Theorycrafting 3H character balance changes

[SnowFire]

The recent big character ranking threads got me thinking about some possible tweaks to inter-cast balance.  What would be some good modifications to make the characters both more balanced, while still being "interesting" ?  An easy way to bring balance is to make everyone Felix / Petra clones, but yawn to that.  Also, let's try to avoid class balance changes, or fundamental major additions to the game.  For example, Catherine and Felix (and Byleth?)'s default swordmaster builds would probably have been improved by some sort of swords & fists War Master variant at the Master Tier (Trueblade?  Dread Fighter?), but that's a bit beyond the scope of this topic.  We're looking for changes that wouldn't be too crazy or require major reworking of the game system.

At the top end the Lords & Byleth could all arguably use a nerf, but clearly they're good intentionally, so they're actually fine.  Maybe hand out Flying Weakness a bit more liberally if we were serious about nerfing the top-end - Edelgard in particular (attempt to force her more toward Fortress Knight / Emperor / Warrior, which makes Raging Storm more balanced), but it's not a big deal.

For the lower-ranked characters from the topics..

Ignatz: I'm not really sure anything needs to be done for Ignatz.  While he was ranked a 4 ultimately, he has his niche and serves it well.  Maybe some of his utility Combat Arts could be safely buffed in power since they eventually compete with the mighty Hunter's Volley, but as said above, that'd be beyond the scope here.

Flayn: What Flayn really needs is even more Faith spells, but she's already at the 5 spell limit, so swap out Restore for Seraphim perhaps?  She can share the monster-hunting niche with Lysithea and have less need to invest in Reason.  Lily's Poise is a good passive but since Flayn still has issues, it could probably afford to be buffed even more - make it like Fates and offer +1 damage dealt as well, say.

Hanneman: Mostly good for the archetype he's aiming for.  Better skill ranks would be nice though: if he joined with C-Authority, that'd be both flavorful and convenient.  Same with an even higher Reason / Bow rank.

Caspar: Among the Axe/Fist crew, Dedue is the best (Good Str / Def), Raphael is good at Str, Alois has Charm, and Caspar has…  Speed, I guess?  But his cripplingly bad base Spd means that he isn't really outpacing the class minimums unless you make Assassin Caspar or something, meaning he isn't really much faster than say Raphael until very late, since class mins will catch everyone else up.  If he was supposed to be the "fast" War Master, give him substantially better speed growth - 45%->55%, say.  He's still flat worse than War Master Felix but at least he has something of a niche.

For Ashe, I think the idea was fine, just having good Dex & Luck is even weaker than the devs "thought" (The passive abilities that boost them are +4 compared to other stat's +2, but in reality, you'd need them to be more like Dex +8 or Lck +8 / Chr +8 to compete with Str +2 / Spd +2).  I'd say go all in on the meme: give Ashe 75% base Dex & Lck growths, so that he's guaranteed to be zooming over the competition there.  (Could also give him Riding Talent..  but then he starts to interfere with Leonie's easiest-to-Bow Knight niche.)

Manuela: This idea came up in the thread, but if you don't have a Dancer in your team post-timeskip (maybe you skipped the Ball?  Or made Flayn your Dancer on Crimson Flower?  Or the Dancer died in Classic mode?), then Manuela auto-qualifies as a Dancer, which would give her Sword Avo +20.  Another Faith spell would help to make her "default" Bishop build less of a trap: even just boring ol' Recover would help.  Also, have her join with C-Authority.  Could maybe make her passive crit avoid ability spread over a wider area as well, so she doesn't have to get quite as close to the fray.

Lorenz: Lorenz is the Golden Deer's mixed tank.  IntSys clearly wants to be careful with this archetype as, especially on the easier difficulties, they can cheeze the game hard if you just send an invincible-to-everything guy forward.  That said, Lorenz may have been TOO weak - I've tried to avoid simple stat tweaks, but both Paladin Lorenz & Mage Lorenz would appreciate a slightly higher Defense / Resistance growth (+5% to each?) that makes Lorenz's survival plan more viable.  (The other obvious thing to do would be to make Thrysus locked to Lorenz only, but that goes very much against the general philosophy of the game, where Lysithea having an extra Crest is supposed to be an advantage, and even other random Crest-holders can use relics.)

Raphael: Raphael is mostly in an acceptable niche despite being objectively on the weak side, similar to Ignatz.  I'd say to replace his lame passive entirely, but Balthus already kinda did that!  I guess if we're keeping it, don't make it Lck%, have it trigger no matter what.  Makes him even worse for Vantage builds but you should do that on others anyway.

Gilbert: He's a Veteran Knight, right?  To me, flavorfully, that means maybe his stats are a little bad due to age, but he's incredibly experienced.  So yeah, repeat "better skill levels on join".  Let him get to Axefaire / Lancefaire if you want!  Give him a starting A+ in Axes / Lances / Armor and a B in Authority & Riding.  He's still not great, but if you do build him, he can legitimately get to some of the high-end stuff now and isn't tossed into mid-game catchup mode quite as hard.

Anna has among the easiest fixes: just give her supports.  If voice acting budget is a concern, give her just arbitrary supports strictly as a gameplay conceit that start pre-filled, no conversations or meals shared necessary.  She's still not great, but she isn't suffering from -5 to -20 Hit & Avoid that other characters will have by the timeskip, as well as notably worse Gambit accuracy.  To really improve her, we need to toss her passive; "+X stat" is not even a passive, that's just…  make her starting Luck higher then instead.  Interesting other options: "+1 Move" would raise some eyebrows and instantly make her among the best targets for stat-boosters to fix her bad growths but hey, a free Boots is unique and interesting.  Another option might be "can use half magic in non-magic using classes, and use normal magic charges in half-magic using classes."  This makes her a bit saucier as a Trickster, and lets her Assassin / Sniper build do Trickster things too.  She's sufficiently weak that something really spicy like this is "safe" to give her.
 

Of course, none of this will actually happen, but still!  Any thoughts?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Flayn: To add on to what you said: if Flayn is going to dump Reason, then I'd suggest she gets more offence from lance, because she's simply not a good enough faith mage to justify having no offence. Easiest fix here is to give her Frozen Lance at C+ instead of A. This will allow her to do something besides being a bad healer who can periodically use Rescue before reaching an A rank in something. Alternatively, you could make her more Cyril than Cyril and make the bad start intentional, but then the stat growths should probably be a lot better.

Caspar: -Authority is a balancer for units who are otherwise good (Felix, Hilda, Hapi). It doesn't make much sense on Caspar, unless he's going to be way better than he currently is. He should probably be the best punch-focused character (I'd say axe, but the Eagles already have lots of axes) Make him +armour (he literally wears armour post-timeskip), give him better speed. Maybe change his personal so it also debuffs adjacent enemy crit avoid by 10, which would make him the best crit-focused War Master in the game.

Lorenz: What if Thyrsus was normally only Range+1, but Range+2 if you had the crest of Gloucester? (I'd probably change Lysithea's second crest to something else, too... maybe one of the "conserves offensive magic uses" ones.) That'd fit with the general design philosophy of relics, and actually make it feel like Lorenz makes uniquely good use of his (the same way Hilda makes uniquely good use of hers, etc.) Range+1 is still useful for everyone else! This does mean Caduceus is now a bit better than Thyrsus for non-Lorenz people but you could monkey with specifics there if that bothers you (and hey, you do get Caduceus a bit later).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm only considering balances related to non-DLC, non NG+, Maddening mode since it's all I know. But I won't add entirely new things to the game (no matter how badly I'd like to put a magic bow combat art in for Hanneman and Mercedes). I won't touch the class balance, but I did change one spell.

Ignatz would be buffed considerably if you replaced Leonie's Break shot with a different combat art, since it's annoying that a much better unit on his team is providing that same vital utility. Beyond that, fix the kid's charm growth. 25 is too low, and you can dip into his luck or dex growths to do it. As a Sniper, he doesn't need a high charm as much as other units, but I imagine his growths were balanced against Bernadetta and Ashe, and you know they fucked up when they made Bernadetta the most charming of the three. The girl who screams and runs away from people who aren't strangers.

Flayn: Hard pass on replacing anything with Seraphim. Seraphim is problematic because you're going to get counterattacked and need to put a magic range increasing accessory on her when it's probably the only attacking she'll do. Plus monsters are never really a problem except in one map (sothis paralogue) which you'll probably do much sooner than you can get Flayn's Faith rank to A. I think Flayn is perfect the way she is, with clear strengths and weaknesses over other healers, but I guess I'd put Frozen Lance at C+, since other units get to benefit from magic combat arts sooner than her and pushing for it is a serious strain on her skill exp investment.

Hanneman: Make Sagittae a 3 range spell and lower its accuracy by 10. It has no niche in three houses beyond being a stronger Fire. replace Thoron with Excalibur. I want this guy to actually have the best Reason spread in order to justify recruiting him as a mage. If all of that sounds too much then ramp up his starting authority and give him a ton of rallies.

Caspar: Start with his base stats. 6 speed is unworkable, bump it to 8. It's like you said he won't overtake Raphael or Dedue in speed until his mid level 20s. I want to remove his authority bane but can't think of who else on the team to give it to besides Edelgard, which probably wouldn't be too crippling if she still begins at D and has unique classes that can fastrack her authority growth anyway. An armor proficiency would be nice. Maybe also grant him a starting D in brawling in addition to Axes so he's a bit closer to Bombard which is vital. And canonically he's the only student that regularly gets in fist fights so it fits. Give him an authority proficiency and he can be the rally bot that the Black Eagles lack. There's a lot of directions you can go for this kid that I'm not sure which to pick.

Raphael: Strength growth at 60. The only other student canonically that matches Raphael's strength training and protein packing is Dimitri and missing a strength up on a level hurts in the very early game. Then buff his personal skill to always heal at 10% each turn, or heal 20% of HP while having odds at double his luck stat. Then One-Two Punch at A rank so that Caspar can match Raphael's damage in the mid game but Raphael can overcome speed issues in the very late game by never being doubled like Dedue or Alois.

Lorenz: taking into account the Sagittae buff we did for Hanneman, Lorenz really only wants boosts to magic or speed growths since Ragnarok at B is already busted and his personal is excellent. Maybe also put his starting reason at D so he has Fire for chapter 1, and nerf his starting riding to E+. I dunno, this guy is perfectly balanced by my estimation. All I can say for sure is ramp up his starting charm to 8. This man is a treasure. He should not be considered less charming than some low-born like Leonie.

Ashe: Swap Batallion desperation for Batallion Wrath. Give him Riding proficiency since he wants to be a knight canonically. I think increasing his build variety is really the surest thing I'd give him so that we can stop comparing him to the other, better snipers. Then you could put Point Blank Volley at A rank. I hate throwing around one the best combat arts in the game haphazardly, but Ashe feels like he ought to be the best bow knight in the game anyway, to make up for an icky early game and lack of personal skill that competes with Ignatz or Bernadetta. Reward players for sticking with this kid.

Manuela: Giving her access to the dancer class is really the biggest thing, but obviously is kind of weird if we're just thinking of changes you could see in a "patch update". And we can't create any new classes either. I guess just remove the reason bane (I know it's there for her to be a counterpart to Hanneman, but Hanneman doesn't have a Faith bane so it's a fail of a reference anyway), ramp up her starting authority (yeah I know she's an irresponsible teacher, but she at least canonically commands attention from the boys due to her appearance). Then buff her personal to give nearby allies avoid against gambits or something else unique in addition to crit avoid. That way she's really helping out frontliners by being nearby since they often have two problems, low luck and low charm.

Gilbert: I think his starting ranks are fantastic, just boost his starting authority from D+ to C (he actually has a C authority as a green unit in chapter 5). Boost his defense growth from 45 to 50 so it matches Dedue, and ramp up the base defense while nerfing the charm base and growth since this guy should not be as charming as she is. I don't want to trade his lance rank for a brawling rank, because that would just make him a copy of Alois. Put a steel lance in his inventory when he joins and equip him with swordbreaker, and trade helm splitter for shatter slash in his equipped combat arts. I think Gilberts pretty well designed already (being able to survive in chapter 13 and provide both rally defense and smite), I would just optimize him more for that chapter and maybe boost his base stats.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Shadow Mir]

Raphael: For being supposed to be the tank for the Golden Deer, he fails to live up to that, as his base durability is only marginally better than Hilda's, and considering he's as slow as a snail on depressants after an opponent picks up a Timer, I'm not sure it'll ever get significantly better. To that end, give him extra base durability. Also, buff his personal to heal a flat 10 HP like it did for Velouria in Fates - 10% is a drop in the bucket.

Annette: While she wasn't that low rank wise, I'd buff the Crusher to actually make it worth using, because as is, it's a steaming pile of shit that fails to live up to the storyline hype that surrounds the Heroes' Relics.

[lenticular]

All church units: Give them some appropriate class masteries when they join. It would make sense in storyline for Hanneman to have already mastered being a mage, for instance. This would stop them from being in a hole to begin with and would mean you wouldn't have to spend time with them in lower tier classes to back fill the masteries they should already have. The one church unit I wouldn't do this with is Cyril since it wouldn't make storyline sense. Instead, I'd fold his existing personal into his base growth rate, and give him a new personal that increases his class xp gain.

Manuela: A lot of what I'd like to do with Manuela would take bigger changes, but if we're looking only at small character tweaks, I think there are two viable routes. One would be to get rid of her weakness in reason and make her viable as a Gremory or possibly even a Mortal Savant. My other idea would be to turn her into a dedicated magic weapon attacker. For stats, nerf her strength but increase her magic. Maybe something like 7+30 strength and 10+40 magic? Then also give her a strength in lances and the ability to learn Frozen Lance. She might be encroaching a bit too much on Ingrid's niche at that point, though, so maybe give Ingrid a small strength buff to compensate.

Flayn: Ditch Heal and Nosferatu and give her Recover at D and Seraphim at D+ instead. She is literally the patron saint of white magic, so if anyone gets to break the mold and not follow the unwritten rule of Heal and Nosferatu it should be her. I think this gives her a really compelling faith list which would be a good incentive to use her, but without physic she isn't just strictly better than all other healers.

Ashe: Get rid of his personal and replace it with a new one that gives him crit +10.

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Lorenz: What if Thyrsus was normally only Range+1, but Range+2 if you had the crest of Gloucester? (I'd probably change Lysithea's second crest to something else, too... maybe one of the "conserves offensive magic uses" ones.) That'd fit with the general design philosophy of relics, and actually make it feel like Lorenz makes uniquely good use of his (the same way Hilda makes uniquely good use of hers, etc.) Range+1 is still useful for everyone else! This does mean Caduceus is now a bit better than Thyrsus for non-Lorenz people but you could monkey with specifics there if that bothers you (and hey, you do get Caduceus a bit later).

I really like this idea. Nerfing Thyrsus in general is also a good balance change, and having +2 range be unique to Lorenz would really give him a cool niche.

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Caspar: Start with his base stats. 6 speed is unworkable, bump it to 8. It's like you said he won't overtake Raphael or Dedue in speed until his mid level 20s. I want to remove his authority bane but can't think of who else on the team to give it to besides Edelgard

If you want to keep one authority bae per house, then maybe Linhardt? It would make perfect sense from a story/lore perspective, since Linhardt has zero interest in commanding others, and it wouldn't hurt him too much in terms of gameplay since he has such a narrow focus and so can afford to put some extra time into training authority.

[RaIsMyPet]

My intuition is instead of direct buffing those weaker units up, giving them more "side niche" would be better: give them a small-ish niche, but really really good in that niche.

For example, simply giving Lorenz a personal that halves magic damage taken, or -10 magic damage or whatever, then coupled with Thyrsus you got a really good niche in res tank. Perhaps still not enough to make him good, but at least it distinguishes him and you can modify the idea further.

The problem with many weaker units is that they get outclassed in multiple fronts: Caspar gets outclassed by Byleth in an "overall" sense, and by Felix in a "brute-force" sense. So no matter what you patch him: authority bane or STR/SPD base, he still gets outclassed by at least one of them. Same with Ashe: in the bow front, by either Claude or Leonie, in the "speedy-crit" front, by Petra. No matter how you fix him "directly", you still get a slightly weaker Claude, or slightly weaker Petra. You cannot just throw them really broken abilities or really high stat either, since that creates new problem and is boring. So I would say trying to invent side-niche or support units might be better.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I'm going to suggest buffs/nerfs based on my own rankings. For it would hardly make sense to advocate an improvement to a unit whom I'm satisfied with, but others find lacking. Anyway;

Nerf The Professor by reducing their base HP (27 -> 25) and Strength (13 -> 11). Also, "Professor's Guidance" now only boosts the exp gain of adjacent allies. The self-paragon effect comes when it turns into "Professor's Guidance+", which no longer offers a damage boost.

Nerf Petra by turning her Axe boon into a neutrality, starting at E-rank.

Nerf Felix by turning his Flight and Lance neutralities into banes.

Buff Gilbert by... well, @Glennstavos already fielded this one. C Authority, have him join with a Level 5 Kingdom Armored Co in chapter 13. Also, give him a good inventory: Silver Lance, Javelin, Steel Shield, and Elixir. With proper skills and combat arts equipped.

Buff Caspar by turning his Bow boon neutral, and buffing his Gauntlet start (E+ -> D+). Born Fighter now also inflicts -10 Crit Avoid to adjacent enemies.

Buff Raphael by replacing Draining Blow (at A Gauntlets) with One-Two Punch, and boost his personal to restore 20% HP, at the start of any turn where his current HP is less than his Luck.

Buff Flayn by increasing her HP growth (0.30 -> 0.50), and replace Fire (at D+ Reason) with Blizzard. Also, let her join with D Authority.

Buff Manuela by turning her Reason bane into a neutrality, and starting with D Authority. And her personal now also grants Avoid +10 to adjacent allies.

Buff Ashe by increasing his base Strength (8 -> 10), and giving him a Riding boon (E+).

I could address more, but I'd rather not change anyone I rated between 5 and 8. And I'd also prefer not to nerf Edelgard or Claude (whom I both rated 9), under the "but the Lords are supposed to be broken" paradigm.

4 hours ago, lenticular said:

I really like this idea. Nerfing Thyrsus in general is also a good balance change, and having +2 range be unique to Lorenz would really give him a cool niche.

Here's how I'd satisfy this: Thyrsus grants Black Magic Range +1, then an additional Black Magic Range +1 with the Crest of Gloucester. So Lysithea can equip it, but it wouldn't benefit her dark spells - only Lorenz would get +2 range to his spells. Admittedly, this would be in conjunction with Caduceus changing to grant White Magic Range +1.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

replace Fire (at D+ Reason) with Blizzard. 

No. Just no. What is the purpose of this when Blizzard is much worse than Fire??

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

23 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

No. Just no. What is the purpose of this when Blizzard is much worse than Fire??

Fire is worse than Wind at hitting, and has less crit than Blizzard. Plus, she can use Fire as a Mage, so the extra charges are redundant in that class. I admit, though, the main rationale for this one is a thematic one. With how Flayn obsesses over the sea, learning Ice magic makes far more sense than Fire magic.

[Shadow Mir]

11 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Fire is worse than Wind at hitting, and has less crit than Blizzard. Plus, she can use Fire as a Mage, so the extra charges are redundant in that class. I admit, though, the main rationale for this one is a thematic one. With how Flayn obsesses over the sea, learning Ice magic makes far more sense than Fire magic.

Blizzard's high crit doesn't make up for it being the second most inaccurate black magic spell (or third, as Bolting and Fimbulvetr share the bottom spot), as I see it. As a result, I can only see this as a losing trade.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[LJ_Reflet]

Flayn for sure needs Physic. She's obviously built to be a healer, but she misses out on the most important healing tome in the game. I also feel like getting rid of her riding bane would help her out immensely to give her better access to Holy Knight or Dark Knight because she has the boon in lances anyway (I don't even see the point of giving her the lance boon with a riding bane when all lance-based classes are mounted 😭). Despite Holy Knight not being a great class, a riding boon or neutrality in it would at least help diversify her class options.

With Caspar, he was supposed to be the "tanky" unit for Black Eagles (and I'm using tanky very lightly here), but compared to Dedue and Raphael, he was supposed to be the "fast" tank. If that was supposed to be his concept, they need to bump up his base speed to at least 8 (but definitely not as fast as the speed sistahs) and growth to at least 50%. I love Caspar, and they did him really dirty LOL.

For Ashe, if we're not gonna give him a strength buff, all he really needs is better Combat Arts because that's what Bernie and Ignatz have that Ashe doesn't. At least give him Encloser or Hit and Run or something LOL. Lance Jab instead of Shatter Slash would probably work better for him since he has pretty good speed. Maybe even change his personal? Maybe give him something like Subaki's Pike from Fates, where weapon mt is doubled when the enemy's dex is lower, but damn that'd be pretty OP LOL.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Tenma

[Dark Holy Elf]

9 hours ago, Tenma said:

With Caspar, he was supposed to be the "tanky" unit for Black Eagles (and I'm using tanky very lightly here)

Lightly indeed.

• Edelgard: 29+40% HP, 6+35% def
• Ferdinand: 28+50% HP, 6+35% def
• Caspar: 26+55% HP, 6+30% def

Caspar eventually gets slightly more HP than Edelgard (not Ferdinand) but starts out behind and always trails a little in defence. And of course Edelgard has a boon in armour, Ferdinand has a budding talent, and Caspar has neither, meaning the former two get def from Armour/Fortress Knight base def more easily. Even ignoring other defensive stats like speed (for not being doubled), res, avoid, and charm, Caspar is at best the third tankiest member of his own house, let alone when compared to Dedue, Raphael, Dimitri, Leonie, Sylvain, etc. If he's supposed to be tanky (which would be a decent niche for him, since Edelgard and Ferdinand primarily fill other ones), he should in my opinion at minimum have 7+40% def (which is still lower than Raphael or Dedue).

[Agro]

10 hours ago, Tenma said:

With Caspar, he was supposed to be the "tanky" unit for Black Eagles (and I'm using tanky very lightly here), but compared to Dedue and Raphael, he was supposed to be the "fast" tank. If that was supposed to be his concept, they need to bump up his base speed to at least 8 (but definitely not as fast as the speed sistahs) and growth to at least 50%. I love Caspar, and they did him really dirty LOL.

Disagree - Edelgard is clearly the designated tank of BE. She's even in an armored class, canonically. Caspar is... I don't know what Caspar is. The designated Brawler, but he's not slow as shit?

Manuela and Hanneman would be instantly improved by raising their Authority ranks to at least C. They should come as Warlock and Bishop, respectively, with appropriate weapon ranks, just like Catherine and Shamir, who are mostly good because of their insane starting skill ranks. They're meant to be like pre-promotes! Why aren't they plug-n-play units?

Flayn really just needs Physic, quicker Frozen Lance, and I'd advocate for some buffed bases as well, particularly Speed and Magic. 

Lorenz might have been fun with a personal gimmick that allowed him to use magic as a Cavalier. Also, not locking the only magic lance to CF would have been nice for this guy.

 

[LJ_Reflet]

15 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Lightly indeed.

• Edelgard: 29+40% HP, 6+35% def
• Ferdinand: 28+50% HP, 6+35% def
• Caspar: 26+55% HP, 6+30% def

Caspar eventually gets slightly more HP than Edelgard (not Ferdinand) but starts out behind and always trails a little in defence. And of course Edelgard has a boon in armour, Ferdinand has a budding talent, and Caspar has neither, meaning the former two get def from Armour/Fortress Knight base def more easily. Even ignoring other defensive stats like speed (for not being doubled), res, avoid, and charm, Caspar is at best the third tankiest member of his own house, let alone when compared to Dedue, Raphael, Dimitri, Leonie, Sylvain, etc. If he's supposed to be tanky (which would be a decent niche for him, since Edelgard and Ferdinand primarily fill other ones), he should in my opinion at minimum have 7+40% def (which is still lower than Raphael or Dedue).

 

11 minutes ago, Agro said:

Disagree - Edelgard is clearly the designated tank of BE. She's even in an armored class, canonically. Caspar is... I don't know what Caspar is. The designated Brawler, but he's not slow as shit?

Sorry, what I meant by Caspar being a "tank" was that he was put into Black Eagles to play a similar role as what Dedue and Raphael do in their respective houses, as they are the tanky units with Brawling and Axe boons--but I am very aware of Caspar's lack of defense despite having a pretty good HP stat (Which is why I said very lightly HAHA). I suppose "brawler" would have been a more appropriate term to refer to Caspar.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Tenma

[SumG]

Some of the fixes are more straight forward and some are more difficult.

Ignatz is a bit tricky, but his personal ability would really kick him down the path of being a great long range sniper.  So its a real shame that he doesn't have access to the good long range bow combat arts.  Give him access to Deadeye and Encloser, and there would be an arguable late game role for him as a unit that can reliably get hits on attacks from 4-5 spaces away.  This would give him a late game niche role to go along with his early game niche role.

Flayn is super easy.  Give her Physic.  End of changes.  If Flayn had Physic, she would be hands down the best healer in the game, and it wouldn't be particularly close.  But given that the best healer in the game currently (Mercedes) is considered only a mid-tier character, the revamped Flayn wouldn't be overpowered.

Hanneman I don't think needs to be changed all that much.  He is there to be a fall back mage in case your student mages die.  He's intended to be a (generally) inferior option to the students.  He's got a good spell list and a decent magic stat, but not much else.  I say leave him be.

Caspar would have been interesting as a less-tanky frontline warrior that leaned more heavily on crits.  Something like a high-risk/high-reward character.  The problem is that crits aren't common in the early game regardless and there isn't enough differentiation between Caspar and general units.  So I'd propose changing Caspar's personal ability to something like a +10% crit rate/+10% crit rate received.  Avoid -10% is a already a pretty crappy ability, and this wouldn't necessarily be as overpowered as you might think, given that many bosses stats are high enough prevent crits already.

Ashe has a clear role to play in the game.  Locktouch would be a great niche ability if it wasn't for the fact that you can buy as many chest keys in the shop and warp them onto the map from the convoy.  I think changing it such that you couldn't buy keys in the shops would instantly make Ashe relevant, particularly in the early game.  Maybe give him a bit more strength to stay relevant.  He wouldn't be an all-star, but he would have a clearly defined role.

Manuela is an easy fix as well.  Just take away the bane in Reason.  It doesn't even have to be a boon.  Just make her neutral in Reason and she'd be usable, given her stats.  But given Reason spells are so much stronger than Faith offensive spells, Manuela can't function as an offensive mage without Reason.

Lorenz needs a ton of help.  He is intended to be a hybrid unit between physical and magic, but the problem is that he doesn't get access to any class good at that until Master Tier.  He desperately needs access to a hybrid class before then, preferably one that would help with training for the requirements for Dark Knight.  He would need access to some kind of hybrid melee/magic class in the Advanced tier.

Raphael is clearly intended to be a tank, but unfortunately he doesn't get much distinction in terms of stats from main line martial units.  He has high HP, but really needs a ton more defense.  If he, and Dedue for that matter, had defense growth rates of maybe 75-80%, then maybe they could survive as armored units into maddening.  Additionally, removing the bane in riding (again, not even needing a boon), would allow some unit to be useful in Great Knight.

Gilbert is another unit doesn't need a ton of change.  He's intended to be a placeholder for Dedue on one route and a back up in case other units die.  He functions serviceably as an Armored Knight or Great Knight given his boons and stat growths.  Maybe bump up his defense growth a hair to stay more relevant on Maddening, but I don't think much needs to change.

Lastly,  Anna is present as a head nod to franchise fans.  If you're using her, it's because you enjoy the head nod.  I wouldn't bother to improve her all that much.

Edited November 27, 2020 by SumG

[Barren]

2 hours ago, SumG said:

Some of the fixes are more straight forward and some are more difficult.

Ignatz is a bit tricky, but his personal ability would really kick him down the path of being a great long range sniper.  So its a real shame that he doesn't have access to the good long range bow combat arts.  Give him access to Deadeye and Encloser, and there would be an arguable late game role for him as a unit that can reliably get hits on attacks from 4-5 spaces away.  This would give him a late game niche role to go along with his early game niche role.

Flayn is super easy.  Give her Physic.  End of changes.  If Flayn had Physic, she would be hands down the best healer in the game, and it wouldn't be particularly close.  But given that the best healer in the game currently (Mercedes) is considered only a mid-tier character, the revamped Flayn wouldn't be overpowered.

Hanneman I don't think needs to be changed all that much.  He is there to be a fall back mage in case your student mages die.  He's intended to be a (generally) inferior option to the students.  He's got a good spell list and a decent magic stat, but not much else.  I say leave him be.

Caspar would have been interesting as a less-tanky frontline warrior that leaned more heavily on crits.  Something like a high-risk/high-reward character.  The problem is that crits aren't common in the early game regardless and there isn't enough differentiation between Caspar and general units.  So I'd propose changing Caspar's personal ability to something like a +10% crit rate/+10% crit rate received.  Avoid -10% is a already a pretty crappy ability, and this wouldn't necessarily be as overpowered as you might think, given that many bosses stats are high enough prevent crits already.

Ashe has a clear role to play in the game.  Locktouch would be a great niche ability if it wasn't for the fact that you can buy as many chest keys in the shop and warp them onto the map from the convoy.  I think changing it such that you couldn't buy keys in the shops would instantly make Ashe relevant, particularly in the early game.  Maybe give him a bit more strength to stay relevant.  He wouldn't be an all-star, but he would have a clearly defined role.

Manuela is an easy fix as well.  Just take away the bane in Reason.  It doesn't even have to be a boon.  Just make her neutral in Reason and she'd be usable, given her stats.  But given Reason spells are so much stronger than Faith offensive spells, Manuela can't function as an offensive mage without Reason.

Lorenz needs a ton of help.  He is intended to be a hybrid unit between physical and magic, but the problem is that he doesn't get access to any class good at that until Master Tier.  He desperately needs access to a hybrid class before then, preferably one that would help with training for the requirements for Dark Knight.  He would need access to some kind of hybrid melee/magic class in the Advanced tier.

Raphael is clearly intended to be a tank, but unfortunately he doesn't get much distinction in terms of stats from main line martial units.  He has high HP, but really needs a ton more defense.  If he, and Dedue for that matter, had defense growth rates of maybe 75-80%, then maybe they could survive as armored units into maddening.  Additionally, removing the bane in riding (again, not even needing a boon), would allow some unit to be useful in Great Knight.

Gilbert is another unit doesn't need a ton of change.  He's intended to be a placeholder for Dedue on one route and a back up in case other units die.  He functions serviceably as an Armored Knight or Great Knight given his boons and stat growths.  Maybe bump up his defense growth a hair to stay more relevant on Maddening, but I don't think much needs to change.

Lastly,  Anna is present as a head nod to franchise fans.  If you're using her, it's because you enjoy the head nod.  I wouldn't bother to improve her all that much.

For Ignatz, if that were to happen, I would think that keeping his stat growths as they are would be the proper way to rebalance him because if he had another boost in strength or something then with Deadeye and Encloser he would be the more OP archer. Would he keep his budding talent in reason? Because the devs had built him to be a debuffing unit with seal strength and break shot in mind.

 

Flayn having Physic would no doubt be a godsend for her. But I do wish that she’d be unique as a healer. Someone mentioned that so I’ll second this. Give her Recover instead of Heal as her D rank spell since she’s supposed to be the gifted white mage. I wouldn’t mind her leaving the rest of her spells as they are because having rescue and fortify are a nice set of spells for her.

 

For Caspar, his personal ability stays in affect if he is still next to an enemy making it easier for his teammates to hit them. But I do think that he could be bulkier or faster since he starts off behind anyways. Though granting allies extra crit when he is adjacent would be nice.

 

Ashe, maybe changing his personal ability would make sense performance wise but lore wise no it won’t. I do think however that allowing him to steal freely regardless of stat difference in addition to lock picking would be good because at least you won’t have to be forced to use a thief when you want to steal something like an evasion ring or aurora’s shield for example from some of the bosses. If we were to ditch it entirely, then maybe something like patience from awakening except that you gain hit and crit +10 or something when you choose to wait. Also give him battalion vantage instead of battalion desperation so you can crit stack with him using a forged killer’s bow. While a bit off topic, I think sniper should get bow crit +10 so they can be as proficient at scoring critical hits like Swordmaster and Warrior.

 

Manuela I pretty much agree with. Her high speed would help her double with Darting Blow and her as a Mortal Savant would work. Another side note: I would at least give Mortal Savant a +10% speed growth instead of -10%. Sure they would still be slower than Swordmaster or Assassin but at least they can be a viable hybrid sword class. But enough derailing.

 

For Lorenz since he went to the school of sorcery before going to the Alliance, why not give him an innate boost with his magical damage in addition to his +2 damage with a battalion equipped. Like either an additional 10% of his magic stat plus his PA, or a enemy suffers a res - 5 when Lorenz is within a range of 3 so that way other mages can easily destroy enemies.

 

For Raphael, I would give him the effect of Leftovers from Pokémon to make his PA better. 12.5% of max HP recovered every turn. And sure raise his HP, defense and dex growths to make him a solid reliable tank.

 

Gilbert, I guess just give him better equips in part 2. Like a Silver Axe, Silver Shield, Elixirs, and a item stat buff (probably defense) so he can use it on his first turn. And give him a unique battalion (with his authority at rank C) where it jacks up his protection, hit and might.

 

Anna, I guess give her supports so she can be a viable unit. And maybe just for the sake of nostalgia, have her join you as a Trickster. Why not? She’ll already have commoner, myrmidon, monk, priest and thief mastered. The rest of her proficiencies are fine.

 

If I can add a couple of things: Petra’s personal ability should just be critical +15. That right there would give Petra a better role at killing since her strength growth is a little lacking.
 

For Felix, since he happens to have a boon in bows and a 55% strength growth, give him Point-Blank Volley. That right there would make him a better Bow Knight since he can still keep Heavy Draw for raw damage, Curved Shot for reliable chip and PBV for a brave attack that isn’t HV. Also instead of a budding talent in reason magic. Budding talent in flying. Fraldarius is a Falcon Knight and ladies can learn Darting Blow. Felix bares it’s major crest so him having Darting Blow like Jeritza would be a fantastic ability for him.

Thoughts on this?

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Barren

[Dark Holy Elf]

Felix really doesn't need a buff. He already arguably outclasses all the "canon" archers at their jobs with his better stats and Heavy Draw, giving him Point-Blank Volley would just make it more of a stomp. Giving him PBV, a flying boon, and Darting Blow would make him completely broken by the standards of non-lords.

While Petra also doesn't need a buff, I do agree that giving her a more relevant personal would be nice from a flavour perspective. While I might tone the crit boost down a little (+10 sounds good?), I like it: it would be only a modest boost to her performance as a wyvern or bow knight, but would make sword crit setups and Hunter's Volley crit setups more tempting for her, which fits her flavour. Plus it'd mean that we would get to hear her amazing crit quotes more often.

[Barren]

12 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Felix really doesn't need a buff. He already arguably outclasses all the "canon" archers at their jobs with his better stats and Heavy Draw, giving him Point-Blank Volley would just make it more of a stomp. Giving him PBV, a flying boon, and Darting Blow would make him completely broken by the standards of non-lords.

While Petra also doesn't need a buff, I do agree that giving her a more relevant personal would be nice from a flavour perspective. While I might tone the crit boost down a little (+10 sounds good?), I like it: it would be only a modest boost to her performance as a wyvern or bow knight, but would make sword crit setups and Hunter's Volley crit setups more tempting for her, which fits her flavour. Plus it'd mean that we would get to hear her amazing crit quotes more often.

I can understand why these kind of abilities would be way too good on Felix or any other non lord unit. I did think though that it was weird that the crest he bears is named after a female. Also fun fact: Enemy Felix in part 2 gets Darting Blow. That was why I thought he should get it. But everything else about what I suggested, I can see that it would be a bit much since he’s already white good. 
 

Though this would be a dream unit for anyone to use since this combination would have so much kill power.

 

I also don’t mind my crit+15 idea for Petra being toned down to +10. I was just throwing a number out there I thought would be safe. But hey we could witness more Brigid pride.

[Dark Holy Elf]

To be fair I do actually love your explanation for giving Felix Darting Blow. Just you'd probably want to tone down something else about him if you do that.

[Barren]

14 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To be fair I do actually love your explanation for giving Felix Darting Blow. Just you'd probably want to tone down something else about him if you do that.

Thinking on it now yea that is a good idea. I should consider that when I post ideas like these in the future. Still appreciate your feedback 😄