The removal of HMs was to the series’ detriment

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Maof06 said:

Fair enough. It is a good thing that you can beat the game smoothly using your favorites. Although I have to say Bibarel cannot replicate Empoleon's performance as a tank, unless it is used as a sacrificial lamb.

I didn't mean as a tank, but as a water-type Pokémon. I try to avoid type redundancy unless I'm going for a "all share one type" team or a "just the ones I want to try out regardless of viability as a team" run, and Bibarel is inevitable because it can be caught early on and can hold 4 HMs.

[Lord_Brand]

You know, I'd actually forgotten that you used to need certain Badges to use HM moves outside of battle. That's another layer of BS on top of the other two issues already outlined: the inability to replace HM moves normally even though HMs are reusable, and the fact most HM moves are junk in battle. So, that's three good reasons to remove HMs altogether.

[Venger_06]

2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

You know, I'd actually forgotten that you used to need certain Badges to use HM moves outside of battle. That's another layer of BS on top of the other two issues already outlined: the inability to replace HM moves normally even though HMs are reusable, and the fact most HM moves are junk in battle. So, that's three good reasons to remove HMs altogether.

They removed the badge requirement in Black and White.

[Lord_Brand]

6 hours ago, Maof06 said:

They removed the badge requirement in Black and White.

A step in the right direction. Then SM removed HMs outright, and all was well. I mean, yeah, it kinda sucks not to use your own Pokemon to explore. Being able to fly using Latias and Latios in ORAS is how I think many players have always wished Fly could work in the Pokemon games, something akin to Flammie in Secret of Mana. And it was always nice to Surf around on your own Pokemon, maybe go fishing on the back of your Lapras. I'm all for bringing back the ability to explore using your own Pokemon, I just don't think HM moves were the best way to implement the concept.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[henrymidfields]

I've mentioned this in r/pokemon in Reddit, but how about introducing field-battle moves split? For example, each specific Pokemon have specific field moves; Gyarados has Surf and Waterfall for example. There is no other limitation on the type of field moves you can use, as long as the specific Pokemon inherently knows them. They don't cost moveslots in battle as long as they remain as field moves to navigate lakes, rivers, and waterfalls in the field. However, you can also assign them into the battle moveslots for battle usage, in which case, of course it will use a slot. Thus Gyarados knows both Surf and Waterfall in the field, but in battle, you can make it such that Gyarados only knows Waterfall as a battle move, alongside Dragon Dance, Ice Fang, and Power Whip. Thus, Surf can only used for field navigation, but Waterfall can be both used for navigation and battle.

Edited October 5, 2021 by henrymidfields

[Acacia Sgt]

You know, in that brief moment between first seeing that segment of the Pokémon Direct and watching the rest of it, I though that was how they were going to make HM's work in BDSP. No taking up move slots, just have the Pokémon, then off you go.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:15 PM, henrymidfields said:

I've mentioned this in r/pokemon in Reddit, but how about introducing field-battle moves split? For example, each specific Pokemon have specific field moves; Gyarados has Surf and Waterfall for example. There is no other limitation on the type of field moves you can use, as long as the specific Pokemon inherently knows them. They don't cost moveslots in battle as long as they remain as field moves to navigate lakes, rivers, and waterfalls in the field. However, you can also assign them into the battle moveslots for battle usage, in which case, of course it will use a slot. Thus Gyarados knows both Surf and Waterfall in the field, but in battle, you can make it such that Gyarados only knows Waterfall as a battle move, alongside Dragon Dance, Ice Fang, and Power Whip. Thus, Surf can only used for field navigation, but Waterfall can be both used for navigation and battle.

One thing I'd love to see a future game do is, give each TYPE of Pokemon a field effect. This can be as mundane as Normal-types sniffing out hidden items (a la Stoutland in Gen VII), to Fire-types burning down brambles to reach new areas (an ersatz version of Cut), to Ice-types freezing waterfalls so that you can climg up them (inspiration obvious). And each gym would feature that type's special technique as a gimmick underlying its puzzles.

[Lord_Brand]

One thing I like about Fly and Surf is how your Trainer interacts with the Pokemon in different ways. With Fly, the Pokemon carries your trainer to different locations (and in Gen VI, you could outright free fly over Hoenn on Latias and Latios Secret of Mana-style). With Surf, you ride on your Pokemon through the water. And Gen VI introduced riding on certain Pokemon as an alternative to riding on your Bike, which is another idea I approve of. So, I'd like to see more Trainer-Pokemon interactions like that.

Another idea I think would be interesting, is if you could somehow take control of your Pokemon for puzzles and exploration. Say, a small hole that your Pikachu can fit into, or a body of water that your Squirtle can explore. Your Pokemon could carry either your Bag or a "Pokebag" that allows it to carry and use items such as Potions, though Pokeballs are exempt from this. If your Pokemon faints, a special device warps it straight back to you. There could even be double and triple team variants of this exploration mechanic, allowing two or even three of your Pokemon to travel together as a party, perhaps even help each other out. If you send, say, a Lapras with Pikachu, it can give the electric mouse a ride across water. However, there could be size and weight restrictions; it'd be ridiculous for an Onix to ride on a tiny little Azurill in the water, and a dinky Bulbasaur will have trouble moving a big, heavy Golem around using its vines.

In addition to hostile Pokemon, there could be friendly Pokemon that will help your Pokemon or give them items, generally in return for giving them a gift or providing some kind of service to them. On occasion, you might be able to add the friendly Pokemon to your team through your Pokemon inviting it to join them. Once your Pokemon make it back to you with their new friend, the Pokemon will happily allow you to catch it.

[henrymidfields]

On 10/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Another idea I think would be interesting, is if you could somehow take control of your Pokemon for puzzles and exploration. Say, a small hole that your Pikachu can fit into, or a body of water that your Squirtle can explore. Your Pokemon could carry either your Bag or a "Pokebag" that allows it to carry and use items such as Potions, though Pokeballs are exempt from this. If your Pokemon faints, a special device warps it straight back to you. There could even be double and triple team variants of this exploration mechanic, allowing two or even three of your Pokemon to travel together as a party, perhaps even help each other out. If you send, say, a Lapras with Pikachu, it can give the electric mouse a ride across water.

I remember seeing Pikachu crawl up the ceiling in Celadon City's Team Rocket's Hideout in the Let's Go remakes! Maybe we could expand this idea in Gen 9, or Pokemon SwSh2/Lance!

On 10/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Lord_Brand said:

However, there could be size and weight restrictions; it'd be ridiculous for an Onix to ride on a tiny little Azurill in the water, and a dinky Bulbasaur will have trouble moving a big, heavy Golem around using its vines.

Your mere mention of this just made me want to see an Azurill ferrying an Onix, and a Fletchling flying its trainer. Yeah, I know it's ridiculous lol. I'm sadistic😈, and I also want to see how it looks like lolol. 😜

On 10/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Lord_Brand said:

In addition to hostile Pokemon, there could be friendly Pokemon that will help your Pokemon or give them items, generally in return for giving them a gift or providing some kind of service to them. On occasion, you might be able to add the friendly Pokemon to your team through your Pokemon inviting it to join them. Once your Pokemon make it back to you with their new friend, the Pokemon will happily allow you to catch it.

 Back to a serious note, I always wonder why that hasn't been a thing even now. There's been friendly interactions between Ash and Co and wild Pokemon in the anime (not sure about the Adventures manga) - it'll be nice to see similar things in the game, even just to add the detail touches in worldbuilding the Pokeverse and its culture. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by henrymidfields

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:11 PM, Lord_Brand said:

In addition to hostile Pokemon, there could be friendly Pokemon that will help your Pokemon or give them items, generally in return for giving them a gift or providing some kind of service to them. On occasion, you might be able to add the friendly Pokemon to your team through your Pokemon inviting it to join them. Once your Pokemon make it back to you with their new friend, the Pokemon will happily allow you to catch it.

Maybe "friendly Pokemon" could function like the move tutors in FRLG? You'd interact with them, and they'd offer to teach a move to one of your party Pokemon. Scyther could teach Fury Cutter, or Hypno could teach Hypnosis, for instance. Maybe you'd have to feed them the proper Berry type, to acquire their services?