Tropes or Clichés in games that you hate?

[ciphertul]

So playing thru Star Ocean 4 has reminded me of my least 2 favorite things in RPG game. 1) The "First girl best girl" trope, I hate when RPGs have romance but the protag only can end with the 1st girl. Star Ocean 4, Star Ocean 5 and Infinite Undiscovery all suffer from this. 2) Main Healer joins late/last, when playing a RPG I generally play more slowly usually keep my healer close. But some game keep that main healer away from you for a long time such as Neptunia 3 where you only get the main healer near end of the true ending, or Star Ocean 4 getting Sarah 2/3 of the way thru the game. 

What kinds of tropes or Clichés do everyone dislike?

[Fabulously Olivier]

I don't like harem mechanics in linear story-driven games - especially ones with sequels. Looking at you, Trails of Cold Steel and your choices of many unsatisfying relationships.

 

Silent protagonists, except when lampshaded/played for laughs. Byleth is actually an example of one done with the right sense of humor... sometimes.

[DragonFlames]

I play mostly JRPGs, so these examples come from there.

One of my biggest pet-peeves in games has to be the "win in gameplay, lose in the cutscene" trope.
When you defeat a boss, only for that boss to pull something out of their butt, and suddenly your characters are the ones on the losing end, no matter how badly you trounced the boss(es) beforehand. In a similar vein, when the characters plan to capture the boss alive for interrogation or something, then the boss gets away, and your characters just stand around like morons.
Now, I used to not mind this as much, but... there is a certain game series that just LOVES to pull one of these (or even both) for damn near every boss fight, and I got sick of it, frankly. So sick in fact, that I immediately groan when it pops up in other games.

Another thing I didn't mind a lot before seeing it repeated ad nauseum for damn near every boss fight or similar moment is when a third party shows up to save the heroes from certain doom at the last second.

Both of these, when used as often as they are in Trails, don't do a lot besides completely devaluing the playable cast.
I shouldn't be sitting there thinking "okay, what Deus Ex Machina will save the heroes/the villain this time?"
A very good example would be a lategame quest in Trails of Cold Steel 3. You are tasked with catching some unruly folks, and you even get to play a sort of minigame where you have to chase them down. And no matter if you manage to catch them or not, some other idiots show up and do it for you. I was very close to dropping the game right then and there, because by that point, all the things I have listed here have happened so often that I was seriously asking myself "what is the point of me playing this, anyhow?"

[ciphertul]

3 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I play mostly JRPGs, so these examples come from there.

One of my biggest pet-peeves in games has to be the "win in gameplay, lose in the cutscene" trope.
When you defeat a boss, only for that boss to pull something out of their butt, and suddenly your characters are the ones on the losing end, no matter how badly you trounced the boss(es) beforehand. In a similar vein, when the characters plan to capture the boss alive for interrogation or something, then the boss gets away, and your characters just stand around like morons.
Now, I used to not mind this as much, but... there is a certain game series that just LOVES to pull one of these (or even both) for damn near every boss fight, and I got sick of it, frankly. So sick in fact, that I immediately groan when it pops up in other games.

Another thing I didn't mind a lot before seeing it repeated ad nauseum for damn near every boss fight or similar moment is when a third party shows up to save the heroes from certain doom at the last second.

Both of these, when used as often as they are in Trails, don't do a lot besides completely devaluing the playable cast.
I shouldn't be sitting there thinking "okay, what Deus Ex Machina will save the heroes/the villain this time?"
A very good example would be a lategame quest in Trails of Cold Steel 3. You are tasked with catching some unruly folks, and you even get to play a sort of minigame where you have to chase them down. And no matter if you manage to catch them or not, some other idiots show up and do it for you. I was very close to dropping the game right then and there, because by that point, all the things I have listed here have happened so often that I was seriously asking myself "what is the point of me playing this, anyhow?"

I forgot the I wasn't even trying now you lose cutscene bull, that would be one for me too.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ciphertul

[Samz707]

Blatant Plot-armor, where the player character/others magically survive injuries that should slow them down (or even depending on the game, injuries that would kill them in gameplay) because it's a cutscene, I'm okay if it's somewhat I guess reasonable. (falling in the water kills you in Halo games since there's no swimming/off cliffs out of bounds but Chief can survive these in cutscenes.)

Cutscene-teleportation, I really don't like it when somehow characters get the drop out of each other so blatantly from nowhere you'd think Warp-staves existed, a pretty bad example exists in Tomb Raider 2013, you move through a highly narrow mountain path with very large bits of mountain on your left and right, so  you go through this narrow "V" Shapped path until  you reach a bridge and suddenly there's a cutscene that ends with you getting knocked out from dude suddenly appearing from behind you, despite you having just moved through a narrow mountain where there was blatantly nowhere for them to hide and wait, there's also a terrible example of this in Rise of the Tomb Raider, Lara's behind a building, she checks the right corner, she then walks 2 steps to check the left corner, turns around and suddenly there's a guy who in literally a second, ninja-ran around the corner and raised his rifle to knock Lara out, all without making a sound, in under 2 seconds, it feels incredibly lazy whenever a game does anything like this. (At least FE actually has in-universe teleportation magic.)

 

 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

That character that apparently has to be present in every RPG that wants to threaten you like you can't rip them limb from limb and scatter their remains across town. This is not applicable to big story villains, it's always either an ally or a nobody NPC that's around for like 5 seconds and this is one of the areas where I prefer a game like Fallout because you can shoot these people in the face! Please games follow this example and only include those characters when I can beat the snot out of them, thank you!

[Shrimpica]

Mind controlled final boss by an evil being of doom or something

Looking it you, almost all FE

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Some random avatars and wannabe protagonists who just are made for shipping like in Fire Emblem 13 and 14.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Kasumi Yoshizawa

[omegaxis1]

52 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

That character that apparently has to be present in every RPG that wants to threaten you like you can't rip them limb from limb and scatter their remains across town. This is not applicable to big story villains, it's always either an ally or a nobody NPC that's around for like 5 seconds and this is one of the areas where I prefer a game like Fallout because you can shoot these people in the face! Please games follow this example and only include those characters when I can beat the snot out of them, thank you!

Right. XD

Quote

Hubert: If you pose a threat...I shall have to dispose of you.

-

Sylvain: I kind of hate you for that... You were a spoiled brat who should pay for that Crest. Maybe I'll collect the debt.

-

Dimitri: If you insist that you cannot...then I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones.

Byleth: So how many detentions do you want? Or perhaps a more disciplinary action with the business end of the Sword of the Creator? Your choice.

[vanguard333]

Is this tropes specific to video games, or just tropes/cliches you dislike that can appear in games but can also appear in other media?

If the former:

• Multiplayer-focused games where the story says your character is a unique chosen one. How do the story writers not see the inherent contradiction?! "I need you to slay the monster at the end of the dungeon! Only you can do it!" "Yes, just me... and three other guys running around". I get it; writing a story for a game that has to factor in multiplayer is more difficult than for a single-player game, but making the protagonist a unique chosen one should be an obvious example of what not to do. 
• When defeated bosses are able to monologue without a story-justification. My character was just hacking this guy to pieces; why am I now having to just stand there while he rambles on?

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I play mostly JRPGs, so these examples come from there.

One of my biggest pet-peeves in games has to be the "win in gameplay, lose in the cutscene" trope.
When you defeat a boss, only for that boss to pull something out of their butt, and suddenly your characters are the ones on the losing end, no matter how badly you trounced the boss(es) beforehand. In a similar vein, when the characters plan to capture the boss alive for interrogation or something, then the boss gets away, and your characters just stand around like morons.
Now, I used to not mind this as much, but... there is a certain game series that just LOVES to pull one of these (or even both) for damn near every boss fight, and I got sick of it, frankly. So sick in fact, that I immediately groan when it pops up in other games.

Just wondering: what if there's an in-story justification, like the villain was losing because they were just toying with the player character and the fight ends with them saying something like, "Well, I've had my fun; now to take this seriously"? 

[ciphertul]

5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Just wondering: what if there's an in-story justification, like the villain was losing because they were just toying with the player character and the fight ends with them saying something like, "Well, I've had my fun; now to take this seriously"? 

It's all how it's presented, like a certain game where you fight like 3 bosses in a row and beat them in combat just to need someone else to drop in and save your ass

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Right. XD

Byleth: So how many detentions do you want? Or perhaps a more disciplinary action with the business end of the Sword of the Creator? Your choice.

Look, you don't even know how bad those quotes pissed me off man! xD I was sitting there going "Bitch try me! I will create a whole ass gun just to shoot you with!" I don't know why that cliche pisses me off so badly but it really does!

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Look, you don't even know how bad those quotes pissed me off man! xD I was sitting there going "Bitch try me! I will create a whole ass gun just to shoot you with!" I don't know why that cliche pisses me off so badly but it really does!

I get you. Like, why the hell is a guy threatening me my ally? Why do I gotta put up with their shit?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Eh, if the story is getting annoying, I'll just skip it. You can't skip gameplay cliches though. Like your main character being forced into your party in an RPG, which cuts down on party variety. Especially in three person parties like Legend of Dragoon, FF7, Mario + Rabbids. I also don't like when I beat the bad guy but he just activates his plot armor to escape or turn the tables in a cutscene so that you have to fight him again later. If the point of these characters is to get us to say "ugh, this guy again?" Then I guess mission accomplished. Most of the time they just end up joining your party and I just welcome them to the bench. Illusion of choice moments also bug me. I've always just accepted that JRPGs lack roleplaying on principle (it's the core of the 'But Thou Must!' moments in Dragon Quest), but when they wave the possibility in front of your face and the choice makes no impact it's just annoying. Also, just, school RPGs. I hate when the entire game takes place in one location and the connections to the school are just aesthetic. This is actually what initially drew me into Persona 3, because managing school and keeping your guy from burning out is something reflected in gameplay, rather than just being a backdrop for story sequences. Three Houses also kind of gets it right until you slowly realize you're here at the school forever and your students are now adults just humoring this psycopath that is your character.

I feel like I've just scratched the surface and have only picked on JRPGs. Okay, Western RPGs. I don't like main quest/side quest story segregation. It always feels like the player is being rushed to the finish since the main story has so much of a sense of urgency. And some games like Mass Effect 2, Fallout 1, really will penalize the player for getting distracted by a tantalizing side quest. But side quests are typically joke hubs or avenues to just sort of forget everything and have fun. I'll never understand the in universe reasons why the main characters waste their time with them when they have real responsibilities. These moments in games should really acknowledge the frivolity more often, or be more transparent to the player that it's okay to be doing this nonsense. I guess JRPGs don't run into this very often because there's no sense of urgency. Or maybe the stakes haven't been set because we're only getting glimpses of the main antagonist until we've meandered to his front door. Oh, there I go again. I'll just stop.

[Yexin]

there's no trope or cliché that i find really annoying in videogames: if a trope is well executed, then i'm all for it

this said, i generally don't like games where i'm supposed to relate to a blank slate avatar who's also the super duper chosen one of god knows what supernatural being or force, who is also loved by everyone who's around him/her (corrin, byleth and the likes)

there are exceptions of course, dragon quest games being some of them

[Samz707]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:15 PM, DragonFlames said:

I play mostly JRPGs, so these examples come from there.

One of my biggest pet-peeves in games has to be the "win in gameplay, lose in the cutscene" trope.
When you defeat a boss, only for that boss to pull something out of their butt, and suddenly your characters are the ones on the losing end, no matter how badly you trounced the boss(es) beforehand. In a similar vein, when the characters plan to capture the boss alive for interrogation or something, then the boss gets away, and your characters just stand around like morons.
Now, I used to not mind this as much, but... there is a certain game series that just LOVES to pull one of these (or even both) for damn near every boss fight, and I got sick of it, frankly. So sick in fact, that I immediately groan when it pops up in other games.

Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of this, I can somewhat tolerate it when it's reasonable (like say backup arrives and it's actually a situation where the player would probably die in gameplay.)

Honestly inaccurate cutscenes to gameplay really annoy me.

I guess for my most recent Example, Emmeryn's death scene in Awakening, before the cutscene, we're surrounded by archers and unable to move but then the cutscene kicks in and Chrom is running towards Emmeryn and I guess all those archers just vanished? but then when the cutscene ends Chrom is right back where he was before he started running and the archers are back.

[DragonFlames]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:11 PM, vanguard333 said:

Just wondering: what if there's an in-story justification, like the villain was losing because they were just toying with the player character and the fight ends with them saying something like, "Well, I've had my fun; now to take this seriously"? 

If it's done like once in a story I don't mind it too much, even if I do think this "This wasn't my TRUE POWER!" stuff is kind of overused by now, and thus feels like a cop-out.
Especially so when you very clearly win the boss fight, and worse still when the boss fight is easy as hell. Because in that latter case especially, I'm just gonna think "yeah, you're full of crap. Shut up."
To me, if you want to hype up a villain is strong in gameplay as well as in-story, there are much better ways to go about it: you do a certain amount of (minimal) damage and then the next cutscene plays, or you simply can't damage them at all and the boss fight ends after a few rounds of combat, or you can damage them and they simply destroy you with no effort, but losing doesn't give you a game over.

Like everything, I feel like it can work when used in moderation.
I mainly take issue with it when it is used so much that every victory feels hollow, and/or you start thinking to yourself "why should I even try to win this when the next cutscene will tell me I didn't?"

[Etrurian emperor]

The obvious betrayal. Games have developed the bad habit of making'' shocking'' betrayals far too easy to predict and the fact that its such a common trope just ensures the audience goes in expecting the plot important mentor to betray them. The most interesting take on this was the original Xenoblade where the traitor might have actually been a really surprising twist if the game hadn't made him mumble to himself suspiciously whenever the main characters weren't paying attention to him. 

I've started to lose my patience a bit regarding revenge stories. They are overdone and the main characters that passionately fight for revenge are often the least likable character imaginable. And the revenge quests is so often just not allowed to end. If they avenged their loved ones there's suddenly a new villain to take revenge against in the next game. On the flip side trying to subvert the typical revenge plot by going ''revenge is bad m'kay'' is only barely less cliche these days. 

[Ottservia]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I've started to lose my patience a bit regarding revenge stories. They are overdone and the main characters that passionately fight for revenge are often the least likable character imaginable. And the revenge quests is so often just not allowed to end. If they avenged their loved ones there's suddenly a new villain to take revenge against in the next game. On the flip side trying to subvert the typical revenge plot by going ''revenge is bad m'kay'' is only barely less cliche these days. 

This just sounds like Sasuke with extra steps. Still the best character in Naruto though.

as to stay on topic though, I personally don’t really have a trope I necessarily dislike. I’m of the opinion that any trope can be good if executed properly. If it works it works. That’s all I’ll say on that. Though if I had to choose one I just don’t like backtracking in games for like no reason. Thankfully it’s not so common nowadays but when it does show up for like a puzzle or something I get real annoyed.

[Etrurian emperor]

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

This just sounds like Sasuke with extra steps. Still the best character in Naruto though.

I was actually more thinking of Kratos and Scorpion. 

Sasuke didn't need additional revenge, his target just changed because he had the wrong one. But Kratos and Scorpion got their revenge against the actual culprit and then the next game decided to have some other characters slight them which then supposedly justified extreme retribution. 

[omegaxis1]

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I was actually more thinking of Kratos and Scorpion. 

Sasuke didn't need additional revenge, his target just changed because he had the wrong one. But Kratos and Scorpion got their revenge against the actual culprit and then the next game decided to have some other characters slight them which then supposedly justified extreme retribution. 

Didn't we have a Mortal Kombat movie recently with Scorpion trying to get revenge?

Spoiler

He first thought it was Sub-Zero, but then learned it was Quan Chi? 

 

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Didn't we have a Mortal Kombat movie recently with Scorpion trying to get revenge?

  Reveal hidden contents

He first thought it was Sub-Zero, but then learned it was Quan Chi? 

 

Yeah and once Scorpion actually gets his revenge the next game has him throwing a hissy fit against the Elder Gods instead. Same motivation, different target. 

The new timeline actually deals with it in the most interesting way by eventually presenting us with a Scorpion that's at peace with what happened. 

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The obvious betrayal. Games have developed the bad habit of making'' shocking'' betrayals far too easy to predict and the fact that its such a common trope just ensures the audience goes in expecting the plot important mentor to betray them. The most interesting take on this was the original Xenoblade where the traitor might have actually been a really surprising twist if the game hadn't made him mumble to himself suspiciously whenever the main characters weren't paying attention to him. 

Yeah; this can be annoying. Funny enough, Xenoblade X also had an obvious betrayal, but I think it managed to avoid most of the obvious problems by having the story emphasize "why" rather than "who", if that makes sense.

[omegaxis1]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The obvious betrayal. Games have developed the bad habit of making'' shocking'' betrayals far too easy to predict and the fact that its such a common trope just ensures the audience goes in expecting the plot important mentor to betray them. The most interesting take on this was the original Xenoblade where the traitor might have actually been a really surprising twist if the game hadn't made him mumble to himself suspiciously whenever the main characters weren't paying attention to him. 

To be honest, even then you don't really get it since we've been going on about what seemed to be a general good vs. evil story at first. It's only when it happens that you really get what's happening. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 12/14/2020 at 9:15 AM, DragonFlames said:

One of my biggest pet-peeves in games has to be the "win in gameplay, lose in the cutscene" trope.
When you defeat a boss, only for that boss to pull something out of their butt, and suddenly your characters are the ones on the losing end, no matter how badly you trounced the boss(es) beforehand. In a similar vein, when the characters plan to capture the boss alive for interrogation or something, then the boss gets away, and your characters just stand around like morons.

I've a feeling you'd grin ear to ear at this one game I remember. You drop the final boss's HP to 0, they're like "I don't like this." and begins rapidly regenerating HP. Then, the main character dashes in and they go "Oh yeah? Not happening." and uses a truncated version of their ultimate attack, interrupting the final boss's healing and dealing 9999 damage on every single hit. 

The hero didn't even do anything unusual, it wasn't like they pulled off some Soul Sacrifice Forbidden Phoenix Infernal Glacier Sacrifice Strike. It was pure oneupmanship.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer