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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Coincidentally, I heard one possible lesser interpretation of the Unicorn Tapestries and the notion of catching unicorns in the medieval period as "an allegory on catching a husband". The unicorn representing a lustful romantic who gets tamed into Christian virtue by falling in love with a modest virgin. 

Well they are very...dare I say it...horny.

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18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

And honestly, if Jeralt truly had kept Byleth as ignorant as you say, then not only would Jeralt be an even more awful parent, he'd also be a failure as a leader; he and Byleth are both mercenaries, and the lifestyle of a mercenary is a really rough one, one that one rquiers coming face-to-face with the real world on multiple occasions, which one needs more than brute strength to survive into, they also need to be savvy, and if Jeralt truly hadn't allowed Byleth to learn about taking care of themselves in life despite having them in his ranks as mercs, then it wouldn't make sense for someone who's supposedly such an amazing leader and has years upon years of experience under his belt.

Highly disagree from this from personal experience.

My dad is an amazing man, but even he had his blind spots when raising me. He didn't really have The Talk with me until I went off for college; things like intimacy and romance aren't his strengths, so he avoided them for as long as he could until the moment he couldn't.

Jeralt could easily have been the same, and indeed seems to be the same - he doesn't tell Byleth about the Church of Seiros (aka the largest religious organization in Fodlan, which has connections to nearly every part of the land), his own past in any great or true detail, or anything pertaining to the regions they traveled to outside of the distance until immediately confronted with that fact: Jeralt didn't tell Byleth they were born in the monastery or that their own mother was buried there until Byleth found Jeralt at the grave site; Jeralt didn't tell Byleth about the Church of Seiros and the Archbishop until right before they met her; Jeralt mentions worrying about things like how Byleth is doing surrounded by more people than they've ever been surrounded by IIRC (although please correct me if I'm wrong here), but doesn't bring up his concern until AFTER Byleth is in the situation. (It's the prompt where you say you're NOT used to the people or the job yet, and it nets you affection points with Jeralt.)

Likewise, when it comes to teaching and experience, romance doesn't necessarily have to line up with that. Jeralt could have easily taught Byleth enough to survive and gain the reputation of the "Ashen Demon" on the battlefield, but left out other areas of education...which lines up with how little Byleth knows about the Church of Seiros and several other things.

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

Not to mention it'd also make Byleth not make any sense in the story proper. If Byleth truly was this ignorant golem of a person who truly has no idea about life or society, then them being the amazing teacher and leader they supposedly are wouldn't make any sense; hell, it wouldn't make sense for them hold their teaching position for longer than a few weeks at best.

Again, romance and survival aren't mutually inclusive - Jeralt taught Byleth all they need to know to survive, but simply not teaching them about romance is still a possibility.

In terms of the teaching ability, Byleth was hired not for their leadership skills at first, but because 1) Rhea wanted Byleth around, 2) there was a convenient opening to do so (that would also provide Byleth with the chance to get attached to the people within the school), and 3) Byleth proved themself over time.

Also, Byleth teaches at an Officer's Academy, not a regular school. They aren't teaching general history, philosophy, literature, and standard math. They're teaching tactics, weapons, warfare, and magic - things Byleth is experienced with. Byleth can tell their class from the very beginning of the schoolyear "your book says that routing during the rain isn't ideal, but let me add context of why - here are situations where it worked and here are some where it didn't," or "you're holding your sword wrong; watch me and repeat." It's more like having a pro basketball player leaving to teach an all-year basketball camp than it is to a standard teacher's role. 

So yeah, Byleth had the exact skillset for the job - how does their knowledge of (or in this case, lack thereof) sex translate into them not being able to know that?

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

hell, it wouldn't make sense for them hold their teaching position for longer than a few weeks at best. I mean, the fact that they go around inviting people to have dinner with them, organizing tea parties, giving advice through an advice box

Which you have to learn about, meaning Byleth may have had to learn about in order to implement such things. Most of those activities don't show up immediately, so Byleth may not have been acclimated to the area (or in the case of this argument, people and social standards) enough to do those activities without prompting.

In terms of the tea parties and advice box, you can get those wrong as often as you get right, meaning that Byleth can get those wrong as often as they get them right. Heck, how many of those answers DO players get right on those on average without using a guide? I remember it being a mess at launch, with every guide-hosting site scrambling for the answers ASAP. (Not to mention that there's a generally entertained - if not always believed - head-canon that Byleth rewinds time to get the ideal results when it comes to tea parties and such. While a still head-canon, it's not outside of the realm of possibility, and supports this secondary head-canon.)

In terms of dinner, you don't really have to speak a lot to learn a lot and be valued company. When I was an assistant language teacher, I ate with my students at times. Many times I would just simply watch them eat and enjoy their company, and they mine. Byleth could have easily have been in that situation, where they invite (or more like. were originally invited) by students to share a meal, listened to the students talk, and continued the routine while occasionally talking back at first.

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

outright train someone to win a dance competition (to the point that their trainee impresses even a retired songstress)

Or fail miserably. Besides, we don't know what the dance would look like in-universe. Byleth could have trained the student in a kata, refined it to be more graceful, and called it a day.

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

hell, if they really were kept that ignorant, then it wouldn't make sense for them to outright propose to someone at the end of the story. 

And over a year in social environments acclimated them to the world in some ways. Ideally Byleth wasn't just resting those afternoons and in-between missions away - they were eating with students, cooking meals, talking with anyone and everyone, and learning themself. Byleth's entire character arc is about becoming more human so to speak, so why do they need to end with the same level of ignorance as they started with?

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

There's also the fact that in the Japanese dub, at one point Byleth proposes celebrating with beer and booze, which is the way that mercenaries normally celebrate, which implies that, yes, they have indeed gone to taverns or even brothels with Jeralt and his mercenaries before. 

Beer and booze don't mean brothels, and I never said Byleth wouldn't have had alcohol. I just said that - and going off of what the previous head-canon to this conversation was - Byleth had a misconception about sex (what it entails in graphic and euphoric detail) due to a failed(?) proposition by Manuela until Byleth's spouse corrected that with their own experiences. (Who was thankful to Manuela, because now Byleth thinks they're some sort of romance guru and amazing.)

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

Also, Jeralt never says or shows that he was keeping Byleth away from society, Jeralt was only trying to keep both himself and Byleth away from the church; and there's also the fact that he wasn't even trying to hide from the church, he was simply trying to have as little contact with them as possible.

Jeralt also mentions how insanely large the organization of the Church is when meeting Rhea. 

Jeralt himself couldn't hide from the church unless he wanted them breathing down his neck his entire life. I'd go further and say that Jeralt and Rhea had an unspoken agreement: Jeralt wouldn't try to leave Fodlan with Byleth (which would have been the idea thing to do), and Rhea wouldn't hunt down Jeralt (which she most definitely could have at any time). Jeralts reputation was too big of a thing to NOT be known by the Church.

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

yleth and Jeralt are both famed mercenaries throughout Fodlan, and Byleth themselves even have an established reputation as the "Ashen Demon". That's not a resume that someone who was "kept away from most places and people" would have (not to mention, in Byleth's FE Heroes bio, it also says that they traveled all over Fodlan as a mercenary and fought in numerous battles).

That really just means Byleth had a reputation gained ON the battlefield and spread FROM the battlefield. If I play a sport and someone sees how good I am there, and then they tell their friends, and rumors of my skill spread, I don't need to be personable for people to hear of me. The same is true for Byleth. A surviving enemy - or a creeped out (or maybe even grateful) ally - could have easily started the rumor of the "Ashen Demon." 

 

18 hours ago, Cosmic_Dragon said:

Again, I bring up the Japanese dub where it's shown that Byleth can make raunchy jokes, and they do so openly; implying that, at the very least, they are indeed knowledgeable about sex and probably have no shame or problem bringing up the subject (which is normally more likely in people who have experience in that sort of thing). And let's be honest, Byleth for all intents and purposes was a perfectly healthy human being, and like any other human, they would've had points where their hormones got out of control, and them being rough n' tumble wandering mercs like Jotari said who were contrantly moving into all sorts of towns with all sorts of girls/boys, well... Not to mention, with how good-looking and well-built they are, I honestly can't imagine that no one ever approached them to try taking them to the bed (especially in the case of the female Byleth).

Or, like many children, remember a joke told and know when to bring it up, but don't know the context of why it's funny or what it really means. Kids say swear words all the time because they're told not to and they think it's funny. It's completely possible Byleth heard the joke and liked the reaction, remembered the joke, and applied it to a similar situation. 

In terms of Bylass, I'm sure people DID try to approach her; but between a father who is the most famed mercenary in the world, the woman you're trying to approach having a reputation for herself (not to mention is immune to all of your charms and tricks as she won't even crack a smile or show any emotion whatsoever), and a whole band of mercenaries who may host someone far more willing, I can see how Bylass wouldn't have a lot of people - if any at all - succeeding at wooing the Ashen Demon. 

(Although given that the head-canon started with Manuela propositioning, most of this theory has to do with Bylad, not Bylass. Which, to add to it, I could imagine Bylad getting horny, and Jeralt saying "relieve the stress in the forest, and come back when you're done. We don't want any baby versions of you running around," and leave out the entirety of the baby-making process.)

 

But at the end of the day, we're discussing non-canonical head-canons. You want it so that Byleth had sex before? That's fine! I'm not going to stop you - it's your head-canon. In mine, they hadn't, simple as that. It's really not worth spending this much time and effort over.

Edited by Use the Falchion

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19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Highly disagree from this from personal experience.

My dad is an amazing man, but even he had his blind spots when raising me. He didn't really have The Talk with me until I went off for college; things like intimacy and romance aren't his strengths, so he avoided them for as long as he could until the moment he couldn't.

Jeralt could easily have been the same, and indeed seems to be the same - he doesn't tell Byleth about the Church of Seiros (aka the largest religious organization in Fodlan, which has connections to nearly every part of the land), his own past in any great or true detail, or anything pertaining to the regions they traveled to outside of the distance until immediately confronted with that fact: Jeralt didn't tell Byleth they were born in the monastery or that their own mother was buried there until Byleth found Jeralt at the grave site; Jeralt didn't tell Byleth about the Church of Seiros and the Archbishop until right before they met her; Jeralt mentions worrying about things like how Byleth is doing surrounded by more people than they've ever been surrounded by IIRC (although please correct me if I'm wrong here), but doesn't bring up his concern until AFTER Byleth is in the situation. (It's the prompt where you say you're NOT used to the people or the job yet, and it nets you affection points with Jeralt.)

Likewise, when it comes to teaching and experience, romance doesn't necessarily have to line up with that. Jeralt could have easily taught Byleth enough to survive and gain the reputation of the "Ashen Demon" on the battlefield, but left out other areas of education...which lines up with how little Byleth knows about the Church of Seiros and several other things.

Those things that you mention however, are precisely things that Jeralt was trying to keep his distance from. Jeralt wanted to leave the church as well as anything concerning his life there behind, so of course he wouldn't tell Byleth about any of those things until right when he has no other choice, but that deosn't have to have any bearing on teaching Byleth about aspects completely separate from those. Not knowing about things like how the church works or things about history also doesn't have to line up with Jeralt teaching Byleth stuff about life in general. Also speaking from personal experience here, my dad was a politician and he made sure to teach me all there was to know about social interaction and, yes, matter of sexuality when he noticed I started taking an interest in that, but didn't really teach me much about history or politics himself until I was in my Senior year of High School. It's why I imagine that, even if Jeralt didn't really teach Byleth much about the church (which he was trying to keep his distance from) or aspects about history, he would still try to teach them about life in general; he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't make sure his son/daughter would know how to take care of themselves inside the battlefield as well as outside of it, especially given how much experience he has and the kind of lifestyle they lead.

(Also, Jeralt's line is that he was worried that Byleth having to teach a bunch of "noble brats" might've been too much for them. He was more concerned about the fact that they were now surrounded by mostly people of noble descent, not by people in general. And the answer of not being used to the monastery yet netting you affinity points with him could also be taken as him not exactly being comfortable in the monastery himself at the moment, so Byleth not being either could've been to his liking. Although, that could also just be headcanon on my part. But either way, it's not like you lose affinity points with him if you pick the other option, or like he reacts negatively to it either; at best he only acts a bit surprised but quickly brushes it off; and tbh, him only asking Byleth about the matter after the fact could also be a sign of him having confidence that Byleth can handle themselves well around people, but still being a bit concerned because of those people being a bit different from the kind they were normally around; although, that could also just be up to personal interpretation).

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Again, romance and survival aren't mutually inclusive - Jeralt taught Byleth all they need to know to survive, but simply not teaching them about romance is still a possibility.

In terms of the teaching ability, Byleth was hired not for their leadership skills at first, but because 1) Rhea wanted Byleth around, 2) there was a convenient opening to do so (that would also provide Byleth with the chance to get attached to the people within the school), and 3) Byleth proved themself over time.

Also, Byleth teaches at an Officer's Academy, not a regular school. They aren't teaching general history, philosophy, literature, and standard math. They're teaching tactics, weapons, warfare, and magic - things Byleth is experienced with. Byleth can tell their class from the very beginning of the schoolyear "your book says that routing during the rain isn't ideal, but let me add context of why - here are situations where it worked and here are some where it didn't," or "you're holding your sword wrong; watch me and repeat." It's more like having a pro basketball player leaving to teach an all-year basketball camp than it is to a standard teacher's role. 

So yeah, Byleth had the exact skillset for the job - how does their knowledge of (or in this case, lack thereof) sex translate into them not being able to know that?

No they aren't, but I also don't see any reason why he'd avoid explaining both to them, it's not like it'd be anything bad or counter intuitive to they lives. There's also the fact that he gives them their mother's ring so they can give it to someone they themselves want to marry someday, and he does this without needing to explain to Byleth what exactly he means with his wording, meaning he did it knowing that Byleth was fully aware of what he meant.

I wasn't talking about their understanding of intercourse in there though, I was referring to their overall knowledge of society and experience with it. Yes, Byleth may not teach subjects that aren't related to combat, but from my experience, to be as good a teacher as Byleth apparently is, it wouldn't be only about being good at the subject, but also about knowing how to deal and interact with people, otherwise students or other teachers might just raise complaints. My point was that everyone is always lauding Byleth as a great teacher and confidant, and you never once see anyone complaining about the way they teach or act in class, which I think wouldn't be possible if they truly had no real idea of how to interact with people. 

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Which you have to learn about, meaning Byleth may have had to learn about in order to implement such things. Most of those activities don't show up immediately, so Byleth may not have been acclimated to the area (or in the case of this argument, people and social standards) enough to do those activities without prompting.

In terms of the tea parties and advice box, you can get those wrong as often as you get right, meaning that Byleth can get those wrong as often as they get them right. Heck, how many of those answers DO players get right on those on average without using a guide? I remember it being a mess at launch, with every guide-hosting site scrambling for the answers ASAP. (Not to mention that there's a generally entertained - if not always believed - head-canon that Byleth rewinds time to get the ideal results when it comes to tea parties and such. While a still head-canon, it's not outside of the realm of possibility, and supports this secondary head-canon.)

In terms of dinner, you don't really have to speak a lot to learn a lot and be valued company. When I was an assistant language teacher, I ate with my students at times. Many times I would just simply watch them eat and enjoy their company, and they mine. Byleth could have easily have been in that situation, where they invite (or more like. were originally invited) by students to share a meal, listened to the students talk, and continued the routine while occasionally talking back at first.

We don't really "learn about them" though, so much as we're told those are things that can be done in the monastery and so, we just go and try them. It's clearly just meant to be game mechanics being introduced rather than anything to do with Byleth themselves, but it's really no different than someone saying "hey, you know we like doing x activity around here?" rather than "this is a thing and you do it like this...", especially since Byleth is just told about it and immediately does it without issue or needing to be told in-depth about it (hell, in the case of the tea party mechanic no one's walking Byleth through it, the tutorial prompts just appear by themselves, which could mean that Byleth already knows full well how this kind of thing goes and how to make it entertaining, which they most likely wouldn't if they had no experience in social interaction; same thing for the meal invitations and advice box).

Yes, they may not appear immediately, but that could simply be due to Byleth being new to the monastery and not really being aware of the costumes there rather than them just outright not knowing about any of that stuff. And yes, the player can get the answers in the tea time as well as in the advice box as right as they can get them wrong, but in the case of the tea parties, it's really not anything to do with Byleth's social skills so much as knowing the person they're interacting with enough, which of course is going to cause them (and by extension the players) some complications the first few times, you're not going to know much about people you just met. And I think I can say that Byleth certainly could be at least giving a lot of advice right in the box, since if they were really bad at it and only gave bad advice, then the box would probably get a bad reputation and people would just stop giving notes to it, but the fact that they keep on coming means that Byleth really wouldn't be doing half-bad in that; and yes, I know about the whole rewind time headcanon, but as much as that is entertained, like you said, it's still a headcanon; one that isn't really supported by the game itself either cause, well, we're just not given the ability to use Divine Pulse outside of battle, implying that Byleth either can't or just won't do it (not to mention Sothis probably wouldn't approve of her power being used in such a petty way).

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Or fail miserably. Besides, we don't know what the dance would look like in-universe. Byleth could have trained the student in a kata, refined it to be more graceful, and called it a day.

Thing is, Byleth's not just teaching their students dance moves, they're also outright raising their Charm, which I would think involves more than just teaching them to move; plus, I don't know if Byleth actually would know how to "refine" a fighting style to look more graceful (they were a mercenary, not necessarily a martial artist) or that they'd even know those kinds of arts (I certainly like to think they do, but Fodlan is not an occidental-themed country and doesn't really have any such lands adjacent to it). And yes, it can also be the case that the student fails, but honestly, you actually need to put in more effort to fail than to win, and that is the case even for students that have a low Charm stat. The easiest way of failing is if you completely neglect to train your student for the competition, which I don't think any player (and Byleth by extension) would've done.

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

And over a year in social environments acclimated them to the world in some ways. Ideally Byleth wasn't just resting those afternoons and in-between missions away - they were eating with students, cooking meals, talking with anyone and everyone, and learning themself. Byleth's entire character arc is about becoming more human so to speak, so why do they need to end with the same level of ignorance as they started with?

Yes, but to fully understand and be ready to propose to and marry someone would need a whole lot more time than just a year of social interaction for someone that would've had absolutely no concept of relationships, romance or intimacy prior to that one single year like you say Byleth would've. Otherwise, them proposing or accepting someone's proposal just feels pretty rushed and forced. Unless Byleth would truly still be ignorant enough do that while not really understanding what that entails, but that would just lead to a pretty rocky marriage that would most likely end in divorce (especially when they're also most likely dealing with the issue of running the church or the entire country). Byleth's arc (as much of an arc as they have anyway) is indeed about opening up more, but it's never said or shown that it also is about learning those kinds of things for the first time.

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Beer and booze don't mean brothels, and I never said Byleth wouldn't have had alcohol. I just said that - and going off of what the previous head-canon to this conversation was - Byleth had a misconception about sex (what it entails in graphic and euphoric detail) due to a failed(?) proposition by Manuela until Byleth's spouse corrected that with their own experiences. (Who was thankful to Manuela, because now Byleth thinks they're some sort of romance guru and amazing.)

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, but with how much of a heavy drinker Jeralt apparently is, as well as the people around him and Byleth being a bunch of mercenaries, it's pretty hard to believe that Byleth really never would've accompanied them to a tavern or something like that, which is what you seemed to be implying when you said that "they were kept away from most places and people"; that might've been a misconception of my part and I apologize for it. 

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Jeralt also mentions how insanely large the organization of the Church is when meeting Rhea. 

Jeralt himself couldn't hide from the church unless he wanted them breathing down his neck his entire life. I'd go further and say that Jeralt and Rhea had an unspoken agreement: Jeralt wouldn't try to leave Fodlan with Byleth (which would have been the idea thing to do), and Rhea wouldn't hunt down Jeralt (which she most definitely could have at any time). Jeralts reputation was too big of a thing to NOT be known by the Church.

Wouldn't that also go into headcanon territory though? We're never told exactly what kind of plans Jeralt had when he left the monastery; we're certainly not told or shown that he had an "unspoken agreement" with Rhea, especially when Rhea thought Byleth to be dead.

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

That really just means Byleth had a reputation gained ON the battlefield and spread FROM the battlefield. If I play a sport and someone sees how good I am there, and then they tell their friends, and rumors of my skill spread, I don't need to be personable for people to hear of me. The same is true for Byleth. A surviving enemy - or a creeped out (or maybe even grateful) ally - could have easily started the rumor of the "Ashen Demon." 

It's one thing to start a rumored reputation about something you're good at, yes, but it's another to maintain that reputation for such a time that you're considered a "living legend" of sorts, which wouldn't really be possible if one is kept away from people or society; perhaps it isn't necessary to be personable to gain a reputation, but maintaining it and elevating it to such levels would be another matter. And again, they supposedly traveled all over Fodlan, I really can't imagine that it'd had been possible for them to be kept away from civilization, especially when the story begins with them living on a village with people for who knows how long now. Yes, they may not have been to the big cities all that often (and even that's something we can't be sure of), but they certainly would've been no strangers to small towns or settlements.

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Or, like many children, remember a joke told and know when to bring it up, but don't know the context of why it's funny or what it really means. Kids say swear words all the time because they're told not to and they think it's funny. It's completely possible Byleth heard the joke and liked the reaction, remembered the joke, and applied it to a similar situation. 

In terms of Bylass, I'm sure people DID try to approach her; but between a father who is the most famed mercenary in the world, the woman you're trying to approach having a reputation for herself (not to mention is immune to all of your charms and tricks as she won't even crack a smile or show any emotion whatsoever), and a whole band of mercenaries who may host someone far more willing, I can see how Bylass wouldn't have a lot of people - if any at all - succeeding at wooing the Ashen Demon. 

(Although given that the head-canon started with Manuela propositioning, most of this theory has to do with Bylad, not Bylass. Which, to add to it, I could imagine Bylad getting horny, and Jeralt saying "relieve the stress in the forest, and come back when you're done. We don't want any baby versions of you running around," and leave out the entirety of the baby-making process.)

Thing is though, Byleth isn't a kid, and never during the story or their supports do they behave or are portrayed like one. Yes, kids say swear words all the time cause they're immature and don't really understand the full concept of what they're saying, they just think it's cool or funny, but Byleth is an adult and by no means a kid, they have a lot more maturity than that, and after spending so much time as a mercenary and living among other mercs it's kinda hard to think they'd honestly still be that innocent (or innocent at all tbh), there's no way they wouldn't at least notice the subtext in the joke (especially when they make it in a pretty accurate situation to the joke's context that they're fully aware of, rather than just making it randomly at some point for no reason like many kids do).

I don't think she/he'd be immune to "charms" and "tricks" though. They may not have been all that emotive, but that doesn't mean that they still weren't a perfectly healthy boy/girl with a perfectly functioning and developing body, and like anyone else, they would've had hormones that probably got wilder and wilder as they grew up. Again, they probably didn't emote much, but that doesn't mean they couldn't feel (which is basically what female Byleth herself says in one of her lines in her Forging Bonds event on FE Heroes; that she's aware that people think she lacks emotion, but in truth it just wasn't in her nature to show what she was feeling (but Jeralt and some of the mercs could pick up on it), meaning that they can feel, they just don't show it much), especially in cases where the feeling comes from natural human body/instinct reactions. Yes, perhaps the un-emotiveness might've creeped some people out, but again, with how good-looking and well-built they are, I honestly can imagine some people not really caring about that (and especially in the case of male Byleth since some girls do have a liking for super serious "bad boys", but that's more headcanon on my part than anything), and I honestly think that the reputation part would probably entice some people even more if anything (those who are the "I like the risk/challenge" type).

(Tbf, why wouldn't Jeralt explain what he means by "not wanting any baby versions" of Byleth? Or why would Byleth not ask him what he means by that? Or if Jeralt's not willing to give info. on it, why wouldn't they try asking anyone else? But well, it's your headcanon, so don't listen to me if you don't want to).

 

But you know what? You're right, at the end of the day it's all just made up headcanons, who knows what Byleth's and Jeralt's lives were actually like before getting to the monastery. Everyone's got their own opinion in the end, and honestly, at this point we're just nitpicking and wasting time, so how about we just agree to disagree and everyone believes whatever they want? (and tbf, it's not really about whether Byleth's had relations before, that's not really something of importance (I'm mostly just trying to argue that it is completely plausible for them to have experience in such things; whether they actually do or not is something that cannot be said for sure) It's more about them not being mentally stunted/oblivious to life and society like some people believe they are, but again, everyone can believe what they want; that's what avatars are for in the end).

Edited by Cosmic_Dragon

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The ending of Azure Moon is actually the most tragic.

Spoiler

 

Sure, Edelgard was stopped and the war has ended, but Dimitri turned out to be less capable at ruling and reforming than at fighting. It also did not help that the Empire was in some ways more attractive for the people - Edelgard may have been ruthless, but she granted opportunities and the social mobility people couldn't enjoy before. With Edelgard's supporters and even some of her opponents finding out the truth behind both the church and the Empire, it was a matter of time before the former Adrestian region and even some territories within Faergus would rebel against the Kingdom.

And this time, there wasn't a bloodthirsty Emperor to unite against. Felix now opposes Dimitri and his prolonged wartime footing and calls for him to step down. Byleth, Sylvain, and even Ingrid also now refuses to support Dimitri's governance. While the church (Seteth in particular) desired to provide assistance in purging the rebels, the Moderates who made in-roads into the Church's new management, including, Manuela/Hanneman (if recruited), and Mercedes blocked this as well. It also didn't help that Rhea stood down from Archbishop after Byleth and Claude's requests, and Seteth gradually lost his influence. Catherine too was no longer the hardliners she was after she had a long hard look at both herself and Rhea, and how much of a negative influence the latter ended up being.

In the end, the unrest was only quelled when Dimitri stepped down from the throne, Felix, Ingrid, and Sylvain ran the government as a council, and together with Byleth started implemented the very reforms that Edelgard had wanted for all of Fodlan. While the older nobles who survived the war opposed such measures, they were powerless to stop the reforms imposed by the younger generation of war heroes. In the end, Edelgard had the last laugh from the grave...

...And this was both an idea I had from the British General Elections of 1945, and the general anti-monarchist unrest across Europe in the 1840s after the downfall of Napoleon. You may win the war, but can you preserve the old order?

Edited by henrymidfields

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On 8/10/2021 at 5:34 PM, Samz707 said:

A drunk Manuela would definitely proposition Byleth for sex at least once if it wasn't for the age rating.

 

 

I have the headcanon that Manuela is the side fuck for Byleth when they are needy. And not only Byleth but most of her colleagues, she is the chick to go when someone want to have easy sex 😕 

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Lundgren found out about the Lorca ahead of his brother and hired the Taliver Bandits to wipe them out.

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The reason Hector is so OC in Heroes is because it's actually his Cousin Orun.

Grima had a thing for Chrom considering how they apparently turn him into a Risen-King in the bad time line.

Edited by Samz707

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Hector was having a love affair with Eliwood in their adulthood and their wives, regardless of who they are, were only beards, the reason that they didn't see each other for years is because they fought and broke up because Hector didn't want to cut his ugly moustache 😕

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Most dragon (or any non human sentient being) iteration in Fire emblem series origins are actually just human.. that already forgot they (or their ancestor) are human.

why? because they simply return into human form when they are exhausted, when their fancy rock depleted, etc etc. Why would you have problem maintaining your form if its your origin. it makes more sense to deplete energy for transformation (and maintaining it) than staying as your origin form. any doppelganger or other similar shape-shifting stuff  always return to their origin form when killed afaik.

dont preach to me about gameplay perspective reasoning, im well aware of that

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1 hour ago, joevar said:

Most dragon (or any non human sentient being) iteration in Fire emblem series origins are actually just human.. that already forgot they (or their ancestor) are human.

why? because they simply return into human form when they are exhausted, when their fancy rock depleted, etc etc. Why would you have problem maintaining your form if its your origin. it makes more sense to deplete energy for transformation (and maintaining it) than staying as your origin form. any doppelganger or other similar shape-shifting stuff  always return to their origin form when killed afaik.

dont preach to me about gameplay perspective reasoning, im well aware of that

The backstory of Archanea does have it in reverse though. Their dragon form is their default form. The human base form was something created due to an unknown cataclysm.

 

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

The backstory of Archanea does have it in reverse though. Their dragon form is their default form. The human base form was something created due to an unknown cataclysm.

 

actually thats my whole reasoning making that post. thats what happen in FE6 too. the only difference being FE6 clearly stated the form of cataclysm.  but why not just outright become weaker, rather than becoming human to stay alive (and healthy?). also Gotoh stay as human after war just fine, not dead for centuries despite cant transform back to dragon form since no longer has dragonstone. if they need dragonstone (energy)  to become dragon, and they cant produce it themselves within their bodies, doesnt it mean the source is external? Athos and Nergal live almost a milennia long too, so long life = not human can be ruled out.

thats why my headcanon: those dragons tribe just a group of human that can harvest and nurture certain type of energy which makes them become dragon and almost immortal. the energy are abundant so it keeps replenishing and maintains their dragon form. in simpler term, its like the world has abundant mana you can cast magic almost infinitely/easily. due to cataclysm the energy depleted, polluted, or become scarce, so they need to conserve it if they want to use dragon strength. by that logic they are still technically human by origin, since there's no implication at all (afaik) they become human other than.. you know, become as weak/strong as another human.

one of clear exception being Mila and Duma tho, since they become dragon when died

Edited by joevar

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3 hours ago, joevar said:

actually thats my whole reasoning making that post. thats what happen in FE6 too. the only difference being FE6 clearly stated the form of cataclysm.  but why not just outright become weaker, rather than becoming human to stay alive (and healthy?). also Gotoh stay as human after war just fine, not dead for centuries despite cant transform back to dragon form since no longer has dragonstone. if they need dragonstone (energy)  to become dragon, and they cant produce it themselves within their bodies, doesnt it mean the source is external? Athos and Nergal live almost a milennia long too, so long life = not human can be ruled out.

thats why my headcanon: those dragons tribe just a group of human that can harvest and nurture certain type of energy which makes them become dragon and almost immortal. the energy are abundant so it keeps replenishing and maintains their dragon form. in simpler term, its like the world has abundant mana you can cast magic almost infinitely/easily. due to cataclysm the energy depleted, polluted, or become scarce, so they need to conserve it if they want to use dragon strength. by that logic they are still technically human by origin, since there's no implication at all (afaik) they become human other than.. you know, become as weak/strong as another human.

one of clear exception being Mila and Duma tho, since they become dragon when died

But there are dragons in Archanea that refused to become manaketes and stayed as dragons perpetually. It was a really big sticking point for them. Unlike Elibe, being a dragon wasn't something to do with energy, it was linked to sanity for some reason. In fact non manakete dragons have higher stats than manakete dragons according to the game's classes.

Edited by Jotari

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I haven't played Heroes alot recently so I haven't used her a bunch so I don't know if any dialogue she says contradicts it but Manuela almost certainly put on her Christmas Alt Heroes Outfit trying to pick someone up for the not-christmas party in Garreg Mach. (And being Manuela, this didn't work out or it actually did work out...except she got whisked away to Heroes before anything happened so the one time she gets lucky interdimensional travel cockblocks her.)

 

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I'm a guy who loves their emotional drama. Anyways, here are my headcanons, mainly related to the War of Shadows.
 
Hardin: Everyone thinks Castle Deil is a trap but Hardin is the first one to back up Marth saying "We're going to Castle Deil to rescue Princess Minerva's sister" as he puts his foot down. Probably to return a favor Minerva did for Hardin as the two worked together to hunt down deserters. He'd also be one of the first ones to welcome and trust Minerva with open arms when others would be... wary of the Crimson Dragoon.
 
Est switches sides and goes on a quest to obtain Mercurius: When Minerva was separated from her Whitewings, Est had done some thinking... connecting dots and coming up with conspiracy theories that Maria and Minerva were already dead. Like Minerva hasn't shown up for a week. Est would pick fights with their Dolhr associated allies in camp with Palla having to.... well cool things off. Minerva and her Whitewings were not treated by their Dolhrian allies and Est wanted to step in for for older sisters. Mistreatment induced desertion by the Dolhrian allies is what causes Est to snap and switch sides.
 
Est would get in a big argument with her sisters as the pink-haired girl was sick and tired to being played like a fiddle and licking Dolhr's boots. Est would tell Palla and Catria to stop living a lie as she shares her theory that Maria was already dead alongside Minerva as the latter hasn't shown up for a week. Catria and Palla would push back against Est's theory but a fumed Est (well she's a young teenager around the age of 13-14 in Shadow Dragon if you do the math) would desert, setting on a journey to do something good for once... as well as prove herself as someone worthy. That journey, if Est had to go alone and she had to because she had no backup from the older Whitewings was to steal back the Mercurius.
 
Palla and Catria would tell Est to reconsider, to stop doing something reckless all by herself but Est would leave the two elder sisters to lick their mental wounds and continue to lick the heel of Dolhr.
 
Minerva/Maria/Michalis: Clearly Minerva and Maria have had talks regarding Michalis once Grust was done and over with. After all Minerva would state "What one more body to the pile" while Maria would want Minerva to do better, oppose Michalis not out of vengeance but on principle.
 
Of course during the battle, Minerva would engage Michalis and after a fierce clash of steel, Michalis surrenders but not before being heavily wounded as Minerva doesn't accept. It comes to a head when Maria steps in between Minerva and a heavily wounded Michalis. Minerva, in all her emotion and vengeance would threaten Maria to get out of the way. After a few back and forths, cooler heads prevail as Maria manages to well... cool off Minerva as Michalis would see another day.... and indirectly saving Minerva's life in Mystery of the Emblem.

Minerva and Michalis (Shadow Dragon - Mystery Midquel): During breaks in which Minerva was playing politics, she visited Michalis in whatever secret hut Maria placed him in. There, Minerva would get Michalis' side of the story regarding Osmund, Maria, Gharnef and the Macedon's alliance with Dolhr. Plus Michalis's turn to good was more of a slow, gradual process.

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36 minutes ago, thetiger39 said:
 

Minerva and Michalis (Shadow Dragon - Mystery Midquel): During breaks in which Minerva was playing politics, she visited Michalis in whatever secret hut Maria placed him in. There, Minerva would get Michalis' side of the story regarding Osmund, Maria, Gharnef and the Macedon's alliance with Dolhr. Plus Michalis's turn to good was more of a slow, gradual process.

I'm quite sure Minerva is surprised to discover Michalis is alive in Mystery of the Emblem.

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