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If you had the chance to remake FE4 what would you add or want to see?


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8 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

Two chapters:
-Sigurd's Arc: chapter 1
-Celice's Arc: chapter 2

Maps even bigger than before. Changing map music of course.

I'm sure you're probably joking, but that could actually really help showing whats going on in other parts of the continent at the same time. Genealogy has a bit of an issue with the fact that it only ever shows what's happening on the current map even though there's a tonne of important stuff going down in Belhalla and elsewhere at the same time. It'd be pretty cool if while you're playing in Silese, over on the other side of the ridiculously giant ass map we get to see Alvis finding Deirdre in gameplay.

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8 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

Two chapters:
-Sigurd's Arc: chapter 1
-Celice's Arc: chapter 2

I never knew I wanted a fire emblem "open-world": basically fire emblem X risk where the npc turns shows us wars on the other side of the continent... weirdly it totally has that FE4 vibe.

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Welp, i decided to replay FE4 a few days ago, and while i played it i decided to list down stuff i'd change in a remake, and having now finished it i decided to list them down.

Gameplay-Wise:

  • Obviously, QOL additions and options for fans who want a smoother and/or easier experience, such as Enemy Phase skip, a no animations settings without both battle and map animations, Casual Mode, and all that jazz;
  • No "Clever Mode" nonsense, just have consistent AI that makes sense be the default, specially for long-rage Tome users and Ballista archers;
  • Still don't want Trade function, but i would like to see a "Give Item" option for Thieves and Lovers, Thieves can do it with anyone, while Lovers can obviously only do it with each other;
  • Similarly, allow players to select how much Gold is given when the Give Money option is used;
  • Map design should stay the same, but to make things more engaging, make the enemy placement be loads of tiny, 4-6man platoons rather that are all more spread around rather than so distant from each other so the player doesn't spend too much time moving between enemy groups, for example, in a space where there was say, a platoon of four Armor Knights, one General (Authority) and five Cavaliers, split the Cavaliers and Armor enemies into two different 5man groups and make one of them be closer to the player than they were in the original;
  • Alter the Arena a bit, allow animations to be skipped while using it, and allow for some kind of enemy tree inside it, with multiple enemy options in the same tier (Let's make it 2 or 3, that seems like the sweet spot), mostly for the really weak units to have an easier time finding a favorable matchup, obviously make an exception for the final tier in Chapter 2 to recruit Chulainn;
  • Allow certain units to promote earlier, mostly footlocked units, it would make them nicer to use and it wouldn't break the game or anything, im leaning towards a Level 15 benchmark as that would be just soon enough that it makes a difference but not so soon that it takes away from training an unit to reach that point to begin with, i also feel an exception should be made for the Prince/Princess classes as training those up for a big while is a big part of them, so their promotion benchmark should remain Level 20;
  • Earlier access to the Wind tome in Gen 1, mostly to help Azelle out;
  • Easier access to the Rescue staff in Gen 2, restricting it to Chapter 5 and making you need to get Edain and Claud together for it is really bad, just make it a Staff you get at say, Chapter 3 as a drop from a boss and make the couple-exclusive Staff something else, maybe the Berserk Staff as it's exclusive to Charlot otherwise;
  • Hidden Events that give items or power boosts are bad design, straight-up, specially for stuff like the Brave Axe of all things, just straight-up make them not hidden in some way, there are different ways you can do it for each one but just make it clear they're there for the player;
  • A more concrete way of viewing and managing Love Points;
  • Arion should become a blue unit when talked to with Altena on Endgame;

Story-wise:

  • I'd like new modern story material elements like Base Conversations, Memory Prisms, and Supports but in the case of Supports in specific i don't feel they should be a replacement for Lover Conversations, make them separate if Support Conversations are implemented;
  • Additional cutscenes, obviously, FE4 like all pre-FE7 games insisted on never showing any story events that took place outside of the physical space a chapter took place in, so this naturally leads to some stuff only occurring off-screen, ditch that and add new cutscenes that show stuff we really should have been able to see;
  • And of course, Lover Conversations for more possible couples;
  • Flesh out and give more characterization to some of the blander characters, specially in Gen 2 where a lot of the characters are carbon copies of their parents barring a few, though some characters in Gen 1 like Midir and Chulainn could use it too;
  • Give Shannan and Oifey more screentime in the Gen 2's main story, they're meant to be the ones who started the rebellion and raised the Tirnanog kids but they lose importance quickly;
  • Let Brigid be more than literally just "The consolation prize for whichever of the archer boys didn't get Edain", since that's how she feels like in the game as is;
  • Speaking of Brigid, this would just be fluffy fanservice for FE5 fans, but i'd like an additional conversation on the end of the game (Around Chapters 10 or the Endgame), be it a Base Conversation or a map conversation, between Finn, Patty and Favail, where he informs them that their mother is still alive;
  • Be it in an additional cutscene or a Base Conversation, i would like to see a conversation between all four of Finn, Shanna, Oifey and Lewyn, as they are the four characters in the game present in the story of both generations;
  • Be it on additional cutscenes or a Memory Prism, show us more of the Frieges, they are supposed to be more sympathetic than other foes you face outside of Hilda, but it's all conveyed through telling rather than showing, show us how they are actually supposed to be more redeemable rather than just saying they are;
  • Similarly to the above, show us stuff that is just told in the original such as Julius before he got the Book of Loptous (As well as his family life with Arvis, Julia and Deirdre and his relationship with Ishtar), Altenna being raised in Thracia and seeing all of the hardships its people face, Azelle's relationship with Arvis, and stuff about the conflict in Isaach in Gen 1, like, Prince Kurth is meant to be such an important figure on the game's story but the game never has him appear on-screen ever;
  • Expand more on Arion's fate after the game, like, he apparently fucks off and doesn't even help his sister rebuild the country he grew up as the prince of and loved so much and is apparently super-depressed at the ending? I don't get it, feels like i missed something there;
  • Don't let Shannan and Oifey be able to become Lovers with Patty and Larcei, i can hesitantly stomach all of the cousin couples that Gen 2 allows as well as all the other age gap couples that Shannan and Oifey can end up, hesitantly, but in the case of these two, Shannan and Oifey pretty much raised them, they are their children, them getting together with either of those two is where it just crosses the line into too much for me;
Edited by Murozaki
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9 hours ago, Murozaki said:
  • Expand more on Arion's fate after the game, like, he apparently fucks off and doesn't even help his sister rebuild the country he grew up as the prince of and loved so much and is apparently super-depressed at the ending? I don't get it, feels like i missed something there;

Yeah that's pretty much Arion's entire character in a nutshell.

 

Here's another one, take a page out Thracia's book and give faces to the 12 dead lords. Either Gen 1 untis killed in the battle of Belhalla, or, something I think I kind of prefer, Thracia units who don't appear in the game. Which would simultaneously allow us to acknowledge Thracia's canon without requiring us to actually have to deal with shoving them into the plot and crowding up the cast. Dagdar, Lifis, Sara, Evyel, Galzus and Raydrik are all there already. So to finish out the set I'd nominate

Lepus, High Priest = Linoan

Anguilla, Mage Fighter = Olwen (she can be dismounted to maintain the gameplay)

Equus, Bishop = Cyas

Ovis, Sage = Asvel

Simia, Swordmaster = Mareeta

Gallus, Dark Bishop = Salem (or maybe Veld to have another villain).

Equus the Bishop and Anguilla the mage fighter already have Fala and Tordo blood, so Cyas and Olwen slot into those places pretty well (granted Cyas should have mahor blood). Ovis the Sage also has Forseti blood which I don't think there's any suggestion Asvel has, but he's from Silesse so it's not far fetched to imagine he does. That one random boss in chapter 9 does already. And Simia (and Bovis) can be given Odo blood because Mareeta (and Galzus) and Linoan can be given minor Naga blood. And while it's not a concern as Evyel already gender bent Draco, these six choices maintain the original gender of these Deadlords in Genealogy.

Edited by Jotari
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On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

: Add a "auto move towards target", similar to that seen in Civilization, to make moving your army (upwards of 20 units!) towards a destination less of a chore. Once set, the character will automatically move towards the destination at the end of each turn if you don't choose a manual action for them that turn

They had this feature as early as Tellius, where Ike could direct the unmoved units to behave by AI. Commands I could see being involved include "Halt", "Advance" (to the next castle), "Assault" (go for any attack possible), "Retreat" (to the Home castle), and "Survive" (heal, go for safe kills, otherwise avoid enemy range). Either have it a command on Sigurd, or just by selecting an empty tile.

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

2: Make it possible for lower-move units to keep up better. My own solution for this would be a bit novel for Fire Emblem, but exists in some other systems like Dungeons and Dragons: allow a character to move further if they don't act, by "dashing". I'd give 5 bonus squares of movement, which allows even the lowest-move mage or armour to keep up with the highest-move horse if the latter acts while the former does not. Visually you could accomplish this by showing the squares the character could only reach via a "dash" in a different colour.

Maybe different units could get different mobility skills? Like, Ayra could get a "Dash" like you described, Arden could get a "Catapult" (where he teleports himself between Castles), and Quan could get a "Carry" (where he drags along an adjacent ally as he Cantos).

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm mixed about what to do about the arena. I kinda dislike it; while it is a bit more engaging than the average FE arena (since you can change your weapon to match your foe), it's a massive time sink for what is fundamentally not fun FE gameplay or writing. Currently though it's an essential way of making money. At minimum, speed up the arena gameplay a LOT (nothing's worse than watching Light vs Bolganone over and over and hoping that Baron doesn't activate Pavise). And I'm kinda tempted to delete it entirely and replace the income with something else (as well as compensate for the exp by tinkering with the formula a bit). You could have enemies who drop bullions to make money more available, and have the pure healers receive some money through special conversations.

My "lazy solution" would be to just include a speed-up (or even skip-phase) option to the Arena, and to cut the number of battles from 7 down to 5. Also, I'd make the Arena a "between chapters" activity. Spending an hour in there grinding, while the enemy army stands outside doing nothing, really strains my belief.

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Like the maps, I can accept everyone having their own inventory/money as FE4's "thing". As mentioned, there's a flavour reason for doing so: each person in your army is an individual with their own agenda, why should they just hand their things over to others? And that's fair, but... if the reason to do this is for flavour, then why on earth is there this nonsense pawnbroker system? Noish won't sell his steel sword to Alec for 3000 gold, but he will sell it to the pawnbroker for 1500?

So at the very least I'd like to see "Trade" become an actual action, even if it's a financial transaction one. So Alec can buy Noish's Steel Sword if he has enough gold (transferring that gold directly to Alec). To discourage things like playing hot potato with the Paragon Band mid-phase I'd make Trade take a turn (except between chapters), unlike in most Fire Emblems.

I'd also make it so characters can optionally buy an item at a discount if the person holding it can't use it (Lex would probably part with a staff more readily than an axe, even if the two are of the same value), or if they've reached a certain level of support. Naturally, lovers would still be able to hand over gold to each other, as well as trade freely.

I could see a "Marketplace" system working - although, I'd hold it between chapters. I like the support ranks having an effect. Say, you need a C support to do a direct sale (Alec gives Noish 3000, gets his Steel Sword), a B support for a discounted sale (Alec gives Noish 1500, gets his Steel Sword), and an A support for free transfer (say, Alec receives Noish's Steel Sword for free).

Speaking of

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Add LGBT options so the game doesn't feel so incredibly heterocentric. While it's a bit more difficult for the gen 1 women (though there would be ways to make it work if you wanted), there's no reason not to among gen 1 men (since there are so many more men than women) or gen 2 either gender.

I'm with all that. Let me pair Oifey and Shannan, dammit! They're Seliph's daddies, after all.

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Add support conversations. C-B for platonic, C-B-A for romantic (each character can only get one A support at once). Really needed to flesh out some characters who get very little as is. Converstions can be triggered either on the map or in the base.

I outlined something like this a few posts upthread. I think this could work. Some existing conversations could be worked into supports, too - like, Quan giving Finn the Brave Lance, as a B support.

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

For crying out loud let someone besides Seliph and Lewyn talk during gen 2. That got stale so fast. Add Oifey, Shannan, Julia, preferably at least one other woman (Aideen?) to be more involved the war leadership. Leif and Altena once they join too, of course.

-As much as possible without completing revamping the plot, give women more of a role in the game. At minimum, well, it's already been well said:

I can't fucking stand Gen II Lewyn, he's just an exposition bot. Even if they're limiting "exposition" characters to those who must survive (and thereby, can't see the field of battle), they could at least give Aideen such a role. Apparently, she's alive and with them at Tirnanog, but then she never appears or is mentioned the rest of the Gen. Which... why? Would love to give her a chance to meet Patty and Faval, for instance. And to see her anxiety before they face Scopio.

On 4/1/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Also: not having Deirdre, the only particularly significant woman of gen 1, die offscreen (after having lost all her agency back in chapter 3), would be a good change.

MEMORY PRISM GANG

MEMORY PRISM GANG

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4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

They had this feature as early as Tellius, where Ike could direct the unmoved units to behave by AI. Commands I could see being involved include "Halt", "Advance" (to the next castle), "Assault" (go for any attack possible), "Retreat" (to the Home castle), and "Survive" (heal, go for safe kills, otherwise avoid enemy range). Either have it a command on Sigurd, or just by selecting an empty tile.

I totally forgot about Tellius's version! Good catch. Unlike Tellius I was thinking that you could also have individual orders for invidual PCs, but I suppose that's not actually that necessary; it's not that common that you need to move two different, large groups in two different directions.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I outlined something like this a few posts upthread. I think this could work. Some existing conversations could be worked into supports, too - like, Quan giving Finn the Brave Lance, as a B support.

Yeah definitely. In fact Quan and Finn pretty much already have a C-B as is (though you could flesh it out a little). I'd be quite happy with keeping the FE4 thing where many support conversations would in fact give some sort of bonus.

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This may be odd, but I would personally rather not see supports in a Genealogy remake. This is not to say that I want less characterization, I simply feel like supports in general aren't great ways to build characters. Mechanic-wise, it's possible that it'd work better for lovers, but I'd still much rather see supports be supplementary at most in terms of interactions.

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8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

Maybe different units could get different mobility skills? Like, Ayra could get a "Dash" like you described, Arden could get a "Catapult" (where he teleports himself between Castles), and Quan could get a "Carry" (where he drags along an adjacent ally as he Cantos).

 

Hands up who thinks all infantry should get Thracia movement stars?

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:17 PM, Seazas said:

without forcing an avatar in.

Thesis

On 4/5/2021 at 2:14 PM, JAZ_2002 said:

An Avatar lmao

Antithesis.

On 4/5/2021 at 8:46 PM, Maof06 said:

An avatar for eugenics.

Synthesis.

On 4/1/2021 at 8:11 PM, Maof06 said:

B-but incest is vital to understand Jugdral!

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but the evil cult using incest to revive their dark master is an actual cornerstone of Genealogy's plot.

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8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but the evil cult using incest to revive their dark master is an actual cornerstone of Genealogy's plot.

Both. I was serious but put in a comical way.

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I'm currently working on my version of FE4 with these changes:

1. Enemies drop half gold when defeated without steal skill.

2. "Sigurd" and "Ethlyn" are now twin brothers and they have minor light blood and they're paternal half-brother of "Diadora". The two of them, along with a tactician with minor darkness blood have a fixed child and forced marriage (Awakening style without maiden), meaning that they always have 3 children, 2 from their wives.

3. There are 16 different blood types: 3 swords, 2 lances, 2 axes, 2 bows, 1 staff, 1 fire, 1 ice, 1 thunder, 1 wind, 1 light, 1 darkness. Some of the blood's bonuses are different than FE4 to make more sense. There are 15 crusaders in this version.

4. There are way more magic users, including glass cannon wizard/witch.

5. "Jamke" and his family has minor bow blood, different than "Brigit" and "Edain"'s. They're distant relatives since the said crusaders are siblings.

6. Silesse was founded by wind and lance crusader.

7. Most classes are unisex, including White Knight (Troubadour), Sky Knight, Fighter, Mercenary, Alchemist, Spy, Outlaw, and Magic Knight.

8. Darkness blood-bearers are allowed to have multiple children, but they're quite infertile in general, but still not allowed to marry fellow darkness blood-bearers.

9. Each generation has 35 playable characters.

10. "Azelle" and "Lewyn" aren't the only playable blood bearer of their own element. "Azelle" has a twin brother while "Lewyn" has cousin.

11. "Claude"'s sister is alive in mine, but lost during childhood. She appears to marry the tactician's brother under the dark lord's control.

12. Dragon knight's main weapon is axe and they can use lance after promotion.

13. Sky knight, mercenary, and fighter have different weapon types depending on their gender, also applies to their promotions. This is especially true for sky knights since male promotes to dark fliers while females promote to falcon knights.

14. The magicians have nice magic and usually nice resistance growth, making "Ethlyn", "Azelle", "Lewns", "Tailtyu", "Edain", and "Claude" much better. Priests are now tanky and can equip light instead of anima upon promotion.

15. There is a warrior queendom, consisting of mostly amazons at its capital.

16. "Lex" is now dragon knight while "Shannan" is wanderer.

17. The only substitute children with crusader's blood are the amazon's children's because their cousins take their places just in case. Both have minor axe.

18. Staff range is now 1-2 in general. Long-ranged heal is available. Some of them have their rank altered.

19. Master knights can only equip sword, lance, axe, bow, and staff. It's female-only now.

20. Renewal is now unique to light crusader's descendants.

and many more! It's too much to post here all at once 😄

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On 4/6/2021 at 2:57 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I totally forgot about Tellius's version! Good catch. Unlike Tellius I was thinking that you could also have individual orders for invidual PCs, but I suppose that's not actually that necessary; it's not that common that you need to move two different, large groups in two different directions.

Actually it was first introduced in Gaiden, but there were only 2 commands you could give. I disagree that there you will direct most of your units in the same direction, you may want to split the footlocked ones to send them further ahead in maps like Chapter 2 and Chapter 7.

On 4/6/2021 at 6:27 PM, Jotari said:

Hands up who thinks all infantry should get Thracia movement stars?

I actually think this is a good idea. Also move growth, also infantry exclusive. I guess it would kind of suck on enemies though.

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30 minutes ago, Stones said:

Actually it was first introduced in Gaiden, but there were only 2 commands you could give. I disagree that there you will direct most of your units in the same direction, you may want to split the footlocked ones to send them further ahead in maps like Chapter 2 and Chapter 7.

The beauty of the Tellius system though is that you can move all the units you want to move in a given direction, then end your turn and the other units will auto move to the specified point. So essentially if you wanted to move two squads of units you can do so by just moving one squad manually. A more sophisticated squad system where you assign units to a squad could be used, but honestly I think Genealogy's playable cast (at any given time) is so small that it would hardly be worth it.

32 minutes ago, Stones said:

I actually think this is a good idea. Also move growth, also infantry exclusive. I guess it would kind of suck on enemies though.

You're right, it would suck on enemies. I doubt anyone would complain if random enemy infantry lacked movement starts. Unfair? Yeah, sure, but so is the enemy out numbering us 10 to 1.

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On 4/6/2021 at 2:30 AM, Benice said:

This may be odd, but I would personally rather not see supports in a Genealogy remake. This is not to say that I want less characterization, I simply feel like supports in general aren't great ways to build characters. Mechanic-wise, it's possible that it'd work better for lovers, but I'd still much rather see supports be supplementary at most in terms of interactions.

I second this. Honestly, i don't see the point. Whats the difference between having the current way and supports? Especially if the conversation is the exact same.

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19 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I second this. Honestly, i don't see the point. Whats the difference between having the current way and supports? Especially if the conversation is the exact same.

Because of the maximum 5 supports, and the time/chapter the support is available.

Let's say Quan has 5 supports, and you have to choose between Sigurd/Ethlin/Fin, and stats up or Brave Lance or siblings/lovers crits ... etc.

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3 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Because of the maximum 5 supports, and the time/chapter the support is available.

Let's say Quan has 5 supports, and you have to choose between Sigurd/Ethlin/Fin, and stats up or Brave Lance or siblings/lovers crits ... etc.

But how would that benefit the player compared to it's current system? To me it just sounds like you are putting stipulations on the players choices.

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6 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Because of the maximum 5 supports, and the time/chapter the support is available.

Let's say Quan has 5 supports, and you have to choose between Sigurd/Ethlin/Fin, and stats up or Brave Lance or siblings/lovers crits ... etc.

Has anyone proposed limiting a unit to 5 support ranks, though? The only restriction I've seen upthread is that a character would be held to one A-support per playthrough. There would probably be some chapter-locks, too, something that Echoes already did.

Spoiler

Hands up who thinks all infantry should get Thracia movement stars?

@Jotari Honestly, I wouldn't complain if Leif got a personal skill that was the movement star. Say, a Luck% chance (because Luck does nothing else in this game) of getting to move again. Could be a neat callback to the Thracia mechanic, without giving it wide implementation. 

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
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Luck adds to evasion, for what it's worth.

Regarding supports: "proper" Fire Emblem supports aren't too different from what exists now sin some cases, but there would be considerably more of them - in actual FE4 it's possible for many characters to fall in love and have zero dialog about it, which feels very lazy. It's understandable considering the limitations of an ambitious SNES game, but in 2021 we can and should expect better. Also, a more robust support system would allow the player to have these conversations in the base, instead of permanently missing them because you sent the two characters to opposite sides of the battlefield during the part of the chapter in which it became available.

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On 4/10/2021 at 2:25 AM, Tetragrammaton said:

Because of the maximum 5 supports, and the time/chapter the support is available.

Let's say Quan has 5 supports, and you have to choose between Sigurd/Ethlin/Fin, and stats up or Brave Lance or siblings/lovers crits ... etc.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Getting rid of the support limit is a change modern games have made for the better. It may have been fine in the GBA era, but going back to that feels like a massive step back (and makes playthroughs annoying for people who like to grind supports or only have a limited amount of time to play). 

 

On 4/10/2021 at 8:44 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The only restriction I've seen upthread is that a character would be held to one A-support per playthrough.

That seems like a weird restriction nowadays to me. Modern FE games don't always have the A-support ultimately lead to romance or a paired ending. It could just as easily be finishing up a mini story-arc, and unless the game is going to have C+ and/or B+ supports (which they should have anyways) it'll be weird to me to leave that arc unfinished. I may ship Annette and Felix, but I still want Annette to get that A Support with Mercedes. Maybe it's also just me and my love of character moments, but I usually don't feel like two previous conversations is enough to "lock in" a romance during the third. But that might just be me. And given how FE 4 works, that may just be a compromise that needs to be made.

 

On 4/6/2021 at 1:30 AM, Benice said:

This may be odd, but I would personally rather not see supports in a Genealogy remake. This is not to say that I want less characterization, I simply feel like supports in general aren't great ways to build characters. Mechanic-wise, it's possible that it'd work better for lovers, but I'd still much rather see supports be supplementary at most in terms of interactions.

I think I see your point, and I agree that supports should be supplementary to the lovers mechanic at best, but I disagree with the rest. Supports done well add an entirely new aspect to a character. If Chrom didn't have supports with Vaike, we wouldn't know that the latter was an actually decent cook while the former's food is so bad it knocks people out. If Tharja didn't support...I forget who, we wouldn't know that she actually has family that she writes letters to. If Henry didn't support Olivia or Panne, we probably wouldn't know as much about his background as we do. Would we know Marissa is ambidextrous when it comes to sword-fighting if we didn't have her support with Tethys? Or the story of Nada Kuya if Eirika and Saleh didn't support? Would Annette be such a fan-favorite we didn't hear her singing? Supports and all conversations turn the characters into characters. The supports are why many people have so many different favorite characters, or else everyone would like the same, strong, multi-use characters. Worldbuilding, exploring character motivations, looking into these people's personal lives and past, seeing fun dynamics, and sometimes even cute or heartbreaking moments. These are things that a game with the scope and cast of Genealogy could easily look over. Supports help fill that need.

Besides, not all of the conversations have to bring up the same thing (looking at you, Fates). 

Then again, I'm the type of player who plays for the supports, characters, and story experience first, and gameplay second (or even third, depending on where you factor in the saving/collecting everyone sort of mentality and head-canons). Taking out the supports would be taking out one of my primary reasons to play. 

 

But I'm curious, what do you think would be better ways to build characters? (I'm genuinely curious. Maybe it could be used to make a fun, new mechanic!)

 

 

In terms of its relationship to the lover's mechanic, I no longer think that boosting the lover's mechanic should be the support convo's primary function. I think it should go something along the lines of Primary Function, Incentive, and Additional Effects. So for supports it'd be:

Primary Function - to provide extra characterization for units as well as interactions. These are great spotlight moments for characters who don't always get them in-game outside of their recruitment dialogue or whatnot.

Incentive: Bonuses when adjacent (or paired-up, or whatever this game's equivalent will be) that increase the higher the support level is.

Additional Effects: Helps increase the rate of the Lovers Bonus. It can also help show off the relationship dynamics instead of leaving it blank. (Is Ayra something of a Tsundere with that sparking sexual tension around Lex, like in the Oosawa Manga or what Han and Leia have in Star Wars? Or is it something different, and more battle-focused like Dimitri and Catherine?) 

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1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

That seems like a weird restriction nowadays to me. Modern FE games don't always have the A-support ultimately lead to romance or a paired ending. It could just as easily be finishing up a mini story-arc, and unless the game is going to have C+ and/or B+ supports (which they should have anyways) it'll be weird to me to leave that arc unfinished. I may ship Annette and Felix, but I still want Annette to get that A Support with Mercedes. Maybe it's also just me and my love of character moments, but I usually don't feel like two previous conversations is enough to "lock in" a romance during the third. But that might just be me. And given how FE 4 works, that may just be a compromise that needs to be made.

Well, even further upstream, the argument was posed that "supporting everyone with everyone else will require too many conversations, so they should limit potential pairings". To which I responded "if they just change platonic lines to C/B and romantic to C/B/A, then there'll actually be fewer supports than Awakening already did". So it's an argument of practicality. I get the whole "three conversations to fall in love" is a little silly, but it's interspersed by the characters fighting/healing/dancing side-by-side. They could potentially receive more characterization through base conversations, events, crit quotes, and the like. And with how short each generation is, I see fitting in full C/B/A/S chains as a tough sell - especially if we're keeping a reasonable limit of one conversation, per pair, per chapter.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Would we know Marissa is ambidextrous when it comes to sword-fighting if we didn't have her support with Tethys?

Bold of you to assume anyone's using Marisa, haha.

...Okay, they definitely are, not that she deserves it.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Incentive: Bonuses when adjacent (or paired-up, or whatever this game's equivalent will be) that increase the higher the support level is.

Crazy idea for a support effect: skill borrowing. Like, if Noish and Alec have a C-support, and Noish is adjacent to Alec, then he temporarily gets the effects of Pursuit and Nihil. This range can boost to 2 for B-support, and 3 for A-support. Kind of like the "lover crits" of yore, but now with an effect that varies from partner to partner.

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