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If you had the chance to remake FE4 what would you add or want to see?


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Maybe adding in some weapons to make the pass down mechanic more flxible/interesting. 

Mages in particular kinda need more weapons, as swords have alot already they are in the lowest priority on weapons needed, but we all know how the devs are, they would add a ton of them. Xd

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Shrinking the maps is an absolute.

The maps are so large, and after taking some castles, it's so customary to see a first time player take a castle, and then find out "oops, here comes an entire army aaaaand Noish's dead". Some maps can be cut up into three or four stages with modern standards.

They also need to consider streamlining supports. 

It's not just about making Seisen better, it's about making Seisen palatable to modern gamers. 

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The map size should remain the same, it's part of the game's identity and what makes it unique. If you're gonna just turn FE4 into a typical FE game like any other, why bother remaking it? They're part of what helps set the game apart from other games in the series whether you enjoy them or not.

What i think should be done about the maps instead is changing tile and enemy layouts, as well as adding some changes to make the sections where you need to backtrack less time-consuming. There are many parts in FE4 where you will have to spend two to three turns literally just moving all of your units to get them close to where the next castle and small group of enemies is. Chapter 2 is specially bad about this with all those forest tiles near the beginning. Spreading the enemy armies out more and changing the terrain layout to make movement from one section to another quicker can help alleviate the time-consuming nature of the large maps without downscalling them.

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44 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

The map size should remain the same, it's part of the game's identity and what makes it unique. If you're gonna just turn FE4 into a typical FE game like any other, why bother remaking it? They're part of what helps set the game apart from other games in the series whether you enjoy them or not.

This. Just... this.

Quote

What i think should be done about the maps instead is changing tile and enemy layouts, as well as adding some changes to make the sections where you need to backtrack less time-consuming. There are many parts in FE4 where you will have to spend two to three turns literally just moving all of your units to get them close to where the next castle and small group of enemies is. Chapter 2 is specially bad about this with all those forest tiles near the beginning. Spreading the enemy armies out more and changing the terrain layout to make movement from one section to another quicker can help alleviate the time-consuming nature of the large maps without downscalling them.

I agree, but given how faithful IS has been with all its remakes, that probably will not happen. Look at Shadow Dragon, FE12, or SoV. In every case, they've proven themselves too faithful. Faithful to the point of detrimentally affecting the game. Mostly map design, but other things too.

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Map size should absolutely not change. What should absolutely change however is the layout and enemy placement. Make me do something to reach the objective and not just walking until armies clash for one turn and then continue walking.

 

One change i would like to see is kids inherting classes and/or weapon ranks they wouldn't have from their parents. This allows for more customization in gen2 and make for some interesting combinations. For example Tinny with Finn as father should get acces to lances instead of swords on promotion.

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Paralogues to bring the parent characters into the game in Part 2. Basically the opposite of what's done in Awakening and Fates as this time its the parents you're grabbing.

Post-game content like Awakening and Sacred Stones. I'm always an advocate for that.

Better break downs in between chapters. The home base really needs fixed and they would surely do that. They also I think more breaks within the chapters. Probably every time you seize a fortress would be a good time for that. There also needs to be better save points. This is clearly not a problem on an emulator, but this would need to be fixed for a remake. I think the map needs to remain the same spirit and not go the traditional FE route though I wouldn't be entirely opposed to it in all honesty.

Make the holy relics (or whatever the weapons were called) unbreakable. Three Houses as we know bares many similarities to Holy War and unfortunately they did this. The reforging system is dumb imo and I barely used it. I do recall the holy weapons being ridiculously powerful, but they need to come with a better solution than the system they had in Three Houses.

Support conversations need fixed, which they have clearly figured out since Awakening so I don't think this'll be an issue.

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On 12/26/2020 at 2:05 AM, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

Speaking of Three Houses, I feel like Hilda (FE4)'s name should be changed.

Oh no. Nonono! Evil Hilda and Lazy Hilda should instead meet up with each other. Or a forging bonds with poor Tailtiu being spooked to find out Hilda got summoned only to find out this Hilda is her new bestie. 

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On 1/2/2021 at 8:29 AM, Murozaki said:

If you're gonna just turn FE4 into a typical FE game like any other, why bother remaking it?

the point of remaking it IS to turn it into a more typical FE game and god knows a) it always needed it to begin with and b) they probably should have done it to gaiden to some extent too. the fire emblem remakes have been way too faithful, we desperately need a remake that actually plays as a new experience, and genealogy is in need of a new playing experience that is less clunky anyway (tears?).

if they are not going to, well, make the game again, then they shouldn't bother with a remake. give us a translated port like dark dragon.

Edited by Axie
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28 minutes ago, Axie said:

the point of remaking it IS to turn it into a more typical FE game and god knows a) it always needed it to begin with and b) they probably should have done it to gaiden to some extent too. the fire emblem remakes have been way too faithful, we desperately need a remake that actually plays as a new experience, and genealogy is in need of a new playing experience that is less clunky anyway (tears?).

if they are not going to, well, make the game again, then they shouldn't bother with a remake. give us a translated port like dark dragon.

I completely disagree. The reason people want to see this game remade is so that new people who can't get into the older games can experience the game for the first time. If your going to change something so inherent to the core identity to the game like the map sizes then It wouldn't even be trying to recreate the same experience as the original. QoL changes are fine, since they would be trying to get new people into the game, but anything that changes something important to the gameplay, story, and worldbuilding (like what the mapsizes do for genealogy) that's when things go to far.

 

If you want a new experience, you should be asking for a new game instead imo.

 

Edit: Also what's with the "(tears?)" remark? It makes you come across as very dismissive and ignorant.

Edited by Whitfield1999
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i don't appreciate being called dismissive and ignorant because i am aware and fine with the fact i am posting an opinion that is unpopular. i will keep using that remark and don't intend it to be dismissive, thank you.

also, i still entirely disagree with your philosophy. new people can experience the game for the first time... with a port, which i would love and play endlessly too. a remake, on the other hand, is supposed to be a new experience. think final fantasy 4, which got both a remake with a different playing experience, and a mostly faithful port that still added QoL features, in a small window of time from each other even, and it was great to have both.

now, if you really want the echoes experience of having only the updated graphics part of a remake, and everything else feel like a port, then you lost me. i mean, "lost" me, i still play it lol, but i'd rather have an actual remake. (and then also a port!)

Edited by Axie
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2 hours ago, Axie said:

i don't appreciate being called dismissive and ignorant because i am aware and fine with the fact i am posting an opinion that is unpopular. i will keep using that remark and don't intend it to be dismissive, thank you.

That's fine, I don't mean any offence when I say that, It just came across that way to me. 

2 hours ago, Axie said:

i don't appreciate being called dismissive and ignorant because i am aware and fine with the fact i am posting an opinion that is unpopular. i will keep using that remark and don't intend it to be dismissive, thank you.

new people can experience the game for the first time... with a port, which i would love and play endlessly too. a remake, on the other hand, is supposed to be a new experience.

2 hours ago, Axie said:

now, if you really want the echoes experience of having only the updated graphics part of a remake, and everything else feel like a port, then you lost me. i mean, "lost" me, i still play it lol, but i'd rather have an actual remake. (and then also a port!)

I guess this is just a difference in what we think a remake should entail... I guess all I can say is that I respect your opinion but I think different.

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- Support convos are an absolute must. I love genealogy and it’s characters and I would love to see them more fleshed out and developed.

- Add some sort of class branching option. Perhaps return to how it was in Awakening and Fates where you have one base class that branches off into two separate classes. I dunno I just feel like more variety in class would be interesting and a fun dynamic to add to the game.

- As a LGBTQ+ person myself I am of course all for Same-sex S ranks. But the problem to implement this you would have to rework the entire 2nd gen. My idea would just be to give every parent one child so no matter what you’d end up with two kids. It wouldn’t be that hard considering most 2nd gen units have a 1st gen counterpart (Claud and Coirpre, Lewyn and Ced, Azelle and Arthur, etc.)

- Some sort of hub between battle like the Garreg Mach in Three Houses. I feel like this gives you a nice area to roam in between battles to regroup and reorganize.

- More characters! Oifey and Shannan could be trainee units like in FE8. Maybe an avatar?

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1 hour ago, _radio_host_ said:

- As a LGBTQ+ person myself I am of course all for Same-sex S ranks. But the problem to implement this you would have to rework the entire 2nd gen. My idea would just be to give every parent one child so no matter what you’d end up with two kids. It wouldn’t be that hard considering most 2nd gen units have a 1st gen counterpart (Claud and Coirpre, Lewyn and Ced, Azelle and Arthur, etc.)

Alternately, it could be a good way to properly integrate the replacement child units by having some them be adopted-They can inherit certain traits, (Equipment, some skills, etc.) but not holy blood and other such traits. To compensate, they could possibly receive a prf weapon or similar unique, defining features to differentiate from their non-replacement counterpart, that way they're not simply downgrades. In practice, I don't know if my idea would actually work, but it could be interesting and do something new with the other half of the child cast.

Edited by Benice
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Premise: in this comment i'll be referring to a generic "you", i don't intend to offend anyone nor dismiss anyone's opinion, we all have ours... but i honestly think some are going a bit too far, to the point of wanting Genealogy's remake to change the game so much it wouldn't even be a Genealogy remake
like entering a pub at night and expecting to be served with a glass of hot milk instead of an alcoholic drink

TBH, the more i read posts in this thread, the more i can't help but wonder how many of those who posted here have actually played Genealogy (except those who specifically said they haven't) and grasped even the smallest amount of lore and gameplay mechanics and balance

like, seriously? allowing minor holy blood characters to use their respective holy weapon? that would basically ruin a pretty big part of Leif's character
heck, it would even ruin some of Genealogy's major plot points: like why would the Loptyrians even need to have a major Loptyr holy blood bearer if either Deirdre or Arvis would be able to wield Loptyr's Tome? why doesn't Oifey wield Tyrfing instead of Seliph? he surely is a more experienced and much better-trained soldier anyway

100% free trading in Genealogy would make the game even more broken than it already (apparently) is, especially if combined with the "minor holy blood units can wield holy weapons as well" thing: the game's full of items which passively grant very big stat boosts, and weapons with unique effects (flame sword, horse slayer and so on), and being able to give them to whoever you want, without any kind of limitation, would be simply absurd
that's why the game indirectly suggests you to obtain those items with the unit you think REALLY needs it
also i could argue that non-free trading allows Genealogy to let players experiment with new builds for every character, without relying on the "grind for skills and stats" systems

about the "personal money" thing, i agree that players should be allowed to decide exactly how much money they want to give, but that's it

lastly, splitting chapters IMO wouldn't really make sense: the 1996 game already allows you to save at the beginning of every turn (a thing i'm pretty confident they'll extend to "whenever you want" in a remake), and also nobody forces you to clear a whole chapter in a single gaming session anyway, so really what is this argument even

 

like, i get you can really dislike Genealogy because it's so different from other FE games, that's perfectly understandable, but at this point... why are you even here? why not posting in a "FE17 Expectations" thread?
as i said, if you dislike Genealogy so much you want it to be a completely different game, then what's the point in remaking it in the first place? what impressions would that kind of remake leave in a new player? "oh yeah it's 3H except Edelgard is male with long red hair and there's no Monastery"
also, for every person who dislikes it for some reasons, it's highly likely there's another one who loves it for the same exact reasons

Edited by Yexin
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10 hours ago, Yexin said:

Premise: in this comment i'll be referring to a generic "you", i don't intend to offend anyone nor dismiss anyone's opinion, we all have ours... but i honestly think some are going a bit too far, to the point of wanting Genealogy's remake to change the game so much it wouldn't even be a Genealogy remake
like entering a pub at night and expecting to be served with a glass of hot milk instead of an alcoholic drink

TBH, the more i read posts in this thread, the more i can't help but wonder how many of those who posted here have actually played Genealogy (except those who specifically said they haven't) and grasped even the smallest amount of lore and gameplay mechanics and balance

like, seriously? allowing minor holy blood characters to use their respective holy weapon? that would basically ruin a pretty big part of Leif's character
heck, it would even ruin some of Genealogy's major plot points: like why would the Loptyrians even need to have a major Loptyr holy blood bearer if either Deirdre or Arvis would be able to wield Loptyr's Tome? why doesn't Oifey wield Tyrfing instead of Seliph? he surely is a more experienced and much better-trained soldier anyway

100% free trading in Genealogy would make the game even more broken than it already (apparently) is, especially if combined with the "minor holy blood units can wield holy weapons as well" thing: the game's full of items which passively grant very big stat boosts, and weapons with unique effects (flame sword, horse slayer and so on), and being able to give them to whoever you want, without any kind of limitation, would be simply absurd
that's why the game indirectly suggests you to obtain those items with the unit you think REALLY needs it
also i could argue that non-free trading allows Genealogy to let players experiment with new builds for every character, without relying on the "grind for skills and stats" systems

about the "personal money" thing, i agree that players should be allowed to decide exactly how much money they want to give, but that's it

lastly, splitting chapters IMO wouldn't really make sense: the 1996 game already allows you to save at the beginning of every turn (a thing i'm pretty confident they'll extend to "whenever you want" in a remake), and also nobody forces you to clear a whole chapter in a single gaming session anyway, so really what is this argument even

 

like, i get you can really dislike Genealogy because it's so different from other FE games, that's perfectly understandable, but at this point... why are you even here? why not posting in a "FE17 Expectations" thread?
as i said, if you dislike Genealogy so much you want it to be a completely different game, then what's the point in remaking it in the first place? what impressions would that kind of remake leave in a new player? "oh yeah it's 3H except Edelgard is male with long red hair and there's no Monastery"
also, for every person who dislikes it for some reasons, it's highly likely there's another one who loves it for the same exact reasons

10/10 post. Couldn't word it better myself if I tried.

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On 1/7/2021 at 5:19 PM, Tetragrammaton said:

Oh please stop inputting LGBT everywhere.

In that era, they would be burnt even before doing anything.

Ok... and?

Fire Emblem is a work of fiction, it’s fantasy. It doesn’t have to follow rules that older societies followed just because it’s loosely based on that time period. Same-sex marriage was in Fates and Three Houses and no characters in game gave a shit. And what’s wrong with have LGBT characters in things? If it were to be implemented into Genealogy it would probably be handled the same way the last two games handled it, an option. If you want to make everyone straight, make everyone straight! No ones going to stop you.

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6 hours ago, _radio_host_ said:

Ok... and?

Fire Emblem is a work of fiction, it’s fantasy. It doesn’t have to follow rules that older societies followed just because it’s loosely based on that time period. Same-sex marriage was in Fates and Three Houses and no characters in game gave a shit. And what’s wrong with have LGBT characters in things? If it were to be implemented into Genealogy it would probably be handled the same way the last two games handled it, an option. If you want to make everyone straight, make everyone straight! No ones going to stop you.

If you ask me, Hannibal is the only possible gay character you can get.

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On 1/7/2021 at 8:19 PM, Tetragrammaton said:

Oh please stop inputting LGBT everywhere.

In that era, they would be burnt even before doing anything.

what we are not gonna do is a) talk about LGBT people like we are an unwanted spice in your food instead of people that exist and should be acknowledged, and b) suddenly care about realism in a game where there's a massive child-sacrificing cult led by a dude looking to revive a dark god through some kid. "that era"? sorry, i don't think any of us are versed in the situation of human rights of mid-late 700s jugdral.

my reservation is that none of the characters were even subtexted to be LGBT in this game, which is unfortunate, but i don't want a remake to change that just because. if there was someone like leon, it'd be great (and i like that echoes went there a bit), but alas. that IS the kind of thing we can indeed demand of newer games, though.

back to gameplay: i think splitting the chapters is the only thing that would truly make this a different experience anyway. anything else is actually minor in comparison and more likely to be kept as is either way. i am rethinking "holy weapons for minor blood" now because of the story implications, though. it wouldn't be HARD to justify manfroy still needing someone with major loptyr,  but it's still an unnecessary hassle probably.

Edited by Axie
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On 1/5/2021 at 3:46 PM, Whitfield1999 said:

I completely disagree. The reason people want to see this game remade is so that new people who can't get into the older games can experience the game for the first time. If your going to change something so inherent to the core identity to the game like the map sizes then It wouldn't even be trying to recreate the same experience as the original. QoL changes are fine, since they would be trying to get new people into the game, but anything that changes something important to the gameplay, story, and worldbuilding (like what the mapsizes do for genealogy) that's when things go to far.

 

If you want a new experience, you should be asking for a new game instead imo.

 

Edit: Also what's with the "(tears?)" remark? It makes you come across as very dismissive and ignorant.

While I've not played Genealogy myself, maybe just splitting some of the early game maps up/offering ways to actually let armor knights move quickly (A new warp staff but it can only be used for armour knights?) maybe would help.

Or if they wanna go the extra mile, have the lower difficulties make the maps smaller but the harder ones actually still have the large maps. (though FE seems very reluctuant to have difficulty change stuff like that.)

 

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12 hours ago, Axie said:

what we are not gonna do is a) talk about LGBT people like we are an unwanted spice in your food instead of people that exist and should be acknowledged, and b) suddenly care about realism in a game where there's a massive child-sacrificing cult led by a dude looking to revive a dark god through some kid. "that era"? sorry, i don't think any of us are versed in the situation of human rights of mid-late 700s jugdral.

my reservation is that none of the characters were even subtexted to be LGBT in this game, which is unfortunate, but i don't want a remake to change that just because. if there was someone like leon, it'd be great (and i like that echoes went there a bit), but alas. that IS the kind of thing we can indeed demand of newer games, though.

back to gameplay: i think splitting the chapters is the only thing that would truly make this a different experience anyway. anything else is actually minor in comparison and more likely to be kept as is either way. i am rethinking "holy weapons for minor blood" now because of the story implications, though. it wouldn't be HARD to justify manfroy still needing someone with major loptyr,  but it's still an unnecessary hassle probably.

Don't worry, you will get a LGBT character in the remake anyway, either you really like it or not.

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The map sizes and mechanics really need to stay the same because those are the things that make Genealogy so unique.

When you receive a droppable item I think it should be sent to a convoy that anyone can access at castles (not the personal convoys). Also you can choose how much money you are giving, although you could grind up your thief by having them give 1G every turn.

If they make castles like the monastery they shouldn't be any bigger than Abyss.

Classes could stand to be better balanced, mostly by buffing axes and lances compared to swords. Same goes for fire and thunder magic. In terms of balancing movement types, I think the Rescue command should be added. This would help unmounted units by letting them get to the action quicker, but also give some of the mounted units with mediocre combat (like Alec or Naoise) something to do other than chip every now and then. Also Hero should get Axes (probably B rank) on promotion.

I don't think supports would be all that necessary because it would mean every lady would need to support with every guy, including Finn with Tailtyu and Brigid. I do think a lot more talk conversations could be included though, as well as base conversations. There should also be a conversation for when two characters marry each other, and obviously it shouldn't be automatic like it is in the original game.

A way to tell green units what to do like in the Tellius games.

Recruitable Arion in Endgame.

I think it would be cool if when characters marry each other, they can take one skill from their husband/wife, so I can get Pursuit on Lewyn or Astra on a mounted unit. This would mean some characters like Edain and Claud need skills to offer though.

It would also be cool if there was a NG+ system that includes reclassing where a unit can reclass based on their parents and husband/wife. So on the first playthrough no one can reclass, but on playthrough 2 units can reclass based on who they married and who their parents were in the previous playthrough, as well as who they are in the current playthrough. For example, on my first playthrough I could have Azel marry Erin, and no one would be able to reclass since it's the first playthrough. Then in Gen 2 I could marry Fee to Beowulf!Dermott. Then on the NG+ playthrough, I could have Lewyn marry Erin. Both of them would have access to the Bard, Pegasus Knight and Mage->Mage Knight classes. In Gen 2, their kids would have access to the same classes as them plus their previous spouses available classes, until they marry again, then they will get their new spouses' available classes. For example, Fee would get Bard, Pegasus Knight and Mage->Mage Knight from her parents, and Sword Knight and Princess from Dermott. Then I could have her marry someone like Seliph or Ares to allow them to reclass to Master Knight. And then after a bunch of playthroughs you could have everyone be a Master Knight. It's true that would be busted but I mean who cares.

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Some QoL stuff should definitely be in order:

  • Trading should be done like any other FE. If any weapon become overpowered as a result, then either nerf it accordingly or put a limit to who can wield it. Don't put arbitrary limitations on logistics involving supplies or financial transactions that aren't considered standard FE features. It doesn't make sense that you can't just physically walk up to your comrade and trade stuff with them. (One case which I can maybe buy the justification is if this had been discouraged/forbidden historically by doctrine or regulations...) Maybe as a compromise, allow a personal convoy vs a castle/barracks convoy, where you can only have 20-30 items for the former vs 200-300 for the latter.
  • Incorporate Fates-style Pair Ups or Rescue to allow for speedy transport of infantry units, or maybe don't have such move differences between cavalry and infantry in the first place. Maybe even differentiate Rescue vs Pair Up (the former protects the back unit from all enemy attacks, but the latter gives bonuses instead of penalties).

As for the gameplay involving worldbuilding/storytelling:

  • The maps probably should stay as they are - this is an epic war story and the chapters should be treated as such. As a compromise, at least lower-level difficulties should incorporate minor and major checkpoints throughout the chapters where you can freely do the following:
    • Minor Checkpoints
      • Save the game
      • Access the convoy
      • Trade between units
      • Basic purchases from stores or visiting merchants
      • Basic weapon forging
      • Support conversations
    • Major checkpoints allows the following in addition to whats allowed in minor checkpoints
      • Bigger range of purchases and forging available from stores or merchants
      • Barracks training for bonus weapon skills or experience points
      • Accept side quests
  • Because of the huge scale of the chapters and maps, have the units lead batallions like in 3H.

Finally, for the minority of people who plays FE to some extent who wants to play the original, either release the original game on the VC or provide an option to play the game in Classic Mode. Because let's face it, how many of us did play stuff pre-Awakening? And how much have gaming been streamlined since FE4 or even Awakening? And we (particularly purists) from Serenes Forest are how many people out of everyone who play FE, based on sales of copies? I can bet you, the number to the former would probably be tens of thousands at best, while the latter would definitely be at the very least a million, if not more. Also, the arbitrary trading method is listed up as a Scrappy Mechanic in the other wiki - you be the judge.

Edited by henrymidfields
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