Circumstances of Grado Remnants

[orangeapple]

I wish they showed more cutscenes depicting the circumstances of the remnants of the Grado army.
In chapter 17, River of Regrets, the Frelians mention how the Grado remnants were furiously fighting back and pushing back the Frelian vanguard even though their nation was conquered.
In chapter 19, the Grado remnants strike all the way to the Rausten capital fortress and nearly capture it.
The remnants would rather fight to the last man rather than surrender. The Grado remnants keep following their prince no matter what. The Demon King is obviously not mind controlling an entire army because nowhere in the game has it been mentioned that he has the ability to do that.

There's a lot more room to make the remnants more sympathetic, by emphasizing honor, loyalty, and whatnot. Give them some faces, instead of being faceless remnants. There's room for a final dramatic cutscene to tie things up for the grado army on chapter 19 in my opinion. For example, an elite grado commander (maybe a retired general) is able to take the Rausten sacred stone, but gets convinced not to destroy it for the good of mankind, disobeying Lyon's orders. Then he commits suicide to preserve his honor for failing his mission from Lyon or something. Then the rest of the remnants join up with our army onto chapter 20. All five nations unite once more to take down the demon king.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, orangeapple said:

I wish they showed more cutscenes depicting the circumstances of the remnants of the Grado army.
In chapter 17, River of Regrets, the Frelians mention how the Grado remnants were furiously fighting back and pushing back the Frelian vanguard even though their nation was conquered.
In chapter 19, the Grado remnants strike all the way to the Rausten capital fortress and nearly capture it.
The remnants would rather fight to the last man rather than surrender. The Grado remnants keep following their prince no matter what. The Demon King is obviously not mind controlling an entire army because nowhere in the game has it been mentioned that he has the ability to do that.

There's a lot more room to make the remnants more sympathetic, by emphasizing honor, loyalty, and whatnot. Give them some faces, instead of being faceless remnants. There's room for a final dramatic cutscene to tie things up for the grado army on chapter 19 in my opinion. For example, an elite grado commander (maybe a retired general) is able to take the Rausten sacred stone, but gets convinced not to destroy it for the good of mankind, disobeying Lyon's orders. Then he commits suicide to preserve his honor for failing his mission from Lyon or something. Then the rest of the remnants join up with our army onto chapter 20. All five nations unite once more to take down the demon king.

What do you mean they don't have a face. That have this lovely mug leading them.

 

[OriginalRaisins]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:49 PM, orangeapple said:

There's a lot more room to make the remnants more sympathetic, by emphasizing honor, loyalty, and whatnot. Give them some faces, instead of being faceless remnants.

Honor and Loyalty were for Selena's unit. The Grado remnants all belonged to either Orson or Riev, neither of whom particularly cared about the well-being of their subjects or soldiers.

The story of FE8 focuses on the corruption of good people and the loss of one's humanity. This is made evident from chapter 1, where the 3 imperial generals are joined by 3 more. Selena is replaced by Riev, showing how loyalty is corrupted by tyranny. Glen is replaced by Valter, showing how love of family is corrupted by lust. Duessel is replaced by Caellach, showing how pride and honor are corrupted by personal ambition. Lastly, Lyon literally gives up his soul to save his own father, and slowly descends into madness. You'll have to forgive me if any of these comparisons seem a stretch, I literally just came up with them on the fly.

Given this overall theme, how then would any amount of sympathy toward the remnant help in chapter 17, which is all about Lyon's ugly transformation into the demon king? Or why would the remnant appear honorable or just in chapter 19, which is Riev's attempt to quell the last good kingdom on the continent? The faceless Grado remnant is meant to be what remains of an empire after everything good has been removed. If you need further evidence of this point, look at support convos featuring Duessel, Natasha, Cormag, and Amelia. Each of them fights for Eirika and Ephraim out of a sense of loyalty to Grado, justifying their actions with the logic of "the Grado I love does not exist anymore". In order for these supports to be true, the Grado remnant needs to be irredeemable - for if they were good and honorable soldiers, then those four units would defect from your army.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, OriginalRaisins said:

Honor and Loyalty were for Selena's unit. The Grado remnants all belonged to either Orson or Riev, neither of whom particularly cared about the well-being of their subjects or soldiers.

The story of FE8 focuses on the corruption of good people and the loss of one's humanity. This is made evident from chapter 1, where the 3 imperial generals are joined by 3 more. Selena is replaced by Riev, showing how loyalty is corrupted by tyranny. Glen is replaced by Valter, showing how love of family is corrupted by lust. Duessel is replaced by Caellach, showing how pride and honor are corrupted by personal ambition. Lastly, Lyon literally gives up his soul to save his own father, and slowly descends into madness. You'll have to forgive me if any of these comparisons seem a stretch, I literally just came up with them on the fly.

Given this overall theme, how then would any amount of sympathy toward the remnant help in chapter 17, which is all about Lyon's ugly transformation into the demon king? Or why would the remnant appear honorable or just in chapter 19, which is Riev's attempt to quell the last good kingdom on the continent? The faceless Grado remnant is meant to be what remains of an empire after everything good has been removed. If you need further evidence of this point, look at support convos featuring Duessel, Natasha, Cormag, and Amelia. Each of them fights for Eirika and Ephraim out of a sense of loyalty to Grado, justifying their actions with the logic of "the Grado I love does not exist anymore". In order for these supports to be true, the Grado remnant needs to be irredeemable - for if they were good and honorable soldiers, then those four units would defect from your army.

Yeah love of family being corrupted by lust is a bit of a stretch. You've got to have at least a little incest to pull a theme like that.

[Heptade]

I do find it weird is that despite being described as the lowly remnants of a dead empire, they still manage to be so powerful. Yes of course they have to get stronger for gameplay reasons, and the recapturing of Renais makes sense, since you have to reconquer what was lost: Orson's forces, despite belonging to a fallen nation, make a last-ditch attempt to keep what they have conquered. But Riev's invasion of Rausten, while ultimately unsuccessful, was nonetheless implied to be an actual threat story-wise. It is a defense chapter of all things. A nearly-successful invasion of a living nation by a dead one. And unlike Riev's usual subordinates, the enemies there are not monsters, but humans. Where did he find so many people? 

[Paper Jam]

Who says they're all "people"? FE7 had "human" units that were actually morphs, which are basically undead, and we know that at least one of the "human" units in FE8 was actually undead. Maybe the forces that Riev led against Rausten were undead too.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Paper Jam said:

Who says they're all "people"? FE7 had "human" units that were actually morphs, which are basically undead, and we know that at least one of the "human" units in FE8 was actually undead. Maybe the forces that Riev led against Rausten were undead too.

By human units do you mean Monica? Because I wouldn't call her a unit. That's a term I'd reserve for the actual characters as a gameplay entity in the game which Monica doesn't appear as. And when people see her she's clearly...Oh wait, no, you're obviously talking about Vigarde. Whoops my bad. Eh, should I even bother to posted this comment now? Yeah, sure why not. Fair point, Vigarde fights as a zombie so the remnants could easily be fresher corpses than the revanants and other such enemies you fight.

[Shadow Mir]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:59 AM, Paper Jam said:

Who says they're all "people"? FE7 had "human" units that were actually morphs, which are basically undead, and we know that at least one of the "human" units in FE8 was actually undead. Maybe the forces that Riev led against Rausten were undead too.

Personally, I think the morphs are more similar to homunculi. See here:

http://thecrusadergrant.blogspot.com/2018/09/of-morphs-and-homunculi.html