What are your thoughts on how the protagonists of RD were handled in relation to the overall story?

[null]

This thread idea was sparked by a little discussion with another user, but what are your opinions on how Ike, Elincia, and Micaiah were handled as protagonists within RD's narrative?

I've heard multiple perspectives on this, but to me at least, I've always seen the amount of screen time, focus, portrayal, etc. as being fairly balanced between these characters for most of the game, barring Part 4, where Yune overrides Micaiah and relegates her to being little more than a body for Yune to use. That's unfortunate, to be honest, since Micaiah could have gotten even more of a role in RD's plot had that not been the writers' decision. I don't really see any one person being RD's lead character though. Whereas PoR was Ike's story, RD seems to me to be Tellius's story, encompassing multiple sides and viewpoints while telling one cohesive narrative.

But what are your thoughts on this? Do you see the characters' roles as unbalanced, or did you think that each side got their due representation within the plot? And also, feel free to share whatever related thoughts or opinions you have about RD's lead characters, if you have them.

Edited December 9, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Interdimensional Observer]

There is going to be a lot of sharply different opinions on this I'd say.

But, as for myself, I'll try to keep it relatively short, simple, and not harsh.:

• Micaiah
  • Part 1, She is fine, a bit rushed unfortunately, maybe a little overcome by her powers for a moment or two, but fine.
  • Part 3- She is shorn of her powers and body-slammed with the Blood Pact. I appreciate her struggling in a hopeless and impossible situation.
  • Part 4- She is sadly swallowed by her powers in the form of Yune possession now, and Ike.
• Elincia:
  • She is filler, irrelevant to the main plot, but good filler.
  • She was a deuteragonist in PoR who didn't develop much, but was in the limelight. In RD, she gets to step out of Ike's shadow and experiences good character development. She goes from timid, indecisive, and unable to confront her own nobles, to being able to stand with confidence as an equal of Tibarn, a monarch with far more experience and everything else.
• Ike
  • I don't mind a stoic badass with a liking to fight, at least he keeps it in check. Lack of development is okay.
  • I don't blame Ike for all the favoritism the plot gives him. Him being placed on the objectively good side of the P3 conflict is to Micaiah's detriment, and him being the star of Part 4 Final is to Micaiah's tragic loss. These are faults of the writing that do involve Ike, but I wouldn't say they're written such that I can blame him directly. -But can I really blame a fictional character who by not existing IRL has no agency of their own?
    • As for what "blame him directly" would mean, maybe, if I should make this divide, I could use Sacred Stones for an example. Ephraim has to rescue Eirika in Scorching Sands, to Eirika's loss as a character. Ike vs. Micaiah in Part 3 isn't the same, because RD wanted to have Beorc vs. Laguz conflict, it assigned Micaiah to the Beorc side to give it a hero. Which wouldn't be bad were it not for the two sides being lopsided in favor of the Laguz. There is no greater reason why Eirika had to be rescued by Ephraim.
      • Again, I don't know if I should make this distinction. I don't always regard my own "developed" arguments as ironclad, I accept that I could be wrong.
• Skrimir
  • Yes! I count Skrimir. Call me biased towards him if you will.
  • Why not count Tibarn as the equal to Skrimir? Tibarn is old and though he changes a little, he is mostly a pre-developed character. And unlike Ike, he can't ever have claimed to have been mostly undeveloped. Tibarn, like Soren, Sanaki, Ranulf, Pelleas, and Elincia actually, are deuteragonists who form RD's unusual for FE attempt at something of an "ensemble".
  • Skrimir is a deuteragonist I think you can say, Ike and Micaiah are the only true protagonists there are. However, I insist that Skrimir is the closest we get in either Tellius game to a main protagonist for the Laguz. Which is odd, when you consider the Tellius (which to be fair was always defined with Ike as its main hero) is quite often about Beorc and their alternatively violent and peaceful coexistences with the Laguz.
  • Skrimir has a character arc. He starts as a proud, hotheaded beast who hates tactics, loves charging into battle, and ends up calming down and learning the importance of strategy. It is not complicated in the least, but this growth which takes place over Part 3 and ends with Part 4 Prologue, is something I've come to like.🙂

Edited December 9, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Spara]

I think it really suffers later on from being too Ike-centric. Elincia has her arc in Part 2, which is a nice follow-up to PoR, so her slightly decreased relevance later on is alright - she's an important character, we've seen her development, and she's become a fully realized queen and major character in the war. Micaiah has her own arc for the whole game, and I find it very entertaining and interesting to watch play out in the story. Ike, however, has had his full arc in PoR, and acts as the protagonist of the longest part of the game. His army gets their own equivalent of Part 1, which would be nice if they had somewhere to go with the returning characters. Skrimir needed more presence here, because as-is, he has development but a lot of the time he could've benefited from goes to Ike. This isn't a big deal so far, but it'll become a bit more problematic later.

Part 4 is where this really starts to stick out. Ike starts to become the main leader, which makes some sense still, but really just feels a bit unfair when we've got all these royals and other important people to lead the army as a whole. It's only a minor shift so far, but it'll get worse later - specifically, when they reach Sienne. Ike, just kinda out of nowhere, becomes the leader of the team who's going to kill Ashera, while the rest fight off whatever Disciples Ashera may send at them.

4-E-1 is where Micaiah's whole conflict and arc just suddenly kinda conclude with Lekain's death - but Lekain and the Begnion senate drove the entire conflict of the game up until Part 4 (I know Lehran does the whole it-was-me-all-along deal, the end of the Senators really ought to have been pushed back a couple maps. Personally, I think that BK -> Dheginsea -> Senate -> Lehran -> Ashera would've fit the game's conflicts more, as we'd get conclusion for Ike's character, take out the ancient Dheginsea, then conclude Micaiah's arc with Lekain before taking on Lehran and Ashera. This should be a massive moment for her - this man has been responsible for the deaths of all the Herons (save 4), drove Lehran mad, forced Micaiah into hiding in Daein, and caused the war and all its related atrocities. However, with the current structure and writing, Ike's fight with the BK gets delayed more for greater tension, while Lekain just dies in 4-E-1 and Micaiah gets a quick scene of "well hey we got the blood pact now, guess we're done." Dheginsea is kind of a neutral territory for this discussion, but Ike gets a lot more dialogue with Lehran than Micaiah does, when Lehran is literally Micaiah's descendant and the man who basically allowed for her to hear the voice of Yune in her head via the seal. Yet their boss dialogue is super short, and then Yune does all the talking after.

Finally, with Ashera, Micaiah just kinda is there to give Ike the magic power-up to kill Ashera. Then, after Yune shows up outside of Micaiah again, Ike gets the cutscene dialogue that is supposed to give all the thematic conclusion - not the person who lived with Yune and thus would have more to say with more weight for her entire life. And then Ike gets most of the epilogue scenes while Micaiah gets maybe one or two with a small little blurb, while Ike gets his own screen describing him as a hero of legend. Hell, even the art of him as a silhouette on a while background gets is the "Fin" screen, and not art of him with Micaiah or any of the other major characters. 

Sorry for wall of text, but I have quite a bit to say about this. I love RD, but some of the writing really needed to be helped with stuff like this in Parts 3&4. 

[vanguard333]

It's a good question. Honestly, Radiant Dawn's plot was juggling a lot, and, in retrospect, it is impressive that it turned out as well as it did.

Ike:

I think Ike was well-utilized. He had his story and growth in Path of Radiance, so I like that the story uses him as an experienced protagonist and more just checks off the last few things on the checklist of things to do with Ike as a character. I like that he doesn't appear until part 3, but is mentioned by characters at different points where it would be natural for him to be brought up.

As for whether or not the plot favoured him too much in parts 3 and 4, I can kind-of see it, but I think it's more from the other characters needing to have been given a bit more, rather than Ike needing to have been given a bit less, if that makes sense.

 

Micaiah:

Micaiah certainly starts off strong. She's definitely well-utilized in part 1. In part 3, …I'm torn. I do think that the Dawn Brigade could've used a few more chapters. I like that there is a fair amount of attention put on her and the Dawn Brigade in the latter half, and it makes sense that they're not present in the first half, but I really don't like how the Dawn Brigade in part 3 is basically a better-written prototype of Conquest: protagonist is having to work for bad guy until they find a way to undermine the bad guy. I think Radiant Dawn, even with blood pacts being the reason Micaiah's having to help Begnion, is handled better than Conquest, but it doesn't even get the "undermine the villains" until part 4, and I feel like there needed to be more for Micaiah in these chapters. 

As for part 4, there she really needed more. It's possible to make a host character still relevant to a story, but it requires for them to still be making a lot of decisions and doing things. Micaiah gets some dialogue with Ike and Sothe, and I honestly can't remember anything else she does. If she had some important conversations with Yune (such conversations would obviously have to be in their shared head due when Micaiah is being Yune's host), if there was more reason for Yune and Micaiah to swap between who's in control, etc. One of the biggest issues is that there's really no conflict left that's Micaiah's battle to fight outside of Numida; there's no antagonist that makes things personal or really has any dynamic with Micaiah that actually gets explored: Lekain is Sanaki's foe, the Black Knight is Ike's, Degihnsea is Kurthnaga's, Sephiran is Sanaki's again, and Ashera doesn't have any dynamic with anyone outside of Sephiran if you recruit him.

It's almost as if they wrote Micaiah, and then tried to write how she'd be relevant in later chapters, and the rest of the Dawn Brigade have this problem to.

 

Elincia:

Her story in part 2 is interesting; she really shows the end result of her character growth in Path of Radiance and even manages to develop even further. The problem is that part 2 has no impact on part 3 or 4. I've seen people call it filler, and I agree with that insofar as it does nothing to push the plot forward. All it's really doing is worldbuilding and bringing the audience up to speed on what's going on in Tellius three years after the events of Path of Radiance. It establishes that Crimea is still recovering and cannot afford to risk another war; setting the stage for the neutrality conflict in part 3. 

The worst part is that it really wouldn't take much to make Elincia's arc push the plot forward; all one really has to do to make it relevant is establish that Ludveck's coup is being helped by outside forces. Sephiran was working behind the scenes to restore Daein's independence (while also making Pelleas sign Lekain's blood pact) in order to make Daein able to take part in war. All we needed was for him to be trying to pull similar strings in Crimea and this time failing. Of course, that only fixes the problem of it being disconnected from the rest of the plot; it doesn't really fix its lack of relevance.

Elincia doesn't really see much involvement in parts 3 or 4 outside of the neutrality conflict, but, with how many main characters the story's having to juggle, I don't think she really needed much more, especially since she does get to confront Valtome in part 4. All she really needs is for part 2 to be better connected and relevant to the rest of the plot.

[Benice]

I by and large agree with what Spara said; however I am heavily biased against Ike for reasons that I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now.

To tack on what I think to what he already says, I feel like the story relies too much on Ike; I feel like I would have enjoyed part 3 more if it had been:

1. Prologue and ch. 1 one play as normal, followed by the removal of chapter 2 and 4, since they don't really add much. (Maybe keep one of them, though.) Keep chapter 5, 6 and 7 as we know it, then stop after 7. That's five maps for the laguz alliance and Ike and one for Micaiah.
2. After ch. 7, the story focuses on Sanaki and what she's up to; the next four-five chapters can focus on the political situation in Begnion, the division within the population, laguz, etc.. Plus, Tormod and .co can be there so that they don't have a 953567383 map gap between appearances.
3. Have two maps focusing on the crimean royal knights; we already have one, but the second one is just Ike saving Elincia for the second time in twelve chapters. 
4. Change chapter 11, if only because Mekkah's bridge is an annoying map; I'd rather have this one be catching Daein in a snare between the Crimean Roya knights and the laguz alliance.
5. I'd keep the next couple chapters the way they were, personally.

As for part 4, just change the way Ike and Yune are intergrated into the plot; I'd personally go with Skrimir/Micaiah as one army, Ike/Sanaki for the next and Elincia/Tibarn for the third.

As for the tower, I agree wholeheartedly with what Spara said there too. I'd also want to make it so that not only Ike can land the final blow on the final boss and have the epilogue not being just the Ike show.

[Shrimpica]

I agree pretty much with what Vanguard said.

Honestly, i think most problems of RD stem from the existence of the blood pact. It robs Miccy, who was a strong rebellion leader in P1, from her character and makes her a puppet. Her following Pellas without asking anything is a major gripe i have with her character. And later on she get's overshadowed with the imo much better Yune.

Ike was done perfectly in RD, Elincia lacked some relevance but done well, Miccy should've had more agency in general and not been Pellas/Izuka's puppet....

However, while i mention that, there's something else people keep forgetting, that fits very well with how the character acted, even with Miccy' non-agency...

RD is also a story about chaos vs. order. It's not only Yune and Ashera who represent those...

But Ike and Miccy, too.

The wild buttle hungry chaotic Ike vs. the orderly orders following Miccy.

Them coming together at the end to face the end of the world represents Ashunera being whole again, with Chaos and Order coming together again.

[NinjaMonkey]

I like how Ike steals Micaiah's spotlight in Part 3.

[L3xandr3]

My favorite FE's on the shopping block, eh? Eh, sure, why not.

1. Micaiah's Ok. A little Mary Sue-ish, but it fits wit her Lore/Character. Part 3 screws her over with the Plot-contract. RIP her in Part 4, but Yune's funny, I guess.
2. Elincia's great. I wish she had more time in the spotlight.
3. Ike's... Well, IDK, he's Ike. He develops as much as a block of wood in Radiant Dawn. And, yes, I think RD would've been better if Ike had only been a supporting character. Skimir's way more interesting. Why can't we have a Laguz Lord?

13 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I like how Ike steals Micaiah's spotlight in Part 3.

You do you.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I have a lot of thoughts on this that I do not currently have the brain power to expand upon thanks to exams and other such issues. I shall return to this thread at a later date to expand but in short form:

1. Micaiah is great, I have bias, she needed more spotlight in the latter half of the game and to not be taken over by Yune.
2. Ike was alright. I didn't like how he completely took over in Part 4 but that's more an issue with Micaiah being relegated to Yune puppet than anything against Ike. He's cool.
3. Elincia had a great character arc and a wonderful piece of the story but her plot relevance was absolutely 0 and she either needed to have her part be relegated to optional content and have her part be taken over by someone else, or be written in as a more central figure. I prefer the first solution because she is not the protagonist of the game, Ike and Micaiah are.

[Icelerate]

Micaiah is the main protagonist of RD. Her actions cause or at the very least influence most of the events in the story and she's also present in more chapters than Ike. I don't think Elincia should be classified as a protagonist of RD unless you want to classify characters like Fjorm, Eir and Peony as protagonists just because they were a protagonist within a book. Being protagonist in part two is not the same as being a protagonist within RD as a whole. 

So in terms of plot relevance, Micaiah>Ike>>Elincia. As for whether the role of the characters in unbalanced, well firstly there is no reason why all protagonists need to have the same amount of importance but we can still criticize it based on context. RD has this problem where the writers decide in the beginning that Micaiah is the main protagonist, hence why she's the only protagonist on the cover but, then the game ends up changing its mind at the end to make Ike the main protagonist in the epilogue where only Ike is mentioned before the end. Him also being the one to get the final word with Yune is also pretty dumb IMO as Micaiah is the actual Apostle and we don't get to see Micaiah actually talk with Yune.  

As for how well-written the characters are, Micaiah is the best written character in Tellius IMO. Her character growth from a very idealistic girl to a ruthless general is very interesting. As is her character growth from a secluded girl who did not want attention to a Queen who would be forced to be in the public sphere is also great. She also changes her opinion on Ike over time.  Speaking of Ike, he is a bit underwhelming in RD but decent overall. Elincia is pretty good overall for someone who is not a protagonist. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Icelerate

[Etrurian emperor]

I can appreciate the bigger focus on the non lord characters. The lords are typically accompanied by characters who by themselves aren't mayor characters but get a lot of prominence and screentime because they logically should be important in the story. Tauroneo was hardly the most relevant character in POR but he's the most senior soldier in Daein, and the game really does its best to show him as such. Even when Michaia takes charges he's always around in a leading role. Ike also has this with  Skrimir who is also depicted as a very leading figure in the story with his own little arc. There's also Tibarn who grows from the Gotoh he was in POR to somewhat of a main character in his own right. Having the lord just be one member of the heroic leadership with minor and mayor characters alike being equally important makes the world feel larger, which is a good thing. 

I think Micaiah is really interesting in how she subverts the typical role of a lord later on. However I think the game also goes a bit too far in this and that its to her detriment that she's so obviously in the wrong. Even the narration makes it crystal clear that of the two only Ike is in the right. ''A hero sides with the Laguz and justice, while the maiden fights for Daein and the Beorc''. Her being driven to this by the Begnion Senate who aside from Lekain are mostly incompetent isn't entirely satisfying either. 

Of the main characters the writing of the Black Knight is by far the weakest. The game takes great effort in painting him as a noble adversary and valiant knight, but this role isn't just completely incompatible with how the Black Knight was portrayed in the previous game, but also with the motive that this game gives him. In the previous game the Black Knight was far more menacing and callous. He gloats about how he's going to torture Mist and seems to have a grudge against Greil and his family. It would be one thing if RD presents him as noble because we're seeing him from Michaia's perspective but even when he interacts with Ike again the Black Knights take the role of a noble adversary. And while the game tries to depict the Black Knight as noble they also reveal that the only reason he murdered a man and orphaned his children is just because he wanted  to see if he had the ability to do so. 

 

[kradeelav]

I'm not a fan of Ike, Elincia or Micaiah (at least versus some of the other minor characters and Sanaki, I don't like lords in general), but I do think Micaiah got undeservedly screwed over by P1&3's rushed chapters - it was almost like the game was trying to shove four games into one and stitched together the parts that absolutely could not be cut.  Would've really loved to see more of the actual ethical tension of the blood pact playing out and her having to face some of the minor characters rebelling against having to fight the laguz - likewise a little more of the fun light moments in the Daein crew before shit went down. Would've made the contrast between 'yay we won the war!' to 'whaT the shit??-' more meaningful.

Sanaki was another quasi-lord character I felt like needed way more limelight given she is the Empress of Begnion, and the whole Altina/Lehran/Sephiran plot had actual emotional resonance for her.

Likewise as somebody else mentioned above, having at least Micaiah/Elincia/Sanaki be able to land the final blow on Ashera would have been metal.  Almost like a mini three-houses situation where you could choose who you wanted to be important, and who got some of the more crucial lines in P4  .. shit, that would've solved a lot. Streamlined the game, too. 

 

 

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

My favorite FE's on the shopping block, eh? Eh, sure, why not.

1. Micaiah's Ok. A little Mary Sue-ish, but it fits wit her Lore/Character. Part 3 screws her over with the Plot-contract. RIP her in Part 4, but Yune's funny, I guess.

In what way, shape or form? I think the fact that this thread is basically a discussion on whether or not she gets overshadowed is conclusive proof that she's about as far from a Mary Sue as it gets. Characters like Corrin and Alm are Mary Sues because they overtake and overshadow everyone else and the plot itself. They bend and distort the story around themselves. A protagonist that arguably gets overshadowed is far from a Mary Sue, so I have to ask: what did you mean by "a little Mary Sue-ish"?

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I can appreciate the bigger focus on the non lord characters. The lords are typically accompanied by characters who by themselves aren't mayor characters but get a lot of prominence and screentime because they logically should be important in the story. Tauroneo was hardly the most relevant character in POR but he's the most senior soldier in Daein, and the game really does its best to show him as such. Even when Michaiah takes charges he's always around in a leading role. Ike also has this with  Skrimir who is also depicted as a very leading figure in the story with his own little arc. There's also Tibarn who grows from the Gotoh he was in POR to somewhat of a main character in his own right. Having the lord just be one member of the heroic leadership with minor and mayor characters alike being equally important makes the world feel larger, which is a good thing. 

 

Of the main characters the writing of the Black Knight is by far the weakest. The game takes great effort in painting him as a noble adversary and valiant knight, but this role isn't just completely incompatible with how the Black Knight was portrayed in the previous game, but also with the motive that this game gives him. In the previous game the Black Knight was far more menacing and callous. He gloats about how he's going to torture Mist and seems to have a grudge against Greil and his family. It would be one thing if RD presents him as noble because we're seeing him from Micaiah's perspective but even when he interacts with Ike again the Black Knights take the role of a noble adversary. And while the game tries to depict the Black Knight as noble they also reveal that the only reason he murdered a man and orphaned his children is just because he wanted  to see if he had the ability to do so. 

1) I completely agree; Radiant Dawn does do a lot to make non-lord characters also have a lot of involvement in the plot. It and Path of Radiance both did a good job in that regard.

2) I kind-of agree/kind-of disagree. I agree that the game does a lot of painting Zelgius as a noble character in a rather overt way (personally I think it could've been toned down), but I never really saw it as conflicting with the other aspects of him. He's a loyal dog of Sephiran with only one ambition that's entirely his own: surpassing his former teacher in combat, and to either end, he'll be as nice or ruthless as he feels he needs to be.

I guess I'm just used to it because it's a lot closer to what chivalry actually was like more often in Europe: chivalry, in the practical sense rather than the romanticized sense, was really whatever a knight's master said he wanted out of his knights, and that usually basically amounted to being a loyal, competent thug, if put a bit reductively. Their "honor" did not stop them from being able to do some terrible things; just look at chevauchee warfare for an example.

Edited December 10, 2020 by vanguard333

[NinjaMonkey]

17 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Radiant Dawn does to a lot to make non-lord characters also have a lot of involvement in the plot

All of which are already-established characters from PoR, unless you're named Skrimir or Pelleas.

Edited December 10, 2020 by NinjaMonkey

[vanguard333]

55 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

All of which are already-established characters from PoR, unless you're named Skrimir or Pelleas.

Them being pre-established would (in theory at least) make it all the more likely for them to be less involved in the plot, so that actually makes it more impressive. 

 

6 hours ago, Father Shrimpas said:

I agree pretty much with what Vanguard said.

Thanks.

 

6 hours ago, Father Shrimpas said:

However, while i mention that, there's something else people keep forgetting, that fits very well with how the character acted, even with Miccy' non-agency...

RD is also a story about chaos vs. order. It's not only Yune and Ashera who represent those...

But Ike and Miccy, too.

The wild battle hungry chaotic Ike vs. the orderly orders following Miccy.

Them coming together at the end to face the end of the world represents Ashunera being whole again, with Chaos and Order coming together again.

This I'm not so sure about. Ike can be reckless, but he's rather tempered by Radiant Dawn; I would exactly call him wild or chaotic, especially not when he's standing next to Skrimir. I'd also hesitate about Micaiah being big on order and following orders.

[L3xandr3]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

In what way, shape or form? I think the fact that this thread is basically a discussion on whether or not she gets overshadowed is conclusive proof that she's about as far from a Mary Sue as it gets. Characters like Corrin and Alm are Mary Sues because they overtake and overshadow everyone else and the plot itself. They bend and distort the story around themselves. A protagonist that arguably gets overshadowed is far from a Mary Sue, so I have to ask: what did you mean by "a little Mary Sue-ish"?

You misinterpreted what I said. "a little Mary Sue-ish" = She has a few of the qualities of a Mary Sue, but is not one.

7 hours ago, Father Shrimpas said:

The wild buttle hungry chaotic Ike vs. the orderly orders following Miccy.

13 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

This I'm not so sure about. Ike can be reckless, but he's rather tempered by Radiant Dawn; I would exactly call him wild or chaotic, especially not when he's standing next to Skrimir. I'd also hesitate about Micaiah being big on order and following orders.

Indeed. The Ike Shrimpas was talking about sounds like Hero's Fallen Ike, not normal Ike. Ike is a Hero. He likes fighting, yes this is true. He's not about to start fights just for the sake of it.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I don't think Radiant Dawn handled its protagonists all that well. Micaiah should have been the main focus, and instead she was mostly absent in Part 3 and totally sidelined in Part 4. Elincia should have been the deuteragonist, Sanaki the tritagonist, and Ike shouldn't have been a main focus at all.

[vanguard333]

30 minutes ago, L3xandr3 said:

You misinterpreted what I said. "a little Mary Sue-ish" = She has a few of the qualities of a Mary Sue, but is not one.

I see. Sorry about that.

Okay; which ones? 

[Shrimpica]

1 hour ago, L3xandr3 said:

Indeed. The Ike Shrimpas was talking about sounds like Hero's Fallen Ike, not normal Ike. Ike is a Hero. He likes fighting, yes this is true. He's not about to start fights just for the sake of it.

While i did exaggerate it a bit, there are moments in RD when Ike is a bit more wild than usual. Not completely chaotic, true, but a bit there.

[L3xandr3]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Okay; which ones? 

Beautiful. Check.

Talented. Check. (Skilled with Magic, unexplained ability to Sacrifice, coincidental special holy heritage)

Few or no flaws. Check. (Her blind faith in Pellias is her only real flaw)

Loved by everyone. Check. (Dawn Brigade, all of Daien)

[ping]

3 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

Beautiful. Check.

Talented. Check. (Skilled with Magic, unexplained ability to Sacrifice, coincidental special holy heritage)

Few or no flaws. Check. (Her blind faith in Pellias is her only real flaw)

Loved by everyone. Check. (Dawn Brigade, all of Daien)

So are you talking about Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Eirika, Ephraim, Ike, Kris, Chrom, Robin, Corrin, or Micaiah?

[L3xandr3]

1 hour ago, ping said:

So are you talking about Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Eirika, Ephraim, Ike, Kris, Chrom, Robin, Corrin, or Micaiah?

Going on an off-topic tangent, but yea, FE Protags are fairly same-y. What did you expect?

 

More in depth, 'cause I'm half-loopy from weariness.

• Marth - (Going off of FE12) Is basically a Gary Stu, but is also in great pain over the suffering on both sides of the war(s). He also doesn't know how to deal with his feelings (FE11's end scene with Caeda). So, not then?
• Roy - It's been to long since I played FE6 last, so no comment.
• Eliwood - Is a scrub Does make some mistakes.
• Lyn - Bland Has trauma from her past that does give her trouble.
• Eirika - Is naïve to the point of stupidity. Why did she trust Lyon? L'arachel strait up told her not to, yet she did.
• Ephraim - No excesses, he's a Gary Stu.
• Ike - He's not particularly intelligent. Not to say he's dumb, but he isn't a genius.
• Kris - Training, training, Grandpa, training, bad at directions, Marth worship, training, bad at cooking, training. And disliking Sirius, I guess.
• Chrom - He does develop, if only a little.
• Robin - Avatar worship incarnate. Also technically an Dragon God of Death and Destruction.
• Corrin - Ditto above, except swapping the 'God' part for 'My naivete is a super-power! I'm also a Demigod!'

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

8 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

Beautiful. Check.

Talented. Check. (Skilled with Magic, unexplained ability to Sacrifice, coincidental special holy heritage)

Few or no flaws. Check. (Her blind faith in Pellias is her only real flaw)

Loved by everyone. Check. (Dawn Brigade, all of Daien)

The first one isn't the mark of a Mary Sue? Basically every fictional character is attractive and that's dependent highly on the person.

Talented sure, but she's also slow and incredibly frail and loses her most important ability just in time to get her side pretty well ass-kicked in Part 3 and this is just a nitpick but her abilities are given an explanation. Also talent alone is not a mark of a Mary Sue, it's talent above everyone else's that causes plot holes.

She is loyal to Pelleas sure, but she's also willing to defend Daein at the cost of the rest of Tellius and is unable to sacrifice those closest to her. On top of that she's the type to refuse outside help when she really needs it while offering it at her own detriment or the detriment of her teammates. There you go, a few more flaws.

That one's notably false. Sure Daein loves her but they don't even account for 1/4 of the playable cast let alone the rest of the continent. Ike's entire side of the war (bar Ike himself) thinks she's a warmonger and a dangerous cult leader lunatic.

[vanguard333]

9 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

Beautiful. Check.

Talented. Check. (Skilled with Magic, unexplained ability to Sacrifice, coincidental special holy heritage)

Few or no flaws. Check. (Her blind faith in Pellias is her only real flaw)

Loved by everyone. Check. (Dawn Brigade, all of Daien)

1) That's basically every story protagonist ever outside of stuff like The Hunchback of Notre Damme. 

2) Her heritage is the reason she can heal without using tomes or staves. Plus, as @Silver-Haired Maiden pointed out, she compensates for being skilled at magic with being rather frail and not much of a fighter in a one-on-one scenario initially (the first cutscene has her hiding from and nearly get captured by two soldiers, who would've succeeded if not for Sothe). 

3) She does have another one: fear of letting people other then Sothe get too close in case they discover her brand. In fact, before Path of Radiance, that fear led her to leave Sothe to protect him, and that fear persists even after she becomes a Joan-of-Arc figure for the people of Daein and it does cause problems (like slipping away from the army to be alone and getting ambushed by Jarod). 

4) True, but she earns that love from the people of Daein as she becomes a Joan-of-Arc figure for them. It does not come out of nowhere, and Daein is far from everyone.

[NinjaMonkey]

12 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Them being pre-established would (in theory at least) make it all the more likely for them to be less involved in the plot

Which doesn't happen in reality, meaning that most of the new cast members are pointless additions to the game.