What are the best units to train in The Binding Blade?

[ping]

1 hour ago, Fates-Blade said:

No I didn't I actually babied her, I was really hoping I could make Shanna and Thea powerful then give Juno stat boosting items so they could use their triangle attack and supports to be even better but they, unfortunately, just aren't worth it.

I don't know, Lv.17 in ch.15-16 isn't particularly high, especially for an early joiner such as Shanna. You can easily have characters trained to Lv. 20 and promoted by that point.

The whole "XP stealing" stuff is simply bad advice.

• You can use promoted units to set up kills more easily, in particular if their Str isn't that high. Marcus works wonders this way, an early-promoted Shanna can work similarly. For combat without a kill, the XP gain isn't even reduced that severely.
• At worst, leaning on a promoted unit "trades difficulty" - it makes the current chapter easier because of their higher stats, but it'll make them a bit weaker long-term.
• in Shanna's case, she's not an amazing combat unit in the lategame no matter how you cut it. Competent, sure, but her main value lies in her mobility and the ability to lift other units over obstacles. Even with slightly gimped lategame combat by early-promoting her, her overall usefulness isn't affected too much. And in exchange, she becomes an excellent, highly mobile combat unit during the Western Isles arc.
• Not Shanna-specific, but promoting a unit at Lv. 15 doesn't impact their lategame performance that much. If they lose 2-3 level-ups in total (keep in mind that units don't really reach Lv. 20/20 in BinBla either way), that's around -1 point in most stats, maybe -2 in a stat where their growth is particularly high.
• Speaking of high growths, a fair number of units cap their best stats before Lv. 20. Fir and Rutger cap their Skl and Spd around Lv. 14 (a bit later for Fir's Skl, but it's not the biggest deal), which means that their level-ups 15-20 will be significantly less impactful than before. Promoting does not only provide them with a big immediate boost, but it also uncaps those stats. Same with Shanna (caps Spd at Lv. 15), Milady (Str at Lv. 17), Zeiss (Str basically immediately), or Gonzales (Str after 7 level-ups).

Unless you're playing a ranked run, maximizing XP is not the goal of the game. It might make the endgame slightly easier, but also makes the early- and midgame more difficult by a larger degree - and in most FE games, those sections of the game are definitely not easier than the endgame to begin with. Of course, nobody is stopping you from promoting as late as you want - it's a single player game after all, and I know that I tend to promote later than is technically optimal - but if someone is struggling to beat a chapter, it's almost always worth a look if there's a promotion item that they're willing to use. The warning about "wasting XP" is really just a whole lot of hot air.

[orangeapple]

2 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

However, if a promoted unit is killing unpromoted enemies you are losing EXP that can easily go to unpromoted ally units.

For example unpromoted Rutger, Lugh, Lilina, Fir, Alen, or Lance getting the EXP instead of promoted Shanna or Rutger.

Remember that experience is a means to victory, but experience is definitely not the win condition. Try to view each chapter as puzzles you have to solve. As leader of the army, you don't owe Shanna anything. You can promote her at level 10 if necessary, the promotion is worth about 5 levelups worth of stats for a strong combat unit, to make certain early chapters easier. Then relegate her to a rescue role rather than combat unit on later chapters. Then sacrifice Shanna to save Roy or another unit later on. Cold-blooded, I know, but it's pretty much the same thing as putting her on the bench, you'll never see her again anyways. You don't owe Rutger, Lugh, Lilina, Fir, Alen, or Lance any exp either. Bench them permanently if you want to, game is still easily winnable without them.

Why did the creators of Binding Blade send you about 50 units to recruit? When you can never deploy above 10-15 units on most maps.

A big part of your army is meant to die off to your tactical mistakes or unlucky events like 10% hit or 2% critical. Same turn reinforcements are a big killer too. The other units are meant to be your reserve force, with base stats good enough to be slated in anytime.

Players are afraid of having units die and saving into an unwinnable spot, but the game designers are even more afraid of that happening. The game is designed to be winnable even with massive casualties.

The game gives you strong pieces like Percival, Hugh, Yodel, Douglas, Niime, Yodel, Melady, Zeiss, Dayan, Juno, and Karel who all have high enough base stats to outclass the stats of the current enemies. Roy is your king piece, your most important unit. Everyone else is expendable. Your most important units after your king piece are your healers, who keep your army going. You get 3 early healers, and 3 more healers in the lategame. And 4 magic users you can promote too. So the game makes sure that you have enough healers at all times.

The most frustrating thing in Fire Emblem is when you are about to beat an extremely hard chapter, but then one of your better units suddenly die to a 1% critical. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it time to restart the chapter? No, unless you have a self imposed victory condition of no deaths at all. Remember that only Roy needs to survive to win. Try not to reset the chapter too much, because Binding Blade is a role-playing game, and resetting too much breaks the immersion and adds a lot of frustration.

At the end of the day, there's no correct way to play the game, it's your choice. But the best units to train are without a doubt, unpromoted, high growth rate units simply because they get a lot more exp and end up better at 20/20 on average. It does lead to a different difficulty curve though, very steep at the beginning and middle with many frustrating restarts, and super easy later chapters including final chapter. I usually prefer the consistent difficulty level of letting units die and using prepromotes.

Edited December 9, 2020 by orangeapple

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, orangeapple said:

Why did the creators of Binding Blade send you about 50 units to recruit? When you can never deploy above 10-15 units on most maps.

A big part of your army is meant to die off to your tactical mistakes or unlucky events like 10% hit or 2% critical. Same turn reinforcements are a big killer too. The other units are meant to be your reserve force, with base stats good enough to be slated in anytime.

Players are afraid of having units die and saving into an unwinnable spot, but the game designers are even more afraid of that happening. The game is designed to be winnable even with massive casualties.

That doesn't work when most of the cast is so shit or outclassed that you'd be better off restarting to keep the better unit, or if not, continuing to invest in the decent units you have left rather than trying to raise an underleveled unit that probably won't justify the effort for the sake of filling up a deployment slot.

2 hours ago, orangeapple said:

The game gives you strong pieces like Percival, Hugh, Yodel, Douglas, Niime, Yodel, Melady, Zeiss, Dayan, Juno, and Karel who all have high enough base stats to outclass the stats of the current enemies. Roy is your king piece, your most important unit. Everyone else is expendable. Your most important units after your king piece are your healers, who keep your army going. You get 3 early healers, and 3 more healers in the lategame. And 4 magic users you can promote too. So the game makes sure that you have enough healers at all times.

The first two I've bolded suck (Zeiss due to being underleveled and Juno due to awful base stats; I don't think she can outclass mooks on normal mode with those stats), and the latter might not even have the chance to see play if you've been playing that badly (thanks to certain characters needing to be alive to access side chapters, and sometimes finishing the prior chapters within a turn limit. By the way, you need all the weapons from the side chapters to get the chance to go beyond chapter 22). 

2 hours ago, orangeapple said:

The most frustrating thing in Fire Emblem is when you are about to beat an extremely hard chapter, but then one of your better units suddenly die to a 1% critical. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it time to restart the chapter? No, unless you have a self imposed victory condition of no deaths at all. Remember that only Roy needs to survive to win. Try not to reset the chapter too much, because Binding Blade is a role-playing game, and resetting too much breaks the immersion and adds a lot of frustration.

I would say Binding Blade has a lot of immersion-breaking and frustration-inducing elements regardless. That's a topic for another time though.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Benice]

24 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The first two I've bolded suck (Zeiss due to being underleveled

Being underleved by three levels does not make you suck. You've simply said "Zeiss joins late, so he's bad" but haven't brought up any numbers or stats to support this. I showed that 10/1 Zeiss does very well, that he's not hard to raise up to level 10 and that he'll be useful on both routes, so please explain what about needing three levels "sucks". Whether or not Zeiss is considered the worst unpromoted flier does not change the fact that needing three levels to become a flier with 8 movement, 22 strength and 17 defense who doubles somewhat reliably is not "sucky." He's an investment, and one that will pay off very well. Zeiss is not a level one unit with level one stats; he's a level seven unit with level fifteeen+ stats. He is not a must-use unit, but suck is a flagrant exaggeration.

I agree that Juno sucks as a combat unit, though.

24 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

That doesn't work when most of the cast is so shit or outclassed that you'd be better off restarting to keep the better unit, or if not, continuing to invest in the decent units you have left rather than trying to raise an underleveled unit that probably won't justify the effort for the sake of filling up a deployment slot.

Legitimate question: Have you ever done an ironman?

Either way, being worse =/= being bad. Fir is worse than Rutger but isn't a bad unit. Would I be better off using Rutger and resetting after his death? Yes. This does not cause Fir to be unusable or bad. Allance are worse than Perceval, but Allance aren't bad units. A unit with 20/20/20 str/spd/def doesn't automatically make a unit with 18/18/18 really bad. Sue is worse than Shin, but may choose to use Sue regardless because she's fine in her own right. You can complete a game without all, (or any) of the best units. You can beat FE6 without Milady or Perceval. If that's the case, then there's obviously someone who is good enough to do their job, even if they're doing their job in an inferior manner. Again, if Cormag is better than Tana but both fliers with good growths and decent bases, why should I have to choose one over the other if I have the choice to use two good fliers?

Edited December 9, 2020 by Benice

[sinfonic18]

Okay I've gotten lost in the conversation so I think I'll see myself out now. XD

[joevar]

54 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay I've gotten lost in the conversation so I think I'll see myself out now. XD

you winning son?

at this point im not even surprised you already beat the game even when this debate still hot 🤣

[Fates-Blade]

6 hours ago, Benice said:

Thing is, other than in a ranked run, exp distribution doesn't matter so much. Plus, if I have a unit who is already promoted, like Rutger, for example, I don't have to give them as much exp-they have what they need already. I can give more kills to my other growth units as opposed to splitting it up more to feed yet another growth unit.

"exp distribution doesn't matter so much."

Unless you wantmany strong units in your team which I do.

"a unit who is already promoted, like Rutger, for example, I don't have to give them as much exp-they have what they need already." A promotion only gives about two levels worth of stats on average.

A unit could gain 4-5 levels past 10 or 15 unpromoted which is double the promotion stats.

And I understand certain characters cap early, so then I could see promoting early as an option.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Fates-Blade

[Fates-Blade]

6 hours ago, ping said:

You can use promoted units to set up kills more easily, in particular if their Str isn't that high. Marcus works wonders this way, an early-promoted Shanna can work similarly. For combat without a kill, the XP gain isn't even reduced that severely.
 

 Marcus is already promoted though, so weakening an enemy fits for him, but Shanna has room for growth.

And I understand certain characters could cap early, so then I could see promoting early as an option.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Fates-Blade

[Benice]

1 minute ago, Fates-Blade said:

a unit who is already promoted, like Rutger, for example, I don't have to give them as much exp-they have what they need already." A promotion only gives about two levels worth of stats on average.

Let's test this on Rutger.

He gets +5 Hp, which is equivocal to seven levels. He gets +2 strength, which is equivocal to five levels, he gets +1 to speed and +2 to skill, both of which are inconsequential because he's doubling anyways and he'll already have capped both. Defense and resistence: Rutger gets the equivalent of eleven levels.

That is a big improvement. Not to mention a +30 crit bonus which is invaluable.

16 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

exp distribution doesn't matter so much."

Unless you want strong unit all around which I do.

Promotion and distribution of exp have little to do with each other. I cannot explain it better than how Ping did it; it is an immediate improvement that will allow a unit to be a crutch, and in some cases just a starting boost. If Rutger could promote at around, say, ch. 12, he would not be considered as good as he is. The lategame gives you plenty of prepromotes to deal with the enemies. In HM, the ability to ORKO easily, especially in the earlygame, is practically nonexistent for everyone unpromoted, and even still, Rutger, (or Earlypromoted Deke) will be doing it without effective damage or crits. Earlypromoted Allance also will have a shot at it. (Noah can work as a budget Allance)

 

35 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

Marcus is already promoted though, so weakening an enemy fits for him.

What's the difference between a prepromote and a promoted unit, though?

[sinfonic18]

2 hours ago, joevar said:

you winning son?

at this point im not even surprised you already beat the game even when this debate still hot 🤣

Kind of, lol

Well I just beat Chapter 20 tonight, so almost there, but not quite yet. Got all the gaiden chapters done this time, so I'll be able to play a few more chapters this time thankfully.

But oooh boy, I didn't expect this thread to erupt as much as it did! Haha. My Blazing Blade one didn't spark too much controversy, but then again, there really isn't any bad units in that one (normal mode at least) so it was pretty straightforward. Only a few units in this game are viable really. 

[ping]

3 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay I've gotten lost in the conversation so I think I'll see myself out now. XD

Apologies The FE fandom seems to love (and hate) arguing over characters, be it about their numbers or their dialogue. I hope the thread has been helpful before all those words, though.

[joevar]

1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

But oooh boy, I didn't expect this thread to erupt as much as it did! Haha. My Blazing Blade one didn't spark too much controversy, but then again, there really isn't any bad units in that one (normal mode at least) so it was pretty straightforward. Only a few units in this game are viable really.

there is bad char im sure, but the game not demanding as much as this one

[Hello72207]

13 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

A unit can barely level up if they're promoted early on.

Yes, but Shanna after she caps speed really isn't going to gain much more from her levels. Shanna gets bulk, str, and con from her promotion, three things she wants. Not only that but even with like 7 str she still two-rounds fighters in the western isles with a sword, and dodges all of them. In lategame sure her combat struggles a bit, but she still has massive flier utility, and Killer lances fix most of the combat issues she has, especially in NM. After you promote a unit they don't need as many levels to keep up, you can use them less. Not only this but promo gains are ludicrous in FE6, so it's even more reasonable to do so. Looking at other FE games and reasons to early promo there:

In gaiden promo gains are very good, give lots of bonuses, and growths are poor.

In FE7 HHM, after you are like five levels higher then the enemy xp gain slows down to pretty much that of a promoted unit anyways.

In FE8, if you wait til level 20 to promote, the game's gonna be mostly over, especially with units like Ewan, Knoll, L'arachel, and even some of the other units.

16 hours ago, ping said:

Since this isn't a topic about tier lists (for the record: Milady > Shanna >> Tate > Zeiss, if it was

Think it's Shanna and Melady in S tier, Tate in B, and Zeiss in like high C.

16 hours ago, Benice said:

At base, she has the same speed as Zeiss does with an iron lance and her strength isn't high enough to do anything with slim lances.

Well, I suppose it's a good thing that Tate's bases come 8 chapters earlier then.

13 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

desert chapter where enemy Wyvern lords, Wyvern Riders, Hero's, very powerful Mercenaries Brigands and  Berserkers are Thea can barely damage any of them and may be doubled by them.

here's the thing. The unpromoted fliers are still some of the best units in the desert chapter. They have unlimited mobility, and can rescue drop your other units, use a torch with their high move for more visibility, or use swords to kill all the brigands, who have no chance of hitting them if they have swords equipped.

12 hours ago, Benice said:

Rutger is another unit best to earlypromote, since he'll ORKO everything for a really, really long time, (possibly even at endgame) as opposed to not ORKO'ing for a lot longer. There are great short-term bonuses that sometimes are good enough for a whole game.

Not only this, but Rutger will still be one of your fastest-leveling units, as he is your best bosskiller. Bosskills give a free level a chapter, so Rutger's keeping up.

11 hours ago, ping said:

Unless you're playing a ranked run, maximizing XP is not the goal of the game. It might make the endgame slightly easier, but also makes the early- and midgame more difficult by a larger degree - and in most FE games, those sections of the game are definitely not easier than the endgame to begin with. Of course, nobody is stopping you from promoting as late as you want - it's a single player game after all, and I know that I tend to promote later than is technically optimal - but if someone is struggling to beat a chapter, it's almost always worth a look if there's a promotion item that they're willing to use. The warning about "wasting XP" is really just a whole lot of hot air.

Also, the lategame of BB is quite a bit easier then the earlygame, as all your powerhouses are with you, and you have legendary weapons to kill whatever you need to.

7 hours ago, Benice said:

Allance are worse than Perceval, but Allance aren't bad units.

Not really. Allance are better then Perceval IMO, at least the one who got the ch 8 knight's crest, and especially if they have their support.

5 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

"a unit who is already promoted, like Rutger, for example, I don't have to give them as much exp-they have what they need already." A promotion only gives about two levels worth of stats on average.

In Binding blade, almost every promo gives +2 or more in every stat. With Binding blade's worse growths, this can equal 6 or more levels of growths, or, in some cases, such as Warrior's +2 speed for Wade (equal to 10 levels of training) or Lilina's +3 in speed (8 levels of training), and these are only some of the slightly extreme ones.

5 hours ago, Benice said:

He gets +5 Hp, which is equivocal to seven levels. He gets +2 strength, which is equivocal to five levels, he gets +1 to speed and +2 to skill, both of which are inconsequential because he's doubling anyways and he'll already have capped both. Defense and resistence: Rutger gets the equivalent of eleven levels.

That is a big improvement. Not to mention a +30 crit bonus which is invaluable.

He also gets extra move, which is incredible for Binding Blade, access to better swords earlier thanks to the weapon level boost, and better con to wield those swords (although this one really doesn't matter, as con is pretty worthless on fast units.) 

1 hour ago, joevar said:

there is bad char im sure, but the game not demanding as much as this one

The archers, Nino, Guy, Karla, Karel, Wallace, Dorcas, Bartre...

[Benice]

3 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Think it's Shanna and Melady in S tier, Tate in B, and Zeiss in like high C.

You forgot Merlinus, the best unit in the game! How many others can say that they're literally impossible to kill?

3 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Well, I suppose it's a good thing that Tate's bases come 8 chapters earlier then.

At a point where doubling is still infrequent for her and her strength/con don't allow her to really get better options. At base, their damage output relative to their join time is about equal; in 12x, Tate will be dealing about 22-18 damage in a round against a normal* enemy she doubles with an iron lance. (Meaning she'll 2-3RKO most enemies) Comparing that to Zeiss,( Using ch.17I as an example) who will be doing more or less the same, (22-16 damage, depending on stat variance in enemies) which still allows for a 2RKO fairly frequently. Zeiss also has more options most notably horseslayers, which will let him OHKO a lot of cavs. 20/9 Tate could OHKO too, and Milady doesn't need the help to ORKO. (10/1 Zeiss also ORKO's them.)

But if Tate is considered better, she probably is.

3 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Not really. Allance are better then Perceval IMO, at least the one who got the ch 8 knight's crest, and especially if they have their support.

I've never actually used Allance, but from what I've seen, (and from what I can tell) they're good for the midgame, but they won't carry the same way Perceval can once he joins. I don't really know, though.

[Hello72207]

47 minutes ago, Benice said:

4 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Not really. Allance are better then Perceval IMO, at least the one who got the ch 8 knight's crest, and especially if they have their support.

I've never actually used Allance, but from what I've seen, (and from what I can tell) they're good for the midgame, but they won't carry the same way Perceval can once he joins. I don't really know, though.

The one that got the first Knight's crest will have stats a little worse then Pervical, probably better skill, but they are better for the 15 chapters that Percival isn't there, and similar after he joins, eventually becoming better again in the endgame.

49 minutes ago, Benice said:

You forgot Merlinus, the best unit in the game! How many others can say that they're literally impossible to kill?

Roy.

50 minutes ago, Benice said:

At a point where doubling is still infrequent for her

if doubling is infrequent for her, then it's even more infrequent for Zeiss, who has less AS, later join time, and lower growth.

51 minutes ago, Benice said:

in 12x, Tate will be dealing about 22-18 damage in a round against a normal* enemy she doubles with an iron lance. (Meaning she'll 2-3RKO most enemies)

She 2-3rkos most enemies, which is actually really good for setting up kills for her because most of your units will almost but not quite barely finish off units, so she can swoop in and get the kill.

52 minutes ago, Benice said:

Zeiss also has more options most notably horseslayers, which will let him OHKO a lot of cavs.

You have the horseslayer for ch 13 too, which Tate can also use after promo. Tate is closer to promo then Zeiss is, and you get an elysian whip in her join chapter and then another one in ch 12. Tate also has 11, 12, and 12x to train her lance rank so she might even be able to use the horseslayer before promo and get unpromoted xp gain against those cavs, and then promote her for Arcadia, which is the best chapter to be a flier for in this game, period. Zeiss has 16x to train his lance rank if he wants to get unpromoted horseslayer xp, and 16x only. Not only this but 16x isn't the friendliest place to low avoid units with terrible resistance, for several reasons.

55 minutes ago, Benice said:

But if Tate is considered better, she probably is.

Flier utility and decent combat earlier in the game, available for the best chapter to be a flier in when Zeiss isn't available for, easy to get to promo, etc.

[joevar]

7 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Think it's Shanna and Melady in S tier, Tate in B, and Zeiss in like high C.

shanna and tate in A, Melady in S, zeiss B

  

7 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

The archers, Nino, Guy, Karla, Karel, Wallace, Dorcas, Bartre...

those were the guilty party huh? not as much as FE6, but maybe the percentage about the same. but the game itself is easier overall anyway

Edited December 9, 2020 by joevar

[Fates-Blade]

13 hours ago, Benice said:

Let's test this on Rutger.

He gets +5 Hp, which is equivocal to seven levels. He gets +2 strength, which is equivocal to five levels, he gets +1 to speed and +2 to skill, both of which are inconsequential because he's doubling anyways and he'll already have capped both. Defense and resistence: Rutger gets the equivalent of eleven levels.

That is a big improvement. Not to mention a +30 crit bonus which is invaluable.

Promotion and distribution of exp have little to do with each other. I cannot explain it better than how Ping did it; it is an immediate improvement that will allow a unit to be a crutch, and in some cases just a starting boost. If Rutger could promote at around, say, ch. 12, he would not be considered as good as he is. The lategame gives you plenty of prepromotes to deal with the enemies. In HM, the ability to ORKO easily, especially in the earlygame, is practically nonexistent for everyone unpromoted, and even still, Rutger, (or Earlypromoted Deke) will be doing it without effective damage or crits. Earlypromoted Allance also will have a shot at it. (Noah can work as a budget Allance)

 

What's the difference between a prepromote and a promoted unit, though?

I do agree characters like Rutger with the +30 crit bonus promoting early could be useful if needed and I agree the +5 HP is worth 5 levels.

However, HP is the worst stat to obtain, hence the Angelic Robe +7 HP, Rutger has a good chance of getting HP at level up when he's a Myrmidon and a player usually doesn't need a lot of levels for Rutger to get Str despite his 30% chance. It works more often than that for players because of random growths. If the growths were fixed it would make sense to worry about him getting Str but not if they are random, they can easily be manipulated.

But basicaly, I still don't think promoting early is worth it.

Why can't Zelot or Marcus weaken enemies for Tier 1 units instead of Rutger that can grow when at tier 1?

I say that because: A prepromote usually has no room for growth,

a tier 1 unit can have room for growth if they don't promote too early.

It's even better when you realize you can give tier 1 units stat boost items or supports to boost their stats just like or better than a promotion.

Because then they can level up, and weaken enemies for weaker tier 1s.

if the promotion bonuses were 3 minumum and 5 maximum I could see a reason to promote early, but 1-3 is just too low for me.

I would much rather level up most of my tier 1s to level 20 than promote most of them because I don't think the promotion bonuses are worth it most of the time, especially since they can function basically just as well at Tier 1 and there are prepromotes that fundamentally already promoted below level 20 like Marcus, Zelot, Cecilia, Echidna, Dayan, Garret etc.

 

In the end I do see your point, and I agree promotions do offer a boost for units.

However I also say the boosts aren't worth the promotion most of the time.

I don't think a discussion could convince me that 1-3+ stats are worth losing 3-6 level ups basically, especially since there are prepromotes that basically already promoted below level 20.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Fates-Blade

[Benice]

5 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

Fundamentally I don't think a discussion could convince me that 1-3+ stats are worth losing 3-6 level ups, especially since there are prepromotes that already promoted, so to speak, at level 10.

So wait, does that mean that you think I should avoid derailing the topic by not responding to this post? 'Cause I'm kinda confused...

[Fates-Blade]

36 minutes ago, Benice said:

So wait, does that mean that you think I should avoid derailing the topic by not responding to this post? 'Cause I'm kinda confused...

EDIT:

Well that is one reason.

Another reason is I believe we have already posted plenty of reasons to promote or not promote early, and I could go on and on and on with my argument and you might be able to with yours but it is not relevant to this thread and I think what you and I have said on promoting in this thread makes either belief convincing for the OP.

So on this thread I'm not going to discuss promoting further.

You can respond if you want to, I just won't respond back.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Fates-Blade

[Shadow Mir]

15 hours ago, Benice said:

Legitimate question: Have you ever done an ironman?

Either way, being worse =/= being bad. Fir is worse than Rutger but isn't a bad unit. Would I be better off using Rutger and resetting after his death? Yes. This does not cause Fir to be unusable or bad. Allance are worse than Perceval, but Allance aren't bad units. A unit with 20/20/20 str/spd/def doesn't automatically make a unit with 18/18/18 really bad. Sue is worse than Shin, but may choose to use Sue regardless because she's fine in her own right. You can complete a game without all, (or any) of the best units. You can beat FE6 without Milady or Perceval. If that's the case, then there's obviously someone who is good enough to do their job, even if they're doing their job in an inferior manner. Again, if Cormag is better than Tana but both fliers with good growths and decent bases, why should I have to choose one over the other if I have the choice to use two good fliers?

No. And even if I did, I'd disagree with the mentality of "we have reserves" that @orangeapple seems to hold. I followed an H5 ironman of SD that ended in heartbreak (aka, a Game Over) because of some losses the player suffered that he couldn't recover from (in particular, the fact that his best unit fell to a critical hit several chapters before the endgame, but losing the likes of Wolf [who he was forced to sacrifice] Sedgar, Cain and Abel didn't help). 

[sinfonic18]

23 hours ago, ping said:

Apologies The FE fandom seems to love (and hate) arguing over characters, be it about their numbers or their dialogue. I hope the thread has been helpful before all those words, though.

It's been more than helpful! I most likely wouldn't have been able to finish (I haven't finished it quite yet) FE6 without the help of you guys on here. So for that, I thank you all!

22 hours ago, joevar said:

there is bad char im sure, but the game not demanding as much as this one

Exactly. From personal experience Binding Blade is absolutely ruthless and unforgiving. xD Chapter 21 in particular. With it's wave after WAVE of wyverns and promoted wyverns... Not to mention the paladins. I lost a few units there, but I didn't beat myself up over it too much. That map is brutal of all hell lol. Even on hard, other FEs give mercy. 

[joevar]

20 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Exactly. From personal experience Binding Blade is absolutely ruthless and unforgiving. xD Chapter 21 in particular. With it's wave after WAVE of wyverns and promoted wyverns... Not to mention the paladins. I lost a few units there, but I didn't beat myself up over it too much. That map is brutal of all hell lol. Even on hard, other FEs give mercy. 

thats my favorite chapter actually. you really feel like fighting an all out war not small skirmish anymore, and Bern really look backed into a corner they unleash so many troops and the ambush spawn feels more justified since they appear at far end of the map (except Gale. but his troop didnt do anything anyway), and you get to deploy so many char at once

Bern calling for reinforcement from all their stationed troop everywhere is logical here since if they lose here, the war is pretty much over for them

[Hello72207]

18 hours ago, joevar said:

shanna and tate in A, Melady in S, zeiss B

Zeiss is low B at the highest, I can see that, but Shanna is definitely S tier when properly utilized. Her performance is so far above anyone else's that it's worth it.

18 hours ago, joevar said:

those were the guilty party huh? not as much as FE6, but maybe the percentage about the same. but the game itself is easier overall anyway

Wallace, Lyn, Eliwood, Louise, Rath, Renault, Dart, Jaffar...

5 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

It's been more than helpful! I most likely wouldn't have been able to finish (I haven't finished it quite yet) FE6 without the help of you guys on here. So for that, I thank you all!

I don't know what your experience with the game was, but I've noticed that nobody I've met absolutely loved FE6 the first time they played it. After a replay or two, the game really starts to grow on you. It's the opposite with FE7 too, at least with me. The more I play FE7, the less I enjoy it.

5 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Not to mention the paladins. I lost a few units there, but I didn't beat myself up over it too much.

Yeah, that map is pretty hard, especially if you don't have aircalibur or a trained bow user to fight the wyvern lords. Those guys can wreck your units up with their massive attack, high durability, and ok speed.

Although it does give infinite boots.

5 hours ago, joevar said:

thats my favorite chapter actually

same, actually. Ch 21 is such a fun chapter to play because it's one of very few maps in FE where it feels like two armies clashing. You face hordes of powerful wyverns and you truely understand how strong Bern was and how it was able to conquer so much. The reinforcements are fair (although you can cheese them with the warp staff, fliers, or just abusing the max enemy limit of 50).

[joevar]

10 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

Zeiss is low B at the highest, I can see that, but Shanna is definitely S tier when properly utilized. Her performance is so far above anyone else's that it's worth it.

ok, but dont complaint to me, im just taking a quick look at tier list, and relay the info. im not even fond of tier list

11 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

Wallace, Lyn, Eliwood, Louise, Rath, Renault, Dart, Jaffar...

thats almost half the cast...

12 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

but I've noticed that nobody I've met absolutely loved FE6 the first time they played it.

i did. now you met at least one of them. sadly i dont have any proof to back that statement since serenesforest forum did not even exist back in 2006

[Benice]

3 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

but I've noticed that nobody I've met absolutely loved FE6 the first time they played it.

It's-a me, bad FEplayerio!

3 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

same, actually. Ch 21 is such a fun chapter to play because it's one of very few maps in FE where it feels like two armies clashing. You face hordes of powerful wyverns and you truely understand how strong Bern was and how it was able to conquer so much. The reinforcements are fair (although you can cheese them with the warp staff, fliers, or just abusing the max enemy limit of 50).

I agree! A lot of people hate it, but I really like how you aren't supposed to turtle and how each turn is a stressful affair that ends with either you getting destroyed or Bern getting destroyed.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Benice