I somehow thought Metodey and Randolph were the same character for way too long

[Jotari]

So to recap, Metodey is the boss alongside Edelgard in the tome chapter near the end of Part 1 (he also appears in Ashen Wolves too) who acts really psychotically. Randolph is one of Edelgard's generals who...well I don't really knw what to say about him. He's a pretty generic nicer guy who isn't playable and is just sort of there. He's the boss of the second chapter of the non Crimson Flower Part 2 routes. The one where they're trying to take back the monastery. All in all they're pretty different characters despite both working for Edelgard. And for an embarrassingly long time I thought it was the same guy. I'm not sure why, they don't have the same classes and they don't even look the same.

At least they don't look any more similar than Three Houses tendency to give everyone the same face shape. I don't think it was until my fourth playthrough of the game did I realize these are two different characters (and even then I only think it's because Azure Moon put some extra focus on Randolph). And to be honest I'm a bit disappointed they are. Because when I played Crimson Flower I thought they were doing a pretty fun thing with characterization. By having this guy who works for Edelgard who acts like a complete psycho when he's your enemy, but as your ally he's respectful and mannerly, because he's not currently trying to murder you (Crimson Flower was my third route, so I'd somehow just managed to forgot Randolph as a boss character where he retains his personality in the first two routes I played). That would make sense and it'd kind of show how the nature of people and the masks they show you are different depending on the context and situation.

So...yeah. I think the mistake I somehow managed to make despite the game's effort to depict these two characters as distinct from each other would have actually been a pretty cool thing to do. I guess this is kind of what they were doing with Jeritza. Only he's kind of certifiably insane and it's like a dual personality too or something. Which just sort of muddles the kind of straight forward thing I thought was happening.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Maybe it's the red eyes that do it? Anyway, Randolph is supposed to be a somewhat sympathetic dude, fighting based on loyalty to the Empire and a desire to prove himself. The intent of his dialogue with Dimitri (AM Chapter 14) is up for debate - are we supposed to interpret him as "better", or likewise "a beast"? For my part, I think Dimitri has the better of that dialogue - whatever respectable face he wishes to put on it, Randolph is waging war. As one of the targets of that war, Dimitri is justified in resisting - including by guerilla attacks.

Metodey, though? He's just a dick. He also appears as an enemy in chapter 5 of Cindered Shadows, suggesting he's something more than just Edelgard's lackey, at least.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Maybe it's the red eyes that do it? Anyway, Randolph is supposed to be a somewhat sympathetic dude, fighting based on loyalty to the Empire and a desire to prove himself. The intent of his dialogue with Dimitri (AM Chapter 14) is up for debate - are we supposed to interpret him as "better", or likewise "a beast"? For my part, I think Dimitri has the better of that dialogue - whatever respectable face he wishes to put on it, Randolph is waging war. As one of the targets of that war, Dimitri is justified in resisting - including by guerilla attacks.

Metodey, though? He's just a dick. He also appears as an enemy in chapter 5 of Cindered Shadows, suggesting he's something more than just Edelgard's lackey, at least.

I took his cindered shadows appearance to suggest Edelgard is pulling strings behind the scenes to try and get ahold of the Chalice of Beginnings, or whatever maguffin they're after at that point (hey maybe that's why she has Distant Counter only as an enemy, the main game is in a timeline where Metody won).

Edited December 4, 2020 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

I took his cindered shadows appearance to suggest Edelgard is pulling strings behind the scenes to try and get ahold of the Chalice of Beginnings, or whatever maguffin they're after at that point (hey maybe that's why she has Distant Counter only as an enemy, the main game is in a timeline where Metody won).

Doubtful, given that even she wasn't pleased with his presence.

Plus, their knowledge about the Chalice of Beginnings is that it's a forbidden artifact that failed to even fulfill its task of reviving the dead. Edelgard wouldn't bother with such an artifact.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Doubtful, given that even she wasn't pleased with his presence.

Plus, their knowledge about the Chalice of Beginnings is that it's a forbidden artifact that failed to even fulfill its task of reviving the dead. Edelgard wouldn't bother with such an artifact.

Well just because she expresses displeasure doesn't mean she's actually not pleased. She is basically undercover after all. And someone is obviously employing Metody to get the chalice. That it be the one character we see him working with doesn't seem like the largest leap in logic. Like how else would he have even found out about it? The only other suspect would be Aelfric, but why would he have any connection with Metody.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well just because she expresses displeasure doesn't mean she's actually not pleased. She is basically undercover after all. And someone is obviously employing Metody to get the chalice. That it be the one character we see him working with doesn't seem like the largest leap in logic. Like how else would he have even found out about it? The only other suspect would be Aelfric, but why would he have any connection with Metody.

That's not how Edelgard goes. That's like saying that her displeasure at seeing the Death Knight at Remire is just fake as well, when she's glad. 

Like, no. 

When Edelgard expresses disgust and anger at something, she means it. Something that actually is part of her plan generally has her being more cryptic about it. Like when talking about the Flame Emperor, Edelgard talks in a more cryptic tone. 

Metodey's dialogue clearly implies that he was hired there, so yeah, the perp would have to be Aelfric. 

[Jotari]

32 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's not how Edelgard goes. That's like saying that her displeasure at seeing the Death Knight at Remire is just fake as well, when she's glad. 

Like, no. 

When Edelgard expresses disgust and anger at something, she means it. Something that actually is part of her plan generally has her being more cryptic about it. Like when talking about the Flame Emperor, Edelgard talks in a more cryptic tone. 

Metodey's dialogue clearly implies that he was hired there, so yeah, the perp would have to be Aelfric. 

Well for your interpretation. I'm willing to give Edelgard more credit and suggest she has some acting talent.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Jotari said:

Well for your interpretation. I'm willing to give Edelgard more credit and suggest she has some acting talent.

Regardless of stance, Metodey states this:

Quote

Metodey: I don't mind pain, but it's time to make my exit. My employer pays me more than this treasure is worth.

He was clearly hired here and paid a lot for it. 

And given by what we know about Cindered Shadows, it's clear that these attacks were all orchestrated by Alfreic. 

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Regardless of stance, Metodey states this:

He was clearly hired here and paid a lot for it. 

And given by what we know about Cindered Shadows, it's clear that these attacks were all orchestrated by Alfreic. 

You don't think Edelgard pays her employees?

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

You don't think Edelgard pays her employees?

Very funny, not my point.

 

[Jotari]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Very funny, not my point.

 

Well you can take whatever you want from it, but I took from Metody's appearance that the empire (and thus Edelgard) were involved somehow. They even give Metody a line referencing his connection to the empire to drive home that fact. If they clearly wanted it to be Aelfric then why choose Metody? How does Aelfric have any connection to this random Empire general? Pallardo would have been a far better choice for an accomplice for Aelfric considering he's an actual thief who actually hangs out near the monastery.

[Anathaco]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well you can take whatever you want from it, but I took from Metody's appearance that the empire (and thus Edelgard) were involved somehow. They even give Metody a line referencing his connection to the empire to drive home that fact. If they clearly wanted it to be Aelfric then why choose Metody? How does Aelfric have any connection to this random Empire general? Pallardo would have been a far better choice for an accomplice for Aelfric considering he's an actual thief who actually hangs out near the monastery.

Technically Pallardo is still a merchant at this point, he's just a massive douche as well. It's seemingly not until post timeskip that he turns to outright thievery.

The quote omegaxis gave, to me, indicates that he backs out because he values the money he gets from Edelgard over whatever money he would have been given for this job- if the employer he referred to was the one who hired him to get the chalice, he won't be getting payed for screwing up and failing to retrieve it. So his concerns about getting paid probably stem from his actual job in the imperial army or whatever he is, rather than this sidejob he was given. 

My guess as to why they chose Metodey was probably because nobody has any clue who the guy is and they wanted to give him a little more than "yeah he's Edelgard's minion and he's kind of creepy". Now its "yeah he's Edelgard's minion, takes odd jobs every now and again, and he's still kind of creepy". It was a kinda cool nod to the base game, but i suppose that was it.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Anathaco said:

Technically Pallardo is still a merchant at this point, he's just a massive douche as well. It's seemingly not until post timeskip that he turns to outright thievery.

The quote omegaxis gave, to me, indicates that he backs out because he values the money he gets from Edelgard over whatever money he would have been given for this job- if the employer he referred to was the one who hired him to get the chalice, he won't be getting payed for screwing up and failing to retrieve it. So his concerns about getting paid probably stem from his actual job in the imperial army or whatever he is, rather than this sidejob he was given. 

My guess as to why they chose Metodey was probably because nobody has any clue who the guy is and they wanted to give him a little more than "yeah he's Edelgard's minion and he's kind of creepy". Now its "yeah he's Edelgard's minion, takes odd jobs every now and again, and he's still kind of creepy". It was a kinda cool nod to the base game, but i suppose that was it.

Well even before the time skip Palladrdo is trying to rob from Anna and when she tries to stop him he tries to have her and the party murdered. So I don't think it'd be entirely out of character for him to appear trying to swag the Chalice of Beginnings. I'm not going to tell people they're wrong when they see Metodey in that chapter and assume he's working as his own agent, but my personal reaction when I saw him was "This guy's an agent of the empire." Which is pretty reinforced in his battle quote when he says (sslightly paraphrase)  "Hehehe, soon everyone will know I'm an agent of the empire. Gah, I shouldn't have told you that. Well it won't matter if you're dead."

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Jotari said:

Well even before the time skip Palladrdo is trying to rob from Anna and when she tries to stop him he tries to have her and the party murdered. So I don't think it'd be entirely out of character for him to appear trying to swag the Chalice of Beginnings. I'm not going to tell people they're wrong when they see Metodey in that chapter and assume he's working as his own agent, but my personal reaction when I saw him was "This guy's an agent of the empire." Which is pretty reinforced in his battle quote when he says (sslightly paraphrase)  "Hehehe, soon everyone will know I'm an agent of the empire. Gah, I shouldn't have told you that. Well it won't matter if you're dead."

Isn't that still after the timeskip, where fives years of war has been raging?

Also, Metodey's battalion is "Thieves Raid". He's clearly not acting as an agent of the Empire, but literally working with a bunch of thieves. 

The quote you are referring to is actually this:

Quote

Metodey: Just a few more moons, then all will know that I am the Empire's— Hm-hm-hm... Forget I said anything. Then again, if you die, it won't matter either way!

Moons in 3H is referring to months, because each month has moon in it. 

Metodey is saying that he's affiliated with the Empire by slip of the tongue, but he's talking about how he's supposed to be revealing himself a few months later, which is in regards to the attack on the Holy Tomb during Chapter 12. 

Meaning right now, he's not acting as an agent of the Empire.

Hell, Metodey literally didn't expect Edelgard to be there, and even tried to say that he can explain his reasons for being there.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Isn't that still after the timeskip, where fives years of war has been raging?

 

In Black Eagles it's post time skip, but in the other routes Anna's paralogue is pre time skip.

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, Metodey's battalion is "Thieves Raid". He's clearly not acting as an agent of the Empire, but literally working with a bunch of thieves. 

The quote you are referring to is actually this:

Moons in 3H is referring to months, because each month has moon in it. 

Metodey is saying that he's affiliated with the Empire by slip of the tongue, but he's talking about how he's supposed to be revealing himself a few months later, which is in regards to the attack on the Holy Tomb during Chapter 12. 

Meaning right now, he's not acting as an agent of the Empire.

Hell, Metodey literally didn't expect Edelgard to be there, and even tried to say that he can explain his reasons for being there.

Well he's obviously not meant to be openly working with the empire. If he were here completely unaffiliated with the empire why is he randomly thinking about how he's affiliated with the empire? Why would he let that loose as a slip of a tongue? Him mistakenly saying it makes a lot more sense if that's what he's secretly doing right at that moment. Further more, if he is meant to be completely unaffiliated with the empire at this time then why would they even put that line in? They have no reason to point out the connection unless they want the player to be reminded of it and connect dots.

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

In Black Eagles it's post time skip, but in the other routes Anna's paralogue is pre time skip.

Well he's obviously not meant to be openly working with the empire. If he were here completely unaffiliated with the empire why is he randomly thinking about how he's affiliated with the empire? Why would he let that loose as a slip of a tongue? Him mistakenly saying it makes a lot more sense if that's what he's secretly doing right at that moment. Further more, if he is meant to be completely unaffiliated with the empire at this time then why would they even put that line in? They have no reason to point out the connection unless they want the player to be reminded of it and connect dots.

Because this guy literally shows up one time in the entire story of 3H, and this is the only other time he'll ever show up. 

He's affiliated with the Empire, but he was not there cause Edelgard told him to be there. He's there cause Alfreic hired him for this situation, hence why Metodey literally had no idea that Edelgard would be there, is shocked, and is thus trying to plead with Edelgard for the blunder. 

 

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Because this guy literally shows up one time in the entire story of 3H, and this is the only other time he'll ever show up. 

He's affiliated with the Empire, but he was not there cause Edelgard told him to be there. He's there cause Alfreic hired him for this situation, hence why Metodey literally had no idea that Edelgard would be there, is shocked, and is thus trying to plead with Edelgard for the blunder. 

 

But they really have no reason to intentionally remind us that he showed up in the main story unless they want us to draw a connection to his role in the main story.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

But they really have no reason to intentionally remind us that he showed up in the main story unless they want us to draw a connection to his role in the main story.

His quote of the "few more moons" is literally a reference to the attack on the Holy Tomb. Cindered Shadows happens after Chapter 4, but long before Chapter 11 timewise. 

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

His quote of the "few more moons" is literally a reference to the attack on the Holy Tomb. Cindered Shadows happens after Chapter 4, but long before Chapter 11 timewise. 

But they really have no reason to intentionally remind us that he showed up in the main story unless they want us to draw a connection to his role in the main story.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Jotari said:

But they really have no reason to intentionally remind us that he showed up in the main story unless they want us to draw a connection to his role in the main story.

That's basically the point. It's to draw attention to the main story. He literally plays no real role in the story other than a reference to how there will be an attack on the Holy Tomb in a few months. 

But his appearance here isn't part of Edelgard's plan, it's literally hm being there cause Alfreic hired him to steal the Chalice. 

Like, dude, it's made clear that these attacks were orchestrated by Alfreic. 

There's no "Edelgard conspiracy" that you're trying to push onto here.

[Jotari]

55 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's basically the point. It's to draw attention to the main story. He literally plays no real role in the story other than a reference to how there will be an attack on the Holy Tomb in a few months. 

But his appearance here isn't part of Edelgard's plan, it's literally hm being there cause Alfreic hired him to steal the Chalice. 

Like, dude, it's made clear that these attacks were orchestrated by Alfreic. 

There's no "Edelgard conspiracy" that you're trying to push onto here.

You don't interpret as part of Edelgard's plan, but my interpretation is that the empire was involved by having an empire soldier show up. If you think Metody wasn't involved with the empire and was randomly monologuing to himself about how he's involved with the empire during a moment where he was specifically not working for the empire, then fair enough. You do you.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Wouldn't it have been nice if Cindered Shadows actually answered these questions. The route seems positively cowardly at actually addressing anything which might be important to the main plot.

Anyway, I never confused Metodey and Randolph, due to my introduction to the latter being on Azure Moon (where he's actually kinda memorable). I also have a weirdly good memory for random filler Fire Emblem bosses; if only I could trade this for the ability to better remember things which are actually useful. I do think it would have been cool if the game had had someone who was truly awful as an antagonist on one route be nice and your friend on another, though... but they might have shied away from that due to not wanting one of the routes to come off as the "villain" route. As mentioned Jeritza comes kinda close but they don't really commit in either direction IMO.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Wouldn't it have been nice if Cindered Shadows actually answered these questions. The route seems positively cowardly at actually addressing anything which might be important to the main plot.

Anyway, I never confused Metodey and Randolph, due to my introduction to the latter being on Azure Moon (where he's actually kinda memorable). I also have a weirdly good memory for random filler Fire Emblem bosses; if only I could trade this for the ability to better remember things which are actually useful. I do think it would have been cool if the game had had someone who was truly awful as an antagonist on one route be nice and your friend on another, though... but they might have shied away from that due to not wanting one of the routes to come off as the "villain" route. As mentioned Jeritza comes kinda close but they don't really commit in either direction IMO.

I do think the intention is that player is meant to think of the empire when Metody shows up. I don't think it's an accident they chose him. Like I said it could have been Palladro or an Agarthan or even a new character (all options that would make more sense for Aelfric to be in cahoots with than Metodey). But by making it Metody it makes for another possibility for the player to suspect to detract attention away from Aelfric...Not to any particularly great success I think as most people were pretty certain Aelfric was going to be the villain within five seconds of him showing up. Ashen Wolves story is actually pretty okay, it's just that its minimalism really hurts it. If Edelgard is a force working behind the scenes during it too then at least there's a bit more going on. Reasons like that is why I really wish Hubert had been in Cindered Shadows. But I suppose they didn't want to include him because Happi and Constance were already filling out the roster for magic users.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

You don't interpret as part of Edelgard's plan, but my interpretation is that the empire was involved by having an empire soldier show up. If you think Metody wasn't involved with the empire and was randomly monologuing to himself about how he's involved with the empire during a moment where he was specifically not working for the empire, then fair enough. You do you.

It makes even less sense if it was Edelgard's plan. Think about it.

The quote literally states that his employer pays more than this treasure is supposedly worth. The employer being Edelgard.

But if he was sent there by Edelgard, and hell, didn't even know that Edelgard was there, then his presence makes even less sense.

The random monologue is nothing more than fluff for story things that we know.

Same for how Dimitri asks Edelgard about her hair color.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

It makes even less sense if it was Edelgard's plan. Think about it.

The quote literally states that his employer pays more than this treasure is supposedly worth. The employer being Edelgard.

But if he was sent there by Edelgard, and hell, didn't even know that Edelgard was there, then his presence makes even less sense.

The random monologue is nothing more than fluff for story things that we know.

Same for how Dimitri asks Edelgard about her hair color.

He never says he didn't know Edelgard was there. Just acts sheepish when he faces her.