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OutcastsofRelix

If you had the chance to remake FE4 what would you add or want to see?

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Things I would add: 

Make the holy weapons more plot relevant 

A Berkut like character maybe a female noblewoman who's the cousin of Sigurd.

Supports and Barracks

More Classes 

Weapon types to existing classes

A animal shifter of some kind

 

Things I want to see:

Make Lewyn x Erinys one of the canon pairings Fe5 did it so can this remake

Azelle x Tailtiu  maybe canon

 

 

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Personally:

  • If they must keep the map sizes, make the maps interesting to play through; large maps can be fun, but in my opinion FE4's aren't.
  • Nerfing Sigurd...
  • Removing Pursuit as a skill to make it necessary to double
  • Some indoor maps that are more traditional FE maps.
  • Make the love system more clear
  • Remove a lot of the forests and difficult terrain.

I would be okay with them keeping the spirit of FE4, but just making the maps more interesting would be great.

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  • Make moments where you must backtrack less tedious.
  • Allow Holy Weapons to be sold and rebought to allow for interesting combinations of characters who should be able to use one but couldn't in the original game being able to now.
  • Add Saias as a playable character when Leif and his gang are recruited.
  • Add more story to Gen 2's cast, as most of them feel too much like clones of their parents.
  • Add something to aknowledge the substitute children and the fact that they exist in case the player does not recruit them.

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Just please, add supports to the game. The love system in the original game, while fine, was also just so shallow since there were no supports. We are to believe these characters love each other and made a child, so show us their story! On that note, while I know the love system was meant to bring the children into the world for gen 2, give us SOME gay supports. Especially in Gen 2 where there really isn't any reason not to have them.

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9 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

give us SOME gay supports. Especially in Gen 2 where there really isn't any reason not to have them.

I would love this

also remove the substitutes they offer nothing to the story.

have some fe5 cameos

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i'd like it to be as close to the original as possible (this includes not shrinking maps, not changing the story, not removing skills such as pursuit BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, NOT CHANGING MIRACLE'S EFFECT), but yeah there are some things i'd like to see as well, mainly supports and more extra dialogues

i feel that new classes could potentially be cool, but i honestly don't know what they could add, FE4 already has many cool classes

i also wouldn't really like to see new characters a la Berkut, Ferdinand and Faye, although i guess i wouldn't really hate a new Chalphy knight joining together with Noish and Alec, maybe female as long as she's not Cecil 2

one last thing, i don't want to see combat arts, battalions nor anything of the sort, just no

 

yeah i know, i'm particularly strict about these things

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-I would introduce supports and just have the completely replace the lover system. Make it a system where the player decide pairings directly rather than mildly influence them and desperately hope for the best. 

-I would perhaps also introduce some more scenes of Arvis to make the player more attached to him in part one. In part two the extra scenes would go the Julius and Ishtar. 

-The second gens also severely needs to be given the Echoes treatment. As it stands they don't really have much personality. 

-Make baby Oifey and baby Shannan playable in some form or another during the first gen. 

3 hours ago, OutcastsofRelix said:

Azelle x Tailtiu  maybe canon

Azelle x Tailtiu definitely canon! 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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1 hour ago, Yexin said:

i also wouldn't really like to see new characters a la Berkut, Ferdinand and Faye, although i guess i wouldn't really hate a new Chalphy knight joining together with Noish and Alec, maybe female as long as she's not Cecil 2

Add a female unit with minor Neir holy blood.

Her daughter doesn't use axes and her son is an Axe Armor.

You can pair her with Lex and finally use Helswath- on a General.

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1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Add a female unit with minor Neir holy blood.

Her daughter doesn't use axes and her son is an Axe Armor.

You can pair her with Lex and finally use Helswath- on a General.

lmao that would be awesome, i'd like to use Helswath

 

by the way, i never quite realized that adding a new female character in genealogy implies adding 4 new characters (2 children + 2 substitutes) as well

Edited by Yexin

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Hm... What would I add? Jolly good question, that.

  • Supports
  • Holy Weapons usable by Minor Bloods, but with 1/2 stat boosts
  • Sigurd having 2-3 less base in all areas in exchange for +10-20% growth in all areas
  • Some modicum of balance between classes (Knight Lord and Master Knight, specifically)
  • A few more characters (Saias for Gen2!)
  • The last time you face a Holy Weapon, it drops so you can use it
  • Buying and selling Holy Weapons

More or less, give more options for the game.

 

Aside from that, what would I hope for?

  • A good avatar. Yes. Why can't we just have an avatar that is their own character, instead of a self-insert?
  • Would be interesting if there was a knight of the Rotenritter who Arvis had join Sigurd. That could be quite good, with them also being betrayed by Arvis, or them turning on Sigurd.

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  • Nerf Sigurd, even if only by taking some bases off, and giving him a promotion to replace them. 
  • Buff the default gen 2 cast, so that there's an actual reason to use the non child characters (maybe give them some cool weapons or new skills that aren't available to the child char replacements or extra events)
  • Replace the broken exploitable every turn save mechanic, replace it with maybe save when capturing a castle
  • Explain the love system to the player, not necessarily the child mechanic, but love growths and lovers critical
  • Supports or base convos to build characters, especially between default and replacement gen2 characters. 
  • As much as I hate FE4 maps, any changes should be kept to a minimum, since if you change too much, its just a very different probably better game with an old story. 
  • 3D modles that dont clip into themselves for once please. 
  • NG+ mechanic that lets you go straight to gen 2 with whatever pairings you want, so that replay value isn't locked behind the first half of the game. 
  • Make Leif (an actual good character) the lord instead of Celice
  • Don't tie-in Thracia 776, except maybe acknowledging Saias in some way. 
  • Maybe nerf holy Weapons, so that Forseti/Balmung go brrr doesn't destroy any challenge the game could provide. 
  • Replace Pursuit with a speed threshold, instead of just having speed be pointless on some characters. 
  • Remake a better game instead

 

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

-Make baby Oifey and baby Shannan playable in some form or another during the first gen. 

When would they do this, how would they go about it, and why do you want this? (sorry if this is coming off as being douchey)

1 hour ago, L3xandr3 said:

A good avatar. Yes. Why can't we just have an avatar that is their own character, instead of a self-insert?

avatar
/ˈavətɑː/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    HINDUISM
    a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher.
     
     
  2. 2.
    an icon or figure representing a particular person in a video game, internet forum, etc.
     
     
     
    Do you just want to be able to rename and change the gender of any fully developed character? Because otherwise I have no idea how you can have a 'good' Avatar (sorry if this is coming off as being douchey)
     
     

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10 minutes ago, Pengaius said:

When would they do this, how would they go about it, and why do you want this? (sorry if this is coming off as being douchey)

Simple. Having characters that are present in both generations is interesting. Additionally trainee units(which they'd obviously be) are a fun concept. 

I quite liked the manga interpretation of Shanan where he was trained into quite the good swordsmen by Ayra and Lex, and actually fought Manfroy to protect Deirdre. Right after Deirdre's kidnapping would be a good time for him to join. Oifey can just join right away.

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I would not remake the game but rather make a reimagining where I basically change the game to the point where it is Fe4 except it not being FE4. Inspired by the memes of the remakes being ruined by a remake.
-Supports
-More to the story of Sigurd and Deirdre
-Making the Spirit forest it's own map
-Making a final boss-map against a revived Lopt if Julia is dead before the normal final boss is beaten
-Making kids and substitutes coexist
-Making kids exist even when the mother was not married(In which case, the father is just unmentioned)
-Making kids have the hair and eyecolor of the father if they have one.
-Rewriting the story to remove mentions of death and weird sibling-relationships
-FE5 mechanics
-Introducing backstorycontent of the academy.
-further changes that would bloat the list immensely.
Basically, I would go for gold with making the game as whacky as possible.

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11 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Simple. Having characters that are present in both generations is interesting. Additionally trainee units(which they'd obviously be) are a fun concept. 

I quite liked the manga interpretation of Shanan where he was trained into quite the good swordsmen by Ayra and Lex, and actually fought Manfroy to protect Deirdre. Right after Deirdre's kidnapping would be a good time for him to join. Oifey can just join right away.

While cool in concept, and muti-gen characters being cool, it would end up either breaking the game  or screwing players over. The reason Finn works cross-gen is that he doesn't have holy blood, so his growths while decent won't make him too OP, he leaves halfway through gen 1 so its very tough to over level him past promotion and he's lancelocked in a game where swords are stupid good. 

Oifey would hit level 30 easily in your scenario and Shannan wouldn't be too far off so the only way to prevent MAX level Jeigan and lvl 23 Balmung man would be to arbitrarily level cap them, which would eliminate their function as snowball units. You could make their bases total garbage but that would only force players to hyperlevel so that they aren't deadweight in gen 2. 

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On 12/4/2020 at 4:06 AM, Yexin said:

lmao that would be awesome, i'd like to use Helswath

 

by the way, i never quite realized that adding a new female character in genealogy implies adding 4 new characters (2 children + 2 substitutes) as well

uh, not 4 but 6 new more characters

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  • Make infantry useful. I don't know how they'd go about doing it, but give the player a real reason to use units other than cavalry.
  • Free trading. The current trading system is unnecessarily tedious. I strongly dislike it.
  • Make doubling speed-reliant again. Having it tied to a skill makes other units objectively less useful in a way that actively discourages the player from training them.
  • Let Sigurd remain the godly unit he is. Having an OP unit to use is always fun.
  • But along with that, give the other units as much potential to be good.
  • Support convos, base convos...basically anything to make me care about the cast of characters.
  • More and more varied map objectives and activities. The map size can work if there's more interesting stuff to do.
  • Keep the save system. It's perfect as is. I don't want to have stretches of time where I can't save.
  • With that said, split the castle seizing up into multiple parts within one chapter a la PoR Ch. 17.
  • Yeah, I wouldn't mind an avatar. I think, of all the older FE games, FE4 wouldn't be hurt by having an avatar character so long as they don't dominate the story.
  • Change the plot points involving child sacrifice and incest. Controversial, I know, but I don't think the story is changed all that much by removing iffy bits like that. I don't see them releasing an FE4 remake without changing it anyway, tbh.

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Or have the avatar either die or betray SIgurd. Then their child who would be( I want to say the opposite gender but at the same time we need something different) or the gender of your choosing.

I think having Naga blood would be cool but the Loptyr just no. If Naga have it be minor and a distant relative to Deirdre through her father like an uncle or aunt or something.

For Second Gen: Remove most of the substitutes(except the Tailtiu niece and nephew) because they offer nothing to the story.

Change Lester's hair color because how tf is his hair blue if his dad(in my canon) is Midayle. Did she cheat.

Remove the incest and child sacrifice. 

And give Julia someone to S support that's not Seliph.

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On 12/3/2020 at 10:34 AM, OutcastsofRelix said:

Make Lewyn x Erinys one of the canon pairings Fe5 did it so can this remake

Azelle x Tailtiu  maybe canon

Please, no. Part of the fun, and the replayability, of the game is customizing pairings. Canonizing certain pairings just limits the options for players. For my part, I did Lewyn x Tiltyu and Claude x Erinys in my last playthrough, and was quite satisfied with both pairings.

Anyway, here are a few changes I'd make:

- Add some new weapons. Killer Lance, Hammer, Killer Axe, and Longbow, at the bare minimum.

- Yewfelle now has 2~3 range. Gae Bolg now grants Pursuit to its wielder.

- Rebalance tomes. All Wind spells lose 2 Mt, and all Fire spells gain 2 Mt. Legendary tomes excepted.

- Magic swords now cast spells at 1-range, as well. The Light Brand and Earth Sword are now A-rank.

- The Luck stat now mitigates enemy Crit chances, at a 1:1 ratio.

- Random chance skills are now deterministic. Adept always activates, on the first strike, when initiating against a slower enemy. Luna activates when the sword's durability ends in "9" or "1". Sol, when it ends in "8" or "2". Astra, when it ends in "5". Great Shield always activates against the enemy's first strike, when under attack.

- Sol, Luna, and Astra can now be passed down to any infantry unit. However, it is lost on promotion to a mounted class.

- There's now an "interstitial" period between chapters. This features worldbuilding, the Armory, certain support conversations, and the Arena. The Arena "gauntlet" is cut down to 5 rounds per chapter, to somewhat reduce tedium. Some conversations will still happen mid-chapter, and you can heal your units at castles mid-turn, as well as pawn-broking.

On 12/3/2020 at 4:11 PM, L3xandr3 said:
  • Holy Weapons usable by Minor Bloods, but with 1/2 stat boosts
  • The last time you face a Holy Weapon, it drops so you can use it
  • Buying and selling Holy Weapons

I'm here for all of this.

- Add some differentiation to hair colors. Like, Midayle can have darker green hair than Lewyn, while Claude's hair can be paler than other blonde characters.

- Change hair colors of father-dependent children, to match their fathers. I.e. Jamke!Lester will have brown hair, while Azel!Patty is a redhead.

- Limit saving to once for every castle siezed. You can use the Turnwheel to go back, ad infinitum. But, doing so sabotages one of your rankings. With "Survival", the "Combat" ranking is somewhat redundant. So it's replaced with a "Fortitude" ranking. S if you never turnwheel, A up to 3 times, B up to 6 times, C up to 12 times, D up to 24 times, E beyond that.

- By the way, endgame rankings now run E through S. The Overall ranking is the average, rounded down. So an S overall demands S across the board.

- Crusader Scrolls are introduced, as a New Game+ feature. When it's in the unit's inventory, it boosts their growths (per Minor Blood), and increases relevant skill levels.

- Rather than the "50 kills to Critical", each weapon gets a new effect at 10, 30, and 50 kills. 10 grants a repositional (Shove on Swords, Draw Back on Tomes, Reposition on Lances, Smite on Axes, and Swap on Bows). 30 grants Critical (equal to the Skill stat, can stack with innate Critical skills). And 50 grants another weapon-specific combat skill.

- I have more that I could propose, but I think that's more than enough for now! Let me know what you think.

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Late to this thread, but definitely some ways to make the game less tedious.  I think the gameplay of FE4 is really fun for a first playthrough and for a ranked run, but other than that, it can be hard to want to play casually.  Make the arena super fast,  make enemy phases skippable, make movement animations faster, and make less cutscenes have foot units move at a snail's pace.

I honestly think that more so than Gaiden, Genealogy is such a rock solid base to make a remake on that all they would need to satisfy me is a remastered soundtrack, voice acted cutscenes for the key events, and more characterization for the cast (I actually like how SoV did this without overloading the game with supports).

sylvia moment.jpeg

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Oh right, can't believe i forgot it:

  • If an unit gives money to their lover (That or they're a Thief), you can choose how much money exactly you give instead of always giving all your money;
  • To add to that, there is also a new "Give Item" command to Thieves and lovers that allows you to send one item of one unit's inventory to another, it's not full-on trading as FE4 is balanced around units having personal inventories and money, but it would still give more options to the game without going over the line.

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Other than fixing bugs which would obviously not be a thing in a remake: 

Adding some skills

Spreading the skills out some more 

Modify the leadership system a bit. Not sure, but maybe it should also affect skill activation% ? Perhaps raise critical rate? Dunno yet.

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Note: I haven't played the original. I'd really like to, but I just can't bring myself to. I've tried watching LPs, but I always get bored by the amount of grinding at the arena. That doesn't mean I dislike or don't respect the game, or that I don't want the best for a remake, it's simply that my perspective is different. 

 

Most of the things I'd like are QoL updates: easy trading, supports, branched promotions, etc. I'm aware some of these changes would be hard for older players to accept, but I think they're necessary to bring FE4 into the modern age. Battalions would come back also. 

EDIT: An animal-shifter would be really cool to see. I love Panne, Keaton, and Velouria; Lethe is one of the few tsundere characters I like, and Volug is the man! But only if it makes sense, or there is a role they can play. 

 

Things I worry about:

1. The replacement characters. Shipping is a big thing now, and pairing up characters will almost be a guarantee, not an option. So there's this second cast of characters that players WILL want to recruit, but have to lose out on other characters for? No thanks. What I would do is make those optional units available to all, but their recruitment differs depending on that first generation. If you didn't marry the required mother, the replacement children will join like the mother's children would - aka just like in FE4 as far as I know. However, if you did pair the mother, you'd have to go to a certain location on the map to recruit them. Yes, this means that the character roster would be enormous, but that's fine.

The other thing a remake could do is work the replacement children into a third generation, but I'd rather them not do that. 

 

2. An Avatar. I personally don't mind avatar characters as a whole, but I do understand the ire. My compromise would be to turn an already existing character into an svatar. My top choices are Oifey, allowing him to go from observer in Part 1 to active participant, or Finn. In either case, the character would have to have the two gender options, and I think Oifey is by far the safer choice here. This also lets one have a child unit without killing the first Avatar (which could work, but it also might be too much for newcomers). If that doesn't want to be done, then an avatar is the next best thing, so long as they're like Robin for the first 2/3 of Awakening (active and present, but not the main character). 

 

Now, to my far more controversial and quite frankly hated changes I'd add:

1. An FE 4/5 combined remake. I'm coming at this from a story perspective, not a gameplay one - I'm looking presenting the Jugdral story as one epic saga in the vein of Icelandic sagas and the like (which also happen to provide inspiration to FE4's story, theme, and naming). I think that having Part 1 be Sigurd's story, Part 2 be Leif's story, and having everything wrap up in Seliph's story as Part 3 would be really cool. From a writing perspective, working on both games at once allows writers to correct any continuity problems that existed in the original versions and not repeat them. (Think of it like having any future Star Wars OT remakes erasing the kiss between Luke and Leia because of what we now know.) 

Now to address the gameplay perspective - yes, I'm aware of how different FE4 and FE5 are. My thinking was that the change in style would not only force players to adapt to a new style of gameplay, but to help them carry over smarter tactics to the final part. There would be no more "Throw Sigurd/Ayra/XYZ Strong Character at a problem and see it solved." Players would now have to think about strategy and go from there. 

From a meta-gaming perspective, I think it also provides a nice change in pace while still progressing the story. You see, when I get burnt out on a Fire Emblem game, I switch to a different FE game (or a different game entirely) to refresh myself. I think that switching up the gameplay here would allow players to decompress from the scope of Part 1 and come back refreshed and reinvigorated. 

Also, after beating the game once, players will be able to pick which Part they'd like to replay. So if you want to play Sigurd or Seliph's story, you'll be able to do that.* If you only want to play Leif's story, you'll be able to do that too. 

All of this would be work to create the title of the remake - Fire Emblem Echoes: The Jugdral Saga

2. To go off of the above, I want an FE4 remake to be framed as a story told by a father to his daughter as a bedtime story. That way we can see the censored, fairytale version as well as the gritty, real version. This helps highlight the juxtaposition between the censored historical stories we tell ourselves versus the reality of the situation. This would also work with NG+ and the romance either, as the changes made for those things are simply the father retelling the story in a slightly different way to keep his daughter entertained.** There's another reason I'll get to in a bit.

3. Making Ares Edligan and Lachesis' child. Yes, this means more incest in a game already filled with it, but I'd like to see how it's explored. How would Edligan's wife feel about this? Would Edligan be trying to close up the proverbial Pandora's Box? How would this fact affect Lachesis' relationships with other men (more-so than her worship of her brother already does)? How would Ares feel if the people he originally fought against were his half-siblings instead of just his cousins? Where is the line of revenge drawn when it's so unjust against your own family? Ultimately, I'd be fine if this change didn't make it into the game, but I'd still like to see it explored: FE4 is a great deconstruction and reconstruction of several FE tropes, and I'd love to finally see the "big brother worship" trope that FE is so fond of finally deconstructed by bringing it to a logical conclusion. 

4. DLC. I want there to be a DLC based off of some of Kaga's Part 3 notes. I have a feeling it'd end up like Awakening and Fates' DLCs, where when there was an interaction between a parent and a child, the dialogue would differ based who who the father or mother was, respectively. This wouldn't be for every child, obviously, but I'd like to see it for at least some. The DLC would be framed as the Daughter who is listening to the "story" not being satisfied with the ending, and wishing for a slightly happier version. This is the story the Father tells. At the end, when the Daughter asks if this new version was true or not, the Father leaves it up for the Daughter to decide and wishes her a good night.***

 

*In this situation, Seliph and all other child units would be the offspring of the couple of your previous playthrough of Sigurd's story. Think of it like the child-supports in Awakening and Fates. When I view a Soleil support in the support log, she has light blue hair, indicating that the last time I recruited her, it was from a Laslow/Azura pairing. If I pair Laslow and Felicia, that profile will change. Likewise, if I skip to Seliph's story and Larcei's father in my previous playthrough was Lex, he will be her father in this new version too. 

**In my head, this is Chrom telling a story to a younger Lucina. It would never be made clear which version of Lucina this is, and there would be only one mention of the mother as not set anything in stone. (I imagine it being Lucina stating that her mother's bedtime story "wasn't very fun," or something along those lines, with Chrom commenting that "telling bed-time stories isn't her mother's strength.) The meta-reason is so we can have Matt Mercer as a narrator. That'd be pretty cool IMO. 

***This would always be left ambiguous and up to the individual to decide.  

 

Edited by Use the Falchion

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the biggest change a remake needs to do, and the only one i feel is absolutely necessary, is an overhaul of the maps. basically every castle seize could be its own chapter, and then some indoor chapters could be added instead of that action being confined to text. one time i did the count in my head and i think we end up with anything from 15 to 19 chapters for both gen 1 and gen 2.

with that done, the following changes are optional, but i would like them:

- changing the class of some characters, and particularly do something about the excess of horse units, which would be unnecessary. in particular, seliph wouldn't need to promote into a horse.

- add modern weapon ranks. holy blood could instead work like prowess/faire skills from 3H, while also adding a weapon rank head start for the character.

- this also means new weapons would need to be added, specially in the realm of magic tomes which are sorely lacking in variety. a full overhaul of might, hit and weight stats for all weapons is needed too, so it's not sword emblem again. i wish weight didn't exist because fates did it best, but i am resigned it would stay in a remake.

- make levels work as the standard 20/20 with actual promotion bonuses. some pre-promotes could stand to be higher levelled unpromoted units this way, like sigurd and quan.

- not sure rings need to be removed because i like them, but consumables absolutely need to be added. vulneraries, stat boosters, etc. one of the things i hated the most in genealogy was having to resort to those churches who stole my money lmao.

- speaking of money, personal money to the extent it existed in genealogy is whack. at the very least, if items and money are going to remain personal, allow characters to give limited amounts of money to each other without being lovers or a thief. also we should be able to pick how much money we are giving.

- SPEAKING OF LOVERS obviously give us a support system, not only for added script, but also so we actually choose our couples instead of having them automatically happen sometimes even when we want replacements, who should obviously stay.

- give us a gen 1 avatar with one same gender kid plus opposite gender replacement if they die single in gen 1.

- holy weapons should be usable by minor blood characters, with reduced might and stat bonuses. those bonuses should be nerfed anyway, specially the book of naga. it could kill an enemy by itself, and that's kind of fucked up lol. also they shouldn't ever be inherited, if that mechanic were to stay. forseti in chapter 6 is Too Much.

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  • Streamline inheritance, trading, and supports
  • Add a hub that's a mixture of Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses and My Castle from Fates that the team can access in-between castles and battles
  • Stills and Animated cutscenes
  • Speaking of Three Houses, I feel like Hilda (FE4)'s name should be changed.
Edited by Morgan--Grandmaster

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