What are the best units to train in The Binding Blade?

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:49 AM, Benice said:

This is completely untrue. 10/1 Zeiss has 15* speed, good enough to double

• Most mages in 16x
• All Cavaliers in 16x
• Knights (Wow, what an amazing achievement.)
• All archers in 16x
• One of the sages in 16x
• Almost all cavaliers in 17I-A cavalier reinforcement has a chance to get 12 AS
• All archers in 17I
• All peg knights in 17I
• Both bishops in 17I
• All peg knights in 18I
• All wyvern riders in 18I
• All priests in 18I

And the list goes on from there. Things are tougher for him in Sacae, but he'll eventually be doubling and he can already double a scant few. Once he promotes, he'll also have swords for an accurate option against nomads. And even when he's not doubling, he's dealing a lot of damage.

How many of those are NOT weighed down?

On 12/8/2020 at 1:49 AM, Benice said:

It's niche but helpful. 10/1 Gonzales can hold his own very well against the wyverns in ch. 21, which is something not a lot of units can say regardless of level. He doubles a good portion of them, will always have at least 30% chance of OHKO'ing unpromoted ones, (A killer axe can make this much, much higher) and will be really, really hard to hit-by my calculations, 10-12% displayed hit. (Wyvern lords w/105 to 103 hit, -40 for the peaks, -15 for WTA and -38 for Gonzales' avoid, for a total of 105-93)

Gonzales is not the only one who can do this, (Geese and Garret could as well) but any of them will wreak havoc if given the chance.

One chapter of glory does not redeem a scrub. And it most definitely does not make up for being a third-rate foot axe. I may as well try to hit with Stone Edge or Focus Blast in Pokemon, as I have better odds with those. Or even this unfair son of a gun, as this sounds more fun than trying to raise Gonzales:

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Benice]

34 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

How many of those are NOT weighed down?

Why does it matter if he doubles all of them with 2-3 AS to spare? In ch. 17, there's one who he won't double due to equipment. In the next, javelins will take a 10/1 Zeiss out of doubling range, but they come equipped with steel lances, which are still fair game for Zeiss to double. Naturally as time goes on while he's 10/1, he'll double less, but he should level enough to stay about on top of the curve, and he is a pretty good use of a speedwing if you have to use it because he's speed cursed.

34 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

One chapter of glory does not redeem a scrub. And it most definitely does not make up for being a third-rate foot axe.

I already proved that he doesn't simply get one chapter.

Spoiler

To illustrate above rant, I will use Gonzales, one of the least accurate units in the game. At 10/10, (A route Gonzales) he'll have exactly 15 skill and eleven luck, or +41 hit. Let's arbitrarily take Ilia 17, because he'd feasibly have about 20 total levels by then if he's used. Heck, at 10/1 he'll only be about 4 points less accurate, so he doesn't even have to be trained dilligently.

  Hide contents

 

In this particular map there are 12 cavaliers, 11 of which Gonzales will have WTA against and one of which who has an axereaver.

Against the non-axereaver ones, Gonzales will have between 8-11 avoid against him if you factor in the weapon triangle. They have 8-9 AS, so he easily doubles. He'll have 26 strength as well, meaning 34x2 attack with an iron axe. They have 38-42 HP and 9-10 defense, so he ORKO's comfortably with an iron axe. And he will do so with 95 hit at the very lowest.

 

Mages (A whole whopping four of them) in this chapter have 12-10 AS, meaning they're also doubled. They'll be able to survive up to 35 attack, but most won't. They have 26-28 avoid, plus one with 28-31. With an iron axe, (which will almost always OHKO) Gonzales will have 80-75 to hit. (87-92 true hit.) Respectable but not great.

He'll have 100 hit against the two knights, 77-85 against the paladins, 99 against the pegasus riders, (And there are a lot) about 76 on the archers, etc. The only enemies where he'll be truly shaky is the whole two bishops, against whom he'll have 70 hit.

If you choose to sit back and see all of the reinforcements, there'll be 60 enemies, not including the boss, who he also has the chance to have WTA against. He'll have WTD against 10 of them, (9 cavalier reinforcements with steel swords, Gonzales will have 59-61 hit on them, plus the one axereaver) No WT involvement against 18 of them, (76-81 hit) and WTA on the remaining 32 enemies-Meaning that against against about 55% of the enemies, he'll have 121 hit(Before avoid comes into play, but he'll be in the high nineties against all of them.)

 

How about Ilia 18 with a Gonzales of the same level? (Bolded enemies mean that Gonzales ORKO's with an iron axe without needing two lucky hits.)

  Hide contents

50 total enemies

10 against whom Gonzales will have WTD

(Gonzy won't look good against these guys-50~ hit)

17 with no weapon triangle involvement

(75-80 hit)

23 enemies with WTA

(83 at the very lowest, he'll have 95+ against the vast majority)

 

The moment he promotes, he will be ORKO'ing very well. I will not deny his bad start, but he is workable and will become a powerhouse. If the player chooses to invest into using him, he will succeed. It is ultimately the player's choice about it. A secret book can be given to him to help bring his hit rates higher, as could a goddess icon. They could also get sold for gold if the player would prefer boots. And, as I stated above, an A route Gonzales can be used if needed in chapter 21. B route Gonzales also works, actually! Not as well as he won't be doubling any of them, but still functional in a pinch.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Benice

[sinfonic18]

17 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

 

Wallace, Lyn, Eliwood, Louise, Rath, Renault, Dart, Jaffar...

I don't know what your experience with the game was, but I've noticed that nobody I've met absolutely loved FE6 the first time they played it. After a replay or two, the game really starts to grow on you. It's the opposite with FE7 too, at least with me. The more I play FE7, the less I enjoy it.

Yeah, that map is pretty hard, especially if you don't have aircalibur or a trained bow user to fight the wyvern lords. Those guys can wreck your units up with their massive attack, high durability, and ok speed.

Although it does give infinite boots.

 

I agree with that list in it's entirety EXCEPT Lyn and Dart. Those turned out to be my best units along with hector in FE7. 

My experience with the game was pretty semi-blind. I loved it from the start to the end, even though I didn't really know much going into it. It's difficulty is really invigorating. This might be a unpopular opinion here and I don't want to anger anyone, but I actually love FE7 and 8 just as much as FE6. I think all of them have their merits and I thoroughly enjoyed all entries from start to finish. Games I could play over and over again and not get bored! 

How I got through the entire map on Hard mode with losing the least amount units as possible was warping Gonzales into the mountains to the east and leaving him there with like, 4 killer axes. He absolutely man-handled the entire half of that map and didn't get hit once. The trouble came from the western side of the map where my mounted units were having trouble taking down all the other paladins and wyverns. 

23 hours ago, joevar said:

thats my favorite chapter actually. you really feel like fighting an all out war not small skirmish anymore, and Bern really look backed into a corner they unleash so many troops and the ambush spawn feels more justified since they appear at far end of the map (except Gale. but his troop didnt do anything anyway), and you get to deploy so many char at once

Bern calling for reinforcement from all their stationed troop everywhere is logical here since if they lose here, the war is pretty much over for them

True, it definitely feels like a battlefield compared to most FE chapters and it certainly test your mettle! 

Speaking of that chapter in particular, I came across a bit of technical difficulty tonight. So I finished Chapter 22 and was excited to see the chapters afterward and finally beat the game in it's entire state. The ending comes up instead of a new chapter. 

I'm already freaking out at what went wrong. "I got all the gaiden chapters! How could this possibly be!! I have all the sacred weapons in my inventory! Durandal... Maltet... Armads... Forblaze.. Aureola... Apocalypse... Mul--- Wait??! Where's Mulagir!? Oooh no, oh nooo..." 'Tis is when I came to the swift realization that back in Chapter 21, you know, that chapter with all the freaking wyverns and paladins? Yeah that one. Remember Yoder? HE HAD the Mulagir. Want to know what happened to Yoder on this adventure?


He DIED.

 

HE FREAKING DIED!!

 

WITH MULAGIR IN HIS INVENTORY!

 

I forgot to take it away from him. Little did I know using him as a sacrificial lamb was putting in place my own demise... Yoder certainly got his revenge. You know what that means?

 

Time for another, yet another!, playthrough... This will become my most played FE in terms of hours at this point! xDDD 

Sorry about being so dramatic about it. But I really wanted people to know of the hysteria I am facing right now. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

How many of those are NOT weighed down? 

Does it matter?

23 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Sorry about being so dramatic about it. But I really wanted people to know of the hysteria I am facing right now. 

No problem man, I get ya. That is legitimately quite awful. That's what happens when you let Yoder die though. Old man commands more respect than that, you know.

Edited December 11, 2020 by AnonymousSpeed

[Benice]

25 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Sorry about being so dramatic about it. But I really wanted people to know of the hysteria I am facing right now. 

OOOF

Hey, this time you can check out Sacae, I guess. If you really feel like it. Any other unit changes that you plan to make? If you're looking for a bulky mage, Raigh, (thanks to Nosferatu barely weighing him down upon promotion) or Hugh are your best bets. Hugh isn't phenomenal in this way, but he'll do okay.

[joevar]

42 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Want to know what happened to Yoder on this adventure?

He DIED.

 

HE FREAKING DIED!!

 

WITH MULAGIR IN HIS INVENTORY!

 

I forgot to take it away from him. Little did I know using him as a sacrificial lamb was putting in place my own demise... Yoder certainly got his revenge. You know what that means?

 

Time for another, yet another!, playthrough... This will become my most played FE in terms of hours at this point! xDDD 

Sorry about being so dramatic about it. But I really wanted people to know of the hysteria I am facing right now. 

sorry, i actually laugh. even before you said Yoder. because you can still miss true ending if one of the Divine weapon spent/broken or in your case, lost.

i just let Yoder accompany merlinus back in the shop and occasionally use physic/fortify from afar

but its okay, the discussion in this thread still going as far as i can see. we can still accompany you thru this

----

im supporting @Benice idea, why not try something new and take it slow this time and use another unit that you want but ultimately didnt use. altho using same one is good too i guess, since bad unit in FE6 is on entire another level compared to other FE

Edited December 11, 2020 by joevar

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, Benice said:

I already proved that he doesn't simply get one chapter.

  Reveal hidden contents

To illustrate above rant, I will use Gonzales, one of the least accurate units in the game. At 10/10, (A route Gonzales) he'll have exactly 15 skill and eleven luck, or +41 hit. Let's arbitrarily take Ilia 17, because he'd feasibly have about 20 total levels by then if he's used. Heck, at 10/1 he'll only be about 4 points less accurate, so he doesn't even have to be trained dilligently.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In this particular map there are 12 cavaliers, 11 of which Gonzales will have WTA against and one of which who has an axereaver.

Against the non-axereaver ones, Gonzales will have between 8-11 avoid against him if you factor in the weapon triangle. They have 8-9 AS, so he easily doubles. He'll have 26 strength as well, meaning 34x2 attack with an iron axe. They have 38-42 HP and 9-10 defense, so he ORKO's comfortably with an iron axe. And he will do so with 95 hit at the very lowest.

 

Mages (A whole whopping four of them) in this chapter have 12-10 AS, meaning they're also doubled. They'll be able to survive up to 35 attack, but most won't. They have 26-28 avoid, plus one with 28-31. With an iron axe, (which will almost always OHKO) Gonzales will have 80-75 to hit. (87-92 true hit.) Respectable but not great.

He'll have 100 hit against the two knights, 77-85 against the paladins, 99 against the pegasus riders, (And there are a lot) about 76 on the archers, etc. The only enemies where he'll be truly shaky is the whole two bishops, against whom he'll have 70 hit.

If you choose to sit back and see all of the reinforcements, there'll be 60 enemies, not including the boss, who he also has the chance to have WTA against. He'll have WTD against 10 of them, (9 cavalier reinforcements with steel swords, Gonzales will have 59-61 hit on them, plus the one axereaver) No WT involvement against 18 of them, (76-81 hit) and WTA on the remaining 32 enemies-Meaning that against against about 55% of the enemies, he'll have 121 hit(Before avoid comes into play, but he'll be in the high nineties against all of them.)

 

How about Ilia 18 with a Gonzales of the same level? (Bolded enemies mean that Gonzales ORKO's with an iron axe without needing two lucky hits.)

  Reveal hidden contents

50 total enemies

10 against whom Gonzales will have WTD

(Gonzy won't look good against these guys-50~ hit)

17 with no weapon triangle involvement

(75-80 hit)

23 enemies with WTA

(83 at the very lowest, he'll have 95+ against the vast majority)

 

The moment he promotes, he will be ORKO'ing very well. I will not deny his bad start, but he is workable and will become a powerhouse. If the player chooses to invest into using him, he will succeed. It is ultimately the player's choice about it. A secret book can be given to him to help bring his hit rates higher, as could a goddess icon. They could also get sold for gold if the player would prefer boots. And, as I stated above, an A route Gonzales can be used if needed in chapter 21. B route Gonzales also works, actually! Not as well as he won't be doubling any of them, but still functional in a pinch.

Did the fact that Hero Crests are contested slip your mind? Because even putting aside Rutger, I'd have better units in mind for them. I'm not saying he's irredeemable, only that he's not worth it unless you're okay with gambling on every attack, which I am not. Low skill and axelock is a match made in Hell, to be certain. Also, Secret Books won't help, as his hit problems are that profound (and there's the fact that there's only two in the game anyway, with one of those being route exclusive). Long story short, I have to jump through a shitload of mental hoops to justify the use of an inaccurate axe user on the team when he has little going for him besides raw power, which isn't even that valuable because it's backed by accuracy that is so awful, stormtroopers would point and laugh at him (and considering how much THEY miss, that's saying something). 

[Hello72207]

4 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

I agree with that list in it's entirety EXCEPT Lyn and Dart. Those turned out to be my best units along with hector in FE7. 

Thing with Lyn is that she has no 1-2 range in a game where having it can make or break a unit, and Dart comes with poor bases and an effective 25k price tag.

3 hours ago, Benice said:

If you're looking for a bulky mage, Raigh, (thanks to Nosferatu barely weighing him down upon promotion) or Hugh are your best bets. Hugh isn't phenomenal in this way, but he'll do okay.

Raigh's durability mostly comes from easy nostank, which does have some drawbacks (biggest being the price tag of doing something like that) but Hugh has really good bulk for a mage. Instapromoted, he has 30 hp and 11 defense. FYI, Lilina hits 30 hp at 20/7 and never gets 11 defense, and Lugh gets 30 hp at 20/2, and just barely misses 11 defense. Hugh also doesn't need the babying that Lilina and Lugh do, and has pretty good stats all-around. It's not hard to get him to level 20 either in 16 or halfway through 16x, (which is a lot kinder of a chapter to him then it is to Zeiss) and these five levels, along with promotion, give you a sage with 34 hp, 18-19 magic, 14-15 skill, 15 speed, 11 luck, 12 defense, and 12 res. These are very good stats for a unit that just barely joined, and his growths are decent enough that he will keep up with the rest of your army. On promo, he also gets insta aircalibur, which is pretty good in Ilia. With a speedwing, pretty much everything but the fastest nomad troopers won't double him, and with his decent durability and good 1-2 range, he can actually be pretty good in Sacae. 

Raigh does have easy nostank, but isn't actually tanky without it. he has a 55% hp growth, and a 15% defense growth. Along with his poor bases in those two areas, he's not getting very tanky. Combine that with nosferatu being expensive, and there's two problems. Raigh is pretty good when used, but his bases give him some durability and combat issues (8 AS is struggling to double at this point in the game). Although Raigh does get really good when invested in, both units are with their faults.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Did the fact that Hero Crests are contested slip your mind? Because even putting aside Rutger

The only other hero crest users I can think of using at this point in the game is either Fir, if you took the time to train her, or Dieck, if he managed to get enough speed levels to still be relevant.

[Whitfield1999]

On 11/28/2020 at 3:39 PM, sinfonic18 said:

Well I've taken you guys' advice and am currently training these units: Roy, Lilina, Alan, Lance, Sue, Rutger, Dieck, Shanna and Clarine. I got really lucky with Sue and every one of her level ups were great, and now she is my most powerful unit. She's definitely saved my butt, lol. I'm planning on picking up Melady, Bartre and Gonzales in the coming chapters and I think that should about round it out. Thanks for all your help, friends!

My advice is to not think about training units. But using units in areas where they are strong, and have them grow naturally. EXP in old fire emblem isn't a means to an end in older games like it is in the more RPG focused games. It's more meant for allowing units to not fall behind the newer units when you get them. Don't feel bad ditching units once they fall off/aren't useful anymore and don't focus on growing units and I think you will have a less stressful time with the game. Hope this helps!

[joevar]

4 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

FYI, Lilina hits 30 hp at 20/7 and never gets 11 defense, and Lugh gets 30 hp at 20/2, and just barely misses 11 defense. Hugh also doesn't need the babying that Lilina and Lugh do, and has pretty good stats all-around. It's not hard to get him to level 20 either in 16 or halfway through 16x, (which is a lot kinder of a chapter to him then it is to Zeiss) and these five levels, along with promotion, give you a sage with 34 hp, 18-19 magic, 14-15 skill, 15 speed, 11 luck, 12 defense, and 12 res. These are very good stats for a unit that just barely joined, and his growths are decent enough that he will keep up with the rest of your army. On promo, he also gets insta aircalibur, which is pretty good in Ilia. With a speedwing, pretty much everything but the fastest nomad troopers won't double him, and with his decent durability and good 1-2 range, he can actually be pretty good in Sacae. 

Hugh start with high lvl, law dictate that higher lvl join-er have more stable base stat. while 2 other basically same situation (barring availability) so, solid choice if you want to train someone. altho im sure majority of people already levling Lilina or Lugh far enough to not bother training another

BUT MAAARSSS, why no one ever put "luck" into this stat conversation? Lilina have reliable luck stat, which increase hit rate (negating her low skill) and evasion rate (tradeoff for low Def) combined with her support with roy is so fast, and roy is insta-deploy anyway so she 100% will get bonus stat unless you're like me who put her on the frontline everytime theres forest/fort/etc etc tome are very light anyway, never get weighed down by it

assuming higher Def is better survival is wise, but not get hit is better for mages, and even other class wont survive if ganged by relying only on def

hugh will be way better if only he start pre-promoted (with potential higher rank for stave since the start), since he didnt get HM bonus anyway

Edited December 11, 2020 by joevar

[Benice]

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Did the fact that Hero Crests are contested slip your mind? Because even putting aside Rutger, I'd have better units in mind for them.

Such as...?

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, Secret Books won't help

If we add the +4 hit to the base of the iron axe, his base chance of hitting (excluding everything but the weapon's chance to hit and the secret book) goes from true hit of 75 to true hit of 81.

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Long story short, I have to jump through a shitload of mental hoops to justify the use of an inaccurate axe user on the team when he has little going for him besides raw power, which isn't even that valuable because it's backed by accuracy that is so awful, stormtroopers would point and laugh at him

Numbers time!

Using A route Gonzales because I'm lazy and don't wanna deal with instapromo bonuses too much, (Promotion adding +10 hit)

11A which is the first full chapter Gonzales in avaliable: (Hit is displayed, not true hit unless otherwise stated)

Spoiler

12 fighters

At base level, he'll double up to six of them but will most likely double around three or four. If he's leveled up once, he'll double all of them.

The median is 16 avoid, which can go up to 18 and down to 14; Gonzales will have 67 hit. That's not great, but not awful. He also ORKO's with an iron axe if he doubles. The player already has the secret book, so if that's given, he goes up to 71.

Against the archers, (4), he'll have about 66 hit with the secret book and 62 without; not so good.

 

There are also a metric ton of Brigands, who basically have the same stats as the fighters from earlier.

He makes mincemeat of Tate's unit, but it's probably best not to attack them.

On turn 11, a truckload of cavaliers will arrive; Gonzales will have about 70~ hit on them.

 

Chapter 12:

A lot more fighters, (17+) who have less avoid than the previous ones; Gonzales will have about 68 hit. More of the same as last chapter, pretty much.

 12x:

A lot of easy pickings for Gonzy: 70~ hit on 14/25 enemies here.

13:

Fifteen cavaliers right away; He'll have roughly 75~ hit on nine of them, with the other ones having WTA against him.

A lot of dragon riders, also easy pickings. 78~ hit on them. Cavalier reinforcements are more into the lower 70's.

So, even without the secret book, if we look at True Hit, Gonzales will have about 70 on the dodgier enemies without WTD. Give him a secret book, and that goes up to 75-76/ And then, once he promotes, 87% to hit those enemies.

8 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Raigh's durability mostly comes from easy nostank, which does have some drawbacks (biggest being the price tag of doing something like that) but Hugh has really good bulk for a mage.

Yup. Still, Nostanking is really viable, because he won't be getting OHKO'd, he's quick enough not to get doubled by much, (Nomadic troopers might towards the end of Sacae)  and enemies don't know what a resistance is. Raigh gets a massive +$ to magic upon promotion too, so at the very least, (12/1) he'll be dishing out about 21 damage a pop; about as much as he'll take from an enemy. Nosferatu is buyable, and having two-three should be enough to Nosferatank quite a lot since Raigh won't double much.

Comparatively, Hugh is able to facetank a little more but can't take as much as Raigh can, with the exception that he's not using Nosferatu. Of the anima users, hee's the sturdiest by quite a bit, and giving him a dracoshield can improve his defenses to be quite respectable. Notably, Hugh instapromoted (15/1) can survive a shot from Ch. 21's wyvern lords. I think that the biggest problem with Hugh is his small +1 to speed upon promotion; he can't instapromote and double consistently out of the gate. Still, his solid speed growth should keep him fine and he will accelerate enough to double.

I personally feel that Raigh>Hugh, but also that Hugh is a little underrated.

[sinfonic18]

17 hours ago, Whitfield1999 said:

My advice is to not think about training units. But using units in areas where they are strong, and have them grow naturally. EXP in old fire emblem isn't a means to an end in older games like it is in the more RPG focused games. It's more meant for allowing units to not fall behind the newer units when you get them. Don't feel bad ditching units once they fall off/aren't useful anymore and don't focus on growing units and I think you will have a less stressful time with the game. Hope this helps!

Thanks friend. I've found that out in my 2 playthroughs of FE6 the hard way lol. 

19 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Thing with Lyn is that she has no 1-2 range in a game where having it can make or break a unit, and Dart comes with poor bases and an effective 25k price tag.

Eh, that's not a bad point. I mean granted, that problem is solved upon promotion, but that takes forever to get. 

23 hours ago, joevar said:

sorry, i actually laugh. even before you said Yoder. because you can still miss true ending if one of the Divine weapon spent/broken or in your case, lost.

i just let Yoder accompany merlinus back in the shop and occasionally use physic/fortify from afar

but its okay, the discussion in this thread still going as far as i can see. we can still accompany you thru this

----

im supporting @Benice idea, why not try something new and take it slow this time and use another unit that you want but ultimately didnt use. altho using same one is good too i guess, since bad unit in FE6 is on entire another level compared to other FE

Well my intention was for you guys to laugh at my pain, lol, so I'm glad I could accomplish that. xD Honestly, as bad of an idea as it may be, I really am trying to give Lot a chance this time. Like not just for the early chapters, like full on promotion/endgame stuff. I'm also thinking of stacking my team with mages, like Benice said my team will probably consist of all 3, Lilina, Lugh and Raigh. (Maybe Hugh, but he joins kinda late. Getting promotion items won't be that big of deal either for them since they join later.) But like you said, using the same unit isn't bad because FE6 is unforgiving and the pool of mostly, well, trash units is more than the viable units lol. Doesn't help that the leader that is required to be deployed every chapter is completely useless the whole game until he gets promoted 3 chapters before the final one. 😕 

As you said, this post is alive and well, I don't think it'll be stopping anytime soon. xP 

23 hours ago, Benice said:

OOOF

Hey, this time you can check out Sacae, I guess. If you really feel like it. Any other unit changes that you plan to make? If you're looking for a bulky mage, Raigh, (thanks to Nosferatu barely weighing him down upon promotion) or Hugh are your best bets. Hugh isn't phenomenal in this way, but he'll do okay.

Well I am definitely not going to use Thea (everytime I use her she ends up being absolute garbage and I am tired of trying to make her work. I am so SORRY thea, but you aren't making it any easier on me! 😧 ) I can replace her with Sue perhaps and I'll make it there this time. I am going to stack my team of mages. Mages are like bows in this game only with 1-2 range always. So all those mentioned plus Lugh and Lilina. 

I don't plan on using Dieck to long either. He really turns out well in early in the game and even is great past that, but he really struggles starting from like, chapter 18 onward. Before I used him the whole time, but he's not worth it and if I am going to get out of Ch. 21 alive with all my limbs intact I can't deploy him lol. 

23 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

No problem man, I get ya. That is legitimately quite awful. That's what happens when you let Yoder die though. Old man commands more respect than that, you know.

Thanks. It's pretty painful but hilarious at the same time for me. Haha, that made me laugh. He sure does, and he'll certainly make you pay for it if dare disrespect his omnipotence with such insolence. 

[Benice]

14 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Well I am definitely not going to use Thea (everytime I use her she ends up being absolute garbage and I am tired of trying to make her work. I am so SORRY thea, but you aren't making it any easier on me! 😧 ) I can replace her with Sue perhaps and I'll make it there this time. I am going to stack my team of mages. Mages are like bows in this game only with 1-2 range always. So all those mentioned plus Lugh and Lilina. 

Nice. Aircalibur is really absolutely busted in this game. By now, you'll have a pretty good idea of what this game's all about difficulty-wise, so cut loose and have fun!

[joevar]

2 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Getting promotion items won't be that big of deal either for them since they join later.)

*ahem*SecretShop*ahem*

dont forget to stock in killer-lance/axe/sword , buys a lot of aircalibur , and grind in arena for that money to spend in secretshop to curbstomp all those bad RNG stat 😄

[Sengu]

If we're talking about pre-promotes, then in my experience the best units to invest in are Rutger, Lilina and Deke. As far as the game goes, you will get a lot of promoted units but I can think of a couple of pre-promoted even in the furthest chapters (like Hugh and Zeiss) that are "ok".

I recently played the game for the first time and I found Rutger to be completely broken. He doesn't have a great amount of defence, but he can basically dodge his way out the whole game and confront every boss without breaking a sweat. As for Lilina if you wait to promote her at 20, she becomes an undestroyable magic tank (I'm not a fan of promoting so late, but I hear many people are). She gets incredibly high magic and of course high resistance. Deke doesn't shine in any particular way but I found him to have over all good defence and tons of HP. He is also pretty accurate if you stick to swords (didn't personally bother to train him with axes, I didn't find them to be so useful in this game).

Edited December 13, 2020 by Sengu

[sinfonic18]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:29 AM, Benice said:

Nice. Aircalibur is really absolutely busted in this game. By now, you'll have a pretty good idea of what this game's all about difficulty-wise, so cut loose and have fun!

Thanks! I will do as so. I used Elfire a lot before, but the Aircaliber bonus against fliers is better.

On 12/12/2020 at 6:52 AM, joevar said:

*ahem*SecretShop*ahem*

dont forget to stock in killer-lance/axe/sword , buys a lot of aircalibur , and grind in arena for that money to spend in secretshop to curbstomp all those bad RNG stat 😄

Well yeah, but that doesn't come until Ch. 16

Speaking of the Arena, is it just me or is it extremely hard in this game?

[Benice]

6 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Speaking of the Arena, is it just me or is it extremely hard in this game?

Just due to how enemy stats exist, yes. HMs in most (if not all, I'm not too sure) increase arena enemies too, so in some games, such as FE11's harder difficulties, the Arena becomes nearly impossible to use.

[joevar]

2 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Thanks! I will do as so. I used Elfire a lot before, but the Aircaliber bonus against fliers is better.

Well yeah, but that doesn't come until Ch. 16

Speaking of the Arena, is it just me or is it extremely hard in this game?

aircalibur have same dmg as elfire, lighter (or more hit? forgot), and bonus to flier. no reason to use elfire in FE6 if you can buy aircalibur (provided you had money)

serenes has list of Shop with its content

a little of tip for arena: while it is random, usually you will be fine as long as the bet dont go way beyond 800. when its above 800 the chance you will get bad match will be higher (enemy that beyond your level or maybe with higher than iron weapon). so keep that in mind when training weak unit. good unit can go way past that. My overleveled Saul can have bet near 1000 with real strong enemy but still win anyway since its  magic battle

i've tested it in my playthru. i would say 70% of the time it works. so at least you will have less reset / save state (just enter and out, not start. it will randomize the bet + enemy each time)

Edited December 14, 2020 by joevar

[OriginalRaisins]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:46 PM, sinfonic18 said:

Speaking of the Arena, is it just me or is it extremely hard in this game?

Pro tip: bow units perform really well in arena, since bow stats are actually pretty good and you'll likely go up against scrub magic enemies.

[OriginalRaisins]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:41 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Did the fact that Hero Crests are contested slip your mind? Because even putting aside Rutger, I'd have better units in mind for them. I'm not saying he's irredeemable, only that he's not worth it unless you're okay with gambling on every attack, which I am not. Low skill and axelock is a match made in Hell, to be certain. Also, Secret Books won't help, as his hit problems are that profound (and there's the fact that there's only two in the game anyway, with one of those being route exclusive). Long story short, I have to jump through a shitload of mental hoops to justify the use of an inaccurate axe user on the team when he has little going for him besides raw power, which isn't even that valuable because it's backed by accuracy that is so awful, stormtroopers would point and laugh at him (and considering how much THEY miss, that's saying something). 

Gonzales misses plenty but his high axe rank (if you go Echidna route) gives him plenty of utility in his joining chapter and for a few maps after that. If he starts missing everything, then just bench him. There's plenty of exp in the game and you're not missing out by putting a few kills on Gonzales if the opportunity arises.

In general, if a unit is useful, then use them. If they're not useful, then don't use them. There's not much point getting weighed down by thinking you need excellent levelups to justify usign a unit, because it's simply not true. You get a steady stream of new units as the game progresses and you'll always have the tools to perform well. Yodel and Karel receive a lot of praise, but they're useful for about as many chapters as Gonzales is.

Besides, most of the other axe users in the game are so bad that you can justify giving Gonzales powerful tools like the brave axe without missing out much. Of course he's always going to miss if you only have him use steel axes and hand axes. Give him more accurate weaponry and your special axes and he'll perform just fine.

[OriginalRaisins]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:57 PM, Benice said:

Comparatively, Hugh is able to facetank a little more but can't take as much as Raigh can, with the exception that he's not using Nosferatu. Of the anima users, hee's the sturdiest by quite a bit, and giving him a dracoshield can improve his defenses to be quite respectable. Notably, Hugh instapromoted (15/1) can survive a shot from Ch. 21's wyvern lords. I think that the biggest problem with Hugh is his small +1 to speed upon promotion; he can't instapromote and double consistently out of the gate. Still, his solid speed growth should keep him fine and he will accelerate enough to double.

I personally feel that Raigh>Hugh, but also that Hugh is a little underrated.

Hugh joins ready to promote, and even though he only promotes into E staves, a body with a staff is still more useful than a bad fighting unit. Even if you pay him the minimum amount of gold, his promotion gains get all those stats back, and you've got a staff user with 26 hp, 13 magic, and 12 speed. This is more than enough magic to be a useful healer and enough speed and HP to not get one-rounded. It doesn't matter that you have "better healers" because you just deploy him in addition to your other staff users. Now instead of having to choose between warping and healing on a turn, you can do both.

Also, and this isn't a quality inherent to Hugh, but the member card comes in really clutch. Even putting aside the boots shop in ch 21, the secret shop in 21 is nice. I always find myself short on a few promotion items (especially elysian whips in hard mode) and Hugh's member card is usually what fixes that issue.

And I know the Zeiss conversation is exhausted, but he flies and that's all the utility you need. If you're dissatisfied with his combat ability, just have him rescue somebody you think is good in combat and drop them instead. He might be the wal-mart version of Miledy, but frankly that's still strong enough for most enemies in the game.

[Shadow Mir]

13 hours ago, OriginalRaisins said:

Gonzales misses plenty but his high axe rank (if you go Echidna route) gives him plenty of utility in his joining chapter and for a few maps after that. If he starts missing everything, then just bench him. There's plenty of exp in the game and you're not missing out by putting a few kills on Gonzales if the opportunity arises.

In general, if a unit is useful, then use them. If they're not useful, then don't use them. There's not much point getting weighed down by thinking you need excellent levelups to justify usign a unit, because it's simply not true. You get a steady stream of new units as the game progresses and you'll always have the tools to perform well. Yodel and Karel receive a lot of praise, but they're useful for about as many chapters as Gonzales is.

Besides, most of the other axe users in the game are so bad that you can justify giving Gonzales powerful tools like the brave axe without missing out much. Of course he's always going to miss if you only have him use steel axes and hand axes. Give him more accurate weaponry and your special axes and he'll perform just fine.

The only high rank axes are brave, silver, and Armads (admittedly, though, when I think of "high rank", I think of B and above). And two of those are very inaccurate. Even iron axes are not that accurate in Gonzales's hands. By the way, you completely ignored the part where I would benefit more from promoting Fir or Duke than I would from promoting Gonzales.

When was this about level ups?

I'll grant, most axe users in this game are awful. The thing is, Gonzales might be the best of them, but that's as relevant as Rolf being the only archer in PoR until Shinon rejoins - not very, because he still sucks. Also, what the hell possesses you to think giving Gonzales the special axes will help him??? Because if I can't even trust him to hit with a goddamn iron axe, and the special axes are even more inaccurate, that only means I expect him to do nothing but "MISS!" even more than he already does.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[sinfonic18]

Alright well sorry I haven't replied to anyone in this for a while. It's been snowing like crazy here and my power went out for a day straight so I wasn't able to play FE6 for the whole time. And as I come back on and finally am able to play I see that my save files were erased. *sigh*

[Benice]

11 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

And as I come back on and finally am able to play I see that my save files were erased. *sigh*

Goodness gracious, it keeps getting worse! Hope that you're doing okay through all the chaos.

[sinfonic18]

6 hours ago, Benice said:

Goodness gracious, it keeps getting worse! Hope that you're doing okay through all the chaos.

Well, scratch that actually. After digging around all night I was blessed and lucky as heck to find my save file just appear out of thin air when I restarted the game! Honestly, I have no words for what happened, nor do I care now, because I am just thankful and relieved to have my saves back XD. My god that was terrifying. 

I have just had the most terrible luck with this game! Makes playing it even better I guess, since fate sure doesn't want me to. lol. But anyways, onto the topic at hand....

On 12/13/2020 at 6:54 PM, Benice said:

Just due to how enemy stats exist, yes. HMs in most (if not all, I'm not too sure) increase arena enemies too, so in some games, such as FE11's harder difficulties, the Arena becomes nearly impossible to use.

On 12/13/2020 at 9:02 PM, joevar said:

aircalibur have same dmg as elfire, lighter (or more hit? forgot), and bonus to flier. no reason to use elfire in FE6 if you can buy aircalibur (provided you had money)

serenes has list of Shop with its content

a little of tip for arena: while it is random, usually you will be fine as long as the bet dont go way beyond 800. when its above 800 the chance you will get bad match will be higher (enemy that beyond your level or maybe with higher than iron weapon). so keep that in mind when training weak unit. good unit can go way past that. My overleveled Saul can have bet near 1000 with real strong enemy but still win anyway since its  magic battle

i've tested it in my playthru. i would say 70% of the time it works. so at least you will have less reset / save state (just enter and out, not start. it will randomize the bet + enemy each time)

On 12/14/2020 at 10:17 PM, OriginalRaisins said:

Pro tip: bow units perform really well in arena, since bow stats are actually pretty good and you'll likely go up against scrub magic enemies.

I've noticed this with the Arena in the Sacred Stones and Binding Blade. Hard mode seems to make it near impossible for certain units, I guess due to the randomness of it. Most of the time I'll get matched to an opponent with outrageous stats and a weapon advantage, and I'll have such a low hitrate I'll always miss and in turn get my crap kicked in in like 2 rounds. Only certain amounts of units do the Arena successfully (Like @OriginalRaisins said, my bow users almost never lost a battle, a long with Gonzales and Rutger who tore the Arena up) whereas units like Alen and Dieck got murdered every time they went in. For me, it didn't just happen when the bid got higher, it was from the beginning. Only thing most of my units could beat was really bad Soldiers and those enemies suck. I'm on Chapter 12 now again, and the only new unit(s) I'll have to train in the Arena are Melady and Raigh (hopefully) which shouldn't have an issue with it since one is a god and the other uses magic. 

On another topic that I've been wanting to talk about: Lances. Lances absolutely suck in this game. Everytime I get them even if they're silver I throw them away or sell them. In my opinion there is no reason to use them in this game since they have less hitrate than swords and less might than axes, and the excel at neither. Lance users have actually been a heck of a lot more inaccurate for me than any axe user in this game. It's gotten to the point where I'm basically just using axes and swords on my horseback units and just swords on Shanna. 

Sorry about the lance rant there, but dang, did they nerf that weapon in this one.