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SRPG Tryhard

Theme of Conquest

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Just now, Armchair General said:

Whoever devotes enough energy to argue over the plot.

right, fair, the quote made it tick instantly as 'mod is mad user is being shithead, lmao mod is trolled' even though i don't expect that behavior from you, apologies

 

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

Granted, the story deserves to be analyzed, but I'm in the "seen it all" crowd

i disagree with this fully. while some of us are absolutely manchildren who are, for some reason, choosing to die on Fates: Conquest's story as their hill, there are still teenagers who get tossed into it and argue about it online and That's Completely Fine.

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I expend more energy going to the bathroom than typing out whatever's in this thread.  It's a nice distraction from the actual things in life that have consequences and all.

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FWIW, I think the plot of Conquest is kind of great on it's own, especially when it's compared to Awakening. But after the big revelation over Garon being a monster, the suspense has started to slowly die out, for me.

But killing Hans and Iago was worth it!

Edited by Armchair General

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I'm not sure I'd call portraying a theme fairly straight as "genius." It's always fun to realize a theme and find evidence to support it, but calling it genius requires a little more substantial argument. Just uncovering that there is a theme is not what makes writing genius, if it is that. Any theme you can uncover legitimately is going to have evidence in the writing - if it didn't, it... wouldn't... be a theme. What about the portrayal makes it deserve applause outside of 'hey, I like that theme'? You're obviously reacting strongly to something, but just saying 'there is a theme and I like this theme' is not genius, even if it's perfectly fine to appreciate. 

You likely could argue support for an underlying theme in the story about hatred being the catalyst for suffering, or some such, but again, it'd be a hard sell for me to claim that the delivery of said themes is really worth such hefty praise.

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Don't you see Fates:Conquest is the perfect game any and all 'flaws' in its writing are just the misconceptions of ignoramuses too heinously foolish to understand the masterpiece that is Fates:Conquest. Yes I AM a Redditor. 

Anyhow, I never found conquest to be all that bad, but I don't think that it has a hidden genius with its theme. I do think that Nohr's motivation (not Slime!Garons, but the general reason Nohrians would hate Hoshidans) is valid (even though Rigel did it first). 

anyway, Thracia 776 covers a theme of hatred way better than conq does imo

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6 hours ago, SRPG Tryhard said:

There's no overlooking any of the minor flaws. Most of them have been debunked as myths or misunderstood by people who didn't try hard enough to understand the game anyway. But the game still is brilliant. Not sure why those "flaws" are relevant to the topic of its theme though. 

Unless you mean to say this theme I am trying to decipher is what you call a flaw because you dislike it? Go on.

This kind of logic is close minded. Cause by that logic, no story is bad because 1 person sees that it's great and can argue "X reason makes it good"

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Regardless, neither of these show a loss of agency by him, which is why I'm holding Garon accountable for all that he's done.

The Revelation path hid the truth that Garon isn't in control of his body so players would have to pay money to find the truth in the other paths. In Revelation there is no hint, in Birthright it's implied at the ending (Garon is not in control of his body), and Conquest confirms he isn't through the Empty Vessel. Apparently Intelligent Systems thinks that was very smart.

(Money hungry Intelligent Systems..."for just 20 more dollars you can discover the truth😁")

1 hour ago, Integrity said:

you did not seriously just copy and paste your shitty analysis post, from the thread i locked, to spark literally the same discussion, to get around the lock, did you

 

like my eyes are deceiving me right

Is there a problem with this thread sir? The rules basically say that discussions are fine as long as it doesn't get toxic right? I think we're all trying to be respectful here.

Edited by Fates-Blade

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4 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

The Revelation path hid the truth that Garon isn't in control of his body so players would have to pay money to find the truth in the other paths. In Revelation there is no hint, in Birthright it's implied at the ending (Garon is not in control of his body), and Conquest confirms he isn't through the Empty Vessel. Apparently Intelligent Systems thinks that was very smart.

(Money hungry Intelligent Systems..."for just 20 more dollars you can find the truth😁")

. . .I have no idea what you're saying.  At all.  Because Garon would need to be fully in control of himself for the Revelation thing to make any sort of sense.

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8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .I have no idea what you're saying.  At all.  Because Garon would need to be fully in control of himself for the Revelation thing to make any sort of sense.

  • Garon: I serve the great Anankos! Of course I would come when called. It seems that Gunter proved a poor conduit for the Silent Dragon, however. A pity—I thought that having him cast into Valla would be enough... Anankos! Use me to channel your mighty power, instead! Join with me, and together we can rule this pitiful world!
  • Anankos: Ha... Hahaha... HAHAHA! You think too much of yourself, worm!

This is Garon's demon who wants Anankos's power, human Garon isn't in control but is alive in the body.

Demon Garon has free will like human Garon.

Birthright had no hint the demon served someone, Conquest hints the demon serves someone, Revelation confirms the demon serves Anankos.

Again, IS's money thing.

Edited by Fates-Blade

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6 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:
  • I serve the great Anankos! Of course I would come when called. It seems that Gunter proved a poor conduit for the Silent Dragon, however. A pity—I thought that having him cast into Valla would be enough... Anankos! Use me to channel your mighty power, instead! Join with me, and together we can rule this pitiful world!
  • Anankos: Ha... Hahaha... HAHAHA! You think too much of yourself, worm!

This is Garon's demon who wants Anankos's power, human Garon isn't in control.

Demon Garon has free will like human Garon.

Birthright had no hint the demon served someone, Conquest hints the demon servs someone, Revelation confirms the demon serves Anankos.

Again, IS's money thing.

. . .and why can't human Garon say anything like that?

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8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .and why can't human Garon say anything like that?

. . .Because Conquest confirms he isn't in control of his body.

Edited by Fates-Blade

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13 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Because he was an nice, loving polygamist before Elise was born

Exactly, that was human Garon. That's why at the end of Conquest Xander is willing to fight demon Garon, because he realized human Garon was not in control. the story even says at the end they hoped they saved human Garon by killing demon Garon at the end.

  • Xander: ...Rest in peace, Father.
  • Corrin: Xander... We did the right thing. I know in my heart this was the only way to save him. I just wish...I could have gotten to know the real Garon. Good-bye...Father... ...
Edited by Fates-Blade

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12 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

Exactly, that was human Garon. That's why at the end of Conquest Xander is willing to fight demon Garon, because he realized human Garon was not in control. the story even says at the end they hoped they saved human Garon by killing demon Garon at the end.

  • Xander: ...Rest in peace, Father.
  • Corrin: Xander... We did the right thing. I know in my heart this was the only way to save him. I just wish...I could have gotten to know the real Garon. Good-bye...Father... ...

I think it was in one of Elise's supports. Probably with Leo.

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Hatred being bad is a little weak to hang an entire game on without really exploring the theme and all the ways hate infects or twists people.

I feels like, based on how Conquest handled it, they made an entire game out of the kind of character gimmick you'd get in a support chain.

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17 minutes ago, Graal said:

Hatred being bad is a little weak to hang an entire game on without really exploring the theme and all the ways hate infects or twists people.

I feels like, based on how Conquest handled it, they made an entire game out of the kind of character gimmick you'd get in a support chain.

Who can forget the "Justice is an illusion" line towards the end?

 

Of course, it never came up when it needed to, three chapters later. But it meant something when Xander said in the capital city of Hoshido.

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2 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

Is there a problem with this thread sir? The rules basically say that discussions are fine as long as it doesn't get toxic right? I think we're all trying to be respectful here.

let me put a hypothetical situation before you op:

 

you roll into a thread after a big thanksgiving dinner; a guy has been starting fights with a buncha cunts and people are reporting the thread to you on discord and on the real report system, so you take a moment to close the thread so you can read it and evaluate what needs to happen, and you put into that post that you're evaluating and will report or possibly just reopen the thread depending on what you find, yeah?

 

you then don't operate fast enough, thanks to a big thanksgiving dinner, and said guy literally posts his final post nobody got to respond to in the thread because you locked it to a new thread so that people can respond to it.

 

it doesn't break the rules, technically, you're correct. it is, however, exceptionally shitty to do, particularly since op's posts, which he pasted into this thread to restart discussion after i shut it down, were a large part of the reason the previous thread got toxic.

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2 hours ago, Fates-Blade said:

(Money hungry Intelligent Systems..."for just 20 more dollars you can discover the truth😁")

or look it up online for free, lol

22 minutes ago, Integrity said:

it doesn't break the rules, technically, you're correct. it is, however, exceptionally shitty to do, particularly since op's posts, which he pasted into this thread to restart discussion after i shut it down, were a large part of the reason the previous thread got toxic.

I didn't even know there was a previous thread. Couldn't you shut this thread down since there's evidence that the topic could potentially cause a flame war or whatever? I wouldn't want either event happening, I'm just simply curious.

And that hypothetical sounds way too real to be hypothetical, haha. Hopefully your Thanksgiving dinner wasn't ruined because of it or anything.

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5 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

I didn't even know there was a previous thread. Couldn't you shut this thread down since there's evidence that the topic could potentially cause a flame war or whatever? I wouldn't want either event happening, I'm just simply curious.

i could, but despite op's general intellectual dishonesty, people have generally seemed interested in discussing this topic, so i've left it open with the intent to watch it like a hawk

never let it be said i just ban people for doing shit i don't like

6 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

And that hypothetical sounds way too real to be hypothetical, haha. Hopefully your Thanksgiving dinner wasn't ruined because of it or anything.

i'm very good at separating this from my real life, but i do appreciate your concern. all's good.

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44 minutes ago, Integrity said:

let me put a hypothetical situation before you op:

 

you roll into a thread after a big thanksgiving dinner; a guy has been starting fights with a buncha cunts and people are reporting the thread to you on discord and on the real report system, so you take a moment to close the thread so you can read it and evaluate what needs to happen, and you put into that post that you're evaluating and will report or possibly just reopen the thread depending on what you find, yeah?

 

you then don't operate fast enough, thanks to a big thanksgiving dinner, and said guy literally posts his final post nobody got to respond to in the thread because you locked it to a new thread so that people can respond to it.

 

it doesn't break the rules, technically, you're correct. it is, however, exceptionally shitty to do, particularly since op's posts, which he pasted into this thread to restart discussion after i shut it down, were a large part of the reason the previous thread got toxic.

You've could've locked the thread and said "This is shitshow. I haven't banned anyone yet. But thread is locked because it is shitshow and I'm too busy to sift through it."

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4 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

You've could've locked the thread and said "This is shitshow. I haven't banned anyone yet. But thread is locked because it is shitshow and I'm too busy to sift through it."

i totally coulda

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Takes me back to when I was accosted by a whole forum.

But not the admins.

And I didn't make the thread.

And I was called disingenuous for a position I never stated.

And said forum had a reputation for being biased on the subject.

And nobody was ballsy enough to just directly confront so I just cut my losses.

All in all, not much like this situation.

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Haha wow an actual moderator and admin throwing insults because they don't like what people are discussing. After they were proven wrong about what is happening in the game as others already proved by citing in game text. 

And they DID derail the thread with insults as soon as they started losing the argument. Like babies that are throwing a tantrum when they don't get what they want. None of the reports for literal insults are going through of course, why would they, the mod can insult people and get away with it.

No, Integrity, the thread is not a shitshow. It is YOU who is intolerant and toxic.

Edited by SRPG Tryhard

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I'm not gonna bother this time but I will say again, since I got ignored... big surprise.

A game's story being liked by one person does not automatically make it "perfect". That's absurd in so many ways I cant even begin to describe it. 

That also doesnt "prove" anything either.

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now this is some hardcore trolling

anyway, trying to seriously participate to the discussion, i think it's every good writer's job to convey messages with his/her best writing capabilities, so i'm not really sure what part of Conquest's symbolism is supposed to be as brilliant as you're saying: the way i see it, either every good writer in the world is a genious, or, much more likely, Conquest isn't all that genius in its symbolism

also, i could argue genius is something extremely subjective, even more so in internet discussions, where words are often misinterpreted and decontextualized

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