dragons. Plus, there are 4 seasonal elements, each of which can be represented by one of the four dragons: Fire (Muspell), Water (Nifl), Wind (Askr) and Earth (Embla.)

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Welp, I'd say the chapter was in some ways entertaining and completely boring in others.

On the plus side, the Jotnar sisters are very entertaining, and I'm pleasantly surprised Nott was not the stereotypical mature older sister type and is instead as nutty as her sister. A nice subversion of expectations.

On the minus side, the Summoner is kidnapped.....again. Also, Reginn still isn't winning me over. Really hoping something happens to win me over on her because she's been kind of boring. All her dialogue is just so...generic. Like very typical little sister talk.

On another note, I really wonder if Gramr will actually be a weapon in gameplay or if it'll be story only.

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Last chapter had me on the fence about whether to find Dagr entertaining or annoying, but now I've definitely settled on entertaining.

Dagr asking if Alfonse and the summoner were a couple was great. It feels to me like a lot of the dialogue assumes the summoner is a straight guy, so I'm glad to finally get a character assuming something different.

Not a fan of Nott so far, but maybe she'll get more interesting with time, like Dagr. We sure seem to be picking up a lot of allies fast though, I'm not sure how they'll manage all of them. Isn't Eitri still with the party? She didn't get any lines, and Reginn's role was pretty brief.

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