Edward FMA 2003 > Brotherhood Edward

[♠Soul♠]

He looks so much cooler in 2003...

2003 anime:

Brotherhood

[Etrurian emperor]

I dunno. I kinda liked how Ed looked in Brotherhood. It was really neat to see him grow from tiny sprout to normal sized person, and it happened so gradually many people might not have even noticed. 

[Punished Dayni]

I feel like this is not the fairest image comparison to compare with.

I was expecting a take on Edward and how he handles the events in FMAA and how those are better than FMAB, dangit all.

[Ottservia]

Or Y’know you could just read the manga instead

[♠Soul♠]

naw he looks fucken badass in the 2003 anime and in all the promotional art

[♠Soul♠]

Can we also talk about how edsgdetghsdrfgsrgesfrsfafea Sloth looked.

[♠Soul♠]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I dunno. I kinda liked how Ed looked in Brotherhood. It was really neat to see him grow from tiny sprout to normal sized person, and it happened so gradually many people might not have even noticed. 

I mean yeah no yeah, he does look pretty cool there. Although, I never really felt like his height took from anything. If anything, being so short and so strong (physically and overall capibility) made it even more of a statement.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, the actual real soul said:

I mean yeah no yeah, he does look pretty cool there. Although, I never really felt like his height took from anything. If anything, being so short and so strong (physically and overall capibility) made it even more of a statement.

Then you'd probably like Asta in Black Clover: he's tiny, but because he's the only person without magic in a world where magic is used for everything, he's the only person who bothers with muscle training. 

[Punished Dayni]

Just now, vanguard333 said:

Then you'd probably like Asta in Black Clover: he's tiny, but because he's the only person without magic in a world where magic is used for everything, he's the only person who bothers with muscle training. 

I assume he also screams less later on.

Or screaming is part of his muscle training.

It's all I know about that show, sorry.

[Eltosian Kadath]

The 2003 anime has more compelling central themes than Brotherhood/Manga. Most notably about the 7 deadly sins being the sins of the alchemist against that most fundamental natural law, that in the end alchemists must endeavor to correct. Their greatest weakness being a confrontation with the genuine article adds to this, emphasizing how artificial this facsimile of success at human transmutation is.

 

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

I assume he also screams less later on.

Or screaming is part of his muscle training.

It's all I know about that show, sorry.

The screaming complaints are greatly exaggerated. The voice actor the studio hired for Asta had never done anything like this before, and since Asta, like a lot of shonen protagonists, is rather... energetic, he yelled a lot of his lines in the first couple of episodes, and it can be a bit grating in those couple of episodes. But the voice actor greatly improved very quickly. Honestly, most of the "Asta screaming" complaints nowadays are from people who either haven't watched the show at all or stopped after only the first two episodes.

It's a good show that sadly got unfairly bashed when it began.

EDIT: there's one clip in particular that I like to use to point out how Asta's voice acting improved (Asta is the short character with grey hair):

Spoiler

We're the Same! | Black Clover - YouTube

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by vanguard333

[Punished Dayni]

10 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

The screaming complaints are greatly exaggerated. The voice actor the studio hired for Asta had never done anything like this before, and since Asta, like a lot of shonen protagonists, is rather... energetic, he yelled a lot of his lines in the first couple of episodes, and it can be a bit grating in those couple of episodes. But the voice actor greatly improved very quickly. Honestly, most of the "Asta screaming" complaints nowadays are from people who either haven't watched the show at all or stopped after only the first two episodes.

I had heard it was less of a thing later on, but I found it funny to reference regardless.

At least it isn't shouting for 15 minutes straight or anything like that.

31 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The 2003 anime has more compelling central themes than Brotherhood/Manga. Most notably about the 7 deadly sins being the sins of the alchemist against that most fundamental natural law, that in the end alchemists must endeavor to correct. Their greatest weakness being a confrontation with the genuine article adds to this, emphasizing how artificial this facsimile of success at human transmutation is.

In a way, it's nice that it takes such a different turn vs. Brotherhood. Gives it a more distinct flavour, it shows the writers themselves were able to look at the work and see potential that Arakawa didn't.

I do think there's stuff FMAA does very well, especially around the latter half with the (and of course getting more time on Hughes and Shou's canon arcs), but it's hard for me to argue that its main villain does a better job than FMAB's does for instance and there's certain other things that happen I've never been much a fan of (I did watch FMAA before FMAB).

[EricaofRenais]

I liked the manga best and was lucky enough to be able to complete my set when my local library decided to sell their old set a couple years ago.  I need to go back and watch all the anime versions now that I have read what started it all. 

[Etrurian emperor]

26 minutes ago, Dayni said:

I do think there's stuff FMAA does very well, especially around the latter half with the (and of course getting more time on Hughes and Shou's canon arcs), but it's hard for me to argue that its main villain does a better job than FMAB's does for instance and there's certain other things that happen I've never been much a fan of (I did watch FMAA before FMAB).

From what I've heard most people would agree that neither Father nor Dante steal the show when compared to other villains. I can only really speak for Father but he's definitely among the least interesting members of Brotherhood's villain brigade. 

There are some stuff about him that I like. Him and Hohenheim really do have some sort of bond between each other and its an interesting touch that despite all his planning Father isn't actually entirely sure what he even wants. Its also interesting that his attempt to remove his emotion is something that's explicitly failed since he still has all the sins he supposedly got rid  of. But as far as personality goes he's just the boring ''must become perfect'' sort of villain. When he's first introduced Father shows more personality with him considering himself so much above everyone else that barely cares about anything, and he comes off as kinda silly. Ruffling Ed's hair, chatting about their dad and casually looking at his throne room getting wrecked with only mild annoyance. But this more comedic detachment is immediately dropped and never returns again. 

On the villain front its Bradly and to a lesser extend Envy and Pride that carried Brotherhood. 

[♠Soul♠]

Season 3 of the 2003 anime was insane.

[Punished Dayni]

I honestly prefer seeing FMAA in three arcs: each 17 episodes long, there's just enough going on in each and there's a satisfying endpoint before escalation after episodes 17 and 34. Though yeah the ending part of the actual Season 3 is indeed a wild ride.

And Lust alone is a hard Yes in FMAA's favour, but that's just obvious.

[♠Soul♠]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

I honestly prefer seeing FMAA in three arcs: each 17 episodes long, there's just enough going on in each and there's a satisfying endpoint before escalation after episodes 17 and 34. Though yeah the ending part of the actual Season 3 is indeed a wild ride.

And Lust alone is a hard Yes in FMAA's favour, but that's just obvious.

Why.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Dayni said:

I do think there's stuff FMAA does very well, especially around the latter half with the (and of course getting more time on Hughes and Shou's canon arcs), but it's hard for me to argue that its main villain does a better job than FMAB's does for instance and there's certain other things that happen I've never been much a fan of (I did watch FMAA before FMAB).

I can't really compare FMAA to FMAB as I've only watched the latter, but I do think that Father is rather underrated. I don't think he was particularly amazing as a villain, but he had a clear goal, there was a fair bit of depth to him, he was a proper antithesis to the main lesson of the series that Edward needs to learn, and he was a serious threat to the characters: it took two armies, several alchemists, and one of his own homunculi to bring him down to a level where Ed could defeat him (and he was brought down through intelligence in addition to teamwork).

Again, I haven't seen FMAA, but from what I've heard about the main villain in that show, she really doesn't sound very interesting. Unsettling, definitely (I always find intentional body-swapping very creepy). But not interesting. Father had a massive inferiority-superiority complex: ultimately he wanted what humans had: freedom and friendship, but his ego led him to cast it all aside and try to fill that hole by becoming "perfect" in his eyes: seeking ultimate knowledge and power in an attempt to elevate himself. He seemed like a blank slate because he threw away parts of his personality and put them into the homunculi in attempt to make himself perfect; an effort which just left him blank and still carrying the seven deadly sins he tried to cast out because he didn't truly overcome them. As a result, the homunculi and the depth that they have help convey his hidden depths as a character: Greed just wanting friends, Wrath being bitter and disillusioned with the world, Envy being envious of humans and their companionship, etc. When you think about it, it's actually very compelling. From what I've heard about Dante, however, she just sounds like a vain and petty character that just wants to live forever, which is fine, but not nearly as compelling, especially for a main villain in a show that explores a lot about humanity. Anyone who's seen FMAA can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this. 

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

There are some stuff about him that I like. Him and Hohenheim really do have some sort of bond between each other and its an interesting touch that despite all his planning Father isn't actually entirely sure what he even wants. Its also interesting that his attempt to remove his emotion is something that's explicitly failed since he still has all the sins he supposedly got rid  of. But as far as personality goes he's just the boring ''must become perfect'' sort of villain. When he's first introduced Father shows more personality with him considering himself so much above everyone else that barely cares about anything, and he comes off as kinda silly. Ruffling Ed's hair, chatting about their dad and casually looking at his throne room getting wrecked with only mild annoyance. But this more comedic detachment is immediately dropped and never returns again. 

The reason that stuff is dropped is because he only has that aspect of his personality because he had reabsorbed Greed; it never appears again because he put Greed in Ling. Each of the Homunculi are components of his original personality: their depths are his as well in a sense, minus the depth they have that came from them as individuals. He chats about Hohenheim because, in a way, Hohenheim was the closest thing he ever had to a friend, and what was Greed's true desire: friends. 

Another thing I find interesting is that his assessment of Truth and the reason body parts are taken away from those who enter the Gate is in fact wrong (or at least incomplete). He understands that one component of it is to punish them for getting arrogant with their alchemy and trying to play God, but he thinks, due to his contempt, that it's to give them "proper despair" i.e. simply to put them down. As Ed points out, that can't be it because Roy's eyes got taken and Roy was forced through the Gate. What Truth actually wanted was for them to recognize that they're still human, and value those that they still have:

1. Ed loses the leg he stands on (his support) and needs to be supported by Winry
2. Al depends on his brother for nutrition, rest and maintenance
3. Izumi, who lost her child, depends on her husband to keep moving forward
4. Roy, who had been blinded by revenge for the death of Hughes until being snapped out of it by Riza, loses his eyes and now literally needs her to see (rather than just metaphorically)

When Ed offers his Gate to get Al back, Truth is shocked, first asks him if he's really willing to lower himself, and then asks if he's really willing to give up his alchemy (to which Ed hears everyone waiting for him and Al to return and says, "I don't need alchemy; I have them") and it's only after that that Truth says, "Yes! That's the correct answer!" The fact that Father not only fails to see the lesson component but also completely fails to realize the value-of-companionship component is really interesting. He failed to the answer that was right in front of him indeed. 

[indigoasis]

I honestly love 2003 so much. FMA was the very first anime that I've ever seen, and I've watched both versions of the series, as well as both movies (and I've also read a large chunk of the manga, so hopefully that should establish my credibility, haha). Each version has their merits and flaws, but I can't help but adore 2003 for it's overall darker tone. While the artstyles are generally reminiscent of each other, I do actually the somewhat grittier look of 2003 (although that may just be because of when it was made, I dunno). 

To get into spoilers for the end of 2003, there are two things that I wanna mention:

Spoiler

For starters, this scene:

Spoiler

 

Probably one of my favorite fight scenes in anime. The animation is super fluid, and the end of the fight is a scary thing to witness if you're not prepared for it. By the end, each brother made a sacrifice for the other, and it's honestly super sweet.

Next, the actual ending of the 2003 series.

Conqueror of Shamballa was a pretty solid movie imo, and it's ending is a satisfying (to me), yet bittersweet conclusion. I know quite a few people didn't like how it ended, but I loved it. It taught me that not everything can be sunshine and rainbows for everyone (which is sort of the direction Brotherhood took [with the happier ending, I mean]; I have nothing against it's ending whatsoever, I just prefer how 2003 ended), and that people have to make personal sacrifices sometimes for the wellbeing of everyone. While it's sad that Ed and Winry couldn't be together in the end, Al crossing over worlds to be with his brother was honestly so touching. 

It's probably just something that I like, but I really enjoy stories that don't necessarily end with the best possible ending, where struggles and hardships have their consequences. Bittersweet is probably the word I'm looking for, and 2003 is a prime example of that.

Also, with the whole deal of parallel worlds, it wouldn't surprise me if Ed had found a parallel Winry, which is sort of my head canon for what happens after the movie's conclusion.

It's also one of the few anime where I would recommend the dub over the sub. I experienced the series through dub, so maybe I'm a tad biased, but it's still really good.

Edit: Almost forgot, seeing how much Ed and Al have grown over the time-skip is one of my favorite things, which reminds me of a scrapped mechanic from Wind Waker where Link would have slowly grown over the course of the game; that honestly would have been such a cool feature, and I hope to see it implemented in a future Zelda game someday.

Edited November 27, 2020 by indigoasis

[Punished Dayni]

2 minutes ago, the actual real soul said:

Why.

It's a consequence of watching FMAA after it finished and me just taking the way the show was laid out differently to how it was intended. Entirely a personal way of looking at the show.

Spoiler

Episode 17 being right before the events leading to Marcoh's death (though his being captured is before), the burning of the library and the fifth laboratory, the story starts to really escalate past this point.

Right after 34 are the episodes that lead to Lior being used as a philosopher's stone and getting to know the last few homunculai as well as Lust as a character, but before that is the resolution of Greed and establishing Izumi's arcs (as well as introducing Wrath) and the introduction of Dante, who becomes more important in the last arc

2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

can't really compare FMAA to FMAB as I've only watched the latter, but I do think that Father is rather underrated. I don't think he was particularly amazing as a villain, but he had a clear goal, there was a fair bit of depth to him, he was a proper antithesis to the main lesson of the series that Edward needs to learn, and he was a serious threat to the characters: it took two armies, several alchemists, and one of his own homunculi to bring him down to a level where Ed could defeat him (and he was brought down through intelligence in addition to teamwork).

Again, I haven't seen FMAA, but from what I've heard about the main villain in that show, she really doesn't sound very interesting. Unsettling, definitely (I always find intentional body-swapping very creepy). But not interesting. Father had a massive inferiority-superiority complex: ultimately he wanted what humans had: freedom and friendship, but his ego led him to cast it all aside and try to fill that hole by becoming "perfect" in his eyes: seeking ultimate knowledge and power in an attempt to elevate himself. He seemed like a blank slate because he threw away parts of his personality and put them into the homunculi in attempt to make himself perfect; an effort which just left him blank and still carrying the seven deadly sins he tried to cast out because he didn't truly overcome them. As a result, the homunculi and the depth that they have help convey his hidden depths as a character: Greed just wanting friends, Wrath being bitter and disillusioned with the world, Envy being envious of humans and their companionship, etc. When you think about it, it's actually very compelling. From what I've heard about Dante, however, she just sounds like a vain and petty character that just wants to live forever, which is fine, but not nearly as compelling, especially for a main villain in a show that explores a lot about humanity. Anyone who's seen FMAA can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this. 

Dante does have some things (Vague spoilers)

Spoiler

There's the origins of Pride in FMAA (which is very different is you don't know), her relationship with Hohenheim in this version, how she has gathered these disgruntled being in the homunculi and brought them to her side for what is a selfish goal and they had far less reason (in truth, though she does promise them much besides) to do so than in FMAB.

I still think Father was better, but he also got more time at the centre of things.

[♠Soul♠]

20 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

I honestly love 2003 so much. FMA was the very first anime that I've ever seen, and I've watched both versions of the series, as well as both movies (and I've also read a large chunk of the manga, so hopefully that should establish my credibility, haha). Each version has their merits and flaws, but I can't help but adore 2003 for it's overall darker tone. While the artstyles are generally reminiscent of each other, I do actually the somewhat grittier look of 2003 (although that may just be because of when it was made, I dunno). 

To get into spoilers for the end of 2003, there are two things that I wanna mention:

  Reveal hidden contents

For starters, this scene:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Probably one of my favorite fight scenes in anime. The animation is super fluid, and the end of the fight is a scary thing to witness if you're not prepared for it. By the end, each brother made a sacrifice for the other, and it's honestly super sweet.

Next, the actual ending of the 2003 series.

Conqueror of Shamballa was a pretty solid movie imo, and it's ending is a satisfying (to me), yet bittersweet conclusion. I know quite a few people didn't like how it ended, but I loved it. It taught me that not everything can be sunshine and rainbows for everyone (which is sort of the direction Brotherhood took [with the happier ending, I mean]; I have nothing against it's ending whatsoever, I just prefer how 2003 ended), and that people have to make personal sacrifices sometimes for the wellbeing of everyone. While it's sad that Ed and Winry couldn't be together in the end, Al crossing over worlds to be with his brother was honestly so touching. 

It's probably just something that I like, but I really enjoy stories that don't necessarily end with the best possible ending, where struggles and hardships have their consequences. Bittersweet is probably the word I'm looking for, and 2003 is a prime example of that.

Also, with the whole deal of parallel worlds, it wouldn't surprise me if Ed had found a parallel Winry, which is sort of my head canon for what happens after the movie's conclusion.

It's also one of the few anime where I would recommend the dub over the sub. I experienced the series through dub, so maybe I'm a tad biased, but it's still really good.

Edit: Almost forgot, seeing how much Ed and Al have grown over the time-skip is one of my favorite things, which reminds me of a scrapped mechanic from Wind Waker where Link would have slowly grown over the course of the game; that honestly would have been such a cool feature, and I hope to see it implemented in a future Zelda game someday.

2003 was also one of my first real anime, and I'm not counting stuff like DBZ (since everyone and their mother pretty much saw it). I started watching it again before yesterday, and I still feel it holds up. There's also another really good thing about this anime, and that's the OPs and EDs. Amazing music I listen to this day. And talking about OPs, the first one ("Melissa") is one of my lesser favourites, but the song is still very catchy and hard to skip.

[♠Soul♠]

14 minutes ago, Dayni said:

It's a consequence of watching FMAA after it finished and me just taking the way the show was laid out differently to how it was intended. Entirely a personal way of looking at the show.

  Reveal hidden contents

Episode 17 being right before the events leading to Marcoh's death (though his being captured is before), the burning of the library and the fifth laboratory, the story starts to really escalate past this point.

Right after 34 are the episodes that lead to Lior being used as a philosopher's stone and getting to know the last few homunculai as well as Lust as a character, but before that is the resolution of Greed and establishing Izumi's arcs (as well as introducing Wrath) and the introduction of Dante, who becomes more important in the last arc

Dante does have some things (Vague spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

There's the origins of Pride in FMAA (which is very different is you don't know), her relationship with Hohenheim in this version, how she has gathered these disgruntled being in the homunculi and brought them to her side for what is a selfish goal and they had far less reason (in truth, though she does promise them much besides) to do so than in FMAB.

I still think Father was better, but he also got more time at the centre of things.

I mean why Lust.

[vanguard333]

38 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

I honestly love 2003 so much. FMA was the very first anime that I've ever seen

Funny; FMAB was the very second anime that I've seen (the first being One-Punch Man unless you count Spider Riders: an animated show made jointly by a Japanese animation studio and a Canadian animation studio). 

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, the actual real soul said:

I mean why Lust.

Because Lust and what FMAA does with her is handled much better than in Brotherhood, makes for thoughts on what might have been with FMAB and to some extent the manga.

I'm curous then your thoughts on Lust based on that question.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Radiant Dawn Edward > Anything Else Edward