If you had the chance to remake FE4 what would you add or want to see?

[Use the Falchion]

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

So it is not and never was a game that was designed to save everyone.

Not being able to save Sigurd's generation doesn't have an impact on who you should be able to save in Seliph's though. The "can't save everyone" is fine for a narrative choice like the loss of Sigurd's generation is, but the replacement characters are a gameplay function, not a narrative one in the way that Sigurd's gen is. And it's a gameplay function that no longer represents what people care about with their units. Again, people care as much about who their units are paired with for shipping purposes as much as they do how the unit will turn out. Those pulls get stronger with each game. Ignoring that, relegating a whole cast of characters to a role that they don't have to be in exclusively...I can't understand it. 

 

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

And just mechanically your idea is unviable as the whole point is to have more supports which you just can't do if half of the entire cast is going to be benched.

I mean, you take out the characters whose supports you want to grind, grind them, and send them back into the castle. I wrote up a whole system about how that could work. And it's not like the game will be exclusively battling. Awakening, Fates, and Three Houses all contained some non-battle ways to increase support levels, even between characters you don't use in battle. What makes you think that an FE 4 remake would shirk that system, especially if the features of the castle may be expanded upon?

The problem is that those supports will most likely be there anyways, because it'll look really bad if they aren't. IntSys has gotten a modicum of flak for their Avatar-sexual characters; and replacement characters only being able to support other replacement characters is no better. Besides, the lover system is probably going to be reworked into supports anyways (or at least it should be), and characters like Tristan already have that system built in with the regular characters as well. Adding in a few more for same-sex supports as well as for the replacements to talk to their counterparts isn't really that much more in the scheme of things. 

 

Look, @Jotariat the end of the day, we're probably not going to see eye-to-eye. I'm fine with that if you are. 

 

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

Genealogy is a very different game and is built the way it's built for a reason.

It was built for a reason that no longer needs to apply. Sure, it can still with the original route, and that's fine, but I simply cannot believe that to be the best way going forward. It's not fair to the single-playthrough players, it doesn't really add anything to the Awakening/Fates fans, and it doesn't take away from anything else other than the ability to use all of ones units at once. (Which really isn't a problem since there will be more than enough room for people's favorites.)

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Not being able to save Sigurd's generation doesn't have an impact on who you should be able to save in Seliph's though. The "can't save everyone" is fine for a narrative choice like the loss of Sigurd's generation is, but the replacement characters are a gameplay function, not a narrative one in the way that Sigurd's gen is. And it's a gameplay function that no longer represents what people care about with their units. Again, people care as much about who their units are paired with for shipping purposes as much as they do how the unit will turn out. Those pulls get stronger with each game. Ignoring that, relegating a whole cast of characters to a role that they don't have to be in exclusively...I can't understand it. 

 

I mean, you take out the characters whose supports you want to grind, grind them, and send them back into the castle. I wrote up a whole system about how that could work. And it's not like the game will be exclusively battling. Awakening, Fates, and Three Houses all contained some non-battle ways to increase support levels, even between characters you don't use in battle. What makes you think that an FE 4 remake would shirk that system, especially if the features of the castle may be expanded upon?

The problem is that those supports will most likely be there anyways, because it'll look really bad if they aren't. IntSys has gotten a modicum of flak for their Avatar-sexual characters; and replacement characters only being able to support other replacement characters is no better. Besides, the lover system is probably going to be reworked into supports anyways (or at least it should be), and characters like Tristan already have that system built in with the regular characters as well. Adding in a few more for same-sex supports as well as for the replacements to talk to their counterparts isn't really that much more in the scheme of things. 

 

Look, @Jotariat the end of the day, we're probably not going to see eye-to-eye. I'm fine with that if you are. 

 

It was built for a reason that no longer needs to apply. Sure, it can still with the original route, and that's fine, but I simply cannot believe that to be the best way going forward. It's not fair to the single-playthrough players, it doesn't really add anything to the Awakening/Fates fans, and it doesn't take away from anything else other than the ability to use all of ones units at once. (Which really isn't a problem since there will be more than enough room for people's favorites.)

If someone cares so much about grinding supports for every single unit in the game, then they're probably also the kind of person that's going to play the game a second time to do so.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 3/16/2021 at 7:00 PM, Use the Falchion said:

I totally understand that, and definitely sympathize. But I think for these characters it'd be a necessary sacrifice. To me the "life-or-retreat" means the same as "life-or-death" because I treat it the same. Unless I'm told explicitly that my characters won't die, like in the first two three-army battles in Three Houses, then I treat every loss as a death. But I also have friends who want to play FE but get major anxiety about losing units. "Life-or-retreat" is a solid compromise for them. In this case (unless the player is on Casual Mode), it's not like the mothers would be playable after battling. They wouldn't be able to use in any way, shape, or form. But since their children may be needed by players, they can't die in the story. 

I honestly feel worse about characters retreating, and vanishing from the field of battle and pages of history, than those who die in battle. In the former case, they're forced unto a life of mediocrity, and of being forgotten. In the latter, they laid down their life for a cause they believed in. If anything, I'd like to see more "honoring the dead" - like the lines in Echoes, when a close ally perishes.

On 3/16/2021 at 7:00 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Which is great and fine if you willingly go into these sorts of challenges. Shouldn't gameplay challenges be done with the foreknowledge of those seeking to overcome them? 

A Genealogy remake is probably going to beat the player over the head with a pairing tutorial. And give the player plenty of options to keep units alive (whether every-turn saves, or a turnwheel system). I see going into Gen II with few surviving pairings more likely to be a conscious choice, than an accident, in a potential remake.

On 3/16/2021 at 7:00 PM, Use the Falchion said:

And It's one thing to know you're going to be using suboptimal units, it's another thing to discover you're going to be using them after sacrificing other characters you might like for them. And ultimately I don't think that's how many casual players play Fire Emblem. They play as much for the ships and romance as they do for the units, and the incentive of "there's a new cast of characters that may not be as good" isn't as enticing as "this different story route allows you to meet new characters AND recruit your favorites while also revealing different things about the world." The joy doesn't come from NOT pairing and seeing what happens, but seeing what pairs open up play styles for new units. Yes, this is the fault of Awakening and Fates. But since that's what people know and like, shouldn't any future FE game build on that in terms of mechanics? 

I'd still rather have the former, than the latter. "Secret characters" that I missed the first time sound a lot more enticing than omni-present substitutes who now coexist with their "cooler" counterparts. And I'm not sure why Awakening and Fates are brought up here. They're set on very different continents, with different ganeplay systems and aesthetic sensibilities, than what Jugdral offers. I think the differences among games set in different times and places should be retained, rather than smoothed over for the sake of consistency. Like, Fates and Echoes both radically reworked the weapon system, and I found it refreshing and exciting, in both cases.

[Kalken]

I'd be interested in seeing a remake incorporate any elements from the manga and novelizations. Like:

-Julius being more or less a vampire who even has a vampire bride who survives past his death.

-Loptous having a chapter showing his deal with Galle so long ago.

-Johan and Yohalvier having a Isaachian mother.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Kalken said:

I'd be interested in seeing a remake incorporate any elements from the manga and novelizations. Like:

-Julius being more or less a vampire who even has a vampire bride who survives past his death.

What 0.o ??? As in he has another girlfriend other than Ishtar, or Ishtar's a vampire in the manga

Quote

-Loptous having a chapter showing his deal with Galle so long ago.

Memory Prisms! Memory Prisms! Memory Prisms!

Quote

-Johan and Yohalvier having a Isaachian mother.

I actually really like this idea. Makes sense given their ages at that Danan has been ruling there since the end of the first Gen. Also gives them some justifications to have sword master as a class change. It'd also make a bit more sense why Brian is off home in Dozel. Not that that needs a massive explaining given someone needs to rule Dozel, but that Danan's heir is in his duchy rather than in his own new kingdom is just a tad strange. Though funnily enough, this would make Johan and Yohalvier (do they really use both Y and J in the official translation?) half brothers with Brian, despite Brian being basically the only enemy sibling that isn't a half brother (well excepting Julius and Julia, though Julius is still Seliph's half brother, and of course excepting whichever you don't pick between Johan and Yohalvier). And while I like it here, I always found it a bit of a cop out that some extra info somewhere confirms Lex and Andrey and the like were half siblings instead of full blood. It's sort of saying "Oh they're only evil/good because they're not fully related to the good/evil guys". Though for Brian that wouldn't necessarily follow as he's depicted somewhat sympathetically as an enemy, being someone who's just fighting for their family without the proper context as to what's been happening in the wider world.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Jotari

[Kalken]

Julius being a vampire is in Genealogy of the Holy War's novelization by Genichiro Suzuki . It was from Loptous taking residence in his being since Earth Dragons within that universe had to consume blood to stay alive. The bride is another woman who Julius had an affair with that he converted into a vampire who survives the war and holds herself up in a manor over the passage of time. Until she meets a descendant of Ares.

You can find links to translations here:

https://four-loose-screws.tumblr.com/post/158382266965/fire-emblem-novel-translations

There are other interesting deviations like Sigurd, Quan, and Eldigan out riding one day when they meet a trio of witches who more or less spoil Genealogy's plot.

As for manga ideas, there are:

-There both being a chapter going over Manfroy's past where he almost gets executed when he visits the surface out of curiosity and a chapter where during Seliph's army occupation of Yied townsfolk drag in a Loptousian who gets executed.

-Pamela and Daccar being shown more sympathetically (the first actually showing remorse over killing Annand and giving her rival's lance to her sister, the 2nd being moved by Lewyn playing with Forseti's aid then committing suicide) alongside Lombard giving more info on what drove him to side with Arvis' conspriacy (Lombard claimed that it wasn't fair that even though the Crusaders beat the empire together their descendants had some that were favored over others) later commending Lex for his path in life once dying and Reptor showing regret once Tailtiu chewed him out then going off to turn himself in for the conspiracy only for Aida to kill him.

I left out the remake rewriting Trabant's character to be more in line with how Kaga envisioned him to be apparently.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Kalken said:

There are other interesting deviations like Sigurd, Quan, and Eldigan out riding one day when they meet a trio of witches who more or less spoil Genealogy's plot.

 

Okay, they're just straight out plagiarizing Shakespere, and given that Sigurd is a tragic character, but absolutely not a Macbeth style over ambitious tragic character, I expect they were writing that parallel without fully grasping why. Course I shouldn't judge too harshly without reading it.

[Kalken]

https://garms-translations.tumblr.com/post/168328088938/the-three-witches

It was this ministory. The exchange is here:

“Don’t worry, we will tell you. But before that, we shall first tell you about your future.”

“Pardon me, but…future? Sorry, but I must decline. If I knew what the future had in store for me, then life wouldn’t be as interesting anymore, would it?”

“Hey, what’s taking you all?” Sigurd asked this time as he entered.

“Oh, you must be Lord Sigurd of Chalphy.”

“Yes, I am. It’s a pleasure to meet you. By the way, would you happen to know the way out of…”

“I believe I’ve already said that I’ll tell you, haven’t I?”

“You have my thanks. So, then. In which direction should we head?”

“Don’t be in such a hurry. First, let me offer up my congratulations to you, father of the future king of Grannvale,” Elle said, seemingly in a hurry herself.

“Don’t be ridiculous. Only those who inherit the blood of Naga can take the Grannvale throne.”

“Oh, there’s no mistaking it; this crystal ball sees all. You, Prince of Leonster; your child shall become the king of the united kingdom consisting of Leonster and Thracia. Even the tides can turn on a losing battle. Your child’s children, and their descendants after that, will continue to succeed the throne,” Zylle said.

“And last but not least, King of Nordion. Your child shall become the ruler of a united Agustria. How wonderful,” Meiche told Eldigan.

The three knights just stared at each other, speechless.

Here are the short stories talking about Julius' transformation and his vampire bride:

https://garms-translations.tumblr.com/post/168073844388/my-child-loptyr

https://garms-translations.tumblr.com/post/179067263658/vampire

Edited March 19, 2021 by Kalken

[Jugdral >>>]

I have some suggestions, although mine are a bit subdued. (Not really).

 

What I DO want

• Map balancing, as in--breaking up the map into chapters. Someone alluded to this on the first page by having the Ayra recruitment mess and Edain/Dew's escape be it's own chapter, the middle section and perhaps Spirit Forest be it's own, and the eventual capture of Verdane where you silence Sandima be it's very own map. This would also help the issue of Infantry units needing to keep up with Calvary units.
   
• A revamped love system. Give us the C-B-A-S supports, even if you restrict certain female units to certain male characters, then by all means. All female characters already have canonical suitors right? I know Lachesis has Beowulf, Finn, Noish, and Dew. She does not have unique conversations with any other male characters, so making Arden or Azelle impossible for her to romance, for the sake of including supports is fine by me. It also helps the player decide which pairings they want without RNG butting in.
   
• Personal skills for each character would be nice, and would make even kids in the suckiest of pairings have some of niche depending on how you use them. Other than that, I just really like the idea of having more skills and differentiating units from one another.
   
• Giving enemies their own skills would be nice too, and would make for a bigger challenge but maybe regulate this to one army at a time, as I can imagine checking every single enemy for what skills they have to be extremely tedious in a game like FE4.
   
• More dialogue between Sigurd and Oifey, if nothing else. And while I know it's typical for the lords in FE to not interact with their army after their initial recruitment chapters, and only speak with key characters--it'd be nice if we were able to see a bit of him building relationships with his soldiers making their decision to stay with him in Chapter 5 that much more impactful. Maybe this could be added with platonic supports, exclusive to some characters. A Sigurd and Quan support immediately comes to mind, a Deirdre and Ethlyn support, Midir and Jamke support, Noish and Alec support...and so on, and so forth.
   
• A total rehaul of Gen 2's story and character designs. They had to retcon a lot of things with time constraints, and reduce to the story to make exposition and info dumps instead of letting it flow naturally like Gen 1 did. I feel like Gen 2 could benefit a lot from show not tell, as having Lewyn/Foresti give the run down to Seliph on every little thing makes stuff quite boring. Chapter 6 & 7 didn't really have this problem, narratively, but Chapter 8 and beyond...yes. As for character designs, I really don't think I need to elaborate much on this. They REALLY could stand to give bosses their unique designs instead of Gen 1 edits and recolors, as well as make Ares look slightly different from Eldigan. CIPHER did this well, and made Ares look like his own younger character with his father's haircut.
   
• Give Julia her own character arc. Don't Celica her, please. It's 2021-2022, not 1996 where female characters have to be reduced to uninterested side pieces to the male protagonist, or have a role of a walking plot device, that doesn't really do anything impactful. I know Kaga would disagree heavily with me, and probably suggest the opposite and that Julia be a maid in the remake, buuuuuut I think it'd be nice if her past with Julius and her relationship with her mother and father was elaborated on, as well as the "accident", and her growing her resolve to put an end to her brother's madness as the story progresses.
   
• Oh, and make Seliph and Julia an actual coupling option, not a glitch

What I DON'T want

• No Avatar, please. This is not the game for it...but if an Avatar does get added, I will begrudgingly accept it as I try to get Sigurd to commit adultery with me. Or keep my thirst reserved until Chapter 4 when he's a widow (yeah, yeah that's insensitive I know. sorry.)
   
• Leave the the economy ALONE! Do not add trading! I want units to have their own money (until married of course), and I want to be able to micromanage and make plans for my future children's inheritance like I already do in the current FE4. Maybe put some systems in place to make it a bit easier to earn money outside of Arena, and Dew risking his life to bring characters who can't fight in Arena some coin, but I can't seem to come up with any ways at the moment.
   
• This is probably a contradiction to my take on skills, but I'd still like there to be obvious power differences between units. Sigurd being OP, Noish being competent, and Alec sucking when it comes to combat is fine by me. Some people are just more competent than others when it comes to certain things. That's how the world works! Though if Alec got a personal skill, that gave him a niche outside of combat, like providing support to other units, or some other utility like being able to build supports with female units faster then that'd be A-OK.
   
• No censorship, please. If you have to go Fire Emblem Fates on us, and give us a watered down story with several supports changed, and even features removed because you think it would help the game sell better, then keep the FE4 remake in the drafts. I'll stick with the original.
   
• Continued from the censorship, no drastic retcons, please. You do not need to revive the whole cast, or have everybody survive the Belhalla massacre and to just be hiding away somewhere. Some survivors like Edain, helping Seliph and his friends in the background is fine, but keep the key cast dead. I might be open to a mass revival after Julius is slain, but it really would depend on how it's done and the consequences that would come from that.

 

I can't really think of anything else, but if I do I'll probably post more of it in the future.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Jugdral >>>

[Benice]

Out of the blue, I wonder if they'd re-add in the third generation of FE4 that was (allegedly) initially supposed to be in the game? It'd be kinda interesting to see what kind of direction they took with it.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 3/18/2021 at 3:29 AM, Jotari said:

Though funnily enough, this would make Johan and Yohalvier (do they really use both Y and J in the official translation?)

Their official translations are Iuchar and Iucharba. Which... I can't stand. Like, I know they're an exercise in fidelity to Irish mythology, especially in relation to Brian. But "Iuchar" looks exactly like the Spanish verb "luchar" (to fight), while "Iucharba" is simar to certain conjugations, like "luchara" or "luchaba". Plus, I have no idea how to pronounce either name.

On 3/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, Jugdral >>> said:

This is probably a contradiction to my take on skills, but I'd still like there to be obvious power differences between units. Sigurd being OP, Noish being competent, and Alec sucking when it comes to combat is fine by me. Some people are just more competent than others when it comes to certain things. That's how the world works! Though if Alec got a personal skill, that gave him a niche outside of combat, like providing support to other units, or some other utility like being able to build supports with female units faster then that'd be A-OK.

Alec doesn't suck, people just forget to give him a stronger weapon than an Iron Sword. I'd say he's superior to Noish, at least, owing to Pursuit. Although, I agree with the general point, that units don't need to all be equally viable.

And Alec doesn't need a particular skill to be a "ladies man", if they just bring back FE4's system of different love growths and bases between pairings.

On 3/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, Jugdral >>> said:

Giving enemies their own skills would be nice too, and would make for a bigger challenge but maybe regulate this to one army at a time, as I can imagine checking every single enemy for what skills they have to be extremely tedious in a game like FE4.

Maybe they could do "Three Houses Maddening Mode" style, where classes of enemies get a particular skill. Say, enemy Wind Mages getting Pursuit, Thunder Mages getting Wrath, and Fire Mages getting Cancel (not an original FE4 skill, but it could be added). That way, you don't have to check every time, once you know the patterns. This could be a good addition to a higher difficulty. 

 

On 3/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, Jugdral >>> said:

A revamped love system. Give us the C-B-A-S supports, even if you restrict certain female units to certain male characters, then by all means. All female characters already have canonical suitors right? I know Lachesis has Beowulf, Finn, Noish, and Dew. She does not have unique conversations with any other male characters, so making Arden or Azelle impossible for her to romance, for the sake of including supports is fine by me. It also helps the player decide which pairings they want without RNG butting in.

I don't see any need to cut out certain pairings, especially if they don't expand the cast. In FE4, Gen I, there are 7 "free" mothers, and 13 "free" fathers, lending to 7 x 13, or 91, total support chains. Compare to Awakening, which (not counting Chrom, Robin, or Sumia) has 10 "free" mothers and 12 "free" fathers, for 10 x 12, or 120 support chains. Those are pretty comparable with one another. 

But if 364 romantic support convos, plus all the platonic ones, are too much, how about this - go with a 3H/GBA hybrid kinda system. Wherein, platonic chains are just C/B, romantic chains are C/B/A, and a unit can only have one A support (establishing their pairing). Then we're at just 273 conversations - a little more than half of Awakening Gen I's 480 romantic-chain convos (again, before counting Chrom, Robin, and Sumia). Add in a C/B/A for Sigurd-Dierdre, and C/B/A for Quan-Ethlyn, we're at 279 convos. Then, say each female unit gets 2 platonic chains (7 x (2/2) x 2 = 14)*, while each male unit gets 4 of them (13 x (4/2) x 2 = 52)*, and we're at 345 conversations. Finally, give Sigurd a platonic chain with everyone in his army but Dierdre (22 x 2 = 44), Ethlyn gets ones with Dierdre and Finn (2 x 2 = 4), and Quan gets ones with Lachesis and Finn (2 x 2 = 4). That's 52 more platonic convos, for... 397 total. Yep, we've done all this while staying below even Awakening's count from the "everyone marries everyone" pool.

*The middle term in these is divided by two, because it's a mutual pool. Imagine that 7 women stand in a circle, each holding the hands of a woman to her left, and one to her right. There are 14 hands here, but only 7 hand-hand unions. In the same way, if each marriageable woman has support chains with 2 of the 6 other marriageable women, then there are only 7 support chains among the women, total.

[Use the Falchion]

@Jotari and @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate sorry I haven't responded. I've been busy with real life stuff...that I'm still busy with... anyways, I'm not sure what the protocol for this is. Do we continue with the discussion, or should we just leave it be and agree to disagree? I'm fine either way, but I'm not sure I'll have time to respond for the next few days here...

 

On 3/20/2021 at 7:25 PM, Benice said:

Out of the blue, I wonder if they'd re-add in the third generation of FE4 that was (allegedly) initially supposed to be in the game? It'd be kinda interesting to see what kind of direction they took with it.

I've had a few thoughts about this. I know some of Kaga's stuff post Seliph's story (finding Lachesis, reviving Tatiliu) would be cool to add in the story proper as a post-game, or if they can't do that, DLC. As for a third generation, I'm torn. Right now I think a smaller third gen would be cool to do as a sort of epilogue (which ties into a different idea I have of reworking the prologue to have Kurth, Byron, and Ring as they head off to war. We'd explore some of the mechanics of the game in this small section, as well as be introduced to the Loptyr Cult). But a whole third generation requires a LOT of reworking of things, including themes, endings, and purposes of the story, so I'd be careful with it.  

In the epilogue we'd follow a Loptyrian raised to believe they are Julius and Ishar's child (in my head they would actually be their child, but I definitely understand the unfortunate implications of that line of thinking. Leaving it ambiguous may be for the best) trying to usurp Seliph. Characters like Finn and Oifey (if they're alive) serve as sort of Black Knight roles in terms of gameplay - aka "when they show up you RUN." Throughout the course of the epilogue the players find out the truth behind Julius and Ishtar's demise, and why they're being persecuted for the Child Hunts of the previous generation. By the end, Seliph would meet the child and formally adopt them into his family, reuniting all the three bloodlines under one house, and would appoint this character as a Justicar - one who would travel the kingdom with their allies and fight persecution wherever it is found. Because persecution is one of the underlying themes of FE 4 to me - a person who admittedly hasn't played the games, but knows the story, read the Oosawa Manga, and is currently watching an LP (I finally found a good one!). But to nail home this theme, we need to see it throughout the story. Anyways, this epilogue would take up a chapter and a half of time at the most, and it would feature mostly new characters.

But that's just me. How would y'all implement a third generation, if you would at all?

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

@Jotari and @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate sorry I haven't responded. I've been busy with real life stuff...that I'm still busy with... anyways, I'm not sure what the protocol for this is. Do we continue with the discussion, or should we just leave it be and agree to disagree? I'm fine either way, but I'm not sure I'll have time to respond for the next few days here...

 

I've had a few thoughts about this. I know some of Kaga's stuff post Seliph's story (finding Lachesis, reviving Tatiliu) would be cool to add in the story proper as a post-game, or if they can't do that, DLC. As for a third generation, I'm torn. Right now I think a smaller third gen would be cool to do as a sort of epilogue (which ties into a different idea I have of reworking the prologue to have Kurth, Byron, and Ring as they head off to war. We'd explore some of the mechanics of the game in this small section, as well as be introduced to the Loptyr Cult). But a whole third generation requires a LOT of reworking of things, including themes, endings, and purposes of the story, so I'd be careful with it.  

In the epilogue we'd follow a Loptyrian raised to believe they are Julius and Ishar's child (in my head they would actually be their child, but I definitely understand the unfortunate implications of that line of thinking. Leaving it ambiguous may be for the best) trying to usurp Seliph. Characters like Finn and Oifey (if they're alive) serve as sort of Black Knight roles in terms of gameplay - aka "when they show up you RUN." Throughout the course of the epilogue the players find out the truth behind Julius and Ishtar's demise, and why they're being persecuted for the Child Hunts of the previous generation. By the end, Seliph would meet the child and formally adopt them into his family, reuniting all the three bloodlines under one house, and would appoint this character as a Justicar - one who would travel the kingdom with their allies and fight persecution wherever it is found. Because persecution is one of the underlying themes of FE 4 to me - a person who admittedly hasn't played the games, but knows the story, read the Oosawa Manga, and is currently watching an LP (I finally found a good one!). But to nail home this theme, we need to see it throughout the story. Anyways, this epilogue would take up a chapter and a half of time at the most, and it would feature mostly new characters.

But that's just me. How would y'all implement a third generation, if you would at all?

I wouldn't implement a third generation, I'd implement a zeroith generation. A lot more I want to see from Byron's generation than anything after the game.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

@Jotari and @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate sorry I haven't responded. I've been busy with real life stuff...that I'm still busy with... anyways, I'm not sure what the protocol for this is. Do we continue with the discussion, or should we just leave it be and agree to disagree? I'm fine either way, but I'm not sure I'll have time to respond for the next few days here...

I don't know that it's worth retreading the old topic, if none of us having anything new to add.

10 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

But that's just me. How would y'all implement a third generation, if you would at all?

I wouldn't include a third generation, personally. What I think could be cool to get, though, is a set of "trial maps", which we get once we beat the game. Foremost among them would be a "Miracle of Darna" map, where the Crusaders flee to Darna against overwhelming odds, then receive the blessing of Naga and her allies, thus gaining the power to fight back against Loptous. Other maps I could envision are the War with Isaach, where we control Byron, Kurth, Langbart, and Reptor against Marricle. And a "midquel" map, where Shannan, Oifey, and Adean guard Seliph and the other kids from the Empire.

[gabriel_]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:29 AM, Use the Falchion said:

But that's just me. How would y'all implement a third generation, if you would at all?

i feel like having two fully fleshed out generations (with voice acting/supports) is already ambitious enough, a third generation probably wouldn't work without hurting the quality of the game. if there was is a postgame though, it'd be interesting to see a story involving diarmuid and ares reclaiming agustria

as for gameplay, fe4 would be fine with a few tweaks. giving infantry some more movement (but not canto) would probably do a lot for the game's balance, and adding some more side objectives between objectives would probably help break the monotony of some maps. also don't add more characters, the current cast is already solid 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by notgabenotgabe

[GodSejeong97]

I prefer FE4 to be remade faithfully to the source, but of course, I do have my own opinions on what could've been done better if it does get remade:

-Go for the M rating instead of trying to keep it PG-13. This way, no retcon has to be made and it gives better freedom in expressing the darker part of FE4.

-Substitute unit being playable along with child units.

-Arion becoming recruitable, don't care if it's only on Final Holy War, I just want to get a hold of Gungnir.

-Addition of Hard and Lunatic mode for extra challenges.

[Guill0]

16 hours ago, notgabenotgabe said:

it'd be interesting to see a story involving diarmuid and ares reclaiming agustria

The problem here is that Augustria is liberated by the local resistance and then given to Ares by Seliph. So I think that the only possibility of extra maps would be prequels or midquels

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 3/28/2021 at 9:26 PM, GodSejeong97 said:

-Go for the M rating instead of trying to keep it PG-13. This way, no retcon has to be made and it gives better freedom in expressing the darker part of FE4.

I don't think there's any need for this, while retaining fidelity to the original. FE4 didn't depict blood, any graphic sex scenes, or gratuitous swearing (outside of "dastard"). I don't believe that bringing up incest, or the incident at Belhalla, are enough to force a rating above T.

On 3/28/2021 at 9:26 PM, GodSejeong97 said:

Arion becoming recruitable, don't care if it's only on Final Holy War, I just want to get a hold of Gungnir.

-Addition of Hard and Lunatic mode for extra challenges.

These both sound good. I have to imagine he stayed a green unit in the first game due to hardware limitations. Or to the Castle only fitting 24 people. Make Areone playable, and give him a conversation with Leif.

And yeah, would love to see higher difficulties. There are enough enemies already, but they can up the quality of the endless mooks. Maybe add skills on enemies on the higher difficulties, too.

19 hours ago, Guill0 said:

The problem here is that Augustria is liberated by the local resistance and then given to Ares by Seliph. So I think that the only possibility of extra maps would be prequels or midquels

They could just... change this. Make Agustria the last holdout of the Grannvale Empire. So that Ares, Diarmud, Nanna, and their partners team up with local "freedom fighters" to take back the country.

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I don't think there's any need for this, while retaining fidelity to the original. FE4 didn't depict blood, any graphic sex scenes, or gratuitous swearing (outside of "dastard"). I don't believe that bringing up incest, or the incident at Belhalla, are enough to force a rating above T.

You're right in that age ratings care more about the actual visual content rather than the, hmm, what's the term, cerebral content? A character dismembering and murdering sentient robots won't trigger any ratings at all, unless the robots spew out oil that happens to be red. Which sounds backward, but at least it does allow more of an objective standard to ratings rather than the opinions of some single arbiter somewhere. So all that being said, while I agree that a Genealogy remake probably would get a teen rating, I personally would actually like if they marketed it as 18+  That doesn't mean to say that I want a shit tonne of blood in my fire emblem, but when it comes to Jugdral I want it made with absolutely no compunctions when it comes to depicting the world as a crappy place. And while I don't have any data to back it up (I think there were a few polls way back when), I think Fire Emblem's general age base does trend a little older than most other Nintendo series. I'd say early 20s is probably the average for the Fire Emblem fanbase. So intentionally marketing the game by saying "Yes, this is for you college aged adults and above" could actually work as a strategy.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

You're right in that age ratings care more about the actual visual content rather than the, hmm, what's the term, cerebral content? A character dismembering and murdering sentient robots won't trigger any ratings at all, unless the robots spew out oil that happens to be red. Which sounds backward, but at least it does allow more of an objective standard to ratings rather than the opinions of some single arbiter somewhere. So all that being said, while I agree that a Genealogy remake probably would get a teen rating, I personally would actually like if they marketed it as 18+  That doesn't mean to say that I want a shit tonne of blood in my fire emblem, but when it comes to Jugdral I want it made with absolutely no compunctions when it comes to depicting the world as a crappy place. And while I don't have any data to back it up (I think there were a few polls way back when), I think Fire Emblem's general age base does trend a little older than most other Nintendo series. I'd say early 20s is probably the average for the Fire Emblem fanbase. So intentionally marketing the game by saying "Yes, this is for you college aged adults and above" could actually work as a strategy.

I'm not opposed to this, per se, but I don't think IS (or Koei Tecmo, or ILCA, or whoever handles Shadows of the Genealogy of the Echoing Holy War) will necessarily have trouble marketing the game. Awakening, Fates, and Three Houses have all been rabid successes on the sales front. Echoes was comparatively underwhelming, but it came late in the 3DS's lifespan, with little fanfare. If Nintendo gives enough advance notice (say, 6 months or so), and uses the advertising to highlight similarities to recent releases (pairing mechanics, Holy Blood, a "home base"), then I could see the remake bringing in a lot of buyers. I don't mind if they emphasize more mature elements, but as someone who started playing in middle school, I hope they don't alienate the teenage crowd, either.

[Sayyyaka]

Splitting up the maps would be awful...I'd like FE4 to be its own unique experience, not more like the other games.  And what I want most of all is to see those giant maps in 3D.

Personally I just want the game to be as faithful as possible gameplay/mechanics-wise (outside of some minor QoL even Kaga wanted to implement but couldn't such as selecting a specific amount of gold to give to another character) but with far more character development, conversations, and fleshed out cutscenes for important moments.  Also memory prisms.  Lots of memory prisms.

[Dark Holy Elf]

If they're going to bother with an FE4 remake at all I definitely think it would deserve significant updates for the modern audience. If they're barely gonna change it (which is valid), just translate and port the SNES version, like they did with FE1 this past year.

Obviously add Casual mode at minimum.

Maps:

Part of me wants to say "burn down FE4's long maps and split them into individual chapters" but on the whole I agree with those who say that FE4's big maps are part of its identity. Plus the way they fit together like a giant jigsaw of the continent is super-cool.

But if you're going to keep the large maps, there's a bunch of things you need to do, IMO.

1: Add a "auto move towards target", similar to that seen in Civilization, to make moving your army (upwards of 20 units!) towards a destination less of a chore. Once set, the character will automatically move towards the destination at the end of each turn if you don't choose a manual action for them that turn.

2: Make it possible for lower-move units to keep up better. My own solution for this would be a bit novel for Fire Emblem, but exists in some other systems like Dungeons and Dragons: allow a character to move further if they don't act, by "dashing". I'd give 5 bonus squares of movement, which allows even the lowest-move mage or armour to keep up with the highest-move horse if the latter acts while the former does not. Visually you could accomplish this by showing the squares the character could only reach via a "dash" in a different colour.

To prevent massively moving forward your cavalry as enemy phase juggernauts, I'd also make it so characters who dash are unable to counter for that turn as well. Optionally you could even give them a slight stat penalty so they can't tank well, but there's probably no need.

Battle speed:

One of the biggest problems with FE4 is how very, very slowly the game plays. Plenty of ways to fix this, though:

1. Enemy phase skip. Obvious, every recent game has it.
2. An option to turn animations all the way off, similar to Radiant Dawn. No need to waste time with the fire spell animation, just have the fire mage walk up and damage numbers appear.
3. To reduce time watching many enemies move, you could have it so all enemies within a certain group who aren't attacking this turn are animated as moving at the same time.

Interface/inter-chapter stuff:

-Make it so the damage projection is the same as in more modern games: show the actual damage instead of doing subtractions, show the chance of critical (and preferably other skill rates), show the x2 or x4 if relevant.
-Allow a number of functions to be performed "between" chapters, such as shopping/trading and promotions. Not strictly necessary but helps
-Allow characters to promote at any castle.

I'm mixed about what to do about the arena. I kinda dislike it; while it is a bit more engaging than the average FE arena (since you can change your weapon to match your foe), it's a massive time sink for what is fundamentally not fun FE gameplay or writing. Currently though it's an essential way of making money. At minimum, speed up the arena gameplay a LOT (nothing's worse than watching Light vs Bolganone over and over and hoping that Baron doesn't activate Pavise). And I'm kinda tempted to delete it entirely and replace the income with something else (as well as compensate for the exp by tinkering with the formula a bit). You could have enemies who drop bullions to make money more available, and have the pure healers receive some money through special conversations.

Trading:

Like the maps, I can accept everyone having their own inventory/money as FE4's "thing". As mentioned, there's a flavour reason for doing so: each person in your army is an individual with their own agenda, why should they just hand their things over to others? And that's fair, but... if the reason to do this is for flavour, then why on earth is there this nonsense pawnbroker system? Noish won't sell his steel sword to Alec for 3000 gold, but he will sell it to the pawnbroker for 1500?

So at the very least I'd like to see "Trade" become an actual action, even if it's a financial transaction one. So Alec can buy Noish's Steel Sword if he has enough gold (transferring that gold directly to Alec). To discourage things like playing hot potato with the Paragon Band mid-phase I'd make Trade take a turn (except between chapters), unlike in most Fire Emblems.

I'd also make it so characters can optionally buy an item at a discount if the person holding it can't use it (Lex would probably part with a staff more readily than an axe, even if the two are of the same value), or if they've reached a certain level of support. Naturally, lovers would still be able to hand over gold to each other, as well as trade freely.

Writing stuff:

-Add support conversations. C-B for platonic, C-B-A for romantic (each character can only get one A support at once). Really needed to flesh out some characters who get very little as is. Converstions can be triggered either on the map or in the base.

-Add LGBT options so the game doesn't feel so incredibly heterocentric. While it's a bit more difficult for the gen 1 women (though there would be ways to make it work if you wanted), there's no reason not to among gen 1 men (since there are so many more men than women) or gen 2 either gender.

-For crying out loud let someone besides Seliph and Lewyn talk during gen 2. That got stale so fast. Add Oifey, Shannan, Julia, preferably at least one other woman (Aideen?) to be more involved the war leadership. Leif and Altena once they join too, of course.

-As much as possible without completing revamping the plot, give women more of a role in the game. At minimum, well, it's already been well said:

On 3/20/2021 at 12:43 PM, Jugdral >>> said:

Give Julia her own character arc. Don't Celica her, please. It's 2021-2022, not 1996 where female characters have to be reduced to uninterested side pieces to the male protagonist, or have a role of a walking plot device, that doesn't really do anything impactful. I know Kaga would disagree heavily with me, and probably suggest the opposite and that Julia be a maid in the remake, buuuuuut I think it'd be nice if her past with Julius and her relationship with her mother and father was elaborated on, as well as the "accident", and her growing her resolve to put an end to her brother's madness as the story progresses.

Also: not having Deirdre, the only particularly significant woman of gen 1, die offscreen (after having lost all her agency back in chapter 3), would be a good change.

[DarkSage861]

Honestly, just no incest and big ass maps and we're good

[Venger_06]

2 hours ago, DarkSage861 said:

Honestly, just no incest and big ass maps and we're good

B-but incest is vital to understand Jugdral!

[Original Alear]

Two chapters:
-Sigurd's Arc: chapter 1
-Celice's Arc: chapter 2

Maps even bigger than before. Changing map music of course.