how is this game frustrating again?

[sunstarsage]

6 minutes ago, Integrity said:

i think it should be telling that you're only engaging about a quarter of the points people are posting; there are a lot of legitimate reasons that obviously don't bother you that people think fe6 is frustrating or tedious to play.

 

that said, you're genuinely wrong on the points you refuted

31 minutes ago, sunstarsage said:

how does that make the game frustrating? 

larger maps, for many people, and especially with fe6's fairly mediocre map design, involve a lot more brainless movement and repositioning between the combats, in addition to being larger timesinks in a game that's designed to be beaten in discrete map increments. yes, the suspend feature exists, but imo it's an emergency measure and fire emblem as a franchise is largely designed to have maps completed from start to finish without huge breaks.

 

i say largely chiefly because fe4's design is completely different to the rest of the series - but the exceptionally large maps of fe4 are considered by many to be a turnoff, frustrating to plan for, or tedious to move around. you see where i'm going with this?

 

31 minutes ago, sunstarsage said:

have you ever heard of baiting them out or using a barrier staff 

having to stop to bait out badly designed units is, to a lot of people, frustrating design, especially when the best way to get around them is to stuff someone in range and leave them there for five turns to burn the charges before you can send anyone else down that axis. your solution to what that fellow claimed was frustrating design is, itself, a frustrating solution for a lot of players, myself included, which is why i don't stop.

 

31 minutes ago, sunstarsage said:

dude really? yes Roy may suck but he's not THAT BAD. 

roy is, punch for punch, per-level, worse in every single stat other than luck than ogier, a unit who is widely regarded to be pretty mediocre and outclassed by every swordsman who joins before him. ogier, a pretty crappy unit, can, however, promote before the game is essentially over. the reputation that people like to throw around about how all fire emblem lords are bad and all that shit is completely overstated and mostly just parroted by dunces from the old days or people who heard it somewhere; roy is one of the vanishingly few times where the dude is that bad.

 

31 minutes ago, sunstarsage said:

well you don't have to play the gaiden chapters if you don't want to. its not like your missing out on much anyway. 

the paralogues comprise, to wit, a fifth of the game's content, and not doing all of them locks you out of the final two maps and true ending. they are poor maps, and saying 'just ignore them' holds very little water.

well fine I give up. although I still disagree with some points people have made I understand that this game really is not a game for everyone. its just that I my self happen to really like this game for my own reasons that its kind of hard to be a fan of a game that people seem to hate. honestly I regret making this post now and I apologize for just wasting your time.

[Integrity]

it's not really a waste if you learned something tho

 

[joevar]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

As in, get the true ending.  Have fun.

dont forget to add "everyone recruited and survived", in having fun requirement. lol

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, joevar said:

dont forget to add "everyone recruited and survived", in having fun requirement. lol

I can't recruit Dayan and Yuno at the same time, BAN.  😜

For the most part, this is doable if you're playing slowly, and rotate your units out accordingly.  Honestly, the unit that dies on me the most is Roy.

[joevar]

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I can't recruit Dayan and Yuno at the same time, BAN.  😜

For the most part, this is doable if you're playing slowly, and rotate your units out accordingly.  Honestly, the unit that dies on me the most is Roy.

ch.7 is the only one where i actually lost my mind trying to save everyone and the new cavalier group. either someone from my initial roster dies from trying to cover zelot group, or one of zelot cavs dies from deadlock(because of that "playing slow" )

after that its just a matter if you restrict yourself to not grinding / limit turn count or train unit so they are less squishy and relatively same lvl

Edited December 3, 2020 by joevar

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, joevar said:

ch.7 is the only one where i actually lost my mind trying to save everyone and the new cavalier group. either someone from my initial roster dies from trying to cover zelot group, or one of zelot cavs dies from deadlock(because of that "playing slow" )

after that its just a matter if you restrict yourself to not grinding / limit turn count or train unit so they are less squishy and relatively same lvl

Chapter 7's pitfall is that it's so damn early!  Marcus/Jerrot help a lot, as does Wolt/Lugh (assuming they don't eat counters).  After that, it's a wing and a prayer, because those wyvern riders suck.

[joevar]

wolt being wolt, no strength and speed to speak of, he failed me even his supposed field of expertise (shoot flier). lost count how many save state, retries, or changing army arrangement i did. even when i manage to save zelot and weaker unit, its rutger whos dying... smh

EDIT: oh wait, thats HM, sorry TS 😛

Edited December 3, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

Filthy casuals just need to get good. Embrace the low hit. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.

5 hours ago, Integrity said:

roy is, punch for punch, per-level, worse in every single stat other than luck than ogier, a unit who is widely regarded to be pretty mediocre and outclassed by every swordsman who joins before him. ogier, a pretty crappy unit, can, however, promote before the game is essentially over. the reputation that people like to throw around about how all fire emblem lords are bad and all that shit is completely overstated and mostly just parroted by dunces from the old days or people who heard it somewhere; roy is one of the vanishingly few times where the dude is that bad.

Maybe before promotion, but Roy's promotion games are massive (which yeah, is a small compromise compared to the timing of his promotion) giving him more skill and defense in the long run. And even with both of them at 20/0 he's that extra 3 points of Res XD Yeah that ain't much (though it jumps to a 9 point lead at 20/20). Man I really wish they had made Roy a res tank physical unit. It would have let him remain crappy while still having something of a niche. Bolting would have been less of a day ruiner too. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Jotari

[joevar]

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Bolting would have been less of a day ruiner too. 

  bolting a day ruiner?
pfft *laugh in Bolting-equipped Lilina*

druid with berserker staff is more day ruiner to me, since its harder to avoid

Edited December 3, 2020 by joevar

[ping]

As someone who greatly enjoys this game - I can acknowledge that it's a lot more frustrating if you don't know what's coming. Ambush spawns can be worked around as long as you know both where and when they spawn, but usually only one of the two is made clear ingame (oh hello there Rutger please don't kill my healer). Gaiden requirements aren't otherworldly difficult to fulfill, but it's even easier to miss them because you're farming reinforcements or grinding support points. Gaiden gimmicks can be a lot more annoying if you don't know how exactly they work - for example, the arrows of light when you don't know where your units are safe.

It's probaly one of the worse games to play blind, but I find that becomes more enjoyable the more you know about it - which is something FE7 or 8 don't really have. The secret strategy to beat this seemingly difficult chapter? Let Seth charge ahead and kill everything! Wow, that's, er... great?

[Jotari]

31 minutes ago, ping said:

As someone who greatly enjoys this game - I can acknowledge that it's a lot more frustrating if you don't know what's coming. Ambush spawns can be worked around as long as you know both where and when they spawn, but usually only one of the two is made clear ingame (oh hello there Rutger please don't kill my healer). Gaiden requirements aren't otherworldly difficult to fulfill, but it's even easier to miss them because you're farming reinforcements or grinding support points. Gaiden gimmicks can be a lot more annoying if you don't know how exactly they work - for example, the arrows of light when you don't know where your units are safe.

It's probaly one of the worse games to play blind, but I find that becomes more enjoyable the more you know about it - which is something FE7 or 8 don't really have. The secret strategy to beat this seemingly difficult chapter? Let Seth charge ahead and kill everything! Wow, that's, er... great?

Oh yeah, I can't say I like the Arrows of Light very much. That chapter isn't as bad as the Apocalypse one, but it does frustrate quite a bit. Some kind of warning sign showing where the arrows are going to be would be really appreciated.

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/2/2020 at 7:13 PM, sunstarsage said:

how does that make the game frustrating? 

It's more the fact that it makes the game tedious. It also gets old fast, in addition to favouring mounted units and shafting infantry and armored units, not unlike Genealogy of the Holy War, which also gets a lot of flak for its map design.

On 12/2/2020 at 7:13 PM, sunstarsage said:

have you ever heard of baiting them out or using a barrier staff 

I have. It doesn't make it okay, especially when low resistance is the norm for units. Case in point: chapter 20 in Sacae. A fog of war map with Bolting Sages that threaten huge chunks of the map... and you can't kill them unless you either use your own Bolting or have the Warp staff. As a result, I'm essentially locked down in the starting area until they've used them all up lest they double team and kill a unit. Oh, and those aren't the only long range threats this chapter has - there's also a Berserk staff and a ballista (iirc, this one is an iron ballista, which has even longer range than normal ballistae) because screw you. And for added "fun", they're ALSO in positions where you can't do anything about them. And all of this crap in a chapter that you must complete within a turn limit for the good ending.

On 12/2/2020 at 7:13 PM, sunstarsage said:

dude really? yes Roy may suck but he's not THAT BAD. 

I'd say he kind of is. His growths are mostly concentrated on lesser stats (skill, HP and luck), which means you're gonna have to get majorly lucky to get a good Roy. Making matters worse, he hits a plateau the moment he hits level 20, as his promotion isn't until chapter 22, at which point he'd be underpowered compared to everyone else.

On 12/2/2020 at 7:13 PM, sunstarsage said:

well you don't have to play the gaiden chapters if you don't want to. its not like your missing out on much anyway. 

Except the final chapters and the good ending are locked behind those chapters. Also, it's not like those are the only chapters that suck. The Sacae maps all suck ass, and the chapter where you get Echidna ls also awful, to say nothing of the desert chapter.

[Sengu]

I guess it depends on how you play it.

Personally I like to recruit every character during my first run, as well as letting no one die. This is my way to have fun with Fire Emblem. Now the problem with this is that I found Binding Blade to really exagerate with the reinforcements and has a weird balance with the rolls of the hits, missing even with 90 or above. All of this results in a lot of trial and error, especially if we talk about the reinforcements issues since you don't know where will they be coming from. I can think of Chapter 21 which was a real nightmare for me and I had to abuse the suspend\resume feature. 

The impression I got from this game is that was meant to be played in some kind of "rush mode", at least if you want to recruit everyone or get past Chapter 22.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Sengu

[Marienburg]

I'm playing on NM and the hit rates on thrones are really annoying. You're just spending turn after turn watching your effective weapon charges deplete as you miss and miss and miss. My Lot carrying the Hammer died to a Debias 1% crit after I spent 4 turns missing everything on Debias while he was at 5 hp. Very frustrating.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Marienburg

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Marienburg said:

I'm playing on NM and the hit rates on thrones are really annoying. You're just spending turn after turn watching your effective weapon charges deplete as you miss and miss and miss. My Lot carrying the Hammer died to a Debias 1% crit after I spent 4 turns missing everything on Debias while he was at 5 hp. Very frustrating.

Unless it's magic (which only has effective damage against flying enemies), weapons durability doesn't decrease on a miss.

[Samz707]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Unless it's magic (which only has effective damage against flying enemies), weapons durability doesn't decrease on a miss.

To be fair, if you get REALLY unlucky with hit-rates, you can use a good few more sword/lance/axe/bow hits than you'd like as they'll heal up during those misses.

[Sengu]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:34 PM, Marienburg said:

I'm playing on NM and the hit rates on thrones are really annoying. You're just spending turn after turn watching your effective weapon charges deplete as you miss and miss and miss. My Lot carrying the Hammer died to a Debias 1% crit after I spent 4 turns missing everything on Debias while he was at 5 hp. Very frustrating.

I feel you. Axe wielders are terrible in this game.

[Whisky]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:50 AM, ping said:

It's probaly one of the worse games to play blind, but I find that becomes more enjoyable the more you know about it - which is something FE7 or 8 don't really have. The secret strategy to beat this seemingly difficult chapter? Let Seth charge ahead and kill everything! Wow, that's, er... great?

This has been my experience as well. This was one of my least favorite FE games when I first played it, primarily due to ambush spawns, but the more I play it the more I like it, and it has become my favorite FE game.

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:50 AM, ping said:

It's probaly one of the worse games to play blind, but I find that becomes more enjoyable the more you know about it - which is something FE7 or 8 don't really have. The secret strategy to beat this seemingly difficult chapter? Let Seth charge ahead and kill everything! Wow, that's, er... great?

 

On 12/25/2020 at 12:14 PM, Whisky said:

This has been my experience as well. This was one of my least favorite FE games when I first played it, primarily due to ambush spawns, but the more I play it the more I like it, and it has become my favorite FE game.

I don't quite see it that way - largely because I don't have the tolerance for its many, many bad design choices. I would liken looking for redeeming features in Binding Blade to diving into a giant pile of manure for a candy bar.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[ping]

cool. i think it's well established that you hate everything, so i'm not really surprised.

[cluesagi]

On a somewhat related note, why do people treat hard mode as the standard difficulty by which to judge the game? And this also applies to most other FE games as well. The devs locked FE6 hard mode behind completing normal mode once for a reason. It seems to me that FE6's normal difficulty is the standard experience that the devs intended and hard was just added in as a way to add some replay value for skilled players. So I feel like discussion around this game should assume normal difficulty, not hard.

[joevar]

2 hours ago, cluesagi said:

On a somewhat related note, why do people treat hard mode as the standard difficulty by which to judge the game? And this also applies to most other FE games as well. The devs locked FE6 hard mode behind completing normal mode once for a reason. It seems to me that FE6's normal difficulty is the standard experience that the devs intended and hard was just added in as a way to add some replay value for skilled players. So I feel like discussion around this game should assume normal difficulty, not hard.

you must realize, this only happen in serenesforum especially. i dont like it either. but whenever someone find you arguing something using "normal mode" gameplay experiences, many "fans" start ignoring your opinion like someone amateur. at least thats what i got (here)...

this is worse when some people use lunatic / maddening mode as benchmark if the game is good or bad, balanced or not

Edited December 27, 2020 by joevar

[cluesagi]

59 minutes ago, joevar said:

whenever someone find you arguing something using "normal mode" gameplay experiences, many "fans" start ignoring your opinion like someone amateur.

Yeah, and with FE6 in particular it's really a shame because I know a lot of people get scared away from even giving this game a try because of all the negativity thrown around about it. But those people may not realize that a lot of people's negative opinions of FE6 are based on its hard mode, and they may actually really enjoy it on normal.

Moreover, if someone unfamiliar with FE6 is led to believe that hard is the standard difficulty, they may try to play their first playthrough on hard, which will almost certainly be a terrible experience.

[Marienburg]

4 hours ago, cluesagi said:

Yeah, and with FE6 in particular it's really a shame because I know a lot of people get scared away from even giving this game a try because of all the negativity thrown around about it. But those people may not realize that a lot of people's negative opinions of FE6 are based on its hard mode, and they may actually really enjoy it on normal.

Moreover, if someone unfamiliar with FE6 is led to believe that hard is the standard difficulty, they may try to play their first playthrough on hard, which will almost certainly be a terrible experience.

I just finished my run on NM. Overall I liked it with mixed feelings about the common complaints. The criticism i disagree with the most is about ambush spawns because I felt they are generally communicated well in advance. The only one that got me was Rutger's sally where I lost 3 units because I was expecting Rutger to come out as a green unit, partially because Clarine did. i think the most fair critique is that the chapters often do end up feeling like a tedious slog. Grinding your way through bolting charges, having to restore berserk/sleep/silence for the first 5 turns of the map, moving large armies across large maps even though you only need a couple of unit to kill the boss but you're bringing everybody anyway because there might be reinforcements at the boss or from behind, castle maps with linear hallways, having to wait 6-10 turns to seize because your thief has to finish making the rounds. It gets kinda repetitive. I really enjoyed the Zeiss recruitment map because that map forces you to negotiate multiple goals at the same time as well as figure out what to do about Douglas when your sleep staff fails, but more often it's slow linear crawls like Arcadia or 15 The Dragon Child, which for a moment I thought was the same map as 5 Fire Emblem. I think the hit issues on their own are not so bad (I'll see how bad it is on HM), but they really are that bad on bosses in the early part of the game where you only have 1-2 units capable of even doing damage to the boss, and where those units missing means you now have to do multiple rescue drop triangles to make sure you dont lose anybody; it really starts to add to that slog/sameyness problem.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Marienburg

[Whisky]

3 hours ago, Marienburg said:

I just finished my run on NM. Overall I liked it with mixed feelings about the common complaints...

The game isn’t flawless, and as as much as I love it, I do agree with a lot of those complaints to an extent. But on the other hand, there are often ways to deal with many of the problems you listed, and it can be satisfying to figure out better strategies in order to do so. It really makes you feel like you’ve improved at the game. Chapter 15 for example really isn’t a slog at all. It can be cleared very quickly by flying over the mountains. Figuring out different strategies can mitigate a lot of the problems people have with this game.