Favorite villains or villain tropes?

[Ottservia]

Villains are great. There’s nothing like a good villain to really challenge our protagonists and create interesting conflicts. So az the title suggests what are your favorite type of villains? Or just villain tropes?

Some of mine are:

villian who is essentially just a twisted parallel of the MC

Huge apocalyptic threats meant to punish humanity for some kind of sin that are so absurdly powerful that they’re only talked about in legend. The mere mention of their name is enough to send shockwaves of terror through the entire room.

Pure evil villains who are just straight up assholes who are evil for evil’s sake: you know the type. They’re evil and they know it but they don’t care. They’re doing all this for shits and giggles.

Basically any kind of rival character.

 

[Yexin]

it might be a bit too vauge, but i really like when villains are just as right in what they're doing as the heroes, or when they're pursuing a goal that is perceived as the best one not just for them, but also for everyone else, so that i question whether i'm doing the right thing opposing them or not

i also like villains who are evil for the sake of being evil, but in that case charisma and character design play a much bigger role for me

[vanguard333]

Some of my Favourite Villain Tropes (note that I'll be using the names that TV Tropes uses for these tropes):

1. Knight of Cerebus: This is a villain whose very presence darkens the atmosphere and tone of the scenes they're in; a villain whose first appearance acts as a catalyst for the show drastically changing in mood from relatively lighthearted and comedic towards the dark and dramatic. These villains usually do so through an action that leaves an impact on audiences: being the first villain the hero loses against on their first attempt, being the first villain to kill off a major character, etc. 

Examples include the following (note that these are not necessarily my favourite villains; I just think they're good examples):

1. The Black Knight from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. His first major action in the story (beside ensuring Petrine's retreat) is killing Greil in a duel. From there, the Black Knight continues to haunt the heroes like a nightmare: his every appearance having him do something terrifying and effective up until the final confrontation between him and Ike.
2. General Grievous (I kid you not) from the 2003 Star Wars Clone Wars 2D micro-series created by Tartakovsky. Because of Revenge of the Sith and especially the 2008 Clone Wars cartoon, Grievous is often remembered as a cowardly Saturday-Morning Cartoon villain. His debut in the Star Wars franchise was very different: his introduction had him decimating a Clone Army off-screen and maneuvering the seven surviving Jedi into a corner before deciding to fight them himself to grant them "a warrior's death." Using pragmatism and behaving almost more like a hunter than a fighter, he proceeds to defeat all seven Jedi; killing four of them. He would prove to be a terrifying figure to the Jedi; his last appearance having him capture the Chancellor almost single-handedly; defeating three terrified Jedi and killing two in the process; leaving the last one alive only to tell the others what happened. His loss in badassery going into ROTS ultimately got explained by Mace Windu arriving too late, but succeeding in crushing Grievous' lungs with the Force. 
3. Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War. I'm just going to say that you probably know why he's on this list. 

Oh, and these are far from the only examples; this is a very popular trope, and for good reason. I think it should be obvious why I like these sorts of villains as villains: they're scary and effective. 

Knight of Cerebus - TV Tropes

 

2. From Nobody to Nightmare: Villains can have all kinds of origin stories, and some villains don't necessarily even need a backstory to be effective. This is the type of villain whose backstory has them start out as a societal nobody; someone most people in the setting never looked twice at, only for them to become someone that would haunt most people's nightmares. These villains are usually also a Knight of Cerebus, but with the added bonus of being the villainous counterpart of a peasant-turned-hero story. 

Examples include the following:

1. Darth Vader from Star Wars. Born a slave kid on the remote desert planet of Tatooine, grew up to become the 2nd most feared man in the galaxy and a truly threatening villain to the heroes of the story.
2. Nagato from Naruto. Born just some kid in the Hidden Rain Village: a tiny, struggling nation that was suffering from being used as the battlefield in a proxy war between the shinobi villages of the five great nations. His parents were killed by leaf shinobi who had mistaken them for enemies, and he was left on the streets until he found his best friend Yahiko: an idealistic kid who eventually formed a group known as the Akatsuki to bring peace to the Hidden Rain. Because his efforts were an obstacle to the proxy war, Yahiko was killed. Outraged, Nagato took on the name Pain, took over the Hidden Rain village, and founded the new Akatsuki: this time consisting of the most dangerous rogue ninja in the Naruto universe. He still sought to bring peace to the world as Yahiko did, but now he sought to do so through mutually-assured destruction: ending the cycles of hate and revenge by making everyone share the same pain (hence his name). Interestingly, he's not the only From-Nobody-to-Nightmare villain in the Naruto universe; there's also Tobi (but I want to limit this to one example per series to keep this from getting too long, which it arguably already is).
3. Syndrome from The Incredibles. Originally just a superhero fanboy, he became disillusioned after a misunderstanding and became a weapons-developer who systematically killed almost all the old superheroes to make a weapon only he would be able to defeat.

I like these kinds of villains because I find them a lot more compelling; they don't inherit an evil empire or anything like that; they became what they are through the very things that now make them a serious threat. It also helps that they usually have a point to make about the society they live in; a point that can sometimes raise questions about our own societies, but is still narratively interesting even if it doesn't. For example, when Pain attacks the Hidden Leaf Village (Naruto's hometown), both Naruto and the leader of the village ask Pain what gives him any right to talk of peace when he's outright attacking the village, has killed people that they care about, and is destroying the peace that the village has worked to establish. Pain responds by asking what right any of the five great nations have to talk of peace when their peace is maintained through proxy wars that leave smaller nations to suffer, and what gives the hidden leaf village in particular the right to talk of peace when they killed almost everyone he ever cared about.

EDIT: Another interesting note is that, while it is normally a villain trope, there are heroic examples of From Nobody to Nightmare, but they're rare. Ike would be an example: starting out a common mercenary in the rural parts of Crimea, but by Radiant Dawn becoming a legendary hero that is (rightly) very feared on the battlefield. 

From Nobody to Nightmare - TV Tropes

Edited November 29, 2020 by vanguard333

[Lightcosmo]

9 hours ago, Ottservia said:

villian who is essentially just a twisted parallel of the MC

 

*Sephiroth intensifies* 

[Jotari]

I'd like to see more younger villains. I get why villains are commonly older than the protagonists, you want your villain to be established in the world with power to serve as a threat. And you want your protagonist to be naive and unaware of the world. In a larger sense themeatically overcoming a villain who is older is following the right path as opposed to the wrong path the villain took or removing the old order of the world and replacing it with a new future. But damnit all there's some fun and interesting things you can do with young villains too. I've considered making I a trope for some time now. Youthful Upstart is what I'd call it. Characters who represent a chaotic future with their ambition and unpredictability, threatening to upset the stability of the present in the thematic sense. Perhaps my favourite villain in all fiction is Steerpike from Gormenghast who represents what I'm talking about quite well. Unfortunately I can't really think of enough examples to get away with adding it to TV tropes.

[vanguard333]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, Jotari said:

I'd like to see more younger villains. I get why villains are commonly older than the protagonists, you want your villain to be established in the world with power to serve as a threat. And you want your protagonist to be naive and unaware of the world. In a larger sense thematically overcoming a villain who is older is following the right path as opposed to the wrong path the villain took or removing the old order of the world and replacing it with a new future. But damnit all there's some fun and interesting things you can do with young villains too. I've considered making I a trope for some time now. Youthful Upstart is what I'd call it. Characters who represent a chaotic future with their ambition and unpredictability, threatening to upset the stability of the present in the thematic sense. Perhaps my favourite villain in all fiction is Steerpike from Gormenghast who represents what I'm talking about quite well. Unfortunately I can't really think of enough examples to get away with adding it to TV tropes.

There's Patry from Black Clover. He's older than the protagonist (the protagonist is 15/16 while he's chronologically over 500 years old, but his soul was dormant for 500 years so he's really only somewhere around 24), but he is younger than most of his opponents and he represents a chaotic future (he wants to kill an entire kingdom as revenge for a crime the royal family's ancestors committed upon his people). 

EDIT: There's also Syndrome from The Incredibles, as he's younger than Mr. Incredible.

By the way, what do you think of the villain tropes I mentioned?

Edited November 30, 2020 by vanguard333

[Sidereal Wraith]

Kane from Karl Edward Wagner’s Kane series. Even though he is the main character, Kane often ends up becoming the main villain in many of the stories.

[null]

A few that come to mind (and the tropes associated with them) are

• Majora (for being an evil demon mask that has no other reason to be evil than just being evil). It's crazy, nonsensical, and just plain fun and intimidating as a concept for a villain.
• Akito Sohma (from Fruits Basket). Someone who makes the lives of others around her miserable while suffering herself with everything she's experienced. She has backstory, motivations, and depth. A very good character.
• Edelgard (as an antagonist). Although I see Edelgard as an anti-hero, I think she makes for a very compelling counterpart to Dimitri as a protagonist. She has very good reasons to take the actions that she does, even if the methods she uses are less than ideal and outright immoral in several cases.
• Ashera. She's not a complex character, but the idea of fighting against a god about to cast judgment on the world is fantastic. And the fight itself is the best and most challenging in the entire series.

I also agree with some of the others mentioned above. Good picks.

Edited November 28, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Sooks]

Sympathetic villains, I find they add a lot of depth. It’s nice when the villains believe in what they’re doing to be good or right and not evil or know what they’re doing is wrong but thinks it serves a purpose other than fueling their sadism. That helps me get immersed in a story and, imo, usually makes the villains better characters (usually).

[AnonymousSpeed]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

In a larger sense themeatically overcoming a villain who is older is following the right path as opposed to the wrong path the villain took or removing the old order of the world and replacing it with a new future.

Kinda funny since heroes almost always enforce the status quo. If not that of their world, then that of the author's world.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Kinda funny since heroes almost always enforce the status quo. If not that of their world, then that of the author's world.

To some extent, but to some extent not as well. Almost all stories with a villain in it is going to have the villain representing some ill in society that must be over come.

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

To some extent, but to some extent not as well. Almost all stories with a villain in it is going to have the villain representing some ill in society that must be over come.

An ill which real society is very comfortably past or solidly agrees is bad.

[eclipse]

I want a villain that I can understand.  Don't necessary have to sympathize with them, but if I can see why they went that way, it's enough for me.

[ciphertul]

Personally my favorites are Villains who are only villains do to conflicting ideal or Villains who are villains for the greater good. You know playing the villain. The first 2 antagonist of Witchcraft Work are that, the moment when a main villain goes around taking out other villains is just a hell of a move

[vanguard333]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, Jotari said:

I'd like to see more younger villains. I get why villains are commonly older than the protagonists, you want your villain to be established in the world with power to serve as a threat. And you want your protagonist to be naive and unaware of the world. In a larger sense themeatically overcoming a villain who is older is following the right path as opposed to the wrong path the villain took or removing the old order of the world and replacing it with a new future. But damnit all there's some fun and interesting things you can do with young villains too. I've considered making I a trope for some time now. Youthful Upstart is what I'd call it. Characters who represent a chaotic future with their ambition and unpredictability, threatening to upset the stability of the present in the thematic sense. Perhaps my favourite villain in all fiction is Steerpike from Gormenghast who represents what I'm talking about quite well. Unfortunately I can't really think of enough examples to get away with adding it to TV tropes.

I just found out: this trope already has a page in TV Tropes:

Older Hero vs. Younger Villain - TV Tropes

[Trycex]

The villans who were heroes in the past(maybe living legends) but eventually they found that the wolrd/universe where lived is broken or is a never ending cycle of problems, so they believe that there only one way to fix all the problems... They become in Tyrants to bring order by force if necessary because they really believe that if they not doing that, nobody will do. Usually they still have "faith in the humanity" but not enough to let them free. When they lost that faith they will do the classic "i must destroy everything and make it again"

I like theses because:

1)They represent the frustation of "i saved the world, stop wars, saved little cats, find the cancer cure. And you still screw up?! Enough of this!

2)Because they were heroes that takes the "evil route" and to do the "necessary" usually are far more competent and an actual a threat that the villains wannabe or the generic tyrant because i am evil!

This only apply(at least to me) when became villains by it own rather than corruption. The corruption sometimes become too poorly or wash hands too easily.

Spoiler

 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FallenHero

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WellIntentionedExtremist

 

 

[Use the Falchion]

Villains who you can understand but don't necessarily sympathize with. Thanos, the Joker from The Dark Knight from a certain, twisted point of view, and Killmonger are good examples. But for villains like this to work, I need for my heroes to feel threatened by the villain. Not just their ideology, but their strength. The Joker threatens Batman because he's willing to go to lengths that Batman can't cross, and the only way to stop him is to break his rules; Thanos is scary because in a way he's right. Overpopulation and lack of resources are concerns we need to be aware of. (But he's also undeniably and horrifically wrong in his methodology and reasoning, along with being a psychopathic narcissist.) Killmonger is right about Wakanda's treatment of outsiders and their neutrality stance, but he's wrong about how to help. 

Some of the villains in My Hero Academia are the same. Hero Killer Stain is right about how certain heroes are only out for fame and glory and wealth, and how calling them heroes is probably the wrong thing; but Uraraka demonstrates how wanting to provide a better life through the path of a hero isn't necessarily a bad or a binary thing. Later LoV stuff delves into this even farther, but that's spoiler territory. 

 

 

Villains who are twisted versions of the heroes, but are also intimately familiar with the hero - basically villains or antagonists who straddle the line between friend and foe. Aaron Burr from Hamilton is a beautiful example to me. Aaron clearly respects Hamilton, and Hamilton sees Burr as a friend - one he doesn't understand or agree with, but a friend nonetheless. Their dynamic is so beautifully tragic. (Their historical relationship is far more muddy...)

In the same vein but inversely related, you've got Elphaba and Glinda from Wicked. They start as enemies, become friends, then respectful enemies, and finally reconcile before the end. 

Dimitri and Edelgard are a more tragic example. 

Dynamics that play between intimacy and animosity...there are some great stories there. There is a problem, however. Sometimes the switching of roles (from enemies to allies) can sometimes be far more engaging than where the stories says it's going to go. For example, I always found the early seasons of Smallville where Lex Luthor was an ally of Clark and a friend to the Kents far more engaging than most of the later seasons where he's a bad guy. The story needed him to go one way, but the more interesting path (to me) was in the other direction. 

 

 

I also like the "evil mentor" trope, but only if it's done well. Arrow Season 2, The Flash Season 1 (and 2 to a degree), Spider-Man: Far From Home, and several more play with that trope, and I enjoy it. 

 

 

Villains who are simply better than heroes. You've got to be careful about this one, or else it'll look like the heroes are only winning because they're the designated hero, or some other dues ex machina.  These are your villains against whom you measure your hero's growth, and the victory becomes that much more rewarding. The best examples I can think of off the top of my head are Jennifer Barkley from Parks & Rec, and Second Sister from Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order.

 

Lastly, villains who are straight-up evil. Sometimes you want the satisfaction of punching evil in the face. These types of villains provide that outlet.

[Venger_06]

I really like villains who have a personal connection to the hero(es) and anti-villains. One of my favorite tropes about the latter is the protagonist journey to villain, normally becoming Knight Templars. He who fights monsters indeed.

That's why, as someone pointed above, that Edelgard is such good character when portrayed as a foil to Dimitri. She works best as the villain of Three Houses.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Maof06

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Maof06 said:

That's why, as someone pointed above, that Edelgard is such good character when portrayed as a foil to Dimitri. She works best as the villain of Three Houses.

On paper I'd say, but in practice she doesn't really do much as an actual villain outside the ending of Part 1.

[Venger_06]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

On paper I'd say, but in practice she doesn't really do much as an actual villain outside the ending of Part 1.

Even though she doesn't show up very much, she's still a shadow of the past for Dimitri on his route, and honestly I believe that only Azure Moon has a good story in 3H and the other routes are only there to serve as lore dumpers.