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What are the best units to train in The Binding Blade?

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This is a lot similar to my Blazing Blade question of the same topic... 

Basically what I'm asking is what are the best units to invest time and resources into? As I said in my previous thread about FE7 I'm not really a big fan of pre-promotes unless they really are good and contribute the whole game (Like seth in the sacred stones) and the "Rate the Unit" threads for FE6 seem to heavily favor pre-promotes, which I'll repeat am not a big fan of. 

So which are the best units to train that aren't so? So far, I'm on chapter 4 and am using Lot, Roy, Lance, Alen, Shanna. Dieck and now Lugh. I picked Lot because he was the best one I had for fighter and I eventually want a Warrior to me team.

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One thing to note is that FE6 doesn't have a whole lot of promotion items to work with. In particular, you'll only be able to promote Allen or Lance until chapter 13 or 15. The second Hero's Crest comes a bit earlier (chapter 10 or 11, depending on a route split), so using both Dieck and Lot is less of a problem. This is a big contributor to why prepromotes are valued very highly in FE6 - you generally have more unit slots than you have growth units that are "optimal" to use, which means that a decent prepromote can be a very valuable filler unit.

That said, you can buy promotion items in the secret shop in chapter 16, which is kinda late for characters that have to wait that long, but it's still something you can work with. I'm not trying to convince you to use ALL THE PREPROMOTES. ;):

Out of the units you've picked, Lot is probably the weakest. Axelock is a pretty severe problem in this game, since it means that Lot will always only be good against lance users and incredibly unreliable against anything else. You could consider using the first Hero's Crests on Dieck and Rutger instead (the order doesn't matter as much on normal difficulty as it does on hard, where Rutger gets a stat boost), especially since Dieck (and your cavs) all get an axe rank on promotion and can use Hand Axes right away. On the other hand, Lot is one of your better options if you want to use the legendary axe, since weapon rank growth is infuriatingly slow in this game.

On the question of healers: Pick one. Healing XP isn't too high, so speading it between multiple healers isn't a great idea, but all three of the early healers are perfectly usable. Saul is generally considered the best and Clarine can be a fun dodgetank after promotion, but even Elen is perfectly fine as far as staff bots go.

You might want to pick up a bow user - their chip utility is much more valuable than it is in FE7 or FE8. The best ones are Sue or Shin (the former on normal mode, the latter on hard), but it's better to pick one, while training (or at least giving some XP) to both Shanna and her sister once she joins. If your nomads gain more XP than your peg knights, you go to Sacae for the second route split, which is generally a more difficult and frustrating experience than the alternative.

One final thing: FE6 does not have "Est"-y characters. Training a severely underpowered unit (like Wendy, Sophia, or Fir on normal mode) won't result in an amazingly good unit (unless you RNG abuse every single level-up ;):); it's just a lot of work to get a unit that'll end up about the same as your regular growth units. The one exception to this rule might be Lilina - she won't necessarily become better than an equally-leveled Lugh, but her very high Mag at the cost of her Spd and survivability means that she's at least quite different from Lugh. Her super-fast Roy support is quite fun, too: +3 Atk and +15 Crit at A support.

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Another thing to note about Binding Blade is that using a unit doesn't mean putting them on your final team. Marcus is very good for the first eight chapters or so, but he's meant to dropped eventually. Zealot is likewise good for a bit, but only a temporary aid. Don't be afraid to use prepromotes during tough chapters and then drop them as you get units you prefer.

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On 11/26/2020 at 1:13 PM, sinfonic18 said:

This is a lot similar to my Blazing Blade question of the same topic... 

Basically what I'm asking is what are the best units to invest time and resources into? As I said in my previous thread about FE7 I'm not really a big fan of pre-promotes unless they really are good and contribute the whole game (Like seth in the sacred stones) and the "Rate the Unit" threads for FE6 seem to heavily favor pre-promotes, which I'll repeat am not a big fan of. 

So which are the best units to train that aren't so? So far, I'm on chapter 4 and am using Lot, Roy, Lance, Alen, Shanna. Dieck and now Lugh. I picked Lot because he was the best one I had for fighter and I eventually want a Warrior to me team.

like someone already said above, some initial party member are not viable for endgame actually, and only stay relevant till midgame.

so i'll give you straight and simple answer, my team in endgame (after deliberate planning, weighing the growth, etc etc):
Lilina, rutger, Thea, Klein, Clarine, Saul, Melady, Raigh, Lance, Echidna, Perceval, Fir, Lugh

Some other units that i train but didnt fully use in endgame:
Astolfo, Dieck, Shanna, Lot, Elen, Lalum

out of those unit, pre promotes are Klein, Echidna, and Perceval only.

Important note, its hard mode, im not LTC-runner, didnt have any self-imposing rule whatsoever when playing. i use arena moderately, (a couple lvl for select unit only, so not spending days in front of arena alone)

then there's this "luck" solve all problem :
rng.jpg.9e314a7a709829ddd0b4026394cd9701.jpg

Edited by joevar

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23 hours ago, ping said:

One thing to note is that FE6 doesn't have a whole lot of promotion items to work with. In particular, you'll only be able to promote Allen or Lance until chapter 13 or 15. The second Hero's Crest comes a bit earlier (chapter 10 or 11, depending on a route split), so using both Dieck and Lot is less of a problem. This is a big contributor to why prepromotes are valued very highly in FE6 - you generally have more unit slots than you have growth units that are "optimal" to use, which means that a decent prepromote can be a very valuable filler unit.

That said, you can buy promotion items in the secret shop in chapter 16, which is kinda late for characters that have to wait that long, but it's still something you can work with. I'm not trying to convince you to use ALL THE PREPROMOTES. ;):

Out of the units you've picked, Lot is probably the weakest. Axelock is a pretty severe problem in this game, since it means that Lot will always only be good against lance users and incredibly unreliable against anything else. You could consider using the first Hero's Crests on Dieck and Rutger instead (the order doesn't matter as much on normal difficulty as it does on hard, where Rutger gets a stat boost), especially since Dieck (and your cavs) all get an axe rank on promotion and can use Hand Axes right away. On the other hand, Lot is one of your better options if you want to use the legendary axe, since weapon rank growth is infuriatingly slow in this game.

On the question of healers: Pick one. Healing XP isn't too high, so speading it between multiple healers isn't a great idea, but all three of the early healers are perfectly usable. Saul is generally considered the best and Clarine can be a fun dodgetank after promotion, but even Elen is perfectly fine as far as staff bots go.

You might want to pick up a bow user - their chip utility is much more valuable than it is in FE7 or FE8. The best ones are Sue or Shin (the former on normal mode, the latter on hard), but it's better to pick one, while training (or at least giving some XP) to both Shanna and her sister once she joins. If your nomads gain more XP than your peg knights, you go to Sacae for the second route split, which is generally a more difficult and frustrating experience than the alternative.

One final thing: FE6 does not have "Est"-y characters. Training a severely underpowered unit (like Wendy, Sophia, or Fir on normal mode) won't result in an amazingly good unit (unless you RNG abuse every single level-up ;):); it's just a lot of work to get a unit that'll end up about the same as your regular growth units. The one exception to this rule might be Lilina - she won't necessarily become better than an equally-leveled Lugh, but her very high Mag at the cost of her Spd and survivability means that she's at least quite different from Lugh. Her super-fast Roy support is quite fun, too: +3 Atk and +15 Crit at A support.

Well, it's funny that you mention that promotion items aren't too abundant in FE6 because I'm on Chapter 8 as of now and haven't come across 1 single promotion item yet. In my playthroughs of FE7 and (especially) FE8 I had like 3 or 4 promotion items at this point. I've noticed Fe6 also has these huge maps and is a lot harder than it's successors. Not that's a bad thing, but it becomes a problem when....

Your units you're using are only getting 1 stat up during level ups. I have no idea what is going on, I've never ran into this in any other FE but my units I'm using aren't getting any stronger besides Roy (almost all his stats go up a level up) and it's really frustrating lol. At this point, I'm going to probably be forced to use prepromotes just to make the game a little bit easier, because as of now, my units barely do any damage besides Roy and Dieck and I can't strategize or work with that even when only two units are worth a dang lol. Lot was my best unit coming up to CH. 7, and like you mentioned, he started missing a ton even against lance users so I dropped him, even though it pained me to do so since fighters are cool. A big offender of this is Shanna. Her strength is so terrible, it takes her 5 rounds just to KO a single mercenary. Her speeds levels up all the time, but what is all that speed when you have no power to attack with lol. Oh, and I forgot about Rutger. I've been using him, and he is a beast. He's my only truly reliable unit. He's actually why I lost Elen but I think it was a pretty fair tradeoff lol. He makes quick work with map bosses, and his growths are decent, too. He's the one big exception to all this. 

As far as healers go, Clarine seems to be doing the job perfectly for me now. I'm pretty proud of myself, since I've only lost 1 unit (which was Elen, but I didn't care that much since Clarine and Saul are better healers) and with how hard of a time I'm having with the game, it's a pretty good feat for me lol. 

I took your advice and started using Sue. Thing is, she is only level 1 and the way units grow in this game, who knows if she'll get stronger lol. She can't really do anything as of now, but I'm willing to invest in her. 

To condense it all in one: This is the hardest FE I've played, and I'm only on Normal mode (I didn't see an option for hard) and my OCD of growing units into stronger ones is biting me in the rear. See, I've played The Sacred Stones on Difficult, all three stories on the Blazing Blade on hard, played Awakening on lunatic and all three routes of Fates on hard and just recently did a playthrough of Three Houses on Maddening Classic and have never had this much trouble lol. I'm not the best FE player out there, I'm pretty noobish, but I wouldn't consider myself that bad. All in all though, it's really a fun time, and just scraping by with 4 units that are barely decent is nerve-wracking and fun, lol. 

16 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Another thing to note about Binding Blade is that using a unit doesn't mean putting them on your final team. Marcus is very good for the first eight chapters or so, but he's meant to dropped eventually. Zealot is likewise good for a bit, but only a temporary aid. Don't be afraid to use prepromotes during tough chapters and then drop them as you get units you prefer.

Yeah... I've learned this the hard way. I haven't used marcus in any combat as of yet, but I've used him to rescue some of my main units when they were near death. He's handy for that. 

28 minutes ago, joevar said:

like someone already said above, some initial party member are not viable for endgame actually, and only stay relevant till midgame.

so i'll give you straight and simple answer, my team in endgame (after deliberate planning, weighing the growth, etc etc):
Lilina, rutger, Thea, Klein, Clarine, Saul, Melady, Raigh, Lance, Echidna, Perceval, Fir, Lugh

Some other units that i train but didnt fully use in endgame:
Astolfo, Dieck, Shanna, Lot, Elen, Lalum

out of those unit, pre promotes are Klein, Echidna, and Perceval only.

Important note, its hard mode, im not LTC-runner, didnt have any self-imposing rule whatsoever when playing. i use arena moderately, (a couple lvl for select unit only, so not spending days in front of arena alone)

then there's this "luck" solve all problem :
rng.jpg.9e314a7a709829ddd0b4026394cd9701.jpg

Hmm, it's very interesting to see you use Lot any more than the beginning chapters. I was planning on using him, but like I stated above, he was missing a lot so I benched him. I'm interested to know what you decided to train him? 

By the look of this pic though, I'll have to add Lilina to my team. Lugh is good I guess right now, but the way he is going, I definitely don't think he'll be capping magic and I need a strong magic user. Thanks for the insight!

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7 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Your units you're using are only getting 1 stat up during level ups. I have no idea what is going on, I've never ran into this in any other FE but my units I'm using aren't getting any stronger besides Roy (almost all his stats go up a level up) and it's really frustrating lol.

Oof, that's rough. Growths in FE6 are generally slightly lower than in the other GBA games, but (prepromotes aside) still add up to 260-280% for most units, give or take. You've definitely been unlucky there.

One thing you can do with Shanna is to accept that she won't be an endgame unit and just promote her early. Starting in chapter 9, there's a ton of axe-using enemies waiting for you, and a flyer with a sword rank is very, very helpful there. Even with her low strength, Shanna will do fairly well with an Iron Sword thanks to her doubling everything and the low-ish defense on enemy fighters.
The investment isn't too bad either - you get a second Elysian Whip in chapter 12 (and technically another one in ch.10 or 11, but you have to keep four green pegasus knights alive, which can be a huge pain in the butt).

19 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

I took your advice and started using Sue. Thing is, she is only level 1 and the way units grow in this game, who knows if she'll get stronger lol. She can't really do anything as of now, but I'm willing to invest in her. 

If she doesn't turn out well, just switch to Shin. ;): His stats are actually still a bit better than Sue's on normal difficulty (on hard, it's no competition because Shin gets bonus stats) - Sue's main advantage is that she gets to Killer Bows earlier, although her great speed also means that she has an easier time doubling with Steel Bows than Shin.

26 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Well, it's funny that you mention that promotion items aren't too abundant in FE6 because I'm on Chapter 8 as of now and haven't come across 1 single promotion item yet.

You might have missed a house in chapter 7, then.

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you get hard mode only after beating the game

1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

To condense it all in one: This is the hardest FE I've played, and I'm only on Normal mode (I didn't see an option for hard) and my OCD of growing units into stronger ones is biting me in the rear.

Fe6 is the hardest of GBA FE, and one of the hardest overall FE for reasons you know... if you're having a hard time with FE6 no one gonna call you noob, since IT IS hard. i actually have to praise you for not starting again to save all unit despite this is your first time with FE6.

also, the way the game calculate RNG is different and weird compared to later FE. which contribute more to: missing with high accuracy, low crit actually happening, and shitty lvl up.

1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

I'm interested to know what you decided to train him? 

what do you mean? theres no branching at all in FE6. so Lot will be Lot no matter what (axe user with mediocre to okay-ish stat)

1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

By the look of this pic though, I'll have to add Lilina to my team. Lugh is good I guess right now, but the way he is going, I definitely don't think he'll be capping magic and I need a strong magic user. Thanks for the insight!

i've played both normal and hard (that pic is from hard), and Lilina always have double magic than Lugh in mid to late game, but Lugh have better speed in beginning so easier to use for early game for him. both are fine in normal.

as for shanna, i bench her the second i get her sister which is way better in every aspect. (but you might want to look in recruitment page for that)

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For unpromoted charcaters in FE6 the rundown, going by both my own playthroughs and seeing a lot of discourse arround it, goes like this:

  1. Alan and Lance are easily some of the best characters in the game. Use them a lot and your life will be very easy in Normal Mode at least.
  2. Shanna has flier utility which is very good though if her performance midgame is lacking you might want to replace her with Thea when you recruit her.
  3. Chad, Astolfo and Cath are all Thieves and are here to provide Thief utility and not much else.
  4. Staff users all offer one thing, Elen has high Mag growth, Clarine has a horse and Saul starts off with a higher Staff rank, choose whichever one has what your prioritize the most.
  5. Rutger is another one of the best unpromoted units thanks to early access to the Swordmaster class and its +30 crit bonus, easily being the best boss-killing option, besides him you can also use Fir if you want a second mini-Rutger on your team.
  6. Dieck is a good combat unit though if you promote Rutger first his midgame performance will be significantly lacking until you get that second Hero Crest.
  7. Trec and Noah both are good Cavaliers though they're not as good as Alan and Lance and if you use them you'll likely have to wait a while until they can promote and become capable of keeping up with the latter two.
  8. Lugh, Lilina and Hugh are your best mage options, being able to hit Resistance is a pretty good niche, though you will probably only want to use one of them.
  9. Sue and Shin are your best choice for archers. Whichever one you pick won't make a giant difference, specially in Normal Mode.
  10. Larum and Elfin are refreshers, enough said.
  11. Miledy and Zeiss both have strong bases and are fliers, making them both great, Miledy also starts above Level 10 with access to an Elysian Whip the very next chapter after she is recruited, which is very good.

Unless im forgetting someone or something, everyone else not listed here is kind of middling at best.

Edited by Murozaki

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Well I've taken you guys' advice and am currently training these units: Roy, Lilina, Alan, Lance, Sue, Rutger, Dieck, Shanna and Clarine. I got really lucky with Sue and every one of her level ups were great, and now she is my most powerful unit. She's definitely saved my butt, lol. I'm planning on picking up Melady, Bartre and Gonzales in the coming chapters and I think that should about round it out. Thanks for all your help, friends!

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1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

Well I've taken you guys' advice and am currently training these units: Roy, Lilina, Alan, Lance, Sue, Rutger, Dieck, Shanna and Clarine. I got really lucky with Sue and every one of her level ups were great, and now she is my most powerful unit. She's definitely saved my butt, lol. I'm planning on picking up Melady, Bartre and Gonzales in the coming chapters and I think that should about round it out. Thanks for all your help, friends!

I would honestly recommend against Bartre and Gonzales, especially the latter.

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20 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

But, Berserker. Berserker is cool.

Being cool is meaningless when they have the accuracy of a Stormtrooper due to being axe-locked; after all, it doesn't matter if you can hit hard if you can't connect. Also, that means you have three units that need Hero Crests to promote. It doesn't help matters that Gonzales is practically unrescuable. 

Edited by Shadow Mir

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1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

But, Berserker. Berserker is cool.

unless you like to save state abuse for every fight (because of misses), then better put that Exp to someone else. hence why i use echidna since hero + good skill stat have way better chance using axe. using a berserker is like gambling unless theres a Sword berserker .

Edit: oh wait, this is normal mode we're talking about, maybe one berserker is fine

Edited by joevar

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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would honestly recommend against Bartre and Gonzales, especially the latter.

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Being cool is meaningless when they have the accuracy of a Stormtrooper due to being axe-locked; after all, it doesn't matter if you can hit hard if you can't connect. Also, that means you have three units that need Hero Crests to promote. It doesn't help matters that Gonzales is practically unrescuable. 

Ooooh boy, I cannot tell you how right you were about this. I took your advice but I decided to give Gonzales a try, and the guy couldn't hit a boulder right in front of him. I went 8 turns, 8 TURNS, without him hitting a single hit on a fighter. I don't even want to know how he fares against a sword user. His stats aren't even that bad (minus skill which might contribute to his accuracy) but damn is he unusable with that hit rate. That idea is benched. Perhaps he is better on hard mode since I read he gets stat bonuses there. 

But what about Bartre? I'm on the chapter he's recruited, and he comes with a brave axe and whopping 22 strength, which none of my units now are even thinking about nearing. I used him against the boss and while his hit rate is kind of low also, his power is good. 

 

6 hours ago, joevar said:

unless you like to save state abuse for every fight (because of misses), then better put that Exp to someone else. hence why i use echidna since hero + good skill stat have way better chance using axe. using a berserker is like gambling unless theres a Sword berserker .

Edit: oh wait, this is normal mode we're talking about, maybe one berserker is fine

Yes, it's normal mode. But this game is hard as it is. Look at my above post and see how that experiment of mine turned out... xD 

On 11/27/2020 at 3:17 PM, Murozaki said:

For unpromoted charcaters in FE6 the rundown, going by both my own playthroughs and seeing a lot of discourse arround it, goes like this:

  1. Alan and Lance are easily some of the best characters in the game. Use them a lot and your life will be very easy in Normal Mode at least.
  2. Shanna has flier utility which is very good though if her performance midgame is lacking you might want to replace her with Thea when you recruit her.
  3. Chad, Astolfo and Cath are all Thieves and are here to provide Thief utility and not much else.
  4. Staff users all offer one thing, Elen has high Mag growth, Clarine has a horse and Saul starts off with a higher Staff rank, choose whichever one has what your prioritize the most.
  5. Rutger is another one of the best unpromoted units thanks to early access to the Swordmaster class and its +30 crit bonus, easily being the best boss-killing option, besides him you can also use Fir if you want a second mini-Rutger on your team.
  6. Dieck is a good combat unit though if you promote Rutger first his midgame performance will be significantly lacking until you get that second Hero Crest.
  7. Trec and Noah both are good Cavaliers though they're not as good as Alan and Lance and if you use them you'll likely have to wait a while until they can promote and become capable of keeping up with the latter two.
  8. Lugh, Lilina and Hugh are your best mage options, being able to hit Resistance is a pretty good niche, though you will probably only want to use one of them.
  9. Sue and Shin are your best choice for archers. Whichever one you pick won't make a giant difference, specially in Normal Mode.
  10. Larum and Elfin are refreshers, enough said.
  11. Miledy and Zeiss both have strong bases and are fliers, making them both great, Miledy also starts above Level 10 with access to an Elysian Whip the very next chapter after she is recruited, which is very good.

Unless im forgetting someone or something, everyone else not listed here is kind of middling at best.

Who is Zeiss and when do you acquire him/her?

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11 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

But what about Bartre? I'm on the chapter he's recruited, and he comes with a brave axe and whopping 22 strength, which none of my units now are even thinking about nearing. I used him against the boss and while his hit rate is kind of low also, his power is good. 

IMO he's pretty good. Even though he mostly falls off, (particularly on Hard) 22 strength is here to stay and he could potentially OHKO wyverns even in endgame with a steel bow, at least on Normal. Unfortunately, D in bows isn't very good, but he's good short term and can work in a pinch in the long term and he does have quite a while to get that rank up.

13 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Who is Zeiss and when do you acquire him/her?

Wyvern rider in chapter 16; he's recruited by Milady.

14 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Perhaps he is better on hard mode since I read he gets stat bonuses there. 

Sort of. His high power is much more valuable, but his speed problems at base and hit problems are made worse, as well as his biggest competition being better.

Overall, for Gonzy: Promotion helps patch his problems due to +5 skill. What's more is that chapter 17 (Ilia) to the end is lance spam so the axe's hit rates are mitigated a lot; having WTA on wyvern lords is really nice. However, you get another berserker in chapter 15 who, (on normal) will be a fair bit less strong and is slower than a trained Gonzales. He is useable from the get-go, but won't stand out and is quite mediocre. Still, he isn't bad and can be an asset if you need another hard-hitter or way to deal with Wyverns.

Gonzales, once trained, has a very good chance to stand out once you deal with his poor start; Garret, the other Berserker, won't ever really stand out in a good or bad way. Regardless, you will have a Berserker who can do their job fairly well.

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21 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Ooooh boy, I cannot tell you how right you were about this. I took your advice but I decided to give Gonzales a try, and the guy couldn't hit a boulder right in front of him. I went 8 turns, 8 TURNS, without him hitting a single hit on a fighter. I don't even want to know how he fares against a sword user. His stats aren't even that bad (minus skill which might contribute to his accuracy) but damn is he unusable with that hit rate. That idea is benched. Perhaps he is better on hard mode since I read he gets stat bonuses there. 

But what about Bartre? I'm on the chapter he's recruited, and he comes with a brave axe and whopping 22 strength, which none of my units now are even thinking about nearing. I used him against the boss and while his hit rate is kind of low also, his power is good. 

Gonzo does get +5 Skl upon promotion and the endgame has a fair amount of lance users, which makes his combat quite monstrous - in the right situations. But getting there... well, you've experienced it. On HM, he gets a silly amount of bonus stats (+7 HP and +4 Str; 1-2 points everywhere else), which can make it worthwhile (or at least fun) to use him long-term; on NM, he's right there with all the other unpromoted axe bros in the "usable, but not really worth it" tier.

Bartre is quite decent, all things considered, but you'll really want to give him an Iron Bow as a more accurate option. ;): Getting to C bows for Killer Bows would be great, B bows for the Brave Bow is probably a bit far away. But even with Iron Bows, he can easily set up kills for your training prospects, and bonus damage against Wyverns is always welcome.
His obvious problem is his low Spd - the Brave Axe fixes that to some extent, but it also slows him down to 8 Speed. You'll have to be more and more careful that he won't get doubled.

 

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1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

Yes, it's normal mode. But this game is hard as it is. Look at my above post and see how that experiment of mine turned out... xD 

also are you by any chance, playing FE6 blind? (not reading tips, recruitment page, or anything)

no, im not judging... just curious is all

1 hour ago, sinfonic18 said:

But what about Bartre? I'm on the chapter he's recruited, and he comes with a brave axe and whopping 22 strength, which none of my units now are even thinking about nearing. I used him against the boss and while his hit rate is kind of low also, his power is good. 

i pick barte-elphin not echidna-lalum in my 1st playthru, but because i like to reunite family/lovers/friends in one army, not because he could become berserker or axe user. pick him imo if you dont want to spend eternity training gonzales in arena (training with actual enemy on field is just inviting more trouble to other units,)

Edited by joevar

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10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Ooooh boy, I cannot tell you how right you were about this. I took your advice but I decided to give Gonzales a try, and the guy couldn't hit a boulder right in front of him. I went 8 turns, 8 TURNS, without him hitting a single hit on a fighter. I don't even want to know how he fares against a sword user. His stats aren't even that bad (minus skill which might contribute to his accuracy) but damn is he unusable with that hit rate. That idea is benched. Perhaps he is better on hard mode since I read he gets stat bonuses there. 

Spoiler alert: Gonzales still sucks in hard mode. Sure, he gets boosted, but so do the enemies. That means he still can't hit the broad side of a barn.

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23 hours ago, Benice said:

IMO he's pretty good. Even though he mostly falls off, (particularly on Hard) 22 strength is here to stay and he could potentially OHKO wyverns even in endgame with a steel bow, at least on Normal. Unfortunately, D in bows isn't very good, but he's good short term and can work in a pinch in the long term and he does have quite a while to get that rank up.

Wyvern rider in chapter 16; he's recruited by Milady.

Sort of. His high power is much more valuable, but his speed problems at base and hit problems are made worse, as well as his biggest competition being better.

Overall, for Gonzy: Promotion helps patch his problems due to +5 skill. What's more is that chapter 17 (Ilia) to the end is lance spam so the axe's hit rates are mitigated a lot; having WTA on wyvern lords is really nice. However, you get another berserker in chapter 15 who, (on normal) will be a fair bit less strong and is slower than a trained Gonzales. He is useable from the get-go, but won't stand out and is quite mediocre. Still, he isn't bad and can be an asset if you need another hard-hitter or way to deal with Wyverns.

Gonzales, once trained, has a very good chance to stand out once you deal with his poor start; Garret, the other Berserker, won't ever really stand out in a good or bad way. Regardless, you will have a Berserker who can do their job fairly well.

This is what I was figuring and wanting by using him. But with the luck I was having, he wasn't even worth trying to baby until he got up to a respectable level and promoted. However now that you've said this once I play again on hard mode I am going to try harder to train him since he gets better skill and will hit more. I won't have bartre next for a an axe user, so it's a good tradeoff. 

If it's a pre-promoted berserker than I don't really have any interest in him anyway, I'm sure there is use for that one but if he doesn't absolutely stand out I don't see the use for him.

23 hours ago, ping said:

Gonzo does get +5 Skl upon promotion and the endgame has a fair amount of lance users, which makes his combat quite monstrous - in the right situations. But getting there... well, you've experienced it. On HM, he gets a silly amount of bonus stats (+7 HP and +4 Str; 1-2 points everywhere else), which can make it worthwhile (or at least fun) to use him long-term; on NM, he's right there with all the other unpromoted axe bros in the "usable, but not really worth it" tier.

Bartre is quite decent, all things considered, but you'll really want to give him an Iron Bow as a more accurate option. ;): Getting to C bows for Killer Bows would be great, B bows for the Brave Bow is probably a bit far away. But even with Iron Bows, he can easily set up kills for your training prospects, and bonus damage against Wyverns is always welcome.
His obvious problem is his low Spd - the Brave Axe fixes that to some extent, but it also slows him down to 8 Speed. You'll have to be more and more careful that he won't get doubled.

 

I gave him a Short Bow instead and he is doing great with it. He can one shot wyvern riders and crits a lot with it. I'm using him now and he's pretty much made Sue obsolete for me (right now). I've noticed his low Speed, he doesn't double often. But so far I don't see the problem with it, since he doesn't take that much damage and he is pretty bulky, I'll see how he fares though in the coming chapters. 

22 hours ago, joevar said:

also are you by any chance, playing FE6 blind? (not reading tips, recruitment page, or anything)

no, im not judging... just curious is all

i pick barte-elphin not echidna-lalum in my 1st playthru, but because i like to reunite family/lovers/friends in one army, not because he could become berserker or axe user. pick him imo if you dont want to spend eternity training gonzales in arena (training with actual enemy on field is just inviting more trouble to other units,)

Yup, I am actually. Only tips I've read is the ones you guys have given me on this page. I'm pretty new to FE as a whole to be honest, not just this one. I started back in 2015 with Fates: Conquest because Nintendo at the time was really hyping it up and I was wanting to try new games as the time, so I gave it a chance. At first I didn't get it, I was playing on casual normal mode, since the permanent death feature kind of scared me lol. I went through the entire game with unpromoted units with iron weapons because I had no clue about the class system and seals and whatnot. The game was extremely hard for me as a result, haha. After beating it I decided to put it down and come back to it in a year or so, and as I started researching what FE is and how it works, I started getting more and more into it. I eventually learned some about it like skills, and other stuff to a degree. After buying and finishing all three routes of Fates with different teams I set for the game I moved on to Awakening and played that to no end on all difficulties. And then Three Houses comes out and that becomes my most played FE with 400 hours clocked and like 7 playthroughs lol. And now I'm here, playing through all the older games because FE has become my favorite franchise. So far I've played FE7 and FE8 in the pre 3DS era and loved them both. 

Okay, story time is over, sorry about that! I can say from personal experience training units on the field makes the game that much harder...

13 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Spoiler alert: Gonzales still sucks in hard mode. Sure, he gets boosted, but so do the enemies. That means he still can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I mean... This logic isn't wrong. Good point. 

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7 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

once I play again on hard mode I am going to try harder to train him since he gets better skill and will hit more.

Ehhhh...His hit rates aren't that much better; he's mostly better because he's a lot easier to early promote due to his colossal strength. In Normal Mode, Early promotion will likely have him be mediocre for the lategame, whereas in Hard, he should be good to go, sort of. He'll at least be useful in ch. 21, where there are lots of mountains.

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8 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Yup, I am actually. Only tips I've read is the ones you guys have given me on this page.

One thing that I recommend spoiling yourself about: Gaiden requirements. They're all "Keep certain characters alive and beat the chapter in X turns or less" - usually not too difficult to accomplish, with chapter 14x probably being the toughest, but easy to miss if you don't know they're there.

Thing is, you need to visit all gaidens to play beyond chapter 22. If you miss one (or break one of the legendary weapons that you find there), everyone just goes, "Welp, guess the crucial plot point wasn't so crucial after all, let's ignore it, GGWP".

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10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

If it's a pre-promoted berserker than I don't really have any interest in him anyway, I'm sure there is use for that one but if he doesn't absolutely stand out I don't see the use for him.

Geese is also an option, if you really want an unpromoted berserker. He's tolerable in Normal MOde and IIRC he starts with a B in axes, which is great.

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It depends on how hard you want the game to be, I'll give the units to make the game easy:


Dieck: his con and access to Hand Axes as a Hero is unbeatable, possibly the best wielder of Durandal because of his high con.

Oujay: his access to Hand Axes as a Hero, better growths than Echidna, and being a ground unit (no Horseslayer effectiveness) make him a winner IMO.

Rutger and Fir can't attack 1-2 or use axes like Oujay can.

Rutger and Fir: they're really good but not as good as Dieck and Oujay because of their lower HP, Str, Def, and luck IMO. Rutger has low luck, Fir has low Str, Def, and Con, but high Crit as a Swordmaster which means little IMO.

Lance: people have already mentioned he's good.

Alen: people have already mentioned he's good.

Melady and Zeiss: possibly the best fliers in the game.

Gonzales: best axe user IMO with solid growths and base stats.

Yoder: uses magic and so OP FE6 tomes, has good stats and already S at Staves the best Light magic user IMO, basically the only one who can get to S rank in light, and so use Aureola, quickly and can use Divine and Purge from the start, (since in FE6 a character can have two S ranks, he can be S at Light and Staves.)

If you want to use Yoder save some stat boosting items since he can't level up.

Niime: A really good druid with great base stats and, again, OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Lugh: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Raigh: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Lillina: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Sue and Shin: Some of the best bow users IMO because of joining early, good growths which Igrene doesn't have, good bases, access to swords upon promotion, and good movement.

Perceval: One of the best paladins, useful mid and late game

Saul and/or Clarine: best healers IMO swap them to heal for the whole game or just use one if you like. Just don't use Elen, unfortunately her growths and bases are horrible.

Generally IMO the pegasus knights because of low con, fighters because of low axe hit in FE6, and knights because low movement, spd, skl, and res are useless. The only use Archers have is for fliers, specifically Wyvern Riders/Lords but since Sue and Shin get swords upon promotion and have higher movement and con the Archer/Sniper class.

You can give EXP to the bad classes I've mentioned if you want to, but they just don't contribute much when you have mages (that have OP FE6 tomes) and Nomads (access to swords.)

This is not even counting the supports which can make these characters even better.

There might be more but this is all I can think of for now.
 

|THE END|

Edited by Fates-Blade

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On 11/30/2020 at 3:12 PM, sinfonic18 said:

I'm pretty new to FE as a whole to be honest, not just this one.

umm....

On 11/30/2020 at 3:12 PM, sinfonic18 said:

FE with 400 hours clocked and like 7 playthroughs lol

i would say that you're far from new, but already a hardcore-fan.

but since you like the idea of multiple playthru, i would suggest, holding off on walkthru / guide. and save that for Hard mode after you beat it once. otherwise you will miss quite a bit, since FE6 have design flaw that you cant solve without extra hint or guide

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On 11/30/2020 at 11:11 AM, Benice said:

Ehhhh...His hit rates aren't that much better; he's mostly better because he's a lot easier to early promote due to his colossal strength. In Normal Mode, Early promotion will likely have him be mediocre for the lategame, whereas in Hard, he should be good to go, sort of. He'll at least be useful in ch. 21, where there are lots of mountains.

I figured they wouldn't be much better if not worse in Hard mode but, his other stats get a buff in that difficulty so I figure it might make investing in him more worthwhile. Another reason I value the Berserk class is because they can move over mountains and water which only flying units can do, so it's great to have an infantry unit be able to do that.

On 11/30/2020 at 12:03 PM, ping said:

One thing that I recommend spoiling yourself about: Gaiden requirements. They're all "Keep certain characters alive and beat the chapter in X turns or less" - usually not too difficult to accomplish, with chapter 14x probably being the toughest, but easy to miss if you don't know they're there.

Thing is, you need to visit all gaidens to play beyond chapter 22. If you miss one (or break one of the legendary weapons that you find there), everyone just goes, "Welp, guess the crucial plot point wasn't so crucial after all, let's ignore it, GGWP".

About this... I took your advice and researched about these chapters with those requirements and so far I've done good with them except the chapter where you have to keep douglas alive. It was either him or the chest. RIP, guess I'm not getting beyond the 22nd chapter this playthrough.

On 11/30/2020 at 1:32 PM, Benice said:

Geese is also an option, if you really want an unpromoted berserker. He's tolerable in Normal MOde and IIRC he starts with a B in axes, which is great.

I forgot about this guy. He seems to hit a lot better but not as hard. I didn't use him, but perhaps I will consider him next time. 

On 12/1/2020 at 12:12 AM, Fates-Blade said:

It depends on how hard you want the game to be, I'll give the units to make the game easy:


Dieck: his con and access to Hand Axes as a Hero is unbeatable, possibly the best wielder of Durandal because of his high con.

Oujay: his access to Hand Axes as a Hero, better growths than Echidna, and being a ground unit (no Horseslayer effectiveness) make him a winner IMO.

Rutger and Fir can't attack 1-2 or use axes like Oujay can.

Rutger and Fir: they're really good but not as good as Dieck and Oujay because of their lower HP, Str, Def, and luck IMO. Rutger has low luck, Fir has low Str, Def, and Con, but high Crit as a Swordmaster which means little IMO.

Lance: people have already mentioned he's good.

Alen: people have already mentioned he's good.

Melady and Zeiss: possibly the best fliers in the game.

Gonzales: best axe user IMO with solid growths and base stats.

Yoder: uses magic and so OP FE6 tomes, has good stats and already S at Staves the best Light magic user IMO, basically the only one who can get to S rank in light, and so use Aureola, quickly and can use Divine and Purge from the start, (since in FE6 a character can have two S ranks, he can be S at Light and Staves.)

If you want to use Yoder save some stat boosting items since he can't level up.

Niime: A really good druid with great base stats and, again, OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Lugh: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Raigh: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Lillina: A mage and so OP FE6 tomes, nuff said.

Sue and Shin: Some of the best bow users IMO because of joining early, good growths which Igrene doesn't have, good bases, access to swords upon promotion, and good movement.

Perceval: One of the best paladins, useful mid and late game

Saul and/or Clarine: best healers IMO swap them to heal for the whole game or just use one if you like. Just don't use Elen, unfortunately her growths and bases are horrible.

Generally IMO the pegasus knights because of low con, fighters because of low axe hit in FE6, and knights because low movement, spd, skl, and res are useless. The only use Archers have is for fliers, specifically Wyvern Riders/Lords but since Sue and Shin get swords upon promotion and have higher movement and con the Archer/Sniper class.

You can give EXP to the bad classes I've mentioned if you want to, but they just don't contribute much when you have mages (that have OP FE6 tomes) and Nomads (access to swords.)

This is not even counting the supports which can make these characters even better.

There might be more but this is all I can think of for now.
 

|THE END|

I'm using pretty much everyone here minus Lugh & Raigh, Gonzales, and Rutger. Some of them are filler units, but they help a lot. 

My Melady is probably my best unit and is near unstoppable. She's already capped out her Str, Skill, Spd and HP at level 9 Wyvern Lord and her growths are still going good. I definitely got lucky with her. 

14 hours ago, joevar said:

umm....

i would say that you're far from new, but already a hardcore-fan.

but since you like the idea of multiple playthru, i would suggest, holding off on walkthru / guide. and save that for Hard mode after you beat it once. otherwise you will miss quite a bit, since FE6 have design flaw that you cant solve without extra hint or guide

Well... I meant newish in terms of years, not really playtime or game-wise. But yeah, I've become a huge fan of FE in the past 2 years or so and it's all I've played in the past couple months lol. 

Well that is already going to happen because I have to play through again if I want to see the full story, for reasons I stated above. A lot of FEs are like that, but it's not to the degree of FE6.

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